God bless Andrew Meyers, a true American patriot

[subsuelo]

FREE SPEECH, the right to express your opinion, that is what this country is all about.

Thank you Andrew for exposing the total bullshit on both sides of the political aisle - for exposing their extreme hypocrisy and obvious disregard for freedom of speech.

Andrew you had every right to state your questions to John Kerry, without being "led away" by police, without being forced to shut up, and definitely, without being slammed to the floor and tasered.

YOU, Andrew W. Meyer are what freedom and democracy are all about, in fact, you represent the very ESSENCE of freedom.

YOU are what the American forefathers fought for and died for. For your RIGHT to speak your mind. For your RIGHT to challenge government officials, no matter what your political persuasion, no matter how others may disagree with your point of view.

God bless you, kid. Keep fighting the good fight!

[malta blue]

1. I can't help it....

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:






:hide:

[TwilightGardener]

2. Yeah, nothing more American than staging your 15 minutes of fame for the cameras.

[cali]

3. Prayer to Saint Andrew

the patron saint of obnoxious disruptors and hecklers.

Prayer to Saint Andrew:

Oh blessed Saint Andrew, hear my prayer. Help me to be as big an asshole as I can, disrespecting the rights of others, and get away with it. May I always be seen as the victim, by those I'm trying to bamboozle, and may I never get called on my bullshit no matter how egregious, and never have the crap beaten out of me, no matter how disruptive and disorderly my conduct.

Amen.


Disclaimer: NO I DON"T THINK HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN TASERED.

[TwilightGardener]

12. LOL!

[book_worm]

120. Love it!

[taterguy]

151. Why do you think the poor guy should have been tasered?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. God bless Larry Craig.

Keep on fighting for our God given right to tap dance anywhere we feel like it!

You, sir, are a pervert patriot!

[spanone]

5. and don't forget the ever loving mark foley

and mr. vitter

how's about 'duke'cunningham

mr. abramoff

and the ever smarmy alberto g

[blondeatlast]

126. And hpw quickly we forget--Phil Parlock... nt

[cali]

21. LOL!

You and I butt heads frequently, but that's just funny.

[eleny]

28. Will his tasering be on tv? I don't want to miss it!

After all, he was accused of a crime.
.. :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: ..

[durrrty libby]

6. The only thing he cared about was getting attention.

He sucked you in good:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[subsuelo]

8. makes no difference

[brentspeak]

14. You can say that again

Well said. :thumbsup:

[LittleClarkie]

32. Yeah, if it was just a question, it kinda went on for a while

even so, Sen. Kerry was willing to answer his question and said so.

Didn't seem to matter to the cops. For some reason they'd singled him out. I wonder what he'd done before he got to the microphone. Its not like they knew what he was going to ask, is it?

[onenote]

78. apparently he had interrupted the previous questioner

another eyewitness report indicated that he basically cut in line. The question period was essentially over but after he shut up and let the previous questioner finish (and Kerry answer), he was allowed to ask his question. One report indicated that the police that are seen in the video arrived when he did, which suggests that he was attracting attention outside before he came in, although I have no independent verification of that.

[AlCzervik]

7. He was tasered for our sins.

:P

[durrrty libby]

11. lol ... ...............and for resisting arrest.

[subsuelo]

16. He has a right to resist arrest

"Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense." (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).

[Capn Sunshine]

26. you have the right to bear the consequences of resisting as well

I've been arrested more times than I can recall , and every time, I knew what I was in for.

[LittleClarkie]

35. Is it your impression that this is what the young man wanted?

Is it out of line to say that when people who are arrested for a protest act like they shouldn't have been I find it a bit strange? I thought that was part of the idea. You cause a ruckus, you get arrested, you get on the evening news.

[eleny]

36. How did it feel to be tasered?

[LittleClarkie]

33. Depends on what was going on before the video started I suppose

there's got to be a reason the cops were sort of right with the guy.

[onenote]

86. he has the right to resist an "unlawful" arrest -- and what is 'unlawful' is narrowly defined

State v Harris, 148 NC App 716 (01-240) 02/19/2002: This Court has held that “he failure of the State to satisfy the jury beyond a reasonable doubt of defendant's guilt of the offense charged is a far cry from a failure to satisfy the jury beyond a reasonable doubt that the arresting officer had reasonable ground to believe defendant had committed the offense in the officer's presence.” State v. Jefferies, 17 N.C. App. 195, 198, 193 S.E.2d 388, 391 (1972). It is only necessary that the officer has reasonable grounds to believe such offense has been committed. Id. (citing State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E.2d 100 (1954).

As the respected jurist Learned Hand stated in 1958: "The idea that you may resist peaceful arrest...because you are in debate about whether it is lawful or not, instead of going to the authorities which can determine... not a blow for liberty but on the contrary, a blow for attempted anarchy." (quoted in Rogers v. State, 280 Md. 406, cert denied, 434 US 928 (1977)

[Connie_Corleone]

9. God bless obnoxious assholes.

He didn't get tasered for asking questions. He got tasered for resisting the officers. I personally think that 6 cops should've been able to handle him WITHOUT a taser. The taser has become a too convenient weapon for cops to use for just about any disturbance.

Having said all that, Andrew Meyer is an attention whore who wanted a confrotation. That's why he shoved his way past the other students to get to the mic, took his time asking his questions and then started acting like a maniac when the cops were trying to escort him out of the building.

[subsuelo]

13. He should have fought back, he has a right to

"Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense." (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).

"An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery." (State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260).

[Connie_Corleone]

20. He was fighting back, that's why he got tasered.

The cop told him to not resist or he would get tasered. He resisted, he got tasered.

[ddeclue]

23. Yeah right... he was disturbing the peace and acting in a beligerant manner

Hardly what I call "peaceable assembly".

Doug D.

[subsuelo]

59. asking questions is not disturbing the peace

[brentspeak]

25. Apparently, Meyer has a long history with being an attention whore

I found this on the University of Florida newspaper website, posted by someone on their news forums. It's something Andrew Meyer wrote when he was with the newspaper:

"I've finally done it. I angered enough people to have an entire letters-to-the-editor section all to myself (http://www.alligator.org/edit/opinion/issues/stories/040722letts.html#1), full of PO'D readers who just put down my column. Truth be told, I agree with all of them. The letter to the editor I got for my first column was BS, but these people hit the nail on the head. Calling my 'campus lacks intelligence' piece self-centered and obnoxious was precisely what it deserved, and these people gave it to me right between the eyes...And all of this is exactly the response I hoped for. I knew this is how my column would be received, and I'm glad. What I wrote was pompous, contradictory, and self-congratulatory. And it put my name out there. People were undoubtedly talking about what I wrote. At least four were angry enough to write those letters. I wrote something that would be controversial on purpose; I wanted people to read something, ANYTHING that I wrote. Because while the public might completely hate what I had to say, they might at least get a kick out of what they were reading at the same time; maybe even enjoy my writing style, and look for my name in the future. "

[subsuelo]

42. so what?

You advocate arresting and tasering people for that?

[OzarkDem]

136. Yeah, the Kent State students deserved it, too

right? :sarcasm:

Funny how people want to sit at their computer and complain about the Bush administration, yet turn yellow when someone gets up and calls attention to the issues.

[Harper_is_Bush]

10. Good grief, the kid is an annoying little prick.

And a prankster. And an idiot.

When police are asking you to move someplace else and you refuse, they will take you by the arms to guide you. If you resist, YOU are escalating the situation, not them.

The belief that people have a right to do and say what they want on PRIVATE PROPERTY is a false one.

Ever been asked to leave a bar by a bouncer? See what happens when you say no.

[orleans]

131. oh yes, annoying little pricks deserve to be electrocuted

a prankster? electrocute them!

idiots? electrocute them too!

LET'S ALL GET ELECTROCUTED!

if a cop tells you to pull your pants down are you more than willing to accommodate? HOW FAR WILL YOU GO TO "OBEY AUTHORITY"? and if you have the audacity to say NO then you deserve to be electrocuted too. right?

and yes, i do know that when my daughter is at college she has completely given up all her civil rights because she is attending A PUBLIC SCHOOL. students should not kid themselves by assuming they have any rights on a public collage campus.

[Rick Myers]

15. Dear Andrew, bummer, dude...

Can we get "don't taser me, bro'" printed on all our money???

[jpgray]

17. Yes, denying others their free speech then causing an incident to no purpose

Hooray for Democracy! My speech is more important than yours! Excuse me while I push ahead of you in line and then take up all the Q&A time with my rambling, and deny any chance for an answer with an unnecessary prolonged incident! America! Fuck yeah!

[DURHAM D]

31. Me Machine

Andrew M. - just another little Me Machine.

We have several who post here that are similarly unaware that their rights actually stop when they are infringing on the rights of others.
Guess they missed school on the day that was taught. Or perhaps they don't teach that anymore.

On another note - I hope they drug tested that kid. He seemed really jacked and didn't respond to being tasered as I thought one normally would. He never shut up (stopped acting) and never really calmed down.

[LittleClarkie]

44. Indeed. And to his credit Kerry had wanted to answer.

But the cops sort of put the kibosh on that.

[orleans]

132. and maybe if kerry had talked a little louder into his mic the cops would have

heard him over all the yelling and screaming! all he needed to to do was to say "OFFICER! OFFICER! PLEASE. IT'S OKAY. I WANT TO ANSWER HIS QUESTION. PLEASE LET THAT YOUNG MAN GO."

[girlquick]

57. All the time.

Take up "all the Q&A time with my rambling"

You do realize from the time he first took the microphone to the time they FIRST asked him to leave was approximately 33 seconds and the time from when he took the mic to when they forcibly dragged him away was about 1 minute and 33 seconds. I would be very surprised if they had only alloted about 2 minutes for Q&A. But who knows, the less amount of time for questions the less lies Kerry has to make up to answer them.

[Scout]

75. he INTERRUPTED the person who had been told theirs was the last question...

he grabbed the other microphone and interrupted the student who was asking the LAST question ... the students who were hosting the event are the ones who got the police involved.

He was already "out of order" when he first opened his mouth.


ETA: uh, welcome to DU, i think :eyes:

[subsuelo]

94. oh so interrupting warrants arrest

nice, way to defend civil rights there

[Scout]

127. oh for fuck's sake, how ridiculous can you get?

he wasn't arrested for interrupting....

you're going on ignore now, you are too ridiculous to waste time on

"argue with a fool, he does the same"

[vincent_vega_lives]

146. So now it's a civil right

to trample OTHER people's right to free speech?

Do I have the right to block you from posting on this forum? Delete your posts on a whim?

Do I have a right to bring a loudspeaker to a concert and sing over the musician?

Do I have a right to run out onto a pro or college football pitch and get into the game?

[subsuelo]

149. thats not what happened

and none of your examples match the situation (not even closely)

[vincent_vega_lives]

152. Actually...if you cared to look...IT IS

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/18/10649/5334

"I was at the Kerry speech today, sitting 2 rows away from all the action. I'll let you know how it really went down.

The forum was going to be over at 2 pm, and Kerry spoke for so long that the Q and A portion had to be shortened. He only got through about 7 of the 50 people who were waiting to ask questions. While the final question was being read, some douchebag ran down the aisle, grabbed the mic from the other side of the room, interrupted the kid who was talking, and started yelling at Kerry, demanding that his questions be heard. He started ranting about how Kerry talks in circles or something, and everyone was getting annoyed. The cops are all over him in no time and try to escort him out, but he starts yelling and resisting. Kerry insists that they let him stay and even agrees to answer his question.

After the interrupted guy's question was answered, Kerry keeps his promise and lets the angry guy talk. This is the point where people started taking their cameras and phones out. All the videos floating around youtube start around here. You can see in the videos that his questioning gets kind of inappropriate, so somebody cut his mic. Instead of shutting up, he starts yelling and making an even bigger scene. He struggled all the way up the aisle, and started violently trying to free himself. They threatened to taze him and he wouldnt stop fighting, so he got tazed. They only had to arrest him because he was causing a disruption and wouldn't leave peacefully. He wasn't being silenced for asking tough questions, trust me.

It's a shame that they had to taze the guy, but he had a chance to calm down and didn't take it. He probably didn't pose a physical threat to anybody in the room, but someone can't just hijack the floor of a forum like that and expect not to get kicked out. This wasn't some poor guy who was brutalized for trying to ask some tough questions. He's just an obnoxious guy who had a fit when there wasn't time for his questions and refused to be calm even when he was given the chance to speak. He was looking for trouble, and everyone applauded when he was forced to leave.

Nothing pisses me off more than hearing stories about power tripping cops abusing their power, unnecessarily tazing or arresting people, etc. It's a huge problem and I'm glad it's being discussed. Just don't mistake this for one of those cases"

[truedelphi]

104. Exactly Girlquick! One minute and under forty seconds

HArdly an attention hog.

Oh but I forget - in the MTV world of today - anything more than 30 seconds is an eternity.

Also welcome to DU!

[baby_mouse]

150. A-MEN. NT.

[fedupfisherman]

18. Tasers are evil

[Throd]

19. Is there room for his likeness on Mt. Rushmore?

Not since the glorious Circuit City receipt warrior of last week has America seen a more noble or courageous figure.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

54. Get in line behind Grover Norquist

...and his push for Ronnie being up there. Maybe all three can go on Mount Trashmore.

[OzarkDem]

22. Agree, K & R

Democracy is hard and not always pretty.

And Kerry supporters should consider how their attacks on this guy demean their own candidate. I don't think even Kerry would agree with them.

[moodforaday]

115. Michelle Malkin sure does

agree! http://michellemalkin.com/2007/09/17/student-tasered-at-john-kerry-forum/

[cali]

24. Do you write for The Onion?

Cause this is some pretty inspired satire. What??? You mean it's NOT satire? Wow.

[blm]

27. Did Kerry EVER have a rider that directed security to deal forcefully with dissenters

the way OTHER politicians do?

NO.

If you knew anything about Kerry, you would know that.


Kerry was courteous to someone who treated OTHER STUDENTS' right to free speech with utter disdain as if their wait in line was deserved while his was not.

There isn't anyone in DC with a better record of protecting dissenters and encouraging dissent than John Kerry.

Your absurd claim that kerry was acting like other politicians who direct countermeasures for dissenters is just FALSE.

[subsuelo]

29. you replying to the original post?

I have never stated anything here about Kerry.

[blm]

45. You lumped him in with the others from both parties who DO stifle dissent.

And he, of all people, doesn't deserve to be lumped in with that crowd.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

30. You're understanding of free speech isn't exactly constitutional

A person has a right to speak without fear of the government censoring the content of his speech. Thus, he can promote his views on the web, stand on a street corner and pass out fliers, lecture in the town square, etc.

On the other hand, NO ONE HAS A RIGHT TO BE HEARD! No one. If this gathering had rules for the students to ask questions, Andrew Meyer had NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to expect that he could speak uninturrupted. He had no constitutional right to grab the mike out of turn and grandstand. None.
When the university official or person in charge determined that his time was up, he had no right to continue without an expectation that he would be removed. What he did have was a right to be safe in his person and safe from the government taking action because of the content of his speech.

HOWEVER, when A. Meyer would not stop speaking, he escalated the entire incident to one where he became of subject of arrest. Once he resisted arrest, he had no right to expect that he would be entirely safe. He did have a right to expect that the police officers would use as much force as possible to subdue him, and no more.

The use of the taser is very questionable and disturbing to me, but I can't say with 100% certainty that they were wrong. I believe they were very likely wrong, but without knowing more, I'll leave that to the official inquiry and hope that it's a fair and honest inquiry.

Between the rightwingers wanted to take away true free speech rights, and members on the left wanting to claim speech rights that don't exist, it's no wonder that Americans don't know what their rights are!

I'm sure someone with more knowledge of constitutional law could do a better job explaining. I apologize if this isn't clearly written. I studied this stuff such a long time ago!

[DURHAM D]

37. You did good.

Unfortunately some just don't want to hear/know that some limitations actually apply to their behavior.

[subsuelo]

38. Watch the video again

He ended his questions, and THEN the police grabbed him. At that point -- after he made his speech and asked the questions -- there were no longer any grounds whatsoever for an arrest. None.

[DURHAM D]

41. Who died and made you God? Good grief. n/t

[subsuelo]

43. what are you talking about?

:shrug:

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[subsuelo]

49. show me what's offensive

specifically.

[DURHAM D]

62. Ok -

Poster #30 tried to give you a better understanding of free speech and how the disrupter evacuated that issue and moved his problem into a new arena. In other words - perhaps your original post, while well meaning, was ignoring obvious other facts that have impact on the situation as well as application of free speech.

Your response - you instructed poster #30 to "Watch the video again".
The video does not address "free speech". In other words you didn't seem to actually take in (or care) that the poster was trying to help you with your assumption. You didn't consider that the poster might have already watched "the video" or perhaps had viewed all of the available videos. The poster may have read the posts from people in the hall. He may have read the newspaper accounts. Maybe the poster knows a whole lot more about this situation then you do, as well as the constitution.

So, your issue of an order to someone/anyone to "Watch the video again" is offensive.

Then you just decided on your very own that there were no grounds for arrest. Your assertion with out basis is offensive.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

68. Awww, thanks.

By the way, I realize you may have been writing in the generic "he," but in fact, I am a she! :)

[midlife_mo_Jo]

73. I've seen several videos.

He refused to leave the mike, and continued to resist. At some point, he has broken the law.

He couldn't just raise his hands and say, "Oops! It's over. I'm leaving!" after having already resisted arrest! At that point, he had committed a crime. Maybe not the most serious of crimes, but still one that had the potential to escalate even more.

[aaronbees]

64. Totally agree ... thank you for some sense

Holding this guy up as some sort of savior for free speech is nothing more than the misguided, hyper-emotional claptrap I expect from DU these days. The guy actually had no regard for the free speech of others, he was disruptive and belligerent, and he himself participated in escalating the confrontation. I'm very skeptical about the use of a taser here but frankly don't have much sympathy for someone who had no interest in answers or actual discussion anyway. Clearly he wanted a platform, and guess what, that's called a protest. If it's a protest, he should accept the consequences, as many fine, courageous people have done so knowingly and honestly before. But lauding this situation as a "free speech" issue is just ridiculous.

And I'm not even gonna start on the infantile Kerry bashing going on in DU today. This place is really sick some days.

[subsuelo]

74. big difference between disruption and asking tough questions of a politician

we all ought to subject our government officials to tougher questions

But, I can see that doing so is made more difficult since so many of us would rather support police officers brutalizing those who do.

Thanks alot.

[aaronbees]

77. A lot of people ask tough questions...

and allow officials to answer. A lot of people ask tough questions without commandeering and disrupting an event. Just look at the tape - there's no way he was expecting answers or would've been mindful of what Kerry said or even participated in a discussion from what I see.

And that's a nice strawman you made there; as you may (not) have read, I said I was skeptical of the tasering, so I doubt I'm supporting police brutality here. I simply said I "don't have much sympathy." There's a difference.

But hey, thanks a lot, indeed.

[truedelphi]

105. Are you aware that this disruptor used up all of one minute and thirty seconds of time

We are not talking about a group of people that came in and shoved Kerry off the stage.

He asked three questions. Three.

Tday you can point to his being rude, boorish, etc and tomorrow when the Jackboot is on everyone's throat, well, maybe then you'll remember this and say, Too bad we didn't have some perspective.

But between MTV and the George Bush evasion method of press conferences, and let's include the staged non debate debates in which candidates no longer even engage with each other but simply rattle off the stifled presentation of the little truth that they own, we have come to this.

[LittleClarkie]

34. St. Kerry of Massachusetts also has a right to be heard

He spoketh thusly:

"In 37 years of public appearances, through wars, protests and highly emotional events, I have never had a dialogue end this way. I believe I could have handled the situation without interruption, but again I do not know what warnings or other exchanges transpired between the young man and the police prior to his barging to the front of the line and their intervention. I asked the police to allow me to answer the question and was in the process of answering him when he was taken into custody. I was not aware that a taser was used until after I left the building. I hope that neither the student nor any of the police were injured. I regret enormously that a good healthy discussion was interrupted."

[JohnnyJupiter]

39. He got what was comming to him

When I first heard the story on the news about the incident at the John Kerry forum at Florida University, I was steamed that they'd drag someone of stage, force him to the ground, and taze him for asking the wrong questions. But now that I've seen the video myself, I see that Andrew Meyer is an idiot and he got what he deserved. Just the questions he asked that were recorded on the video could have been asked in a third of the time it took him to ask them: "Why did you not challenge the 2004 election when many sources indicate you actually won? Why do you not support the impeach of Bush for war crimes when we impeached Clinton for a blow-job? Were you and Bush roommates at Yale and were you both members of the Skull and Crossbones Society?" But he just kept going on and on, growing increasingly erratic, loud, and incomprehensible. The security officers did not arrest him for asking the wrong questions. They were leading him off stage because his time was up and there were other people waiting to ask questions. If he had cooperated, they probably would have only led him back to his seat. But he was the first one to become violent, resisting their attempt to remove him peacfully from the stage by flailing, kicking, and jumping free. The officers were simply doing their job, trying to maintain peace. Meyer was given repeated warnings that if he did not calm down, he would be tazed. And that's exactly what happened. If they hadn't been there, an unarmed, untrained faculty member or fellow student would have tried to remove Meyer from the stage. He would have became violent with them as he did with the officers, and a riot could have indeed resulted, and people could have gotten seriously injured or even killed. He was way out of line, and the officers did the right thing.

[subsuelo]

40. Get real.

The cops were not merely "leading him off the stage because his time was up", as if that's just what they do after a person is done speaking, they grab your arms and seat you down by force.

No, that is not what happened.

[JohnnyJupiter]

48. YOU get real.

No, not merely because his time was up, but because his time was up ten minutes earlier. Some of the videos conveniently omit his questions, they just show him getting dragged off stage and tazered. But he was asked nicely to stop 3 times before they had no choice but to remove him.

But of course no one on this forum is going to agree with me. You all are just like him. This is why I hate politics. Both sides are so blinded by hatred for the other that you never stop to consider the consequences of your actions, or even to make sure your making any sense.

[durrrty libby]

55. Hey WE are not all idiots. I agree with you . I have read the accounts of people

there and watched several videos. Andy only cares about attention. He is a shallow sad sack

He is just a run of the mill arrogant prick :toast:

[subsuelo]

66. are you saying that a loud mouth warrants a tasering?

[Scout]

79. he wasn't tasered for having a big mouth...

he was tasered because he resisted arrest.

i've seen several videos and read the accounts ... whether or not the arrest was justified, he was WARNED if he didn't calm down and cooperate he would be tasered. he continued to resist, and the police followed through.

he could have simply stopped resisting, let them take him out and arrest him and then SUED THEIR ASSES ... it's his own stupid fault he was tasered.

[durrrty libby]

96. Please don't act so stupid.

[subsuelo]

56. democracy is crumbling in front of our eyes

and you justify it

[durrrty libby]

99. No, common sense is crumbling before our eyes

[Vilis Veritas]

80. We are not all like him.

Do not hate politics. Aspire to change that which you find offensive.

Peace and welcome to DU.

[durrrty libby]

51. Students put on this event. These same students rang up the fuzz

because Andy was being his usual assholey self

There are accounts on youtube from people who where there



Looking forward to your thread praising OJ:toast:

[moodforaday]

116. Apparently these students

share the same idea of free speech with many DU-ers and Michelle Malkin. Nice.

Next time, make sure to post an exhaustive list of questions one is allowed to ask and set off a loud beeper after 10 seconds. Better yet, just pre-screen all questions, so that free speech for all may be better protected.

[vincent_vega_lives]

148. Facts

The police warned him prior to the event not to make a scene. He was known to them.

He aggressively barged past students waiting to speak and took the mike.

He proceeded to ask one question after another, never pausing for an answer. He was clearly filibustering, not there for discussion.

When the mic was turned off the decision was made to remove Meyer. He immediately reacted by fighting.

Because he was resisting the decision was made to arrest. He was a pretty good sized dude.

They got him to the rear of the auditorium, but he tried to struggle back in.

The SIX officers could NOT cuff Meyer. They only got one hand cuffed.

The warned him to let them cuff him or he would be tased. He resisted. They tased him. THEN they cuffed him.

[Bluebear]

46. yeah, welcomming to DU

[SecularMotion]

50. The manner in which he asked the questions

was so over the top and out of control that one might suspect that his true motive was to try and make a rational person who may have the same questions look ridiculous.

[truedelphi]

107. One third of the time? Are you kidding? Are U aware of how long he spoke?

He spoke for a full one minute and thirty six seconds. He began by politely thanking Kerry.

And despite the little Valley Girls giggling at him, and Kerry interrupting, he asked three questions. In one minute nd thirty six seconds.

There was no indication at any time that there was a riot about to break out. On the contrary the entire crowd seemed to be made up of Yuppie-ish students who were there to please their civics instructors.

They certainly weren't gonna riot.

[Fly by night]

52. Why is DU suddenly bogged down with such trivial bullshit?

Hey folks, we have a country to save. Let's leave this tabloid trivia to those who feast on it, over at the Faux channel.

Me, I'm going back to writing a talk to my state election commission.

All Taser, all the time. What total bush-wa.

[subsuelo]

61. It's an accumulation of "trivialities" such as this

That add up to a decline in civil freedoms

[Bluebear]

65. tabloid trivia? A conversation about police force?

[subsuelo]

95. moving towards fascist police state is apparently just a triviality

[vincent_vega_lives]

147. The Irony amuses me (n/t)

[midlife_mo_Jo]

69. Well, for starters

many people seem to think his free speech rights were violated. It that were the case, they'd have a right to be upset.

They're also wrong.

Some people are upset by the taser incident; I can certainly understand that.

Furthermore, if you believe he was tasered for speaking freely, you're probably real upset.

[Fly by night]

103. I have watched the video. I have read Kerry's statements. I am aware of the punishment ...

... that the police received for overreacting to an obviously rude, obnoxious and somewhat out-of-control ego maniac (based on what I saw and have read).

Based on what I saw, and what Kerry said (at the time and afterward) and how the police authorities responded by punishing the officers involved, I am comfortable that a very distasteful incident, though regrettable, was a minor event -- not worthy of the fixations and hyperbole displayed on this thread and on DU over it. Unless, of course, the fixators want to spin this incident into an allegory for loss of civil liberty (folks, you still can't scream fire in a crowded theater, even in a free state) or of an encroaching fascist police state (in the real fascist police states, the police don't get suspended, the speaker doesn't ask for restraint and the self-important loud-mouth never gets heard from again). Or they just don't like John Kerry, perhaps not least because he beat the democratic crap out of the Smirking Chimp, their real (though unadmitted) leader.

Once around this tempest in a teapot was quite enough for me. But hey, OJ's back in the news so the folks who keep getting distracted by the shiny (and worthless) baubles that the media keep feeding us can go on being distracted and incensed -- and thereby, by their inaction, foster the furtherance of a real police state with no remaining civil liberties in this country. Mental masturbation over taser trivia is a lot less satisfying under those circumstances, believe me.

BTW, OJ's being held without bond (when all his co-defendants have been released) and he has had eight charges placed against him which some believe have more to do with his history and notoriety than with what actually happened in Las Vegas. Some really serious, really, really profound (civil liberties, police state) issues there also .... or maybe not. Maybe for those among us who watch Faux News and believe what they see there. (Faux deflects, their audience decides (what? -- to keep batting at the shiny bauble?))

For the rest of us, there is a country to save, that is still worth saving. We just don't have time for self-righteous spin about silly situations, particularly when the appropriate remedies have already been meted out (except for maybe requiring the loud-mouth to attend charm school). Peace out.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

139. I've heard the audio in the OJ case

It's pretty convincing that a crime may have taken place, which is why he was booked.

He was attempting to take by - by force - stuff that wasn't even his. He lost everything of value in the civil suit against him.

One more thing - OJ is being released on condition that he turns over his passport to his attorney. I didn't hear anything about bail.

As much as I thought he was guilty of murder, I hope this isn't a vendetta being played out against him. Oh, sure, I know some officials would like to get him, but in the end, if he's convicted, I hope he's convicted on solid evidence. And by the way, that tape goes a long way....

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

53. Cue Lee Greenwood's "Proud To Be An American"

While images of "Fan-Man" interrupting the Bowe-Holyfield fight, the streaker who ran out during David Niven's speech at the Oscars, and Andrew "Look Ma, Andy Warhol was right!!!" Meyers are shown.

[peacebaby3]

112. Don't forget the "Soy Bomb Dancer" during the performance by Bob Dylan!

He's my all-time favorite! He lasted through at least half the song and I think Dylan began to wonder if he might have been thrown in as a last minute addition to the performance. Dylan never missed a beat! The Soy Bomb Dancer explained the meaning of the writing on his chest as Soy = Life, Bomb = Explosion so he was just enjoying a "Life Explosion." Yep, he is definitely one of the best of all-time!

[johnnie]

58. .

:boring:

[goforit]

60. Allison, on K.Obermann's Countdown, should be fired!!!

Laughing with Rachel Maddow over the taser incident was as bad as committing the crime itself!!!

[durrrty libby]

63. yeah right...it is exactly the same

:crazy:

[Telly Savalas]

67. What about the free speech rights of the people in line he cut in front of?

Why do his rights supercede theirs?

[cherokeeprogressive]

71. Most of His Supporters Would Say Subject Matter. n/t

[subsuelo]

76. if that were true

It shows even more hypocrisy on the part of the police -- they allowed him to cut in line, but then decided to intervene when the wrong questions started coming out.

[Scout]

81. you are just too much ... look how much you've got your panties in a wad

already. if police had done something ridiculous like arrest him for cutting in line, i bet you'd just be apoplectic

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

if you weren't so funny, i'd have you on ignore already!

oh, and he didn't cut in line, he went to the other, open mic and interrupted the student who was asking what had been announced to be the last question!

[ShortnFiery]

88. Please don't lose heart. Standing up for jerks' civil rights is not easy.

Evidently in the Post 9/11 world, both jerks and terrorists forfeit their civil rights. :eyes:

It's no longer worth it. Some people will only learn only when THEIR personal civil rights are breeched. Yes, it's a tragedy. :(

Best regards :hug:

[subsuelo]

91. Thank you

We all forfeit our civil rights when we allow this to happen

[Cookie wookie]

84. If it was against the law to be a bore, jerk, idiot, or

publicity hog, would more people be in jail that out? Just food for thought.

If it was against the law to break in line, I'd be busy making citizens' arrests at the grocery store.
If it was against the law to bogart and disregard others to blah blah blah, I'd be making citizens arrests at some of the stupid meetings I have to attend at work.
Same goes for public gatherings where the mike seems to be a magnet for attention getters, bores, and self-centered p..icks.
However, it isn't against the law. And I'd better be glad, since I've done my share of blah blah blahing.

I might add that I have actually wondered what were the answers to the questions he asked and would have liked to hear a response. The skull and bones bit is tin hat, but it would have been interesting to hear an answer, if the police hadn't stopped it.

[Puglover]

100. If it were against the law

to be a bore,jerk or idiot DU's total membership would drop by about 50 percent.

[Dr. Strange]

140. Hey, if they cared so much about free speech,

why didn't they get themselves tasered?
Now bow your knee to the great Andrew Meyers.
He's an American hero! I know this, because he has a website! With pretty colors!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

70. All You Have To Do To Be An American Patriot These Days Is Be An Irrational Insane Asshole?

Wow! Who knew!

:rofl:

God some of you guys are just TOO MUCH!

:rofl:

[wildbilln864]

72. Damn right! K&R! n/t

[ShortnFiery]

82. Watch out! Some "law and order" above all else types evaluate him to be "an asshole"

And we all know that both "assholes and terrorists" (how our illustrious authority figures choose to define them) automatically forfeit their Civil Rights under our beloved Constitution. :sarcasm:

[ProSense]

83. A self-confessed heckler is a "true American Patriot"?

Now that's sad!

Besides removing someone who is being intentionally disruptive is not a free speech issue. You can't yell fire in a crowded theater even though you're free to do so.

What nonsense!



Edited to fix link

[Cookie wookie]

89. Here's what he said:

"Thank you for your time. Thank you for being open and honest. You recommended a book for us earlier, I want to recommend a book to you, it's called 'Armed Madhouse' by Greg Palast. He's the top investigative journalist in America, and he says you won the 2004 election. Isn't that amazing? Isn't that amazing? In fact, there were multiple reports on the day of the election of disenfranchisement of black voters in Florida

--here he's interrupted by a police officer --

and Ohio, I'll ask my question... I'm going to inform people and then I'm going to ask my question

-- voice of police officer --

He's been talking for 2 hours. so there were multiple reports of disenfranchisement of black voters on the day of the election in 2004. There was also voting machines, electronic voting machines in Volusia County Florida that tallied backwards, so amidst all these reports of phoney bogus stuff going on how could you concede the election....? How could you concede the 2004 election (on the day?)? And there were 5 million books that expressed that you won the election. Didn't you want to be president? I'm not even done yet (looking back at police). I have 2 more questions. If you are so against Iran, how come you're not saying, 'Let's impeach Bush now, impeach Bush now before he can invade Iran. Impeach for what, a blow job? Why don't we impeach him, impeach Bush? Also, are you a member of Skull and Bones.. were you in the same secret society, where you in Skull and Bones?

-- turning to police--

Thank you for cutting my mike, thank you.

---police move in --

Are you going to arrest me? Excuse me, what are you arresting me for? "

This isn't an exact transcript, but close enough. I think these are good questions. Are they "intentionally disruptive"? Maybe, but these seem like relevant questions. I've heard them plenty at DU.

[ProSense]

93. I watched the videos many times over, and read some in-person accounts

Ted Donaldson (Rollins) wrote
5 hours ago
"If you want to hear it from someone that was there:

The disturbance did not begin with Andrew asking the question. He caused quite a scene by bursting into the room in the middle of Q+A, rudely interrupting Kerry answering another question (what was supposed to be the last one), and demanding to be heard. The cops followed him in (I have the feeling he had been giving them a hard time outside as well)

John Kerry responded by asking him to calm down and wait his turn, that his question would be answered next.

As some of the videos show, his question was long and rambling without much focus, less of a question if you will than an outburst. John Kerry remained calm, tried to guide him to the direct question he would like answered, but Andrew continued. After Accent cut his mike off, the cops tried to guide him out and as you can all see the real event began.

I was sitting in the back row of the auditorium- less than 5 feet from where he was restrained and ended up being tasered. (you can see my green shirt next to my friend in the striped shirt on most of the videos) He WAS NOT handcuffed yet when they did it. He was still attempting to get up and resist the police officers and would not put his hands behind his back.

Within close range, I have to say that I didn't feel it was the safest situation. I did not feel like they had him under control at all- and was scared that if he did manage to get up- he would have started getting riled up again. I personally was in a location that if he had started flailing around again- I would have been at risk.

Now- my opinion- I think Andrew had intentions to be disruptive and was not going to leave peacefully. I am by no means a proponent of violence, but the way the UPD handled this situation was completely appropriate."

-Stephanie Sims, former UF College Democrats PresidentReply to Ted
Send Message
Report Ted
Post #2Erin Decker (UF) wrote
4 hours ago
Thank you for posting that. I was also at the forum and completely agree with that account of the incident. I also felt unsafe because Mr. Meyer was being excessively aggressive and violent. I am thankful that UPD was finally able to control the situation and think they acted properly.Reply to Erin
Send Message
Report Erin
Post #3Chris Agard (FIU) replied to Ted's post
3 hours ago
I'd like to also thank you. I wasn't as close to him, but agree that his actions were meant to disrupt, and make a scene. He deserved what he got and UPD did what they had to, and had they not handled it as professionally as they did, they wouldn't be doing ther jobs. Being that it was Sen. Kerry the police also had to act accordingly.

http://uwm.facebook.com/group.php?gid=4943984636

[subsuelo]

154. and ... ?

[TwilightZone]

85. Oh, please. The guy is a self-centered jerk looking for attention.

Eyewitness account: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3531319

[ShortnFiery]

87. Then for the love of all that is polite and for democracy, ZAP HIS ASS!!!

:rofl: Neither terrorists NOR self-centered jerks DESERVE *OUR* civil rights. ;)

[TwilightZone]

90. I'll take the word of eyewitnesses over the self-defined experts around here, thanks.

From the link I posted, that I'm pretty certain that you didn't read:

Within close range, I have to say that I didn't feel it was the safest situation. I did not feel like they had him under control at all- and was scared that if he did manage to get up- he would have started getting riled up again. I personally was in a location that if he had started flailing around again- I would have been at risk.

Now- my opinion- I think Andrew had intentions to be disruptive and was not going to leave peacefully. I am by no means a proponent of violence, but the way the UPD handled this situation was completely appropriate."

[Bluebear]

97. Here, you can be an eyewitness too :)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=V8ndctwAJmU&mode=related&search=

[sleipnir]

101. Would you have Washington, Jefferson or maybe John Adams tasered as well?

Just because someone is looking for attention, doesn't mean that they aren't trying to force change in the best interests of the country.

He may well be a jerk, but that doesn't give the police the right to potentially kill him with a taser.

Let's just throw the first amendment under the bus at this rate.

[TwilightZone]

110. Ah, yes, he's right up there with the Founding Fathers.

That might be the most unintentionally hilarious thing I've read about the whole incident.

Next up, is Andrew really a god?

[mondo joe]

129. Washington, Jefferson and Adams took their chances by becoming enemies of

Britain. They didn't whine about it.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

92. Rosa Parks isn't fit to shine his shoes!

:sarcasm:

[Marrah_G]

106. Watch out for lightnening strikes

I'm pretty sure that's blasphemous even when joking!!!!

:bounce:

[karlrschneider]

98. Good grief...

:eyes:

[Stuckinthebush]

102. Jesus Christ in pawn shop! This is getting nuts

True American hero? Really? Really?

I need to find a wall to beat my head against...be right back.

[truebrit71]

108. Fuck that noise....he was spoiling for a fight and got zapped for it...

...the 'kid' is a fucking tool....so are they cops...but their actions don't nullify the 'kid's' actions either...

[WildEyedLiberal]

109. I hope the next time someone actually flings a bag of flaming poo at a protest

I mean if being a violent disruptive attention whore makes you a REAL AMERICAN HERO then just imagine what throwing a FLAMING BAG OF DOG POO will do! MY GOD - whoever has the COURAGE to do that will be THE NEXT MARTIN LUTHER KING.

:patriot:

[subsuelo]

122. flinging a bag a flaming poo would more likely warrant arrest

speaking for longer than the 1 minute allotment does not warrant violence from the police.

These concepts are really not that difficult to understand.

[WildEyedLiberal]

125. No but violent erratic screaming and throwing punches at cops does.

You trivialize the word "hero" by granting it to this shitbag.

[2rth2pwr]

111. Am I the only one to find the OP

just a little bit ironic? Chavez and the celebration of free speech; they go together like milk and cookies.

[subsuelo]

113. oh please

I might suggest not limiting your daily news intake to U.S. run media only.

The only thing Chavez did was not renew a 20 year license for a channel that had a history of extreme CIA-backed propaganda against Chavez, including active involvement in leading a coup against the Chavez government. People crying about "free speech" in the case of RCTV have no clue what they're talking about.

RCTV's license expired. They are still free to broadcast via satellite, just not through government programming. It's not a free speech issue.

[2rth2pwr]

114. These are laws enacted by Chavez and his legislature

Start with Article 147: "Anyone who offends with his words or in writing or in any other way disrespects the President of the Republic or whomever is fulfilling his duties will be punished with prison of 6 to 30 months if the offense is serious and half of that if it is light." That sanction, the code implies, applies to those who "disrespect" the president or his functionaries in private; "the term will be increased by a third if the offense is made publicly."

There's more: Article 444 says that comments that "expose another person to contempt or public hatred" can bring a prison sentence of one to three years; Article 297a says that someone who "causes public panic or anxiety" with inaccurate reports can receive five years. Prosecutors are authorized to track down allegedly criminal inaccuracies not only in newspapers and electronic media, but also in e-mail and telephone communications.

The new code reserves the toughest sanctions for journalists or others who receive foreign funding, such as the election monitoring group Sumate, which has been funded in part by the National Endowment for Democracy. Venezuelans or foreigners living in the country can be punished with a 10- to 15-year sentence for receiving foreign support that "can prejudice the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela . . . or destabilize the social order," whatever that means. Persons accused of conspiring against the government with a foreign country can get 20 to 30 years in prison. The new code specifies that anyone charged with these crimes will not be entitled to legal due process. In other words, should Izarra determine that my Caracas-based colleagues continue to collude with the State Department against Venezuela, they could be summarily jailed. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5755-2005Mar27.html

[subsuelo]

119. And these are U.S. laws

Title 18 - U.S. Code, Section 871

Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail or for a delivery from any post office or by any letter carrier any letter, paper, writing, print, missive, or document containing any threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon the President of the United States, the President-elect, the Vice President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President of the United States, or the Vice President-elect, or knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the President, President-elect, Vice President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President, or Vice President-elect, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000871----000-.html

[2rth2pwr]

117. and don't forget this

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8RNB2BG1&show_article=1

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez threatened on Monday to close or take over any private school that refuses to submit to the oversight of his socialist government as it develops a new curriculum and textbooks.

“Society cannot allow the private sector to do whatever it wants,” said Chavez, speaking on the first day of classes.

All schools, public and private, must admit state inspectors and submit to the government’s new educational system, or be closed and nationalized, with the state taking responsibility for the education of their children, Chavez said.

A new curriculum will be ready by the end of this school year, and new textbooks are being developed to help educate “the new citizen,” said Chavez’s brother and education minister Adan Chavez…

[subsuelo]

118. Society cannot allow the private sector to do whatever it wants

You disagree with that?

[dailykoff]

121. Uh, the swiftboaters were also "true American patriots."

So I guess you're right.

[nini]

123. I'm gonna call the pope - he's a SAINT

what crap.. he got the fucking attention he set out to get. His plan worked perfectly.

[dailykoff]

124. No he's a GOD! A living breathing incarnation!

It's a miracle!

[nini]

128. hehe

:rofl:

[OzarkDem]

135. He called media attention

to some very important issues like impeachment and the stolen 2004 elections, something most Dems have been unable to do.

I'm willing to bet a lot more people will be reading Palast's book after this. And that is not a bad thing.

[nini]

137. Anyone that gives a shit already knows about Palast's book

everyone else just sees an out of control liberal and reinforces their own narrow view of those who disagree with them. The point being - what he said was preaching to the choir - what he did was attention whoring and he crossed a line of common sense when he resisted arrest.

[zulchzulu]

130. God Bless Clueless Automatons praising sophmoric demogogues

Meyer is an ass.

There's enough evidence that he's a self-serving swine who thinks butting in line and spattering rhetorical questions to Kerry and then feigning innocence is his right and privilege.

This video nails it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCtprxHFgM0

[subsuelo]

133. so being a self serving ass warrants police violence?

Nice justification for fascist police state

[zulchzulu]

134. So butting in line and commandeering a Q/A and then fighting cops is OK?

If you describe "self-serving" as resisting arrest with violence, then perhaps you need a little more life experience. I've been in protest rallies and actions and know that you don't take it that far without getting your head knocked around.

As soon as he started flailing his arms at the police, it's was GAME OVER.

Sorry, but in just about ANY society on this planet, that's how it goes. Any numbnutted knucklehead knows that. He obviously needed to learn a basic lesson: don't flail your arms when you know you are getting arrested or wrestle the police when they are trying to take you down. Gee, guess what happens.

It's amateurish to think that some punk who was already being watched for screaming outside the hall and then makes a scene butting in line to blabber "questions" at someone on stage shouldn't expect to get hog-tied. There is freedom of expression and then there's making an ass out of yourself. The guy was a self-absorbed poseur. Not a hero.

I think the police did their job. I also think that some people who think Kerry should have joined in to stop don't know what's at stake.

I praise those that can do an action and NOT get busted. They're the ones to perhaps look at.

[subsuelo]

142. the cops could have just pulled the mic

and left it at that.

Instead they began a forceful removal, which was completely unnecessary.

Kid is armed with a book and a loud mouth. Wow, what a threat. What a menace to society. Better carry him away and teach him a lesson! That'll teach kids to read books and voice an opinion.

[AtomicKitten]

138. Activism means getting in people's faces.

Sometimes decorum and activism are at odds, but stepping up and challenging our leaders is an important process in a democracy. Most of all, the preservation of free speech is critical to the wellbeing of this country.

[Throd]

141. Thats great if you agree with the activist

Otherwise that person is just a screechy asshole at best.

[AtomicKitten]

143. Content is not criteria for free speech.

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."

* Noam Chomsky

[subsuelo]

144. great quote

It is really not that difficult to understand

[AtomicKitten]

145. It appears people are choosing up sides rather than --

supporting the broader issue of free speech.

You can't just support free speech when you agree with it. The real test of supporting free speech is the ability to grit your teeth and tolerate POVs you don't want to hear.

[Marrah_G]

153. But he isn't an activist

He just likes causing problems to gain noteriety. This kid is an attention hound and not an activist.