Dennis Kucinich is not a viable candidate because the Corporate News Media says he isn't viable.

[Selatius]

BOB GARFIELD: And, in fact, in a piece by Matt Taibbi of Rolling Stone during the 2004 race, he quoted a reporter on the campaign beat as saying, yeah, if there was a battle of position papers, Kucinich would be credible, but that's not how things work. The consensus on the bus was that Kucinich was just too left-wing, too geeky-looking to be electable.

Now, you know, in spite of their maybe elitist tendencies, these boys and girls on the bus have been around, and, as it turned out, they were right, were they not?

JEFF COHEN: Well, they were right, if you believe that they weren't part of the process. See, that's the central myth of political reporting. They have this pretense that they're not impacting the process. The reality is that if you don't cover a candidate week after week after week, and if you do cover that candidate, he will be ridiculed in all of the major media, well, then you are impacting the outcome.

BOB GARFIELD: So the media consensus that a candidate is marginal becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. No coverage equals no name recognition equals not very many votes.

http://www.onthemedia.org/transcripts/2007/01/19/03

You know what that thing is I just underlined?

I have long ago dubbed this technique as "propaganda by omission." (Don't get me wrong; the entire article is rather good, but I underlined this portion to demonstrate my point)

This propaganda technique is far more sophisticated in that it is not obvious to the victim he is being lied to. Rather than manufacture a lie or a half-truth to try to defeat a truth, they simply don't acknowledge a truth exists at all. No lie is needed at all.

In comparison, the techniques employed by fascists and communists 60 years ago are crude in comparison to the techniques employed today.

This is the more sophisticated way one can influence the outcome of primaries and elections. By molding a view of reality simply by omitting relevant facts or truths, one can influence or steer the course of political events in a direction one wishes, regardless of what the general population feels.

[ShortnFiery]

1. Kucinich has my vote, even if I have to write it in.

NO MORE WAR! I'm sick of the Military Industrial Complex RUNNING our foreign policy decisions. :(

[Name removed]

113. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[magellan]

132. Ditto!

No one else on the horizon to suit me, unless by chance Gore enters the race. And then I'll think about it.

[Jim Sagle]

2. The Keebler Elf is not viable, period. Snap out of it.

[Selatius]

3. Interesting how the article also notes the sneering, dismissive attitude he got.

Ironic how you only just help perpetuate it here in this little thread.

[Jim Sagle]

4. It's not ironic, it's significant.

Beasue I don't have an agenda, I'm just giving my casual impression. I suspect it's the same impression many others would have.

[EFerrari]

21. Maybe your casual impression would be improved if you heard Dennis

talk on the House floor on the topics of Iraq, corruption, the working poor, Katrina, the war on Terra (wow, this list could get really long!).

I guess we'd need to have public funding for elections instead of corporate funding for slick ads in order for someone like Dennis to really get heard.

[Cruzan]

36. He's like 5 foot 7 and looks like a space alien

(or Keepler elf, take your pick). I'm sorry but guys that look like that just don't get to be elected President of the U.S. these days. No matter how brilliant his policy positions, superficial qualities like appearance are the first things people think of, and for many, unfortunately, remain the dominant image. He'd undoubtedly make a great cabinet officer (or even V.P.), though, and almost certainly the next Pres. will have him on his short list.

[EFerrari]

37. Really?

Edit: Maybe I just don't see Dennis any more. After listening to him and learning about him, he looks pretty beautiful to me. lol

[Cruzan]

39. Please note the 'these days' above. Thanks!

[EFerrari]

40. I do get it. But the media is plastic and wants our dough.

Why sink to their level when we are the buyers? :)

[treestar]

42. Nothing wrong with fighting that

I'm sick of all the shallowness myself, and think it is worth fighting. That's what Bushco has done, been all about image, and people may be getting ready to deal with reality and realize that the president is an office holder who does not have to "look like a president" but BE a president.

[rinsd]

44. Lincoln had snappy head gear!

:-)

[EFerrari]

45. You know, I wonder if there are just some of us who are born with funky DNA

and can look at someone who isn't conventionally beautiful and see someone who is hot?

lol

[rinsd]

46. I think emotional connection is important there

Sometime the connection overrides the more superficial.

[Trillo]

70. There's another way of looking at that.

Maybe right now we NEED an ELF for President! My point is intended as humor, but perhaps with a grain of truth that can be utilized in the campaign somehow.

People :loveya: love :think: elves!

[arikara]

110. That's just sick

No wonder the world's in the state it is. Led by the great US with its wonderfully charismatic leaders.

:puke:

Sick.

[AndreaCG]

5. I know a Rep was elected President on the West Wing

But we haven't even had a Senator elected since Kennedy. It would take someone with the visibility of House Speaker or Majority Whip to have a chance IMO.

Though I'm all in favor of having the first vegan President, it's not going to happen.

[Luckyduck]

6. I want the candidate that the media ignores

The Corporate media has proven themselves to be liars in cohorts with the Bush administration. They have no influence on thinking people. They are frauds!

This campaign season I think people will be looking for a candidate based on their actions, not their words and definitely not what the Corporate whores tell us.

[OhioChick]

7. If Dennis were given equal

air time as that of other candidates, you bet he'd be a favorite. Unfortunately, that isn't the case......it seems the media has decided. He's a good man.

[Freddie Stubbs]

12. All candidates are not equal

Lyndon LaRouch was not invited to any of the debates.

[Bjorn Against]

56. Kucinich is not Lyndon LaRouche

Kucinich has a great deal of grassroots support, and he deserves to be treated fairly. I do not want the corporate media deciding for me who is a viable candidate and who is not. I am sure you would not be happy if they questioned your candidates electibility in every story without having to back it up with any facts.

[Freddie Stubbs]

96. Facts? What facts back up Kucinich's electability?

:shrug:

[Bjorn Against]

112. He is elected by wide margins in his district, and has a large group of very passionate supporters

He has been consistently right on the war, and has been more upfront with the American people on his plan for peace than almost any other member of Congress.

What facts back up this notion that he is not electable? There are none, the media simply repeats it over and over so people assume it must be true so they don't give him a chance.

[Freddie Stubbs]

116. His district is heavily Democratic

His tenure as Mayor of Cleveland was so bad that voters elected a Republican in 1979. His campaign for governor went so poorly that he dropped out of the race.

If his performance in the 2004 primary is any indication, his chances are slim. Just look at how poorly the did in his home state, where people who know him best:

Kerry 617,611 52%

Edwards 408,175 34%

Kucinich 107,685 9%

Dean 30,213 3%

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/primaries/pages/states/OH/

9%! Dean got a third of that, and he had already dropped out. If OH voters don't take this guy seriously, why should the rest of the country?

[Bjorn Against]

122. He saved the city of Cleveland hundreds of millions of dollars

He lost the election for mayor because he refused to privatize the municipal power company, and he was retaliated against hard by the corporate interests which did everything they could to destroy him, and for a while it looked like he was destroyed.

But then the facts came out, and it turned out that Kucinich had saved the city hundreds of millions of dollars. So now the same city that threw him out has realized that he was willing to take a very unpopular stand because he knew it was in the best interest of the community, and that city now elects him to Congress by huge margins because they know he will stand up for their best interests no matter how much heat he takes for doing so.

And those election result numbers you post don't mean much, because by the time Ohio had their primaries the nomination was already a foregone conclusion. Many people did not vote for Kucinich because of the same reason the original post points out, they did not think he was electable. But not thinking someone is electable that does not make it so, and if everyone voted based on conscious rather than electabilty I have no doubt Kucinich would have done much better.

Kucinich could be very electable if people would give him a chance and not dismiss him as unelectable simply because other people say he is not electable. I think he would be a great leader, and I think he has the ideas and the charisma to express those ideas in a way that really motivates people. That makes him a great candidate.

[Freddie Stubbs]

133. Cleveland voters may like Kucinich as a legislator, but do they trust him as an executive?

He came in 3rd place in his own Congressional District:

http://www.boe.cuyahogacounty.us/results/history/2004/030204_PE_Summary.txt

[Ken Burch]

130. Kerry already had the nomination bought by that primary.

And btw, Freddie, Perot(whatever else you can say about him)turned out to be right about NAFTA while Gore was wrong. Passing that "trade deal" is nothing for any "Democratic" administration to gloat about, since it only benefited CEO's.

[Freddie Stubbs]

131. Yes Edwards got over 3 times as much support from Ohio voters

Even when the election was a forgone conclusion, most Ohio Democrats did not want to show any support to Kucinich.

[rinsd]

15. Sorry, the only time Dennis with be a fav is on forums like these.

He doesn't seem have a good campaign organization. He's not courting the bloggers. He doesn't seem to have relationships with other party people that are critical to getting the word out. He doesn't raise enough money. He just seems utter clueless in how to run a campaign.

[skipos]

8. I don't think Kuc has any interest in trying to be President

her runs because he wants to raise issues, just like Sharpton. Personally, I have no interest in voting for candidates like that, but I have no problem that they do what they do.

[Telly Savalas]

127. Agreed.

If Kucinich were serious about being president, he would surely be aware of the issues raised in the original post, and would be much more creative about working around these obstacles than he is at present.

Unlike you, however, I would consider voting for a Kucinich, realizing of course that my support for him would likely get translated into his support for somebody else when he drops out.

[Freddie Stubbs]

9. Howard Dean didn't get much press until he won the MoveOn poll and started raising tons of money

from his website. After that, the press started taking him seriously.

[rinsd]

18. It was the latter than really propelled him though.

And with Kucinich I went to the FEC to see how much monye he raised.

Its was around $13M total but what shocked me is when broken down month by month his money seemed to dry up in late 2003 (around Oct) vs. March 2004 like the other candidates.

[leftchick]

10. thank you for this

is is quite obvious how the media totally ignores Dennis because he is not owned by Corporate/Defense industry giants like Hillary and many other DLCers. He speaks truth and cares about people and the M$M does not want that for a candidate.

[Generator]

11. Good post!

Propaganda by omission is a brilliant line. And so sadly true. I wonder how shallow Americans are and how much is the media diet? How can we ever know for sure? Certainly Britons are much better informed, though they too have tv rot and tabloids.

Which reminds me, last time Kucinich was single. Never viable for president. (also more suitable things that being married says-someone wants him, he's manly etc.-no chance of Gay president-can't have that!)

Now he has a very beautiful younger wife. He has viability now! The "couple" running for president is always part of the package. I doubt he will get treated much differently because he is SO against the mainstream. And the mainstream of this country seems to be a love of fear and war. And that is fed to us constantly.

[cynatnite]

13. You are right...

I don't think Kucinich has a snowball's chance in hell no matter how much I like him. Corporate media is responsible.

I remember watching a documentary a while back about this guy running for president. IIRR, he was a good dem candidate, but never got an honest shot by the media. He was shut out.

[mvd]

14. If given an equal chance, he would catch on

The problem is that his ideas are so ingrained in the public's minds as radical that he likely won't get the nomination. Candidates are also often judged too much on appearance. But he has learned on the job in Congress as far as administration is concerned, and he's my first choice right now.

[OneBlueSky]

16. you flatter them by calling them the Corporate NEWS Media . . .

they are the Corporate Media . . . the few times they fully and accurately report the news are rare and purely coincidental . . .

[NYCGirl]

17. He's not viable because of stuff like this (from an article in today's

Washington Post about tinfoiler groups):

The biggest hurdle for TIs is getting people to take their concerns seriously. A proposal made in 2001 by Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) to ban "psychotronic weapons" (another common term for mind-control technology) was hailed by TIs as a great step forward. But the bill was widely derided by bloggers and columnists and quickly dropped.

Doug Gordon, Kucinich's spokesman, would not discuss mind control other than to say the proposal was part of broader legislation outlawing weapons in space. The bill was later reintroduced, minus the mind control. "It was not the concentration of the legislation, which is why it was tightened up and redrafted," was all Gordon would say.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/10/AR2007011001399_pf.html

He's a lovely man, with some great positions, but...

[mvd]

19. Well IMO, all of this seems ahead of his time

Mind control might be the next step if Bush got his way. Again, all of this would make an impact of people didn't know him.

[NYCGirl]

20. There's ahead of your time and then there's just loopy. NT

[mvd]

23. Well IMO, it's not loopy

[Freddie Stubbs]

38. And yet even Kucinich dropped this from his legislation

If something is too crazy for Kucinich, it must be really out there.

[mvd]

48. It if was too much for this bill, at least he dropped it

You're right there.

[druidity33]

117. well...

pilot programs for RFID chips have already taken place. Nanotechnology is growing at an exponential rate. Trillions of dollars go into R&D of drug companies... is there any transparency there? Do we know what they're working on? We already know the government has been working with mind control techniques since the late 40's... and like 50% of our defense budget is Top Secret.

It's NOT a stretch... besides, maybe he knew something we didn't.

[Kolesar]

128. You may *think* that you have not been a victim of mind control

But you cannot be sure. :tinfoilhat:

[rinsd]

22. Being the Congressman who went after mind control weapons is a political winner?

"Again, all of this would make an impact of people didn't know him."

Yeah they would shake their heads.

[mvd]

25. I agree with him and it's all minor in the grand scheme of..

things. I'd rather have someone who believes in some conspiracies than someone who would abandon progressive principles.

[rinsd]

27. I'd rather someone who did neither. (nt)

[mvd]

28. I'm sticking by Kucinich

He's not exactly saying aliens have invaded the earth. And even if I didn't agree with a conspiracy, no one is perfect.

[rinsd]

30. By all means do so, to each his own (nt)

[mvd]

31. Thanks - glad we could be agreeable here

:toast:

[Freddie Stubbs]

118. Not just mind control weapons--Mind control weapons based in outer space!

[rinsd]

121. The all important yet under-patronized Trekkie vote

:-)

[Luckyduck]

52. Those are government experiments/research

not theories from tinfoilers.

I think you should be more worried about what our government is up to, and not that Kucinich looks foolish talking about it.

"In response to a Freedom of Information Act request filed for this article, the Air Force released unclassified documents surrounding that 2002 patent — records that note that the patent was based on human experimentation in October 1994 at the Air Force lab, where scientists were able to transmit phrases into the heads of human subjects, albeit with marginal intelligibility. Research appeared to continue at least through 2002. Where this work has gone since is unclear…

Meanwhile, the military’s use of weapons that employ electromagnetic radiation to create pain is well-known, as are some of the limitations of such weapons. In 2001, the Pentagon declassified one element of this research: the Active Denial System, a weapon that uses electromagnetic radiation to heat skin and create an intense burning sensation"

[NYCGirl]

66. I'm worried about what our government is really up to, not this crap. NT

[Trillo]

91. I was researching building methods once,

and accidentally came across the information that large commercial buildings often use radio-frequency shielding building methods and materials.

Top result here is titled: Architecture Design Handbook.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&as_qdr=all&q=radio-frequency+shielding&btnG=Search

From that result: "Most often, they are constructed for government or corporate groups with particular requirements."

[LeftHander]

120. We need fundemental, wholesale changes in attitude....for DK

Frankly I am constantly amazed at how vicious the attacks are on DK here. Anyone who watched C-SPAN in the run up to war saw Dennis Kucinich at his finest. Here is a guy who has compassion, smarts and refuses to be bought by big corporations and is willing to stand on liberal, progressive ground.

Ground WE ALL KNOW is the right place to be and where we ARE HEADING (kicking and screaming it seems)

I am glad DK is in the race...he is going to hard to ignore because all you have to do is replay a few speeches from 2001-2002 and see how correct Dennis was and is on so many issues.

We have to move away from war as foriegn policy. We have to collectively adopt "progressive" ideas and policy in regards to social security, health-care and education...and we have to stop the "OIL WAR ECONOMY" that Bush and the repukes have created.

So frankly when I hear all the moaning about DK on this board I frankly tune it out because I know...his critics don't know how capable DK is or how Presidential he really is...

I also have to question people motivation for slamming DK before the race even starts....I haven;t posted much on this board in recent months because it seems to of become a place for DINO trolls doing the DLC's bidding and dis-info ditto heads and "concern trolls"

DK is the right person in my book to lead this country in a new direction, and in two years it will be the right time.

[danielgeery]

24. Who makes the rules around here?

Dennis is exactly as electable as we make him--how can it be otherwise? That's why I'm more than a little tweeked at Molly Ivins, Arianna Huffington, Common Dreams, etc., who didn't get behind him and GET him elected last time.

I hope we've all figured that out and do everything we can TO GET HIM ELECTED this time!

BTW, if you want a free Kucinich bumper sticker



send me a self-addressed stamped envelope, Daniel Geery, 1987 S. McClelland St., Salt Lake City UT 84105, and I'll send you one asap.

[mvd]

26. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[helderheid]

33. Hi Dan!

It's me, Clarity!

:hi:

Welcome to DU!

[newyawker99]

53. Hi danielgeery!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[mdmc]

90. nice

:kick:

[Rex]

29. They did the same thing in 2004. The M$M controls who gets 'nominated'.

Or so they would like to. DK got marginalized last time, because the M$M would be held accountable for their lies if DK got elected.

I still have fresh in my brain the CHARACTER ASSASSINATION on Dean in 2004, I had no idea the M$M was that scared of Dean!

My pic for 2008? DK and Wes or DK and Howard. We need a Peace President!!! NOW!

[helderheid]

32. rec 4 - anyone is electable if you elect them.

[onenote]

34. i think his performance in 2004 may have more to do with it

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/primaries/pages/candidates/1380/index.html

His average finish in the primaries in which he ran was fifth place. Heck, in Ohio, where presumably they know him pretty well, he finished a distant 3rd with only 9 percent of the vote.

I have no problems with Dennis, but he's not going to get the nomination and its not because of the press, its because other candidates are more organized and have broader bases of support than Dennis.

[Luckyduck]

55. That information is incomplete and misleading

That was not the delegate total for Kucinich. Those were numbers from early in the primaries.

Dennis received high percentages in Colorado, Oregon, Hawaii, Alaska...and it was hardly a fair primary given that Kerry was the darling of the media.

[onenote]

69. here is the complete list

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Democratic_Party_presidential_nomination,_2004

By my back of the envelope calculations, DK averaged around 6 percent of the vote in the primaries/caucuses in which he ran. If you just look at his performance from the later primaries (after March 9, the last date in my origina link), you'll see that his performance from March 10 onward wasn't that much better. While he had a few states where he made it into double digits, his overall average was still under 10 percent (below 8 percent by my rough estimate)

[mikelgb]

35. sigh

although I have to say he is getting much more attention this time around so far

[treestar]

41. My argument on that

We need a geeky president. We have been trying to replace Kennedy and have "greatness" every time, and that's what's not viable. We have to get over the drama queen end of it, and just get somebody smart who will carry out the duties of the office and that's it. We need a period on non-drama. Calmness. Regular life. Somebody who doesn't care if he makes "greatness" in history.

Same thing about Al Gore being "boring." We need someone boring. We've had enough "excitment."

[saracat]

43. Dennis had good ideas but he is unattractive and is a poor speaker.

He sounds like a barking dog and irritates his audience.That is why he can't win.
I loved his prayer for America.I was very excited when I got a chance to interview him and hear him speak in 2004.
I was very disappointed.He completely turned me off though I wanted to be enthusiastic about him .I just couldn't.He is not at all personable.Al Sharpton has a better chance than Dennis.

[here_is_to_hope]

47. I say he is, who ya gonna believe? n/t

[mdmc]

49. you

:patriot:

[Luckyduck]

73. great audio from the first campaign

DK vs. Dubya on the economy- Who's Electable with bush ribs clip
roflmao... you can't make this stuff up (-;
http://ftp.radio4all.net/pub/archive/05.29.04/dk-w-whos_electable_k48.mp3

The Last Democratic Debate on CBS- cut down to 10 min,
what does the $$ media care about? - likability
http://nyc.indymedia.org/usermedia/audio/6/dem-debate-cbs.mp3

Dems on Health Care- CNN Debate
"What we have now is predatory capitalism,
which makes the American people a cash crop for the insurance companies."
http://ftp.radio4all.net/pub/archive/05.29.04/cnn_debate-hc-k94b.mp3

Dems on Outsourcing
Who will support the American Worker?
http://ftp.radio4all.net/pub/archive/05.29.04/cnndeb-outsource-k93a.mp3

Dems on Iraq and the troops
Who has the proven ability to stand up and fight the good fight?
http://ftp.radio4all.net/pub/archive/05.29.04/cnndeb-troops-k60d.mp3

Kucinich on Health Insurance
Got 8 min to consider Health Care for All Cradle to Grave ?
There are 44 million without health insurance, DK offered them free health care for life.
44 million that can't afford health care, yet they wouldn't vote for DK cuz he's too short?
Don't believe the media, they are lying. Why? They will lose big $$$$$$
Kucinich would have won.
http://ftp.radio4all.net/pub/archive/05.29.04/kucinich_on_insurance-k93b.mp3

[WI_DEM]

50. If DK is nominated he will enjoy my total and enthusiastic support.

[JackRiddler]

51. the "keebler elf" lie...

Of course Dennis looks silly. And if the media started going on and on and on about what a cute (little) hunk he is, it would be treated as the undeniable truth within a week.

Look at Bush, please! This guy can't speak English and he looks as dumb as he talks. If the media could have pumped him into presidential, they can do it with anyone.

[femrap]

108. * looks like Satan....pointed ears,

slitty, beady eyes, pointed chin. I'm amazed he doesn't have a pointed read tail swinging behind him. And that horrid little wheezy laugh.

No, if * can be elected, a cute Keebler elf can be. And who doesn't like cookies? It's all in how you spin it.

I saw DK on Democracy Now and he was making great points against this repugnant asshole.

[SaveElmer]

54. A Presidential campaign is about more than...

A contest between position papers...

Dennis Kucinich has shown no knack for governance so far. He was at best a subpar mayor in Cincinnati, and in reality probably closer to a disastrous one. And during his time in COngress he has accomplished little. He is primarily a back bench bomb thrower. We'll see how he does now that he is part of the majority, but thus far he has done nothing that would warrant his election as President IMO...

[blm]

57. Dennis was a GREAT populist mayor in a big business city of CLEVELAND.

He did the right thing for the PEOPLE in his big showdown with the fascists DESPITE the unfair thrashing he received from the Republican newspapers there.

[SaveElmer]

60. Sorry...

There is no definition of "good" that describes his tenure as mayor...his one accomplishment produced so much rancor he was nearly recalled. He had a childish spat with the Chief of Police, and appointed teenagers to important city positions...

And the city went bankrupt shortly after he left office!!!

[AnOhioan]

64. Read up on some history....

The city of Cleveland was in crappy financial condtion when he took over. So crappy the plan was floated to sell the municipal power system to a private interest. DK had campaigned on saving that system, an when elected, did just that. He kept his campign promise to the people of Cleveland.

The whole deal about bankruptcy was the fact that industry and banking interests, which by the way, shared some board members between them, played hardball and the banks called due, in full, some loans which had been issued to the city.

Reagrding the Police Cheif and some of his staffing choices....yeah, Dennis goofed up, as some many of us have at thta age, 30ish.

He is now in his upper fifties, more seasoned, more able to handle difficult situations.

I know the man personally and worked on his '04 Presidential campaign.

His concern for the middle and lower classes (humanity in general actually) knows no bounds. His intergrity is unmatched in politics. His passion for working for the betterment of all is what drives him.

So please, unless you do some research and talk to those who know him, please remember you can be ill-informed of what you speak.

[SaveElmer]

65. I have...

And there is an argument to be made that the cities bankruptcy was not entirely his fault..however he did little to alleviate it...

And the excuse that he was in his 30's as a reason for his immaturity in office is pretty ridiculous, Bill Clinton was the same age when he was Governor of Arkansas...he seemd to be able to handle it like an adult...

He was not a good mayor...

And he has little on his resume in Congress to show that he is able to work the political system to get things done...

None of this suggests he would be a good President!

[eerriicc]

58. he's kind of loopey

was he the one that planned if elected to replace the department of defense with the "department of peace" Sounds nice, but he's not a realistic national canidate. He reminds me of the screw ups on american idol, how seriously they take themselves.

[Luckyduck]

61. the department of peace is in addition to the dept of defense

He is not 'loopey' He is the one in the House of Reps that has been leading every effort against Bush and his policies.

check out his website
www.kucinich.us

[G_j]

62. George Washington wanted a Dept. of Peace also

just sayin'
BTW I've seen him speak in person and met him.
he is intelligent serious and down to earth,
the trouble is, truth is considered a liability in politics..
too bad

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

63. Holy CRAP! You're OLD! -nt

[Luckyduck]

75. lol

:rofl:

[G_j]

59. absolutely, I call it sabotage

and far too many here do it also,
perhaps without realizing it
sad indeed

[sandnsea]

67. He had his chance and blew it

He should shut up now. So should Edwards and anybody else who ran in 2004. Democrats already said no to them once. How thick-headed are they.

I think I'll type that on every Kucinich thread. Just for fun.

[AnOhioan]

78. And I can ingnore you...just for fun

[EFerrari]

79. How did he blow it? By continuing to bring up issues that DLC Democrats

wouldn't.

We owe Dennis for speaking up for the interests of real working people.

And I hope he keeps talking for a long, long, long long time.

And I will type that into every Kucinich thread. Just because it's true.

[G_j]

82. by telling the truth

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

83. Yeah, apparently truth isn't photogenic, either.

I really don't have a dog in this race. I'm just hoping the candidate that is put up is someone I can work for.

But Dennis is a rare thing: he is a public servant. And we wish we were so lucky as to have a mind like that leading this nation -- instead of these inbred Bush bastards who can't form a sentence or notice when our kids are torn to bits in New Orleans or in Baghdad.

[G_j]

84. yes he is

& I hope the time may come when we can elect real public servants

[EFerrari]

85. Always good to read you, G_j. Happy New Year to you and yours. n/t

[G_j]

86. you too!

it was good to read your posts tonight
glad you are still here

[sandnsea]

87. Just showing how stupid it is

We need candidates talking about all the issues, and we don't have that with the current field. Very concerned the real issues are going to be drowned out by Vilsack, Biden, Hillary, Richardson, Dodd...

[burythehatchet]

68. Reading the pathetic, non-sensical responses on this thread makes me

double my committment to work for him in the primaries.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

71. Hmmmm. And Here I Thought It Was Cause He Polled At Like 2% Or Somethin Like That.

Silly me.

[burythehatchet]

101. Your only false premise is that you believe you "thought"

your words have never reflected thought.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

104. Blah Blah Blah Blah. So What Was His Percentage Last Time Around?

From a factual standpoint, I'd say they were 2% or so.

Sorry that facts hurt you so much that you are only left with childish attack in response to them bub.

[burythehatchet]

105. the whole point of the post, genius, is that the media

decides whether to cover a candidate. They did not. And when they did it was to ridicule. If they a cover a candidate, his numbers go up. Get it?

[G_j]

106. that would of course

take actually reading the article and addressing it's content

sheesh

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

107. Hey Genius, If You Think That The Media Is To Blame For Him Being 2%, It Is You Who Has Some

improvement to make with critical thinking skills, not me.

I think Kucinich is strong on many issues. But I'm not gonna lie about his chances or electability either. And to blame the media for his bottom of the basement polling is shows a complete lack of acceptance of reality on your part.

But believe what you will. You're entitled.

[brg5001]

126. Bingo! The OP made the point well.

Perfect retort. Once the MSM turns it into a media circus and annoints the "electable" candidates, even Martin Luther King Jr. or Abe Lincoln would poll in the single digits if they're deemed too 'far out'. The numbers follow the script, and it's written by MSM every time.

[madrchsod]

72. dennis does`t have a chance to be elected but that ..

does`t mean his ideas are not worth implementing...

[Jcrowley]

74. Superb post

One of the greatest tools of propaganda in our mediated world is 'silence'. This is well understood.

And is this then inevitable? the answer is a resounding NO!

What does that mean?

It means that the way to break the spell must come from each of us. Not here on the internet so much though that has value too. But it means becoming the media in your everyday life. know who your natural allies are and hit the streets with your message.

We can make it happen. We must.

K&R

[Hippo_Tron]

76. No, he's not viable because he doesn't hire good campaign staff and build connections

And has no plans or even ability to raise the necessary money needed to run for President.

[NNadir]

77. How many campaigns will it take to prove this point?

It seems like Dennis Kucinich is rather disconnected from the point of Democracy which actually involves getting votes.

Maybe this latter day Harold Stassen - which is not to say that Harold Stassen was a tiresome pixilated bore - will bother to consider this in his 20th or 25th Presidential campaign.

[Luckyduck]

80. Let's just let the Corporate media decide who we should vote for?

We are the media now. We have to spread the word so that Dennis will get some votes.

[EFerrari]

81. Really? What part of "democracy" involves having your candidate

filtered through Right Wing corporate @ss-kissing media? I'm having trouble figuring that out.

[NNadir]

88. Look, I know who Kucinich is.

Maybe you think that just because I think - no, I know - he's a complete idiot I am under the control of the "corporate media."

If this is how you would like to excuse the fact that Kucinich doesn't get votes, so be it. I think though that you are greatly over estimating your skill with critical thinking.

Maybe you can't handle that people can think for themselves. However your post contains not a whit of analysis. It is simply shouting slogans.

Let me start by explaining, for just one example, why I think Kucinich is a moron. He has proposed a "Department of Peace." Apparently he has not had enough civics classes to understand what the Department of State is supposed to do. He could - instead of proposing divided responsibility - indicate that he would hire a competent "Secretary of State," but instead he offers us useless slogans.

I don't actually care if he runs or not, except to note that his ego trip reduces the amount of time that we have to evaluate competent and thoughtful candidates.

Kucinich is flake.

[G_j]

93. civics class

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Peace

"The original idea of a Peace Department in the United States dates back to the administration of George Washington, but has been most recently proposed by Rep. Dennis Kucinich in 2001.."

[NYCGirl]

94. Maybe Kucinich can bring back powdered wigs, too.

:evilgrin:

[NNadir]

97. Really?

The Wikipedia article is all about Dennis Kucinich - who is a complete idiot - and reports nothing about the relationship of the "Department of Peace" proposed by Benjamin Rush - who is not by the way George Washington even though he was a contemporary - and Kucinich's idea. There is not one bit of explication about the similarity - beyond the name - between Rush's idea and Kucinich's slogan. I believe you, and the Wikipedia author, are trying to imply something that is not exactly a paen to critical thinking, specifically that this idea was somehow connected to Washington.

I note that George Washington was the President of the Constitutional Convention however, and there is no evidence that he was involved. His opposition to standing armies is in no way a declaration of the need for a Department of Peace.

Your link is about as weak as Kucinich is and demonstrates a poor understanding of the content of civics classes.

If, of course, the idea is more than 200 years old, we may note that generation after generation of the American people have rejected it as useless and unnecessary.

They must have all been controlled by the "corporate media."

I note that if the "corporate media," really wanted to axe Kucinich - and probably they don't because he makes our party seem ridiculous - they could simply go through his introduced bills, like the one banning mind control (corporate presumably) rays from outer space.

Kucinich is an egotistical waste of time without a single clear thought in his head. Why oh why, can't he just run on the Green Party ticket? Why does he insist on wasting our time at debates?

[G_j]

103. critical thinking:

"Kucinich is an egotistical waste of time without a single clear thought in his head"
:banghead:

(that's the ticket!}

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/Home.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=RecordDetails&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=ED128287&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=eric_accno&objectId=0900000b800e5fed

ED128287 - George Washington Peace Academy Act, 1976: Hearing before the Subcommittee on Education of the Committee on Labor and Public Welfare, United States Senate, Ninety-Fourth Congress, Second Session on S. 1976.

[rinsd]

125. The Dept of Peace Kucinich envisions is quite different

It seems to be a catch all for liberals positions with everything from gun control to human & animal rights to drugs.

[EFerrari]

111. Well, no.

[helderheid]

89. Get him a makeover on "Queer Eye" and we'll see about that!

[NNadir]

92. Now that I would like to see...

I haven't watched that show in a long time, but it certainly was fun. Is it still on?

[helderheid]

99. It is - it almost happened with him last election :D

[NNadir]

100. Maybe Jai could have helped him clean up his incomprehensible presentation of "ideas."

Kucinich is certainly lacking grace, but I think that the problem is essentially intellectual and not merely style.

[helderheid]

102. I'd pay money to see that!

[baldguy]

95. I love Dennis but...

He *did* bring a display graph to a radio debate.

The thing is the lefties that are "out there" are systematically & routinely ignored and marginalized by the corporate media elites, while the evil neocon "vulcans" were gifted the keys to the kingdom by the very same people.

[porkrind]

98. Fuck those dittoheads.

I'd vote for him. In fact I did in 2004. But then I read books instead of watch TV. :)

[Vidar]

109. The media's dismissal of him is one more reason to vote for Kucinich.

[eridani]

114. Living in a caucus state, I don't give a good goddam about "electability"

What I want is to push the party more in the direction where people like Kucinich and Webb already are. Caucuses are more weighted towards issue people, and a good showing by Kucinich will give the various populist causes a lot more clout at the national level. In 2008, everything is wide open for both Dems and Repubs. If he's willing to stand up and be the standard bearer for the things I care most about one more time, how can I not back him?

(BTW, his 2004 run has already made Edwards a much better candidate than he otherwise would have been.)

[begin_within]

115. Here's a Kucinich avatar or two, if you want one...

[mopinko]

119. the thing about dennis

i just watched this video, and commented. part of his peace plan is to replace american troops with un troops. now, this is as stupid an idea as i have heard. every kucinich plan has that element of "then a miracle happens" and everyone lives happily ever after. he is a dreamer. he should be happy to be in congress. he should keep writing his nice papers, and stop wasting other people's money with his presidential dreams. (and then there is the matter of the '04 vote thieving in his district. he did nothing. don't tell me about his statement that he released. he was not out there with jesse jackson, john conyers, et.al. he was hiding under his desk.)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x13814

[Laura PourMeADrink]

123. Seeing him shake Bush's hand last night made me sick n/t

[redqueen]

124. Excellent observation!

I'm volunteering for his campaign ... again. :D

[Mrspeeker]

129. The medias choice LOCKHEED AND MARTIN FOR PREZ....2008

its just another military hardware show all in the name of freedom and democracy!

[LWolf]

134. You would think that,

for all the bitching Democrats here on DU do about the media, that they would not eagerly embrace the media's choices. That they would stand up and support, and vote, for the best candidate, rather than for the corporate media's darlings.

Instead, I hear bitching about the media on one hand, and deriding candidates with better platforms and records as "unelectable" on the other. Nothing enables media control of the public mindset like willingly acting their puppet.

[Luckyduck]

135. exactly

:applause:

We do not need to be victims of the media. They lost their credibility. They know the bloggers have ruined their control of the 'news'. It is our turn now.