I Noticed Something Not So Nice Has Happened To Americans

[illinoisprogressive]

I love history. Especially social history. My favorite period is post Civil War to post WWII.
I have got to thinking that something nasty has taken place in the United States and Americans.
In the 1910s and into the 20s the craze was for everything Egyptian and the mysteries of that part of the world.
In the 20s and 30s many ex patriots settled in Paris. Artists, writers and journalists. Things French and English was really cool.
In the late 40s and into the early 60s, the French were in vouge again but, so was Italy.
The 60s gave way to even more openess, curiosity and acceptance of different cultures throughout the world and there was alot of quests for understanding the world around us and the people of other and varied countries and the cultures.

flash to 2000s. People do not know where Canada is. And don't care. People show little interest in the world and dont' want to be bothered about understanding other cultures and the people.
As the new century creeps along, we have turned hostile to other people and countries and cultures. it's all American or nothing. but, what is American but a mish mash of a variety of cultures.
A congressman who is personable and well liked is elected but, is a muslim. A person who is Hispanic is under suspicion for maybe being illegal that people don't smile. A french restraunt that featured jazz on the weekends is vandalized and trashed because it is french. Everyone is suspicious of any country other than Britain. Other cultures and the people are fodder for tirades and angry jokes. doesn't matter if it's Sweden, Greece, Morocco, ect. Everyone but, americans are evil. All cultures are inferior and we want no part of them or their ideas.
We don't even want to know where it is on a map.
What happened.

[BlueJazz]

1. I think we should just all settle down and go to McDonald's.

[AngryAmish]

2. I prefer Culver's

Ingredients are more fresh.

[mmonk]

3. That's the nice Scottish place that serves hamburgers, right?

[alittlelark]

9. Let's meet at the Cracker Barrel and discuss the problem.

[KoKo]

4. Good points you make. We aren't the same people we were....

and it's hard to know what we are becoming. Maybe there's less fascination because we've become more Global and there are less differences in culture as people travel more.

But, maybe our culture is being dumbed down into nothingness stamping out any curiosity. People are working so many more hours...not much time to think beyond just living. It takes time to think and dream.

[lostnotforgotten]

8. Historically Only 7 % Of US Citizens Have Held Passports At Any Given Time

Not much of a traveling public.

[aquart]

5. Wow! Talk about inaccurate, superficial analysis.

Oddly enough, my masters thesis was about the post-Civil War period.

You kinda left out things like the Civil War POW camp in Chicago with all the graves. The vicious labor unrest of the late 1870s. And 80s. And 90s. Forgot the Haymarket Massacre. The Pullman Strike. Private police forces beating up workmen.

The craze for all things Egyptian was imperialist as all get out. Our rich people went to Egypt, pulled mummies out of the ground and shipped them home. And whatever else they could cheat greedy graverobbers out of.

The people settling in Paris were escaping crappy conditions in the United States and Britain and reeling from World War I trauma. The 20s were eat, drink, and be merry because yesterday everybody died. Everyone still breathing was feverishly welcomed.

Suspicion of strangers, foreigners was rampant in America. Irish need not apply. Jews don't try to live here. Damn you left out the South post reconstruction. What a fine fun place to be black or any combination thereof.

Really, and that's just what jumped out at me. I could go on for days with food and a little Google refresher.

And please, can we not forget that, seeping thru the roaring 20s, here and in Europe, was the ugly, stinking rise of Fascism?

[illinoisprogressive]

7. I wasn't going to go into pages and pages of the history of the period. Geez

[cynatnite]

15. Well, aquart did kind of blow what you said to pieces...

It's always easier to look to the past to see what's so great and ignore the horror and shame.

[leftstreet]

22. ...

Continue.

:thumbsup:

[tkmorris]

25. Aquart, damnit!

The OP was talking about CULTURAL changes in the United States, specifically in it's view towards other nations in the world, and you know it. Why did you flame him so? It was totally uncalled for.

I would wager that the OP is quite knowledgeable about all of the events you mentioned, and quite a few more, but didn't mention them because they were not pertinent to what he was trying to say.

Your response is out of line, IMHO.

[aquart]

41. Bull cookies.

OP cherrypicked a few goodies from the past (very suspect goodies) and contrasted them with cherrypicked uglies of our present. A past when, btw, a woman running for president was a joke not a serious contender.

As to our hatred of things foreign now, how about the Yellow Menace of the 1870s and the horrible treatment of Chinese immigrants? Forgotten? Or 1906 when San Francisco tried to prevent asian children from attending school with white ones? That was over 30 years later. Racism isn't cultural?

Sorry. Rose-colored glasses for the past do no one any favors.

[Unbowed]

6. During the reign of the conservatives, ethnocentricity became cool.

France had the good sense to question the war in Iraq and they were on the enemy list, our long-standing relationship as alies notwithstanding.

The conservatives foster this mindset to keep us in control. People who are afraid of new ideas and new cultures (and being called liberal) are easier to keep in check. It's about power and maintaining power through keeping suspicion and the "us or them" mentality alive.

[magellan]

11. Bingo

It's all about control. "Don't trust or listen to anyone who doesn't think like you do." Bush** is an expert at hawking this ignorance, and practices it himself. It's done him a lot of good, hasn't it?

Welcome to DU, Unbowed!

[lyonn]

37. Are you referring to Un Curious George?

He has a disease call dumbness and it's contagious. It has swept our country. Hopefully we are recovering. How I miss the days when we had Bill at the helm and he was popular all over the globe. But, the neo-cons (PNACers) hated Bill and his hillbilly ways and darn near destroyed him. Those were the good old days when people were allowed to have an opinion.

[Miss Chybil]

10. I know where Canada is. I love learning about cultures other than my own.

Most cultures, as most people, believe other people are not completely up to their standards. (Think of what you think about the way your friend keeps house, or how your neighbors raise their kids, or your roommate who doesn't do her homework until the day before it's due.)

People have always been pretty much the same. Some are more studious, some are more curious, some are more open-minded than others. There have always been people who look to the past for comfort and others who turn to the future for hope. There have always been "nice" people and there have always been "bad guys," in every culture and in every time.

People of the past were not "better" than us. They were not more open, or less judgemental. If you went back in time and took a survey, I'm sure you'd find a certain and consistent percentage of conservatives and a certain and consistent percentage of liberals. Cultural norms have changed - women's rights, education, civil rights, etc. - I think we could agree, for the better since the Civil War in America - but, people themselves change little over time, or throughout time. If you do a little research, I'm sure you could find something written 200 years ago, or 2000 years ago, expressing the same concerns you are expressing here and I'm sure someone 200 years from now will be writing about how we were so much better in our day than they our in theirs. Nothing changes, really.

[truedelphi]

12. Well, the middle class is gasping for survival

Like any entity gasping for survival - you don't actually think about travel and culture.

I was sort of musing along the same lines as you earlier today. Sat and watched an entire Bonanza episode all the way through - something I had not done since the mid-sixites when it last was on the air.

Ben Cartwright - we accepted him as the typical middle class father figure.<Although, of course, he was not very typical> The Ponderosa was so lush and the Cartwright family was so prosperous - but since at that time things in the US looked great for the middle class, nothing about the situation was too jarring. It was the No 1 rated show for several years back then. Meanwhile It was taken for granted that although Granpa and Granma were working class, that the grandkids would go to college and each succesive generation would traverse ever greater vistas of accomplishment.

[JeffR]

13. Since I moved here, I can find Canada on a map

I devoutly hope rightwingers can't and never will.

[specimenfred1984]

14. Propaganda is widespread and persuasive

Both corporate and gov't propaganda has been finely tuned over the last 100 years, to the point where selling an idea is more important than actual ideas.

I highly recommend reading a few books on propaganda, it explains a lot about what's going on now in the U.S..

[conscious evolution]

28. Damned good idea

One can't shake off the effects of propaganda and brainwashing unless one recognizes the techniques and processess being used against ones self.
More people need to take the red pill,in my opinion.

By the way,for what its worth,The Matrix is one of the most important movies ever made.People should really pay attention to its theme of what mind control can do to people.

[badgerpup]

16. XENOPHOBIA...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia

"Xenophobia denotes a phobic attitude towards strangers or of the unknown. It comes from the Greek words ξένος (xenos), meaning "foreigner," "stranger," and φόβος (phobos), meaning "fear." The term is typically used to describe fear or dislike of foreigners or in general of people different from one's self."

Seems like we're actually seeing this attitude ENCOURAGED in certain spheres...like oh, say...religious?
:tinfoilhat:




And because I KNOW this is going to come up...:popcorn:
Wikipedia had no entry for XenAphobia: "Unreasoning fear of extremely hot warrior princesses in leather skirts."
"This page does not exist."
I did check. :rofl:

[starroute]

17. I think you're bending your data

Forty or fifty years ago, it was never more than a minority that was cooking French dishes or going to Italian movies. It was only the artists, the college students, the trendy people in general. Most Americans ate meat and potatoes and went to see John Wayne Westerns on Saturdays, and regarded anything beyond that with deep suspicion. Jewish delicatessens were considered the outer edge of the tolerably exotic.

These days, on the other hand, my sons and their friends are fascinated by anything having to do with China or Japan. They worship martial arts stars and use oriental-sounding names to post online. Their younger siblings are growing up on a steady diet of Asian cartoons and comics. Even the insanely successful Pirates of the Caribbean series is bringing in Chow Yun-Fat and a crew of Chinese pirates for the third movie, just to keep the audience interested.

At the same time, the cookbooks and produce stands are being infiltrated by Asian ingredients and cooking techniques (along with some Mexican and Caribbean.) And this is not just for the young and trendy -- it's affecting a broad range of American society.

I don't deny that there's a certain amount of kneejerk xenophobia around -- but I think that's mainly a matter of Americans' insecurity about their economic situation and status in the world. In terms of general "niceness," things were no better in the past, and often a great deal worse. Just check out ethnic humor of the teens and 20's to get an idea of what it really was like. Or silent movie melodramas, in which the villains were almost invariably some sort of menacing foreigner. Or read some H.P. Lovecraft and see what he had to say about Portuguese fishermen. On the whole, we're far more tolerant, open-minded, and receptive of difference today that we ever were in the past.

[barbtries]

18. i don't experience that

in my daily life. i wonder from where you are measuring your benchmark...hopefully not the zenophobes on faux.

i would love to go around the world. one problem nowadays could be related to the fact that the bushies' foreign policy has turned us into a pariah nation (justifiably) feared and loathed throughout the world.

and i cannot speak for anyone but myself...but i personally no longer hold the belief that i am lucky because i am in the best country in the world. since gw took over i don't have my country anymore. so that "we" you're talking about, it ain't me....

Barbara

[tblue]

20. Sad but true.

[LibDemAlways]

19. Americans don't even know much about their

own country. When I worked in a travel agency years ago a woman came in and told me she wanted to go "someplace out of the country...like maybe New Mexico." I thought she was joking, but she wasn't. She actually thought New Mexico was part of Mexico. I also had a client once ask me if English was spoken in Hawaii.

And ignorance certainly isn't confined to geography. Many Americans are completely clueless about the world of politics DUers eat and breathe. A few years ago when he was still in the Senate Tom Daschle took a driving tour of South Dakota followed by a c-span cameraman. He stopped at a diner along the highway, walked in, and made small talk with some of the customers. It was painfully obvious no one knew who he was except for one man - visiting from France - who recognized him immediately and introduced him to his family as "Tom Daschle, the Majority Leader of the United States Senate." It was a very interesting and revealing moment.

[greyl]

21. As long as the rest of the world takes notice of US, everything will be fine... nt

[OneBlueSky]

23. what happened is that those who own this country don't want an educated citizenship . . .

they don't want people who are critical thinkers . . . they want only obedient workers who will take the minimum wage jobs, forego their benefits, acquiesce to the theft of their pension funds, sit in front of their televisions/computers/videogames and not make a stink . . . thus the deepening educational crisis, thus the vast wasteland of television, thus news reports that omit, mislead, and outright lie . . .

what happened it that they're using every avenue -- education, media, the internet, etc. -- to carefully program us to be dumbed down, uninvolved spectators with no significant say in what happens to us, with no real control over our own lives . . .

and they're succeeding . . . big time . . .

[GreenZoneLT]

24. Read "Babbit" and "Our Town"

If you think the U.S. used to be more cosmopolitan, you're hugely mistaken. The reason there were so many expatriates in Paris was because a Bohemian lifestyle in the U.S. could get you arrested.

[krispos42]

26. I can find most any country on a map, and quickly, too.

Thank God. Maps have always been kind of a compulsion for me. Love Google Earth, and I try to be aware at least a little aware of the outside world.

[GeorgeGist]

27. The USA was not prepared...

to be the only superpower; so instead it created new enemies.

[bdamomma]

29. its lack of education and ignorance at its highest.

[Progressive Idealist]

32. I agree n/t

[Progressive Idealist]

30. I'm beginning to wonder if the concept of inferiority...

is once again gaining popularity. I'm in high school/college (I'm graduating this year, but I'm also taking classes at the University of Oklahoma in the afternoon) and one of my male friends posted a blog on myspace labeled "Women's Rights". The question posed was, "Do they deserve them anymore? Thoughts concerns?"

I was shocked by the responses.

"I don't really think so... They had a good run but yeh they've made little or no impact in the past 80 years or so of our history. In the words of James Brown "This is a man's world" - guy

"personally i dont think women should have any rights at all, well unless if you say there rights are to make sure dinner is on the table and that the children get to school on time!" - another guy

"...women do contribute to what i call my man's 3 point plan. They cook for us, clean for us and fuck wiht us. Besides that they are just problems"

(By the way, I didn't edit these quotes and left the spelling errors)

Obviously, I found it offensive and made my own post stating, "...Of course women deserve equal rights. Men and women are different, but that doesn't necessarily make either better or worse. Each excel in their own areas. Each contribute in their own way to society as a whole." Which quickly sparked an argument between me and the guys. I would post it on here but it's pretty lengthy. If you would like me to post the link let me know and I will.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I found it interesting that American's are beginning to not only view other cultures as inferior as you have illustrated, but my fellow high school students are even broadening this to include to women.

[Lisa]

31. not so long ago, there was a credit card card commercial ...

Late '90s, I think it was. There were two young women driving around a small Midwestern town, buying gas, groceries, etc., and speaking French. It gradually became evident that they were American and were practicing the language for a trip abroad -- everybody they speak to appeared to understand them, and did not think it unusual. (The commercial ends with the information that frequent flyer points will be given for everyday purchases.)

The day I heard the news that the Congressional cafeteria had renamed French fries "freedom fries", I couldn't help remembering that commercial, and feeling like I wanted to cry -- not for the credit card company, of course, because they will do just fine no matter what happens -- but because something had changed, and not for the better.

[smirkymonkey]

33. We're in our "Dark Age"

[Dean Martin]

34. I know where other countries are

I must be weird then. I know where most countries are in the world, except very small obscure ones. And even then I look them up on my world atlas. I study maps and can find my way anywhere in the world if I have a map. I drove myself around Germany years ago with a map and had no problems.
I watch programs like Anthony Bourdain (well when I see them in reruns, he's on tonight and I work on Monday nights), Travel channel stuff, National Geographic stuff.

If I see a cultural program on Kenya or Namibia or Indonesia, I'll pick that any day of the week over any of the pop culture, American Idol, prime time network trash.

I like Russian, French, Chinese, Thai, Japanese, Spanish, Italian, Cajun cuisine. I've never had African dishes or Caribbean dishes but I want to try them.

But then again, my family is multicultured, so I guess I must be strange.

[WinkyDink]

35. Reagan happened. USA! USA!

[bobbolink]

36. "Don't care about understanding other cultures".... hell, they don't

even care about understanding their neighbor, or people they know.

It's all about being tough.

[bumblebee1]

38. These are the same people who could tell you more about

Peyton Manning or Dale Earnhardt Jr.'s family than they could tell you about their own family, friends or neighbors.

[Sabien]

39. Canada?

...don't they speak French up there?

egads!

[roamer65]

40. Fascism.