YES. Sex education is VERY appropriate in kindergarten!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

I am an elementary school teacher. I know more than a few 5 year olds who have been victims of sexual abuse.

Kindergarteners are taught about good touches and bad touches. They learn to respect each others personal space. That is a big deal in kindergarten. They learn how to talk to another person without hitting them or pushing them. They learn it's not okay to bite each other. Many of these 5 year olds have never been in school before and haven't spent much time with kids their age. They come from all different kinds of homes with varying degrees of parenting. Some have not really been parented at all. More than you know have already been abused.

Some have been taught that it is okay to engage in sexual behavior.

Don't fall for the hype. Obama was correct. I can't believe the big deal they are making out of this. Sheesh.

[evlbstrd]

1. It's not OK to bite?!

Crap.

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Only for adults

:)

[evlbstrd]

3. That's a relief.

But you're saying I can't bit five-year-olds?

[bleedingheart]

5. only if they won't give you back your fire engine or barbie

[evlbstrd]

14. Those are spitting and stabbing offenses.

Biting is a sign of affection.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. You can do anything you want, evl

Just remember, I am a mandated reporter :)

[evlbstrd]

15. Which newspaper?

[MuseRider]

9. They don't taste very good

at that age. They are not done yet. You have to wait until they are at least 7 but 10 is preferable.

Back to topic. I agree, they need to learn as they grow about sex as well as everything else.

[evlbstrd]

16. So, it's not like veal?

[MuseRider]

68. Nope

they struggle too much when you put them in those little cages. Tough little tykes they are. In a few years once they start with the TV and video games they soften up a lot.

[evlbstrd]

80. Then Mark Twain had it right.

Raise them in barrels from the get-go.

[MuseRider]

85. !

:P

[evlbstrd]

86. Have I said too much?

[MuseRider]

106. Never! n/t

[displacedtexan]

7. I love you.

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. Don't encourage him

He's evl enough. :evilgrin:

[evlbstrd]

13. *blush*

Want a bite?

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. No you are too evl for me.

[bleedingheart]

4. the adults who don't want to children to learn...I wonder if they aren't the

same adults who want to keep kids innocent so they can prey upon them...

[zabet]

10. Probably.

I know this is an awful way to look at it but, I think repukes are
against abortion because they hate to lose a potential victim.

[glowing]

6. I wouldn't have called it sex education.... Most people think sex, sex

I think we had it called Personal Safety and Appropriate behavior... He needs to modify his definition.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. But it IS called sex education

Why should he change our vocabulary?

[glowing]

25. Are you serious? As a parent I would object to that title... When I was

in school, it was appropriate behavior, we also learned what to do in case of emergency or fires. These were all part of same program... Maybe change the other version to intercourse education. I wouldn't even say sex in front of a 5 year old... I don't even kiss my own husband, but on the cheek, when my 2 yr old is around. I don't want him mimicking us somewhere else. I also wouldn't want my child going to his grandma and saying "Grandma, I learned about sex today"... I wish sometimes when we label things as adults, we'd have our heads out of our asses.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. Oh good grief we don't call it sex at school!!

But that's what it is called in many curriculums. Obama was using the correct adult terminology. I doubt many 5 year olds are following his campaign.

[glowing]

36. Excuse me, its been a long time since I was 5 yrs old and these

days, private school or home tutoring are looking better and better to me.

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. Because of sex ed?

Good grief. Get a grip.

[glowing]

49. No, there is a NCLB... that leaves children behind. With a family full of

teachers, I have respect for real education. Myself, I am a scientist... and I care about real thought rather than black and white and a,b,c,d... Also, I'm afraid he will be labled ADD... And I refuse to medicate him just to appease the school.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. What does any of that have to do with the OP?

Sounds like you have some issues. Sorry bout that but we are talking about sex ed in kdg, not ADD and not NCLB. But I doubt you will find a teacher here on DU that likes NCLB.

[glowing]

59. I took a bird walk... went on a tangent... had nothing to do with sex

ed.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

82. You're a scientist?

[Igel]

62. It apparently has a number of definitions.

Since we don't have a royal academy to dictate what good usage and allowable definitions are, it makes for complications, doesn't it?

Now, one issue is whether one takes a term from the professional jargon or accommodates the listener.

One minister I knew used words that a lot of people didn't understand. His response: Let them buy a dictionary, I preach and it's up to them to understand what I'm saying. He was similar to technocrats in many ways--"we know what the *true* meaning of a word is, and let others come up to our exalted level". Needless to say, a fair number of people didn't much like him.

Obama would fit right in with that minister.

For my part--and, I suspect, a majority of American English speakers--sex ed is teaching kids about sex, not teaching kids how to avoid unwanted sex. You can redefine it, but I demand a way to distinguish between the two kinds of instruction and subject matter. Perhaps you or Obama can provide it to keep from being confusing?

[Bjornsdotter]

60. You've gotta be kidding

..you don't even kiss your husband on the cheek in front of your child? :eyes:

Talk about repressed...

As a high school teacher it sounds as if your child is the target child for this type of instruction, as he/she will not be receiving it at home.

Cheers

[MissB]

75. You don't kiss your husband in front of your kid?

Um, whatcha trying to accomplish, really? It would be far more effective to teach your child what people do in certain relationships. Mothers and fathers kiss on the lips. Grandmothers and grandchildren hug and kiss on the cheek. Kids hug their friends.

I simply don't get it.

[Madspirit]

81. You Don't Kiss Your Husband?!?!

You don't kiss your husband on the lips in front of your two year old?! You need some counselling...stat!
Lee

[TahitiNut]

83. (Cough) Uhmmm .. I guess it's a matter of where you kiss your husband.

... or where he's kissing you. :evilgrin:


:rofl:

[WindRavenX]

116. "I wouldn't even say sex in front of a 5 year old"

People who think like you frankly terrify me :scared:

[KurtNYC]

19. it wouldn't matter, the MSM would still put the most outrageous spin on it

possible.

[Clark2008]

53. That's what I was thinking.

For one thing, sexual abuse isn't sexual, despite the "sexual" in the name. It's about power and violence - there's nothing sexy or sexual about it.

I would call it defense training, not sex education. I do think "sex" education for kindergarten children is a bit young, but I agree with what the OP said about teaching them good from bad touches and how to recognize when they are being abused.

[lonestarnot]

17. Reminds me of when my kid was in kindergarten. Teacher told

me a story of how sweet he was when at recess, he helped the other kids put on their coats. Ahhhhhh.

[LWolf]

20. Children who

have suffered abuse and neglect often don't have boundaries, and engage in what we would consider age-inappropriate behavior. Five yos who have been abused, or been present during sexual behavior or while porn was played on the VCR include what they've been exposed to in their "play" and social activities.

They already know about sex. They know about the words, they know about the act, and trying to return them to innocence by pretending their awareness doesn't exist is futile.

We don't deny kindergarten to those children. We DO spend time on socialization skills, which includes managing sexual behavior. We are sexual beings from birth, and it isn't practical to try to deny that or to separate all the things that add up to sexuality from the rest of the personality, imo. "Sex" isn't just intercourse. It permeates our culture in so many other ways.

Frankly, I wish kindergarten could be more about socialization and self-management, including managing sexual behaviors, and less about academics. :shrug:

[JerseygirlCT]

21. Totally agree with you! nt

[robcon]

22. NO, it's not right.

The school system does not replace the parents.

Sex education, as part of scientific study of the body and biology, is totally appropriate for teenagers.

BUT NOT FOR KINDERGARTNERS!

The state, in the form of the school system, has no right to supplant parents on this topic at that age. It should never be part of the kindergarten curriculum.

[Jed Dilligan]

24. Fine and dandy

if you're living in some bygone age when most kids had actual, functioning parents.

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. LOL Great point

[Madspirit]

87. Thank-you Jed!

I don't know what century some of these folks were raised in but I sure worry for their little poorly taught children.
Lee

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. Did you even read the OP?

If you did, then you need help with comprehension. And you have come to the right place. But I am a certified teacher and my rates are kinda high. :)

[helderheid]

31. By the time I entered school, I had already been abused. Having this education is vital.

[bcoylepa]

37. begins at birth

having been a sexuality educator for many years - I know that kids need to understand their bodies and how they work and how to take care of them
they also need a language to use in case something is wrong
Obama is right - start early and build on it - its the only way to raise a healthy happy child

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. You are absolutely correct

Thanks!

[Exiled in America]

38. Do people around here ever read?

Did you even read the original post before replying??

You'll noticed that she described exactly what the "sex" education entails in kindergarten, and that it wasn't referred to in front of 5 year olds as "sex" education, but it did include teaching about good and bad touching, boundaries, etc. etc. The OP also pointed out that many of the kids have never been to school before, and some of them have been abused, some have been taught that its ok to engage in sexual behavior.

Sex and sexuality is not a taboo subject. Sexuality can and should be talked about and taught about in AGE APPROPRIATE WAYS. There is an age appropriate way to teach certain things at 5. And it isn't something to be merely "left to the parents" any more than math or science is.

No one is talking about a kindergarten teach explaining how people have sexual intercourse, or breaking out a slide show of a woman's vagina. :P What we are talking about, is age appropriate teaching about social interactions, boundaries, and inter-personal skills. And if you think that's not part of the job description of a kindergarten teacher, then you are dramatically ignorant of the realities of working with five year olds.

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. Some don't

And they are the very ones who think their kids are better off being home-schooled or in some freaky religious school. Yet THEIR kids need a professional to educate them more than most other kids.

[Iris]

56. teenagers? I can remember standing in the lunch line in 4th grade talking about what

a lesbian is. And other things....

[TahitiNut]

64. Parenting in the US is abominable.

I can't begin to count the number of "parents" who tell their young kids they don't have the 'right' to refuse a hug or refuse to hug an adult.

It appalls me ... even if I'm the adult they're told to hug.

I've "offended" more than one 'parent' by telling their child that they NEVER have to hug an adult if they don't want to. I make a point of talking to the kid JUST LIKE THEY'RE REALLY A HUMAN BEING. (It's probably no accident that kids usually like me. I like them.)

For Gawd's sake! NEVER tell your kid they have to touch or be touched by an adult, no matter WHO that adult is, if they don't want to. I can't think of a worse way to raise kids ... they not only lose any sense of ownership of their own physical/sexual boundaries, they often wind up associating healthy affection with a violation of their rights.

Hugs are wonderful!! We need 'em. But we must ALWAYS be secure in our own physical boundaries.

[Katherine Brengle]

72. Right? I make a point not to *demand* affection from my 3 year old, even

though sometimes I really wish she would give me a big old hug and she doesn't want to - so be it.

It seems like no big deal, but teaching a child to give away his/her power is so potentially damaging.

[TahitiNut]

76. Kudos. I do think it's a big deal.

Kids know what's "creepy" ... know when it's a "needy" hug ... know when it's a "happy" hug ... know when it's a "yucky" hug.

My grandmother gave me the World's Greatest Hugs - all-enveloping and unconditional. I knew the difference ... and I sure knew when it felt like I was being USED.

There's almost nothing like the feeling of having a young kid run across the room when first seeing me and throwing that big ol' hug-around-the-neck at me. Keep those crumby ol' ticker-tape parades and pResidential medals - I KNOW what a REAL honor is. It's more than a mere pet peeve of mine that some kids feel FORCED to do that - it's right up there with child abuse.

[Madspirit]

88. Wonderful Post Tahiti!...n/t

[sandnsea]

84. What if the parent is the molester???

Explain your thought process because I really don't get how you just omit that bit of information when drawing your conclusion.

[Madspirit]

89. Exactly!

They NEED someone trustworthy, outside the family, just in case. Thanks for making the point. In fact, MOST sexual abusers of children ARE family members.
Lee

[hisownpetard]

23. Thank you for this enlightening post.

It makes it so clear.

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. You are most welcome

[marmar]

28. Thank you.....

The Puritanical silliness that runs rampant in this country is just embarassing.

[Forkboy]

29. I think it's a great idea.

First thing Obama has said that actually impresses me.And naturally he'll get slammed over it. :)

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. Yes I liked it too and I am not a big Obama fan.

[helderheid]

30. totally agree

[BulletproofLandshark]

34. Sex Education Begins On Your Wedding Night!

At least according to ignorant religious conservatives.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. And apparently a few posters here

:eyes:

[acmavm]

48. So any parent who doesn't think that its the schools business to

teach kids about sex is what? A bad parent? Abusing their child? What?

From the rude tone of your answers to posters, apparently you think the schools are better equipped and better prepared to teach something this personal to children rather than parents. Are we too stupid to talk to our kids. Does it require some magic piece of paper that you hang on the wall that determines whether or not you're fit to deal with this subject with your own child?

[helderheid]

52. It's biology - doesn't that belong in school?

[acmavm]

54. That's cute.

[helderheid]

61. It is?

:shrug:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

55. Well... maybe not a bad parent.

How about immature? Prudish? Antiquated?

See, the thing about parenting is, you're supposed to be more mature than your kid.

[acmavm]

57. Immature? Prudish? Antiquated? Your post is a crock.

Parenting is about taking care of your family, judging what information and how much your kids need as they grow, what they are emotionally equipped to understand and deal with as they age. Making sure that they understand right and wrong, good and bad, safe and harmful.

Teachers need to take care of A, B, C. I'll do my job.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

58. Heh.

"Parenting is about taking care of your family"

I agree with that part.

[acmavm]

97. See, that's why you take care of your kids and give them the information

necessary to try to make it safely through the day, through their lives.

That is why you do not hand that responsibility over to some stranger who thinks they're so much smarter and better equipped to deal with the little darlings. To post here (or anywhere) that parents need to let the public school system provide classes on sexuality because none of us are equipped to deal with the subject demonstrates some severely twisted and arrogant thinking anyway.

[proud2BlibKansan]

63. Probably hiding something

What do you wanna bet this guy didn't want his kids to learn about sex ed in kindergarten?

http://www.kansascity.com/105/story/195893.html

[acmavm]

65. You're really reaching there. Some people are just perverted

and rotten and no amount of 'teaching' is going to prevent them from victimizing anyone.

[gollygee]

66. It's about teaching the kids, not the adult

do you have some kind of reading comprehension problems? Obviously teaching the adult in that story wouldn't stop him from victimizing those girls. But teaching the girls that it was wrong and they have rights over their bodies and what to do if those rights are violated certainly could have ended that abuse.

[acmavm]

90. Do you have some kind of mental block? I never said to teach an

adult anything.

[proud2BlibKansan]

67. Oh so we just let the kids be abused?

Sounds like a great plan :sarcasm:

[acmavm]

96. This guy is a rat bastard all right. So you equate all parents with this guy?

Nice.

[MissB]

73. You might want to read the OP before you go off on a weird rant.

Just a polite suggestion, as you seem to be equating "sex education" to "sex".

[Madspirit]

91. Yes, I think that

I absolutely think the schools are better able to teach this than the parents. "Don't" is not sex ed. ...and a lot of people are far too stupid to teach their children. ...and since the MAJORITY of sexual abusers of children ARE family, it's nice if they have a trusted outlet to talk to.

Lastly, if you don't have reading comprehension skills how will you teach sex ed.? The OP said "age appropriate"...safe touching, etc. She did not say supply the kindergarten with Hustler magazine.

This is about the safety of children, the education of children, what's best for the children...not about some parent's fucking ego.

Lee

[acmavm]

95. No, its about the arrogance and gall to say that teacher's are the best

equipped to teach kids, that they're parents are unfit and incompetent. I've known some teachers that made me shake my head wondering how they didn't hang themselves tying their tennies.

It's not about what's best for the children. It's about authority and the intrusiion into family matters. About people who need to stick to what they're being paid to teach.

[Madspirit]

107. You don't own your children

I think the government should intervene more actually, when it comes to kids. Maybe so many wouldn't end up so fucked up. What about..."the primary abuser of children is their parents" don't you get?

I have great pity for your little chattel.

Lee

[acmavm]

118. I most certainly don't own my kids, just like my parents didn't own

me. But the hell if the government needs to be raising my kids.

That stupid remark alone shows me that some people will say the most outlandish shit just to have something to say.

[Madspirit]

120. ...and some people

It's not outlandish. You act like no one has a right to intervene regardless of how badly you raise your children. I contend someone does have a right to intervene and that teaching kids about sex IS the school's business.

Who would say anything to just see their print on a page? You, with your puffed up overreaction. The OP was JUST talking about the school teaching little bitty kids about proper touching...not about crackers in bed and foreplay but you, like most RWers, acted like it is some big deal outrageous thing the school wants to teach.

Lee

[acmavm]

122. Oh whatever. I have as much (or as little) respect for your opinon as you

do mine. You call me a rightwinger? Which one of us wants the government in our private lives? It ain't me.

[Madspirit]

124. At least we're clear on the "respect" part

I have less than none for your opinion. I actually think it's sick, fucked up and disturbed.

...and maybe you're confused. In matters like this, liberals have always been pro-government. Maybe you're confusing "liberal" with "libertarian". They aren't even close to being the same.
Lee

[acmavm]

126. That's pretty much what I think about you and your opinion. I just didn't

want to be vulgar about it. Thanks.

[sandnsea]

92. So keep your kid out of the class

Problem solved. I don't think you're too stupid to figure that out.

[acmavm]

93. BELIEVE ME, I would.

[sandnsea]

94. So what's your problem?

Everybody else has to change in order to accommodate your sexual fears?

[acmavm]

99. Because these people aren't talking about being able to 'opt' out.

[sandnsea]

100. Oh bullshit, they're ALWAYS opt out

How old are your kids anyway?

[acmavm]

103. Do you see anything coming from any of this shit that says that?

My kids are all adults except one. He's 14.

[sandnsea]

104. I know that from raising my kids

What have they been doing wherever the hell you're at? Nothing??

[blogslut]

41. What did Obama say?

I mean, I uderstand from your OP he suggested this but I have not read about this. And I certainly haven't heard about the controversy over it. Got any linkage for a lazy old woman?

[Connie_Corleone]

45. He was talking about teaching kindergarteners about inappropriate touching.

He wasn't talking about the type of sex education that's taught in junior high.

See my post below.

[proud2BlibKansan]

46. From one lazy ole woman to another:

Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., told Planned Parenthood Tuesday that sex education for kindergarteners, as long as it is "age-appropriate," is "the right thing to do."
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2007/07/obamas_radical_ideas_on_sex_ed.html

[blogslut]

50. cool

thanks :)

[Connie_Corleone]

43. Obama's response to ABC News misleading headline

(This is from CBN but the article is fair)

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/198169.aspx

Here's what Obama campaign spokeswoman Jen Psaki is telling The Brody File this morning:

"Barack Obama supports sensible, community-driven education for children because, among other things, he believes it could help protect them from pedophiles. A child's knowledge of the difference between appropriate and inappropriate touching is crucial to keeping them safe from predators."

So, at this point at least, what Obama is referring to is teaching five year olds about inappropriate touching. The Obama campaign also tells The Brody File that parents would be able to opt out. As for further details, the touching aspect seems to be the main idea here. Obama doesn't want to hand out condoms to five year olds. He doesn't want cucumber demonstrations as part of show and tell. The legitimate reasonable discussion here is whether the federal government and/or local school boards should get involved in providing these five year olds information about inappropriate touching or should it be left up to families only.

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. I am not a principal but if I was

I would be kinda concerned about the kids whose parents opt them out.

Just sayin . . .

[Withywindle]

70. Yup.

It's the ones that have this irrational phobia about kids discussing "private parts." And the ones that are OBSESSED with "keeping it in the family." And the ones who believe in some kind of mythical "state of innocence" that will be destroyed if kids learn the words "penis" and "vagina" and learn to say "no" when someone tries to touch.

Those are the ones whose kids might need the help the most.

[orleans]

69. i think this is great that teachers/schools can and will talk to kids

about these issues.

(after reading the posts here i think the school system needs to rename this program so people don't misunderstand what is being taught)

my daughter's best friend informed us -- when she was a junior in high school -- that her father had been molesting her since she was in first grade. we never knew! and when i got dcfs and the cops involved she would not tell them.

maybe if we had some type of program like this when they were little it might have made a difference--maybe she would have been more willing to tell someone sooner, or talk to a teacher.

another instance with three kids who are in foster care now. for parental negligence. but their father was raping all three of them for years also. only one of the children will tell the story to social workers (although there is medical evidence of abuse, the county won't bring charges against the father because we live in fucking shangri-la don't ya know--and incest is but an abstract concept and not a reality!)

maybe some early school program would also have been helpful to these kids as well. i'm sure it would be.

[Katherine Brengle]

71. Amen - kids need to know enough to protect themselves --

and that starts a lot younger than most of us want to believe.

My best friend was sexually abused by her father all throughout her childhood and never learned how to put it into words until it was far too late to prosecute much less avoid it. Too many kids suffer because they don't learn enough soon enough.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

74. I'm a baby boomer.

Nobody I know, including myself, had parents that told us ANYTHING about sex. I asked a question about why some chicken eggs hatch and some don't, when Mom was cooking eggs. She said "They just do". I knew that was a lie, so after that I never asked her anything because I knew I would not get the truth.

I was four years old when that happened.

Then in fourth grade they showed us the movie about menstruating just to keep us from leaving bloody trails in the school halls, but they certainly never told us anything about boys, male anatomy, how women get pregnant, or what the man's role is. I grew up knowing nothing about male anatomy until I was almost in college. I had no brothers and my father was quite modest.
I saw pictures in books of a fetus in a uterus, but they wouldn't tell us how it got there.

The school didn't tell us about inappropriate touching either. I remember seeing some movie about not getting in a car with strangers, and that was about it.

The school and the parents both let us down. And I had college educated parents. You just didn't talk about sex in the fifties, or the sixties, or the seventies. There was a conspiracy of silence to keep factual information from kids about sex and related issues.

[MissB]

77. Thank goodness it is completely different now.

Openness is probably difficult for people in my parent's generation. But it is so important.

[proud2BlibKansan]

78. We saw a cartoon in 4th grade

"Minnie Mouse Gets Her Period"

[in_cog_ni_to]

79. My son had sex ed in Kindergarten. A notice was sent home to the parents and they had the OPTION

of letting their child attend the class or not.

It was very basic stuff, like what you posted above....Good touches/bad touches. Who to talk to, who to trust, who not to trust.

Obama is SPOT ON! and THIS IS NOTHING NEW!!!!!! sheesh!

[SayWhatYo]

98. I don't understand the controversy here.

Why would anyone be against kids learning about "bad touch/good touch"? I mean, they say it's the duty of the parent, but if the parent is abusing the kid then I doubt they will teach them that, aye?

[sandnsea]

101. Republicans are liars

and tell their rightwingnutsos that Democrats want to teach 5 year olds how to masturbate and grow up and kill babies. :crazy: I am sooo sick of living with stoooopid people.

[SayWhatYo]

102. Well I was referring to the folks here at DU.

Obviously many of the republicans will have issues with this for a couple reasons.

A) A good portion are religious nuts with no common sense. *edit*(I'm not saying all religious people are like that. Some of my best friends are religious. hehehe But seriously, I know there are some who are not bad)
B) Those who do not fit into A), are going to be against it because it was suggested by a democrat.


I'm more confused about those who consider themselves democrats or independent middle of the road types.

[sandnsea]

105. I would suggest

that there are a handful of people on DU who fit squarely in category a. IMO, which could most certainly be wrong.

Or. There could be some anti-Obama people, although I haven't seen any evidence of that yet.

Which leads me back to category a because I can't see any other reason to object to sexual abuse education.

[Madspirit]

125. Read upthread

We even have some really weird responses from the uptight and repressed, right on this thread. They think "don't" is adequate sex ed.

...and this was just about teaching little bitty kids about appropriate touching.
Lee

[joe_sixpack]

108. I am noticing here

that there are a lot of posts conceding the authority of parents to teachers. How do you know I am not as qualified or more to teach my children about these things? Because a small number of twisted individuals who unfortunately became parents took advantage of innocent kids, the rest of us are suspect? Give me a break. These teachers in whom you place your unconditional trust are in the news quite a bit these days with their own stories of abuse and mistreatment. I take the responsibility of a parent as the most important task I have ever had. I endeavor harder than any other job I have had to do the best and continually try to learn as much as I can about doing it better. I will readily admit that educators have specialties and can teach certain things in school far more efficiently than I, and I am glad they are there for that. But there is a certain level of control over my children that I will relinquish to no one, because I know that there is absolutely no one who cares about them, will protect them, loves them or lives for them as much as I do.

[Kat 333]

111. I wish to have been able to express myself this well.

And if that isn't easy enough for those who question why some can't just fall right into their line of thinking ...
Nothing ever will.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

112. I answered my child's questions completely and honestly.

I have a B.A. in Biology so I had no problem talking about it.

Unfortunately my parents told me nothing in the sixties, and I was determined to educate my child honestly about sex. She went to a Montessori school and in the fourth grade they had an educator from Planned Parenthood and talk to them about it.

[sandnsea]

113. Nobody is stopping you from teaching your kids

Teach them whatever you want. Don't let anyone except you mention anything about touching or sex or anything else. Good for you.

But you don't have the right to make that choice for other parents.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

114. My daughter

thought it was right that the folks from Planned Parenthood came in and talked to them about what they needed to know, BEFORE they were teenagers. They were in the "Ewwww!" stage at about 9 or ten years old.

You read too much into my post. I didn't say that teachers shouldn't teach about touching or sex. I just said I was qualified. But I am also glad that Planned Parenthood came to my child's school as well.

[sandnsea]

115. Uh yeah

We were in about 5th grade too, waaaaay back in 1967, when they taught us about menstrual cycles because that's when girls first started developing. I can't believe it's 40 years later and we're still debating about teaching stuff that every single one of us was taught.

Also, I wasn't responding to your post. I was responding to joe-sixpack. Nobody is saying parents aren't qualified, or that every single teacher is more qualified than any given parent. That's an intentional distortion. I don't know what it serves to do that. So you're qualified, big whoopin' deal, that has absolutely nothing to do with the issue.

[Madspirit]

123. Point me to a link

Point me anywhere that shows teachers abuse kids with NEARLY the frequency of the parents. Parents are number one child abusers. Go to the Department of Justice for these stats or just any abuse site. I tend to think educated people are best to teach these matters to kids. "Don't" is not good sex education. Lastly, the OP was talking about teaching "good touching" and "bad touching" to kindergartners, not giving them a porno flick to peruse.
Lee

[VelmaD]

109. What some people don't seem to be grasping...

is that if we actually teach kids at this age to respect each others personal space...it would help solve a whole helluva lot of other problems. If you really learn to respect others at age 5, I'm thinking you're WAY less likely to sexually assault someone, or even just pressure them into sex. And if you learn at that age that others should respect your space, you're less likely to give in to pressure for sex you don't want and you're less likely to blame yourself if you get raped. Not to mention if you learn a healthy respect for personal boundaries you're probably a lot more likely to end up having more satisfying emotional and sexual relationships later in life.

It all starts when kids are little. What they learn at that age about boundaries and ego and body integrity stays with them the rest of their lives. You don't bring the word sex into it at that age...but if you don't help little kids establish boundaries then it's much harder to do when they're older and ready to actually learn about exactly how sex works.

[kalibex]

121. Yup.

In general, this culture s*cks at teaching its young about bodily integrity & respecting same.

We need to do better. And we can't wait forever for enough parents to get good at teaching their children that.

After all, we can see how well that's worked up til now....:eyes:

A person can't teach what they never learned themselves.


But, of course, that's assuming the 'PTB' want everyone to be self-respecting, confident and less easy to abuse.


-B

[illinoisprogressive]

110. he is right. with so much of the abuse seeming to escalate it is just like

protecting against illness. Knowledge is your greatest weapon

[QueenOfCalifornia]

117. As A Mom...

I would like you to be less abstract about what sort of SEX EDUCATION you are talking about - Here are my thoughts:

I am an older Mom. I am 50. I have a degree in behavioral psychology. I am married to a professional. My son is 7. My daughter is 6. Both go to public school - I am probably the most informed, socially aware parent at the school where they go- (I live in San Diego and the school, built in 1957, is surrounded by military housing.. get the picture?) My children are kind and smart. I did not send them to pre-school but instead spent all my time with them when they were little - we went to museums and the park and our swimming pool. We ate out and ate in and they learned to love animals and people and have fun. My son - who is going into the 3rd grade was tested and he reads at a 9th grade level. My daughter, who starts 2nd grade in the Fall, is socially advanced and has more common sense than most adults -- One thing they have in common is a respect for people of all kinds - they do not know what racism is.

If any adult ever told my kids it is okay for them to be sexual and I found out about it - Well, you can guess.... The justice system would be bypassed by me.

I would not stand for any sort of bullshit from anyone regarding this issue.

I would approve of a special class that was separate and was taught by a specialist and would not scare the crap out of my kids but would make it clear to them what a predator is and how to react.

[SayWhatYo]

119. Ahem...

Well, I don't think there is much to worry about. I do not think they will be teaching 5 years how to give oral sex or how to be sexual. Instead, it will be about bad/good touch things.


What's up with the product description of your kids? Are you trying to sell them on ebay or something? I don't think they allow that anymore.

[Breeze54]

128. You should be teaching them the basics now!

Sex Education: Resource List

http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/pa/pa_blsexedu_pep.htm


Books for Children

Ages 4 to 8

* A Kid's First Book About Sex; by Joani Blank and Marcia Quackenbush; Down There Press, 1993
* Mommy, Daddy, Where Do Babies Come From?; by Grace Ayad and Richard Panzer, Benny Andersson (illustrator); Center for Educational Media, 1997
* El Maravilloso Mundo Del Amor Verdadero (The Wonderful World of True Love); by Graciela Ayad, Richard Panzer, Benny Andersson (illustrator); Center for Educational Media, 1997
* Mommy Laid an Egg! Or Where Do Babies Come From?; by Babette Cole; Chronicle Books, 1996
* Where Do Babies Come From?; by Margaret Sheffield; Alfred A. Knopf, 1987

Ages 6 to 10

* Asking About Sex and Growing Up; by Joanna Cole; Econo-Clad Books, 1999
* Where Do Babies Come From?: For Ages 6 to 8 and Parents; by Ruth S. Hummel; rev. ed.; Concordia Pub. House, 1998
* Where Did I Come From?; by Peter Mayle; Lyle Stuart, 2000

Ages 9 to 12

* Changes In You and Me: A Book About Puberty Mostly for Boys; by Paulette Bourgeois; Andrews and McMeel, 1994
* Growing and Changing; by Kathy McCoy and Charles Wibbelsman; Perigee Books, 2003
* It's Perfectly Normal: Changing Bodies, Growing up, Sex, and Sexual Health; by Robie Harris; Candlewick, 1996
* It's So Amazing!: A Book About Eggs, Sperm, Birth, Babies, and Families; by Robie Harris; Candlewick Press, 1999
* Just for Girls: Understanding Your Body and the Changes You're Going Through; by Elizabeth Hoekstra; Crossway Books, 1999
* My Body, My Self for Boys; by Lynda Madaras; New market Press, 1995
* No B.O.! The Head-to-Toe Book of Hygiene for Preteens; by Marguerite Crump; Free Spirit Publ, 2005
* The Preteen's First Book About Love, Sex, and Aids; by Michelle Harrison; American Psychiatric Press, 1995
* Ready, Set, Grow! A What's Happening To My Body Book For Younger Girls; by Lynda Madaras ; Newmarket Press, 2003
* Personal Hygiene? What's That Got To Do With Me?; by Pat Crissey and Noah Crissey ; Jessica Kinsley Publ, 2005
* Puberty's Wild Ride; by Marta McCave; Family Planning Council, 2001
* Sex Explained: Honest Answers to your Questions About Guys and Girls, Your Changing Body, and What Really Happens During Sex; by Magali Clausener-Petit; Amulet Books, 2004
* Sex Stuff for Kids 7-17: A Book of Practical Information & Ideas for Kids, Parents & Teachers; by Carole Marsh; Gallopade Pub. Group, 1998
* My Body, My Self for Girls; by Lynda Madaras; New Market Press, 2000
* What's Happening to My Body? Book for Boys: the New Growing-Up Guide for Parents and Sons; 3rd ed.; by Lynda Madaras; Newmarket Press, 2001

_---------------

I have 3 kids and I read some of these books to them at ages 3, 4 and 5 and older.

It's progressive education.

Small children ARE molested and they need to know or have some information!

Give them the knowledge, Mom!

[Breeze54]

127. Romney himself once indicated support for the same sort of sex-ed approach -- "age-appropriate"

Snip--->

The Bay State's Aim for Sex Ed

http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=politics&id=5495343

In Massachusetts, under then-Gov. Romney, the state department of education had a set
of nonbinding sex education goals for the prekindergarten through grade five cohort.

By the end of grade five, the Massachusetts Comprehensive Health Curriculum aims for children to be able to:

(1) identify "the components, functions, and processes of the reproductive system,"
(2) identify "the physical changes as related to the reproductive system during puberty,"
(3) define "sexual orientation using the correct terminology (such as heterosexual, and gay and lesbian)"
and
(4) recognize "that diet, exercise, rest, and avoidance of risk behaviors such as smoking,
drinking, and other substance use contribute to the health of a mother and fetus."

Before the end of fifth grade, the Massachusetts framework also aims to teach children
about inappropriate touching.

more...

------------------------

Romney is a lying hypocrite, panderer! :grr: