Please help me rebut this anti-Canada health-care claim

[BushOut06]

I saw this posted somewhere on a site that I frequent:

Let me preface by saying I'm an American therefore I grew up on the US healthcare system. And my Canadian experience is specific to Quebec, which may be different from the other provinces.

So, free healthcare right? Sure, through paying 15% general sales tax on everything.

And how to get said care. You need to first visit a general practitioner even if you know you need to go to a more specific doctor. The problem here in Quebec is that nearly all general practitioners are not accepting new patients so unless you've lived in Quebec for over twenty years you're out of luck. In order to find out that nobody is accepting new patients you must call around, going down the line in the phone book.

OK you say, but surely they must have walk-in clinics. Each neighborhood has a CLSC, where you can go for walk-ins, supposedly, but when I called my assigned CLSC (which I guess is dependend on the neighborhood you live in), even THEY told me that they're not accepting anyone who isn't already a patient there. Some walk-in clinic.

Maybe other Canadians, even Canadians in Quebec have had better experiences, however my "free" experience thus far has been hell. I much prefer the American private system where generally your employer foots at least part of the care, you pay no more than $50 a month for it, and are free to go to somewhere nice and clean like Kaiser Permanente that DOES accept new patients.

I simply refuse to believe this is true, it just sounds like a bunch of right-wing talking points. Can any of our Canadian friends help me rebut this?

[applegrove]

1. I got a doctor in a Quebec walk in clinic as soon as I arrived. As to doctor

shortages..yes..living near the US means they suck a certain number of doctors away from us. And the standards are so high that when we suck doctors away from other countries it takes them forever to get qualifications.

No doubt finding a doctor is an issue in rural areas. But they are on the case. As to waits in emergency rooms...I was at a hospital where when the emergency room got to full a call went out across the whole hospital and doctors doings rounds stopped what they could and headed to emerge.

I can walk to a clinic anytime I need something looked at. The wait may be an hour or so.

Not perfect - but much better than you have at present.

[MannyGoldstein]

2. Well, I'm Not Canadian, But I Have Researched A Little

All told, in the US we pay about 16% of our income for health care. Canada pays about 11%. Our health care costs more.

Taxing via an income tax is more equitable than taking the same from everyone - this way the wealthy pay more, the poor pay less.

Canadians live about three years longer than we do. Their health care system is cheaper AND better than ours. Cheaper AND better. Cheaper AND better.

I really don't think that there are "assigned" clinics that people must visit - they can go to any doctor they want. I also don't believe that you have to go to a GP first - certainly you don't for emergencies. As to doctor shortages - same thing in the US. Most industrialized nations have 1.5x to 2x as many docs per capita as does the US.

[evlbstrd]

3. I'm not Canadian.

But I can rebut this:

Maybe other Canadians, even Canadians in Quebec have had better experiences, however my "free" experience thus far has been hell. I much prefer the American private system where generally your employer foots at least part of the care, you pay no more than $50 a month for it, and are free to go to somewhere nice and clean like Kaiser Permanente that DOES accept new patients.

Hell, you say. First, we know it's not free and expect to pay for it in taxes. $50 a month? Under my "employer-provided" plan, my premiums alone are $530 per month to cover myself and my two children. When my oldest is excluded from the plan simply for turning 22, my premiums will not change. After that, toss in $25 for every office visit, the need to get a referral to specialists and their office fees, lab fees and prescriptions, and I'll pay less through an increased Medicare tax, which currently costs me $40 per month.

[iverglas]

4. we do it ... and do it and do it and do it ...

I'd buy you a gold star, but I can never remember how to work paypal and I think my visa might not work until yesterday's payment goes through ...

But there's an easy way to search DU without the star.

Do this search at google (ignore the hot-link thingy, just copy and paste the text into the search box):

>>> site:www.democraticunderground.com canada universal <<<

(edited to make that clearer: copy and paste the text between the >>><<<)

You will get 2,450 results in which those words are used in a post/thread at DU. You can be pretty sure they're almost all about the Canadian health care system, one way or another.

There's a thread in the Canada forum right now, just a few from the top of the page, collecting Canadian DUers' experiences with getting blood tests done, as compared to the experience of a woman in the US.


Offhand, here's a thread from 2004 where I and many others contributed both personal experiences and links to various information and studies:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1942277

Ha. What I said there:

16. aaargh -- bookmark these!!
I'm getting tempted to donate gold stars for people who want to know stuff like this, so they can search the archives!

Actually, I'd say read that thread and you'll know all you ever need to know. Have fun!

[iverglas]

5. p.s.

If you want to debunk the moronic right-wing noise being made by the moronic right-wingers at that site about minimum wages (what is that place and why do you hang out there??), there are people here who can help with that too, I'm sure ...

[BushOut06]

6. Actually...

It's not really a political site. In fact, political discussion very rarely comes up there. For some reason, someone started talking about minimum wage, and this came up. I don't really want to get into a pissing match, but thought it would be nice to get some facts that I could respond with.

Thanks for the help with your previous response!