IOWA! What the hell is your problem?

[lonestarnot]

Congressman Kucinich, (D-OH), was not invited to Sunday's Democratic Steak Fry in Indianola, nor to a Democratic Presidential Forum Thursday in Davenport. Representatives of both events have falsely claimed that Kucinich does not have a sufficiently "active organization" in Iowa.

[Freddie Stubbs]

1. Kucinich is the problem

He has neglected to hire any staff nor open an office in Iowa. If he won't take Iowa seriously, why should Iowa take him seriously?

[lonestarnot]

3. You are full of crap! Did you read the post?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

9. OK...

What is the address of Kucinich's Iowa HQ? The only information I can find on any Kucinich organization in Iowa is from the 2004 election. The only states for which he has contact information on his own site are Louisiana, Maine, and Minnesota.

[lonestarnot]

12. Here is the rest of what he said. Maybe you will find your answer here.

DES MOINES, IA – Democratic Presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich said Iowa Democratic Party leaders and other groups aligned with the entrenched political power structure are "rigging the game in Iowa" by excluding him from two Presidential events this week.

"The whole purpose of the primary and caucus season is to provide voters with opportunities, not to enable a carnival of interest groups to subvert the process," Kucinich said. "When Party leaders and their allies pre-select which candidates they will allow the voters to hear, it's a disservice to the voters. Iowans deserve better than a rigged game."

Congressman Kucinich, (D-OH), was not invited to Sunday's Democratic Steak Fry in Indianola, nor to a Democratic Presidential Forum Thursday in Davenport. Representatives of both events have falsely claimed that Kucinich does not have a sufficiently "active organization" in Iowa.

However, statewide and national polls consistently show Kucinich running ahead of Senators Joe Biden and Christopher Dodd, who were invited to participate. A recent American Research Group poll in Iowa showed Kucinich getting 3% of the vote, ahead of Biden and Dodd, who were at the bottom with 1% each. In the Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg Poll in Iowa two weeks ago, Kucinich and Biden were both at 2% and Dodd was at 1%.

In the most recent CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll, Kucinich was at 3% nationally, Biden was at 2%, and Dodd was below 1%. Another national poll, Rasmussen Reports, showed Kucinich tied with New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson in fourth place, behind Senators Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, and former Senator John Edwards. Richardson was also invited to participate in the Iowa events. Kucinich also won a post-debate poll on ABC's website after the last Iowa debate.

"We're doing better than some of the establishment candidates, and we're moving up," Kucinich said. "Instead of spending millions of dollars on high-priced consultants, and slick advertising, we have a highly motivated grassroots organization."

He also questioned the decision by the American Association of Retired Persons (AARP) Iowa Public Television to exclude him from Thursday's Democratic Presidential Forum, which will focus on the issues of health care and financial security.

"The Presidential debate on health care has been largely fake, with phony claims from candidates that they are providing ‘universal health care’ when, in fact, they are preserving the for-profit system of private insurance companies who make money not providing health care," Kucinich said.

"I am the only Presidential candidate to offer a true universal healthcare plan for America, HR676, Medicare for All. It is a comprehensive, not-for-profit, national health insurance plan, and everyone is covered," Kucinich said. "No premiums, no deductibles, no co-payments."

"How can AARP and Iowa Public Television claim they are committed to educating and informing the voters of Iowa on the Number One domestic issue in this campaign when they deny a voice to the only candidate who is leading the effort to bring real reform to the health care system by ending the control of for-profit insurance and pharmaceutical companies? Since the AARP's own insurance sales interests would be affected by HR 676, serious questions must be raised about their decision to deny me a place on the platform," Kucinich said.

In one highly publicized incident in July, unaware that their microphones were still on and the cameras were still rolling, Clinton and Edwards whispered to each other on stage about eliminating some candidates from future debates. "It is most interesting," Kucinich noted, "that a number of post-debate analyses determined that I performed better than all the other candidates (AFL-CIO, ABC, Howard University, Logo Forum). I can well understand why the other candidates do not want competition, but the credibility of the Democratic process is at risk if sponsoring organizations join in the subversion of that process."

"You would think that the Iowa Democratic Party leaders, fighting to preserve the state’s status as the first caucus state, would be a little more careful about giving other states the impression that they and they alone have the right to determine who the next President will be." Kucinich said.

[Radical Activist]

56. What's the number for his Iowa office?

Since this is all bullshit, according to you.

[lonestarnot]

13. Money it's all money. You voting for a headquarter or a candidate?

[MuseRider]

15. Bam!

That is it. We want anti corporate candidates, we want candidates for us the American people and not the ultra rich. So, we have one. He does not have to money to be all slick and has not the money for the big operations in the states like the others. Here he is, doing what we all want and this is what happens and he gets blasted here where we discuss these things seriously. NOBODY catches this. Nobody wants to. We like the slick candidates, they are pretty and have big offices. :shrug:

[lonestarnot]

17. WTF is wit dis? People get on the stupid bus way too often for my liking.

:hug:

[MuseRider]

26. Too true.

:hug: back!

He can't seem to get a break either way he goes. Can you imagine what would be said of him if he turned around and started all the crap that the others do? Holy hell, it would be something to see. I was talking with a nurse last night (my husband is in the hospital) who is a young man who works grassroots for the Dems here in Kansas. He has another candidate in mind but he loves K. He also brought this up, the snub in Iowa, and told me that the Dems here were really pissed about this. Even though nobody particularly cares about what Kansas thinks and our Dem party is waaaay to moderate for me it says something.

Off to the hospital. I TOLD him not to eat that thing! ;)

[lonestarnot]

31. LOL!

:toast: Hope your husband is going to be alright.

[MuseRider]

34. What is a little e coli

now and again? Shoot, just a short trip costing, oh I would say a bazillion dollars. LOL, he will be fine but he told me yesterday very sheepishly that he will listen the next time I tell him not to eat chicken that has been sitting in his car for 4 hours. He brought it for me and I turned it down. He just had to prove something :).

Poor guy will be fine but he is not feeling very well. Morphine helps though and I am busy prying all his secrets out while he goes in and out. I should get a job with Bush**. I am one hell of an interrogator!

BTW, I AM just joking.

[Freddie Stubbs]

37. Big offices? He doesn't even have a small one in Iowa

Nor does he have any staff there. It appears that he is running the same kind of campaign as he did last time. How well did that work out?

[brooklynite]

102. So you're saying that the other six candidates are all "corporate"...

...and thus acceptable to the "special interests". If not, then that's not the reason Kucinich was excluded.

[Debi]

163. That's the meme -

If you don't support DK then you support corporate whores who hate middle income Americans. :eyes:

I can't believe those are the campaign's talking points - at least I hope I don't receive a flyer in the mail with that on it. Oh, forget that, I won't. Dennis Kucinich isn't campaigning in Iowa.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

22. Dude.

You are the one accusing people of being "full of crap" for stating that he doesn't have a campaign organization in Iowa.

[lonestarnot]

29. No they are full of crap for not allowing him a voice due to lack of funds.

Campaign organization takes fucking money. You miss the point.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

33. He had an organization in Iowa for 2004.

He has one in Maine. He has one in Louisiana. Why not Iowa?

[Freddie Stubbs]

45. And Kucinich has raised money. But he has chosen to spend it elsewhere

He has been to Florida twice, was in Hawaii last weekend and even spent campaign cash to travel to Syria. Perhaps Bashar al-Asad will invite him to a falafel fry.

[Debi]

92. He's been to Florida 14 times - CA 36 and Hawaii once -

and he's campaigned in New Hampshire 22 times.

[youthere]

185. Not lack of funds...Lack of an official campaign in Iowa.

[Freddie Stubbs]

18. I did. What evidence is there that Kucinich has any campaign organization in Iowa?

:shrug:

[lonestarnot]

32. Money money money. Send some.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

35. You're off your nut.

You just told this person that they are "full of crap" upthread, and now you're begging for money? I'm not going to accuse you of being representative of the Kucinich people, because I know you aren't, but this is no way to promote your candidate, mkay?

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[youthere]

60. EXACTLY.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

73. What would you do for fun if you didn't have Kucinich to kick around?

:eyes:

(Or, at other times, any candidate who isn't one of those officially approved by the MSM?)

[TechBear_Seattle]

2. Outright lies. The party has already picked their candidate, primaries be damned

The Democratic "leadership" do not want Kucinich. Therefore he is an uncandidate, end of story.

[nancyr]

4. Unfortunately, I think you're correct.

Why even go through the charade of primaries. Hilary has been ordained from the start.

[youthere]

61. Bullshit.

For one thing, we do not have primaries in Iowa...we are a caucus state.
And Hilary has not been "ordained"...just because she is the media darling.

[Frustratedlady]

5. The people haven't, and that is what counts.

Iowans don't choose their candidate until the final weeks or days.

Don't blame Iowans for Kucinich's no-show, as most would have welcomed him, I'm sure. In fact, I've wanted to meet and listen to him, but he hasn't been around.

[lonestarnot]

10. Did you send him money. Takes money to go places.

[Debi]

95. Like Hawaii

:eyes:

[youthere]

113. and Syria.

[youthere]

114. and Florida.

[Freddie Stubbs]

20. Which candidate did the party pick?

:shrug:

[lonestarnot]

21. They have a couple left. LOL

[Romulox]

6. Iowa needs to go first so all the small $$$ candidates have a chance!

:sarcasm:

That is the tune the Iowa Uber Alles crowd was singing last week.

So much for that argument! :nuke:

[lonestarnot]

7. What crap IOWA! What crap!

[Benhurst]

11. If Iowa is not a forum for ALL our candidates, then it should no longer

have a monopoly on being first.

[cyberswede]

8. DK does have less active campaign in IA

I love Dennis. I caucused for Dennis in 2004 (he missed being viable by about 4% points). :(

However, I receive 3-4 phone calls a week from the presidential campaigns (even Dodd) and I've never received a call from the DK campaign. We have staffers from most candidates at our monthly central committee meetings, but never anyone representing DK. I've even had Obama and Edwards staff come door-knocking to my house (in our town of 3500 people), but nothing from the DK campaign.

I realize it's expensive to have staffers on the ground, but I think it does make a difference to DK's visibility in the state. It's unfortunate, but if organizations choose to invite candidates who have a more active presence in our state, that should be their choice to do so.

thx - cs

[lonestarnot]

14. Nope that is bullshit! He is a candidate, whether he is monied or not!

The not rich aspect is one of the aspects I like about him.

[Freddie Stubbs]

16. He has money to fly to Hawaii, but no money for a campaign organizaion in Iowa?

:shrug:

[lonestarnot]

19. Don't have his checkbook in front of me sorry. Maybe he was on a honeymoon.

[Freddie Stubbs]

39. A honeymoon his campaign paid for?

:shrug:

[Radical Activist]

57. Better than putting a new girlfriend on staff

after meeting her at a campaign event, like he did in '03.

[redqueen]

149. What?

[Debi]

153. It may have been a honeymoon, but he told the press it was a campaign trip

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2008-presidential-candidates/tracker/candidates/dennis-kucinich/states/hi/

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Sep/13/br/br8752160943.html

[Romulox]

28. I think Iowans should turn DK over and see if any change falls out of his pockets

After all, money is the measure of a man!

:sarcasm:

[Freddie Stubbs]

41. Money is a measure of his ability to convince people that his campaign is viable

Apperently not many people are convinced.

[me b zola]

46. So why does DK worry you so much?

:shrug:

[Freddie Stubbs]

48. He doesn't worry me. I find him an amusing curiosity

[Radical Activist]

58. He worries me because he damages the progressive movement.

His incompetence as a candidate gives the impression that he does poorly because of his liberal views. It reinforces those who claim that progressive issues make someone unelectable. Dennis should step aside and let another progressive candidate carry the banner, since Dennis is apparently unwilling or unable to run a serious campaign.

[Romulox]

146. Don't worry. You'll get your "progressive" candidate: Hillary Clinton

Keep on telling us how "progressive" it is to exclude unpopular P.O.V.s.

[Romulox]

145. But we are told that Iowa is so important because it takes IDEAS not MONEY to win...

Turns out that it's simply not true. Iowa just a convenient place for party insiders to begin to winnow the field.

[MuseRider]

30. Here we go.

This is something I have seen before, must be the essential talking point. Dennis Kucinich, donate and he will spend your hard earned money going on fancy trips and vacations. Nope, sorry that does not fly but good try. I wonder how many more times I will see this one.

[Freddie Stubbs]

42. Kucinich's whining about not being treated like the serious candidates is what isn't flying

He tried that crybaby routine last time and it got him nowhere.

[bluedog]

43. is this just to get him attention?

I've seen this happen before..........when he couldn't get media attention or that some people were trying to keep him out of debates..

seems to me .he whines alot..........if he were serious about this...he should have had an office in Iowa.and saved his money by not traveling to the middle east.......and exactly what did that accomplish?


Stand proud Iowa.........some people piss and moan about everything.......and its not your fault........put the blame where ir belongs!

[youthere]

64. Not to mention his deliberate twisting of the facts will not win him more support among Iowans.

[hedgehog]

237. A round trip ticket, Washington to Honolulu and back, runs about $485- $621

That wouldn't go far in hiring staff and renting an office or even getting a phone line for 6 months!

[cyberswede]

23. I haven't seen much of DK

What I meant to get across is that DK hasn't campaigned much in the state. Whether he has money or not, he simply hasn't been around that much. When Jimmy Carter ran for president, his campaign had so little $ that he and his staff stayed in people's houses rather than hotels - he was in Iowa speaking to Iowans. Unfortunately, DK just hasn't had the presence here he should have. (He did rock the house at a labor event back in August - that was great!)

I wish DK *did* have more of a presence in Iowa. I wish I would receive phone calls from his staff telling me about events for DK that are taking place near my town - or events where his staff would be present for questions, if DK wouldn't actually be there. I wish people would door-knock and leave DK literature all over my town, so people could get better acquainted with his positions. Unfortunately, none of those things are happening. Those things *are* happening with other campaigns.

Finally, I'm not even sure who made the decision on who to invite to the Davenport forum - it's sponsored by the AARP, not the Iowa Democratic Party, so maybe they're the ones who decided who to invite. I have no idea if the Steak Fry was run by the IDP or the Harkin people. Gravel wasn't invited either.

thx - cs

[lonestarnot]

27. takes money to hire staff, send some.

[Freddie Stubbs]

75. Maybe most donors don't think that is a wise investment

What has he done with the money he has already raised? Flying to Syria can't be cheap.

[Freddie Stubbs]

44. He may say that he is a candidate, but until he starst acting like one people will not

take him seriously.

[lonestarnot]

49. Money money money.

Has nothing to do with Dennis' actions or inactions!

[Radical Activist]

54. Real Presidential candidates pick up the phone and call major donors.

We have a progressive in the race named Obama who is willing to do the hard and unpleasant work of fundraising and he's doing it well. The fact that Dennis doesn't like fundraising (or just isn't very good at it) has nothing to do with how liberal he is. There are lots of liberals who raise more money than Dennis because they WORK at it.

A lot of candidates don't like to make fundraising calls but if you aren't willing to do that then you shouldn't run for President. Its part of the job.

[Freddie Stubbs]

67. Dean raised a ton of money last time through small donors

[hootinholler]

253. Look at who the major donors to the big fundraisers are.

I can't because of that puking thing.

-Hoot

[Freddie Stubbs]

69. So, it is just bad luck that Kucinich can't convince people to donate to his campaign

:shrug:

[Debi]

100. He refuses to campaigning Iowa, he refuses to hire staff in Iowa, he refuses to have a headquarters

in Iowa - but we should caucus for him w/out meeting w/him, hearing him out, w/out asking him question and getting any answers?

He didn't have any money in 2004 but - through volunteers and people providing him places to use to make phone calls and hold events - he was in Iowa and campaigned here AND was viable in some of the precincts.

But not in 2008 - he ignores Iowa - and it's not because of a lack of funds - he could afford to come to Iowa - he just won't.

He WILL however, campaign in California, Florida, Hawaii even New Hampshire (and open a campaign headquarters in Nevada).

You can say money, money, money and I'll say organize, organize, organize - he can't have an organization without coming here and creating one. Don't blame Iowa for Kucinich NOT campaigning here, blame Kucinich.

[TornadoTN]

106. Precisley - and exactly what the Kucinich cult won't acknowledge

Throwing facts out about how Dennis chases the money to send himself to destination that aren't critical at this stage of the campaign won't change the cult of personality that he has here.

Dennis is no leader, he is merely chasing the spotlight.

[rurallib]

36. Iowa and Iowans did not make this decision

The folks running the Harkin event made these decisions based on criteria that they developed for whatever reason. Mike Gravel was not invited either, yet I see no outrage about that. I would be willing to bet that Kucinich has not attended open events in other early states such as NH and South Carolina for similar reasons.
As an Iowan, I have no say in how Harkin runs his event. I doubt that others who are condemning us have much say in how their senators set up their events either. I believe the steak fry is a fundraiser and as such those holding it can invite who they want.

Let me add that as an Iowan I am getting rather pissed about these bash Iowa threads. We are hardly backwater cretin hicks. Iowa Minnesota and Wisconsin were once the very heart and soul of the progressive movement in this country with leaders like Henry Wallace, John Culver, Harold Hughes and now the apparently reviled Tom Harkin who is one of the most liberal members of the senate.
Please quit sending your vile to IOWANS. If you want to bitch, call Harkin's office. It was his event.

Kucinich's campaign knew the rules. He chose for whatever reason not to follow them. His campaign in Iowa as far as I know (and I am very active) is non-existent. A friend of mine has started a chat room for Kucinich. That is about all the activity I know of.

[Benhurst]

38. Gravel not invited?

:argh:

How's that for rage?

[lonestarnot]

52. That is another pisser!

:argh: Neither is gravelbot!

[youthere]

66. Here here! This shit is getting old.

[Enrique]

24. why invite a vegan to a steak fry?

:-)

[lonestarnot]

25. Dennis BHOF

[Enrique]

65. Baseball Hall of Fame?

Bronx House of Faith?

You're going to have to help me, Google apparently doesn't have the answer for this one.

[Benhurst]

40. Several years ago, the buzz was that money was corrupting the political process.

Now even progressive campaign groupies boast about the vast sums of money their candidate has raised as proof-positive of his/her suitability for office.

Isn't progress wonderful!

BushAmerica: Can it get any better?

:patriot:

[Broke Dad]

51. No Dennis you cannot eat steak unless you help with chores!

I supported Dennis in 2004 before deciding to caucus for Dean. I went to a lot of Kucinch events in 2004. Dennis was actively campaigning here.

In 2007, I have not gotten one invite to a Kucinich event. He simply has not been campaigning in Iowa this cycle.

How can you blow off the first state in the 2008 selection process and claim to be a viable candidate?


From my perspective, Harkin made the right call. If Dennis does not want to meet the people of Iowa in 2008, then he shouldn't get to attend the glitzy events either.

[lonestarnot]

53. More fucking crap.

Dennis is a Vegan. :)

[Broke Dad]

62. I attended a couple of vegan events with Dennis in 2003 . . .

So other than calling me/us names, what proof do you have that Dennis is really seeking the presidency (translation - holding public events) in the early states other than New Hampshire? Can you post a schedule for Dennis from either Iowa or South Carolina for 2007 for me?

Iowa is not that far from Ohio. Easily reached by car. If a campaign is low on money, we have lots of activists who could shuttle Dennis around at no cost to his campaign (as they did in 2003). Dennis could campaign in Iowa at minimal cost. He has simply chosen to blow off Iowa except for the televised events.

If you are going to rant, back it up with proof that Dennis is doing anything but extending his 15 minutes of fame from 2004!

[youthere]

71. Precisely..Show us something besides Dennis' whining and

twisted recollection of the facts. He has money to fly to Hawaii, and the Florida and even to Syria, but do you mean to tell me he can't even afford a second phone line in a volunteer's home as a contact point? I have yet to receive a SINGLE call or mailing from one of his "grass-roots" volunteers.

[bluedog]

78. did he ask his backers for $$ for Hawaii trip?

I read that he did ..

oh here it is

""Elizabeth and I have been married for a total of 730 days. We want 730 of our supporters to contribute $25, $100, or $250 to our campaign by the end of the week. Our goal is to raise $50,000 on the fundamental premise of Love. Your donation will help continue our momentum our campaign has built over the past several weeks, and spread our message love, strength, and peace to the voters."""


http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2007/08/kucinich_turns_wedding_anniver.html


*******is this a joke or Hit Piece on Him?...........his supporters will know....if this ia true or not....

[Debi]

104. I can't believe that his supporters aren't more pissed about this crap than

his not getting an invite to the steak fry. What kind of a candidate asks supporters to pay for a vacation for his wife in the middle of a campaign? Who gives money to see a candidate ignore the first contest in the primary process so he can go to California 36 times (since January?) and Florida 14 times? He and his wife seem to be on a one-year honeymoon paid for by campaign contributions and he's just calling a presidential campaign.

While here in Iowa we're told to go to his website to get the answers to the questions we have - b/c Dennis won't come here.

[CitizenLeft]

105. just guessing that it's true...

that site, cleveland.com, is affiliated with the Cleveland Plain Dealer (if you're questioning the validity of the site - not sure by your post). As to the truth of it, I couldn't say, but pretty sure it's not a joke.

[Freddie Stubbs]

72. He had money to travel to Hawaii and Syria

[Radical Activist]

70. I'm tired of backing martyrs

who blame their losses on the system instead of their own lack of ability to organize.

The fact that Obama is a competent candidate who is good at raising money makes him a winner, not a sell out.

[Benhurst]

74. By that standard, Gerorge W. Bush was really a winner.

[Radical Activist]

76. Yes, he won the Republican primary and became President.

Is there something wrong with having a progressive who can actually win the election? Is that not righteous enough for you?

[Benhurst]

81. No, if he or she can remain progressive after being bought and sold.

But like it or not, the process compromises political candidates. It's not a question of if they are compromised, it's a matter of how much.

And Bush's "successful" bid for the nomination illustrates just how corrupt the system is. In the Republican primary debates of 2000, even Dan Quayle mopped up the floor with him. But Bush was undoubtedly the best candidate money could buy, a true tribute to what the American political process has become.

[Radical Activist]

97. So any Democrat that wins isn't good enough for you?

That's exactly the attitude I'm sick of. I want to win an election with a progressive for once.

[Benhurst]

126. A progressive Democrat would be good enough for me. One who

caters to the insurance companies, the banks and big business while pretending to be a progressive would not.

It's too bad the money and effort poured into a far too extended primary process wasn't directed at insuring honest elections.

And if we can't get the obscene amounts spent out of our primary contests, there is little hope for progressive reforms to clean up our general elections, and we shall continue to have the best candidates money, and only vast sums of it at that, can buy: congressmen, senators and presidents beholden to those who bought their positions for them.

In any event, the corruption underlying the last two presidential elections has not been eliminated, and 2008 will in all likelihood be the third presidential election to be stolen by the Republicans. And when it is, the corporate news whores will be intoning that "the country wasn't ready for a woman or, as the case may be, wasn't ready for an African American president." Bullshit. But when the final "votes" are "tallied," it won't matter. "Hail to the Chief!" whether fairly elected or not.

[hedgehog]

239. There's money and then there' s money

A million dollars bundled from a group of 250 industry executives doesn't equal a million dollars raised from 40,000 individuals.

[ShaneGR]

50. He's been campaigning in Iowas for what, 6 years? And still less than 5%?

I mean seriously, he's not a serious candidate to win there. And it's there event, they can choose to invite whoever they want.

[lonestarnot]

55. spell check much?

[Radical Activist]

63. But he'll rise in the polls after people hear his message!

At least that is what he has been telling us for the last four years.

[youthere]

68. Well the message a lot of Iowans are hearing is that he can't be bothered to campaign here.

[mmonk]

116. Others polling less were invited.

[youthere]

132. Yes..because they had offices and active campaigns here.

in other words: they met the requirements set forth by the Harkin people for the event sponsored by....wait for it...Harkin.

[mmonk]

165. I can handle only one excuse at a time.

[youthere]

59. Oh GOODY! MORE Iowa Bashing..

We haven't had NEARLY enough of THOSE threads lately.

FIRST:
This was an event sponsored by Tom Harkin (Hint: It's called the Tom Harkin Annual Steak Fry...NOT the Iowa Democratic Steak Fry). The party has no control over who Harkin invites. You got an issue with that? Call Harkin and bitch but DO NOT start bashing the party in this state or its residents.

SECOND: The rules have been in place for years and they state that to be invited you must have an office in Iowa. It was not a "new rule" or even a surprise rule. Kucinich has known of the requirement FOR YEARS and still chose not to have an office here. Gravel was also not a part of the event...funny how no one seems to be the slightest bit upset.



:nuke:

[Cleita]

79. Kucinich doesn't have the gobs of money the other candidates

have to set up offices everywhere. That's because he's running an honest campaign, taking money only from those supporters he is on the same page with, unlike the other candidates who are taking gobs of corporate donations.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

83. Everybody understands the point he is trying to prove.

...or that he wishes to appear to be trying to prove (it's hard to tell.) I think the argument of most people here is that, by virtue of his actions (or lack thereof) he has done an extremely poor job of making the point.

As has been said before in this thread, it's not that he didn't spend gobs of money in Iowa - it's that he appears to have spent no money at all.

[Cleita]

86. So that's how a candidate gets an equal voice, spending money?

What I saw at the steak fry was candidates given equal time, not just in Iowa, but ON NATIONAL TV, to state their positions. Missing were two of the candidates whose voices went unheard ON NATIONAL TV. Iowa is not all of America, but you would think so watching that event. If it had been an event limited to be seen in Iowa alone it would have been more understandable.

[youthere]

89. And Kucinich was aware of the requirements WELL in advance...

if it was so important for him to be heard on NATIONAL TV you think he would have planned a little better rather than whining about it after the fact. Doesn't give me much confidence in his abilities to perform as commander in chief.

[Cleita]

98. This is more reason why I resent Iowa being in a position to

preselect my candidate. I hope Arnold gets early primaries in California. It's the only thing he's done that I agree with. When you see all the West Coast Democratic votes going for either Edwards or Kucinich, Iowa isn't going to matter much anymore. I'm not bashing Iowa, but factually your state basically has one geography and one climate. We have such a variety of geography and climates that our needs are very different that yours, yet you are able to determine who is going into the White House, usually a person who has little awareness of our needs but who like the money we send to Washington to give to all you little Middle America states, money that you need to survive. I know you are positioning Clinto or Obama for the grand slam. I hope this time West Coasters can speak up and beat you guys to the punch.

[youthere]

123. We determine who goes to the whitehouse?

ALL HAIL THE GREAT AND POWERFUL IOWA!

[Cleita]

133. You sure ended Howard Dean's campaign.

I found myself working for Kerry instead of Dean after our primary. Most of the people I canvassed told me that they really wanted Dean but voted otherwise because they felt he didn't have a chance after Iowa. Yes, you do have the power and probably still will because your primary is January 14, ahead of most of the primaries that will be in February.

[youthere]

137. Iowa killed him, huh?

Couldn't have been New Hampshire or Wisconsin, huh? Or maybe the media's constant overplaying of the ever famous "scream". Couldn't have been the fact that Kerry and Edwards went on full court press the last two weeks before the caucus. It couldn't have been that the Dean campaign got distracted because they were polling first leading up to the caucus...it HAD to be the awful, evil all powerful IOWANS plotting to destroy Howard Dean. Yup..makes perfect sense to me. :eyes: You really seem to have a bug up your arse about Iowa. Shame really.

[Cleita]

142. Uh, didn't the Dean scream happen in Iowa?

I don't have a bug about Iowa per se but about Middle America turning the course of politics for their benefit. Yet we on the West Coast and East Coast are the ones that fill the tax coffers with money that is distributed to Middle America for all kinds of government projects and programs. You guys don't mind taking the money either because you wouldn't survive otherwise.

It's time for those of us who are earning the money to be able to have some kind of say in our elected executive officers and that means that our candidates deserve to have equal time no matter where they show up. Now Dennis et al should have gotten an invite. If they chose not to show up then that would be a whole different thing altogether and he may not have shown up if what you say is true, that he's ignoring Iowa.

[Debi]

147. Are you implying that the west coast should secede from the Union?

That way your tax dollars will only provide from your needs? I don't think that's the argument you are trying to make, but it sure comes out that way.

If 'The Scream' had happened in Sacramento would Dean's campaign have survived longer? Would the MSM have left him alone if he'd stumbled in any other state? If California would have been the first state in the primary calendar would the Howard Dean campaign ever even seen the light of day? How many square miles is CA? What is the price of gas out there? How many air ports do you have? How many TV stations and radio stations and news papers (media markets) do you have? What does it cost to rent an office in the most centrally located part of the state? How does a small campaign (which is what Dean was until the summer of 2003) even begin out there?

DK has been invited to all party sponsored events - the events that you are complaining about were private sponsored events that had criteria in place in order to receive an invitation, something the Kucinich campaign was aware of b/c he received an invitation in 2003 and attended.

[Cleita]

210. No I don't. I realize that our excess must be used to help out

the more rural and thinly populated states out. What I'm saying is that Washington and ME have no problem using our largess but seem to think we don't really need to have any say on whom we want running the country. It's like they are telling us, pay your bill and don't bother us again. Too bad if you didn't care for the product or the service.

You need to look to Alaska to find the attitude you are describing. They admit running their state in a way so that someday they won't need to take federal money anymore. Of course, they don't want to share what they have with the lower 48 either. Maybe they just need to secede and become their own country.

[youthere]

156. Yes...but the Iowa caucus did not force Dean to do that...

nor did the citizens of Iowa force the media to turn it into a 24-7 circus.
I recommend that if you take issue with any shortcomings of the California political process you work to change California policy, rather than piss and moan about how "unfair" Iowa is.
And I'm all for candidates being given equal time, at party sponsored events.But this was a private party and Dennis WAS given the opportunity to participate, if he would establish a campaign office in Iowa. He turned it down. So did Gravel and the others. Perhaps you should write to Kucinich and ask him why he chose not to be a part of it.
Interesting how capital expenditure seems to be a valid argument when it comes to whose opinion should be heard when it comes to our states, but not the candidates. Since California SPENDS more in our nation, it's deserving of more consideration? So why shouldn't Harkin's people give more consideration to the cadidates who spend more in our state? So which is it? should the amount of money spent matter in political decisions or not?

And just for the record, I was a Dean supporter.

[Debi]

139. First of all, Iowa doesn't hold a primary it holds a caucus -

as for the Dean campaign demise, you'd better thank the folks who failed to support him AFTER Iowa for that.

I caucused for him as did many, many Iowans. Enough of us to get him a third place finish in the caucuses and head to New Hampshire.

Blame the people in his campaign who BLEW the money he raised and refused to come out here and help orchestrate a win (managing the money could have kept him in the race longer - blowing it all only made him drop out sooner).

Blame the media (and the people who follow the msm like lemmings) for lying about and playing the scream tape over and over and over again.

Blame the people who you canvassed who wouldn't stand up for their candidate of choice.

Don't blame the folks LIKE ME who supported Dean.

[toddaa]

208. Bullshit

Don't give me this Iowa derails candidates. If that were true, Bill Clinton would never have been president. He came in third. Just like Howard Dean. Didn't seem to derail Bill. Before Bill Clinton (who ran against Tom Harkin), Michael Dukakis came in third. Just like Howard Dean. Didn't seem to derail Michael.

There are legitimate reasons to question the stupid nomination process, but stop blaming Iowa for the crappy nominee we are saddled with in November. Iowa weeds out the 2 percenters. Beyond that, we don't do much. If a candidate gets in the top three spots in Iowa, the coffers are filled and they move on, which is what happened to Dean. What ultimately derailed Howard wasn't the Iowa Caucuses but the national party and the media who didn't want him to begin with.

[Debi]

228. Hi Toddaa

:hi: Never see you over in the Iowa Forum...stop by and say hello.

[Hippo_Tron]

205. Have you seen the California polls lately?

Clinton has a double digit lead over everyone. If we moved California first we might as well not have a primary.

[Cleita]

231. Which polls? Many of the polls used here aren't that accurate.

Like it depends on what area gets polled to get results. CA is such a diversified state, it really is hard to paint it with a broad brush and it's even harder to set up a poll that gives a true percentage sampling of how Californians are thinking.

On the other hand, we have a lot of moderate type libertarians, who would vote for Hillary rather than another Republican, which is why Arnold has maintained a narrow hold on his fake governorship because he fools those people into believing that he's really a liberal in Republican fiscal policies. Stay tuned. At least we will know who our candidate will be in February. It's much easier on the pocket book. We don't have to keep feeding the losing candidates money until well into the middle of the year like previously.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

135. yes, spend some money...

...on building your organization. Good intentions are not enough.

[Debi]

151. no, sit in Cleveland and expect to get elected president because you have good ideas. n/t

[rinsd]

94. Then why was he able to raise more money for 2004 than he has been able to for 200(

Dennis is about a million dollars behind his pace in 2004.

He took forever putting up a new website. His internet fundraising is a joke.

And he doesn't even bother to have an office in IA, the very first primary.

Instead he has chosen to concentrate on Hawaii.

Dennis the man is great, Dennis the campaigner is not.

[Debi]

127. Are you saying that any of the campaigns that have offices in Iowa

are NOT running an honest campaign and are taking money from supporters who are not on the same page with them and are only taking GOBS of corporate donations? Really?

[Cleita]

131. I don't think I said anything of the sort.

I said Kucinich has refused corporate and PAC money that would put him in a position of needing to return the favor. In that sense he is running one of the most honest campaigns. Others of the candidates aren't being as honest as to what they will have to do in office for payback. The other candidates know what they are doing when they accept campaign contributions and whom they are beholden to. It doesn't mean Kucinich doesn't have to do payback. For all those $50 contributions that he solicited from ordinary people like me, he will have to pay us back with the promises he made to us.

[Debi]

136. But each of the campaigns have small donors - how does that make

Dennis Kucinich more honest that the others? Really, when you use the word honest you are implying that the other candidates are dishonest. Who is a liar? which candidate is out there flat out telling lies to get money? I just don't think that is the case.

And here's what you said:

"That's because he's running an honest campaign, taking money only from those supporters he is on the same page with, unlike the other candidates who are taking gobs of corporate donations."

[Cleita]

138. Dennis is mostly funded by small donors unlike most of the other candidates.

Go to Open Secrets and there you will see which candidates are getting what and from whom. It's very enlightening and a window into who will be favored in their administration. I'm sorry but after eight years of the global oil oligarches in charge of my government, I really am not into having another eight years of corporate whoredom in the White House regardless of which industry it is that comes out on top this time.

[Debi]

140. But he's not the ONLY candidate funded by small donors.

Saying he is doesn't make it so. You can't group all of the candidates into the 'corporate whoredom' category. That's not being honest.

[Cleita]

143. Stop twisting what I say. I didn't say ALL the candidates

were corporate whores. I didn't even mention which candidates I think are corporate whores. I leave that up to you. Looking at their donations and their past records though and that should open your eyes as to whom they are.

[Debi]

150. Here's what you wrote - again

"That's because he's running an honest campaign, taking money only from those supporters he is on the same page with, unlike the other candidates who are taking gobs of corporate donations"

Dennis is running an honest campaign - whereas the other candidates aren't?

Dennis is taking money only from those supporters is is on the same page with - whereas the other candidate take money from?????

Dennis is - unlike the other candidates who are taking gobs of corporate donations.

======

If you are not defining ALL the other candidates please tell me WHO you are describing - which ones are you saying are dishonest, take money from those who are not on the same page as them and who are taking GOBS of corporate donations. Don't make me go over to open secrets. Back up what you wrote yourself. Or don't use such blanket terms. There are candidates that are honest, there are candidates that take small donations from those who agree with their message and their are candidates who are not beholden to corporate donors. And not all of those candidates are named Dennis Kucinich.

[Cleita]

213. I'm not walking into this, however, hint, hint follow the money.n/t

[youthere]

248. SO you believe that Dennis Kucininich does not have to follow the rules?

Is that HONESTLY what you're saying? Or that because a candidate does have money they are crooked?

[walk softly]

214. WHO ARE YOU REALLY ANGRY WITH?

It appears that K has already broken his original promise to you - the one that says he is campaigning for the Democratic nomination.

[youthere]

246. EXCELLENT point.

[Hippo_Tron]

203. See upthread, he had money to spend to travel to Hawaii and Syria

Certainly he could afford to spend a few hundred a month to open an office in Iowa.

[Cleita]

77. Thanks for saying this.

Since I live on the West Coast, I got tired a long time ago with Iowa basically deciding whom my candidate is. We on the West Coast have issues that Iowa doesn't, yet we never seem to be able to pick a candidate that addresses those issues. Iowa however doesn't have problems taking federal money for their issues, federal money that most likely comes from the West Coast, especially California, the sixth largest economy in the world. Our tax dollars pretty much keep this federal government in tax money.

I was disgusted that both Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel were not invited to give their fifteen minute speech at the steak fry. This put John Edwards ahead of the pack, however, imagine if Dennis and Mike could have added their voices to the dialogue.

I didn't even know about the Davenport snub. Shame on Iowa.

[youthere]

87. No..Shame on Dennis for twisting the facts and pretending he doesn't have to play by the rules.

It was a privately hosted event. They had requirements that he didn't meet so he didn't get to play. Boo-fricking hoo. Why does Iowa matter to him all of a sudden?

[Cleita]

93. So you don't get it that by excluding two of the candidates you

are complicit in determining the election in favor of other candidates? It would have been fine if Harkin just wanted to shine the light on his favorites, but in his speech he stated he wasn't going to endorse any single one but would give each equal time to state their platform. He was soooo democratic that they picked the order of appearing by lottery, well with the exception of Kucinich and Gravel. I guess if you can't see the irony, I can't explain it.

[youthere]

112. What about:

Del LaMagna?
Albert B Howard?
James Prattas?
or Danny M Francis?

They are also Democratic presidential candidates that were not invited because they did not meet the guidelines set forth by the Harkin people. Why are you not rending garments for them?
Furthermore, the Steak fry is not specifically an ELECTION event..it is a political event hosted by Tom Harkin every year with a variety of guest speakers, not just candidates.

If this event was SO important to Kucinich then WHY did he not make sure he met the guidelines for the event? Why did he not even buy a ticket so that he could be on premises knowing it would receive national coverage? Gosh, I would think if he's SUCH a viable candidate for Iowans he would have at least made sure his grass-roots folks had a table set up.
If this had been an event sponsored by the DEMOCRATIC PARTY of Iowa, I would agree with you wholeheartedly. But it was not...and of course it was going to get national coverage...Clinton, Edwards, Obama, Dodd, Richardson...all in one spot gathered with 12,000 Iowans. That is a big deal. If they had all happened to stop in McDonald's at the same time the national media would have covered that too. Sadly..had Kucinich taken the event seriously and bothered to set up a single staffer, he would have gotten the coverage too. Had Dodd or Richardson chosen to pass over Iowa they would not have had the opportunity to attend the event either. It is NOT Tom Harkin's responsibility to cover Kucinich's campaign shortfalls. And it is not Iowa's PROBLEM that Kucinich and his "grass roots" have been almost completely ineffectual at getting his message to Iowans. He has been offered the opportunities on a silver platter and turned them away. Do you really expect the Senator from IOWA to applaud a candidate who overlooks and yes,I'll say it, SNUBS his state?

[Cleita]

117. Since you mentioned them, I am rending garments for them

Fair is fair. Even though it was a private event, the host made a statement about giving each candidate equal time. How democratic of him, then he selected which candidates would get this fair and equal treatment, excluding others that should have been included if he was being as fair and equal as he claimed to be.

[youthere]

125. Each candidate who was elible to attend. You conveniently forget that.

They were NOT excluded. They were aware of the requirements. They all chose not to "meet" the requirements, and now he (Dennis) doesn't want accept the consequences...real responsible guy there. If that's any example of the kind of leader he would be I'll pass.

[Cleita]

134. Requirements? Who makes up these arbitrary requirements?

It seems to me that those who set up the requirements could make exceptions especially in this case where all the candidates were there with the glaring exception of those who weren't there on NATIONAL TV.

[IA_Seth]

141. Who makes up the requirements?

The fucking host, that's who! I don't understand your failure to understand that this was a private event, in which any candidate was eligible to speak AS LONG AS THEY MET THE REQUIREMENTS. DK has enough money to fly to Hawaii and campaign in other states, but not enough money to rent a storefront in some small town in Iowa? Why is that? His campaign has made a decision and is now crying about the consequences.. get over it already.

If he wants to focus on other states, attend private bbqs in those states. Don't bitch about people not handing you free publicity when you don't put in the work or the organization in their state.

[Cleita]

144. It's a private event about electing someone for public office.

I'm getting the picture. The private events are turning the public offices into private offices. I get it.

[IA_Seth]

152. Oh geez..

If you want to refuse to acknowledge DK's own responsibility in this there is nothing anyone can say to you to force you to. Kucinich knew what he needed to do in order to be considered a viable candidate (which wasn't much, just actually HAVE a campaign in Iowa) and be invited to this PRIVATE FUND RAISER. If DK wants to now play the victim card it only reflects poorly on him. Y'all are helpin him in that regard at least.

[Debi]

154. It was a fund raiser for Tom Harkin

All candidates who had active organizations were invited to attend. This was not for electing anyone president. It was for re-electing Tom Harkin to the U.S. Senate.

[Cleita]

212. Yes, they said that on C-span that it was a fund raiser mostly

for Harkin. However, it shines a light on how the Democratic Party is evolving into a kind of country club. Instead of inviting ALL the Democratic candidates to attend, only the candidates that qualified were invited, just like a country club.

I really don't know why Dennis is a vegan but I think since much of Iowa's economy is based on ham and bacon, that might have a lot to do as to why he decided not to spend money in Iowa campaigning. It would be a fool's errand to try to get a vote out of a lot of pig farmers, but I still think since the speeches were on national TV, he and the other candidates that were overlooked should have been invited.

[Debi]

229. That is an incredibly derogatory attitude toward the people in Iowa

The presumption that we're all a bunch of pig farmers who wouldn't consider voting for a Vegan is awful and degrading.

You don't have an explanation on why Dennis Kucinich won't run for president in the first state to hold it's nominating process so you decide to throw uneducated insults at us instead.

that's just rude.

[Cleita]

230. I said I don't know why Dennis isn't campaigning in Iowa and

maybe this could be a reason, like maybe his advisors told him something like this. You do have a way of twisting people's words. I'm glad you aren't my mother.

However, since you seem to know what every person in Iowa is thinking like you know what Dennis Kucinich and I are thinking, tell me who will the pig farmers vote for?

Like I said I will be attending a rally for Dennis on saturday and since I personally know his campaign manager in this county, I will ask her and get the facts from the horse's mouth as to why he didn't campaign in Iowa. I promise and I will get back to you.

[Debi]

232. I don't know what every person in Iowa is thinking, only what I think

and since I'm not close to many 'pig farmers' I can't tell you who they are voting for, but as soon as an endorsement from the 'pig farmers association of Iowa' comes out I'll let you know.

Please do get back to me about what Dennis Kucinich says. I'm sure many would like to know.

While you're there could you ask about this from down-thread?:

Dear Chris,

Thank you for your inquiry regarding the participation of Dennis
Kucinich in the AARP/IPTV Forum that will be held on September 20 at the
Adler Theater in Davenport, Iowa.

On July 2, 2007, Rep. Kucinich's campaign was sent a registered letter
inviting him to participate in the event. The letter was accompanied by
criteria that were set by AARP and IPTV for participation in the forum.

Criteria include:

* Have filed an FEC Form F-2, "Statement of Candidacy," with the Federal
Election Commission;

* Have publicly announced an intention to run for the nomination of the
Republican or the Democratic Party for President of the United States;

* Have a Campaign Office inside the State of Iowa; and,

* Have employed at least one paid campaign staff representative to
perform full-time campaign duties in the State of Iowa on behalf of the
candidate since at least August 1, 2007.

During the weeks following his campaign's receipt of the letter of
invitation, Rep. Kucinich's office had no communication with AARP or
IPTV. The campaign did not acknowledge receipt of our invitation, nor
did he or any of his campaign staff indicate any interest in
participating in this forum. We did not hear from anyone about the forum
until a story appeared in the Quad-City Times stating incorrectly, that
Rep. Kucinich had not been invited to participate.

Rep. Kucinich did not meet all four of the stated criteria that would
enable him participate in the upcoming forum by the designated date.

Ann Black
AARP Iowa Communications

http://action.dennis4president.com/forum/posts/id_1232

Seems the Congressman WAS invited to attend both the Harkin Steak Fry and the AARP Forum as long as he met the criteria - which is very minimal AND is criteria that he has established in other states (just opened a campaign headquarters in Nevada - the state that will go third in the nominating process).

[Cleita]

234. I will ask it all those questions. If not to Dennis, to his campaign people.

I know in the Dennis supporters crowd, I can ask those questions without getting tasered or arrested.

[Debi]

235. Did somebody get tasered or arrested at a campaign event in Iowa?

Or at an event for another one of the 2008 Demcoratic candidates?

Why would you even bring that up other than to dilute the arguments in this thread - which were about Kucinich allegedly not being invited to two privately sponsored events (that he was in fact invtied to)?

[Cleita]

236. There you go again, twisting people's words. You are

paranoid. No unless you've been living in a cave, a student got tasered at John Kerry speech in Florida and Medea Benjamin was arrested at a Hillary Clinton event for wearing a t-shirt they didn't like. I was alluding to that not anything happening in Iowa.

[Debi]

238. And because the title of this thread is "Iowa, what the hell is your problem"

I should know that we would be discussing students being tasered in Florida and people getting arrested in California? Why? Because Dennis Kucinich actually campaigns in those states but not Iowa?

How am I paranoid? What in ANY of my posts would make you think I was paranoid? AND what does any of this have to do with Dennis Kucnich allegedly not being invited to events in Iowa that he actually was invited to? Other than to distract and delude all while degrading Iowans (remember, your pig farmer comment?).

[Cleita]

240. There is no "Iowa" mentioned in this post.

I will ask it all those questions. If not to Dennis, to his campaign people.
I know in the Dennis supporters crowd, I can ask those questions without getting tasered or arrested.

btw I just talked to one of the organizers of his visit here and she said that he didn't set up an office in Iowa because he's on a really frugal budget and needs to spend the money where his campaign feels it will bring the most results. She was very busy so the rest of your questions will have to wait until Saturday.

[Debi]

241. And California is cheaper on the budget than Iowa?

Median gross rent in 2005: $852. (in Sacramento)
http://www.city-data.com/city/Sacramento-California.html

Median gross rent in 2005: $618. (in Des Moines)
http://www.city-data.com/city/Des-Moines-Iowa.html

Okay, you let me know who Kucinich's financial consultants are :rofl:

That's not even considering the cost of staff or the cost of flights or the cost of gas or the cost of hotels or the cost of television/radio.

California is cheaper than Iowa to run for president. That's a winner :thumbsup:

[Cleita]

243. If it yields more votes per dollar than other states do, then it is.

Also, that person said that Dennis is the only candidate to go to the smaller cities and towns. In my county, the last time we had a Democrat show up here was Walter Mondale. So I'm very happy that he decided to spend his money on us rather than in those places who will probably go overwhelmingly for one of the more moderate candidates.

[youthere]

249. So what happens if he drains his coffers and has to withdraw before the California primary?

I suppose that will be Iowa's fault as well. *SIgh* Damn us all to hell Bad Iowa! Bad!:eyes:

[youthere]

247. Deleted.

[youthere]

251. Uh DUH..the PARTY had nothing to do with the steak fry...

you don't seem to grasp that.GAWD if I didn't know better I'd think you wuz just an ignorant pig farmer from IOWA. :sarcasm:
Tell me, how can the Democratic Party of Iowa invite people to an event that it does not host? It was HARKIN's bar-b-q and the other forum was hosted by AARP. NOT the Iowa Dems.

[youthere]

158. A private fund raising event for Tom Harkin. You may want to

get the facts behind your outrage straight.

[RangerRK]

80. Protest at Davenport Debate 9/20!

from the kucinich site
http://action.dennis4president.com/blog/view/id_1451 /

As we know, Kucinich, who is the only voice for a single payer universal health care system, was not invited to the Harkin Steak Fry, a very important event for Iowa, and has been excluded from the debate in Davenport this Thursday. If anyone has the inspiration to go to Iowa, the plan is to protest at the entrance of the Adler Theater (136 E. 3rd Street/Davenport, IA 52801) where the debate is being held this Thursday the 20th from 5 to 7 PM.
If you're unable to make the trip, please complain about this unfair decision to AARP (1-888-687-2277; can't find an e-mail address for complaints/comments) and to PBS (http://www.pbs.org/aboutsite/aboutsite_feedback.html ).

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

84. Oh, so NOW he gives a shit about Iowa? n/t

[Freddie Stubbs]

91. "If anyone has the inspiration to go to Iowa"

Translation: He doesn't have enough supporters in Iowa to stage a protest, so he needs people from out of state.

[TornadoTN]

103. Good catch

That's about all Dennis can muster aside from his constant appeals for money to send he and his trophy wife on various trips across the globe.

[youthere]

178. Translation: " I'd go but I'm busy packing for California."

[mmonk]

82. I already posted about this.

Many here like his exclusion.

[Greyhound]

85. Kucinich is what terrifies them. He is pushing real solutions to the problems facing us,

and the last thing want is to actually fix things.

Without all the problems TPTB would lose much of their power and that is the bottom line. Much better to keep the sheep afraid and pliable. This is accomplished by appearing to address problems with out actually changing anything.

We talk about how the Republiks use fear to maintain their power all the time, yet are happy to ignore it when we do it too.

[youthere]

88. No Kucinich amuses us.

Do you really expect Iowans to take him seriously when he can't even be bothered to establish a phone line here?

[Greyhound]

115. Nope, I don't expect anything from Americans except for them to

be good, stay in their homes, watch TV, and be afraid.

Oh, and to always blame the victim.

[youthere]

120. And he's SUCH a victim...

:eyes:

[Greyhound]

128. I didn't say that, you did. n/t

[youthere]

129. Seems to me the only one playing the victim card is Kucinich...

and his supporters.

[Freddie Stubbs]

96. You're right. The establishment is terrified of Kucinich!

Especially after the strong campaign he ran last time. He almost got more delegates than Al Sharpton. :rofl:

[Greyhound]

118. Baa, baa, good bot, you've done your job. n/t

[lonestarnot]

223. Why do you hate America?

[Individualist]

110. Exactly

That's why DLCers are going to such lengths to smear him.

[youthere]

167. Smear him? I don't even KNOW him..but then, I'm from Iowa so it's unlikely I'll get a chance to.

[Debi]

169. You could always take a trip to Hawaii?

Or California?
Or Nevada?
Or Florida?

He's campaigning in those states :hi:

[youthere]

174. Maybe I can catch him on the campaign trail in Syria.

[lonestarnot]

224. Good luck with that.

:eyes:

[youthere]

250. It's probably just as likely as seeing him in Iowa.

:eyes: back at ya.

[Debi]

90. As an active Iowa Democrat who has voted in primaries and caucused

why haven't I been contacted by the DK campaign? All the other campaigns have called to invite me to events - asked me to consider their candidate as my choice for nominee - asked me to volunteer at their headquarters. I have not received a phone call, any literature or an email from the DK campaign. Guess I don't exist or DK doesn't want my support.

Is that what you call an active organization?

[Cleita]

101. I don't know why his campaign hasn't contacted Iowa,

but he is coming to my town this Saturday, something none of the other candidates have done to date and we are more red than blue in my county. So maybe he feels you guys really don't want him there. I will be present at one of the events he's scheduled for. If I can I will ask him why he didn't set up a campaign office in Iowa.

[Debi]

124. That would be great - if you do get an answer please come back here

and make a thread on it. :hi:

[Irishonly]

130. If The Steak Fry Was So Important To Him

why didn't he just crash the party??? It would have been interesting.

[Debi]

155. In a sense he did - what none of his supporters here are saying is that

his campaign had a table set up at the event - with stickers/sign up sheets/t-shirts - the campaign can some how afford to get all of this stuff printed up and mailed to Iowa but cannot afford to have an address designated as his campaign headquarters (like a volunteers apartment - with their cell phone as the office Iowa phone #). It wouldn't have taken much to meet the criteria to speak. DK dropped the ball and is crying foul to get attention. His supporters are following blindly instead of asking the campaign - "How did this happen?" - I'm betting there are Iowa supporters who would allow the campaign to use their homes or offices as a campaign HQ. Why didn't the campaign do that? Were they too busy scheduling another trip to Florida? or California? Or getting the Nevada office up and running? or planning a follow - up trip to Hawaii??? :shrug:

[toddaa]

99. In 2003, Dennis was everywhere. In 2007, Dennis who?

Sorry, but if he doesn't give a shit about campaigning in Iowa, then Iowa doesn't give a shit about him.

And stop whining about lack of money. If Dennis wanted to come to Iowa, his friends at the Maharishi University would levitate him into the state like they did last time.

But in a token of generosity for all the "It's a conspiracy against Dennis" folks, I'm sending a check to Mike Gravel as we speak.

[redqueen]

107. Wow.

Nice job being a complete... -ly reasonable person.

[TornadoTN]

109. bravo!

Seriously, I just don't get the cult of personality that surrounds him. Sure, he is good on some of the issues, but he rarely explains how he will accomplish anything, just more and more clever marketing.

Plus the fact that his "campaign" is urging out-of-state people to travel to Iowa to protest his exclusion from this event is irony at its finest. He doesn't have any modicum of support in Iowa because he has largely ignored it, opting instead to travel to Hawaii, Florida, California and Syria with his wife. Reap what you've sown Dennis.

[progressoid]

122. Ha ha ha ha!!!

[redqueen]

108. He won't play ball...

oh well... most dems seem more than happy to keep bending over for the corporatocracy.

I say let 'em have at it.

[TornadoTN]

111. Pardon?

Dennis chose to ignore Iowa, opting instead to jet-set across the globe to California, Florida, Hawaii and Syria. The other candidates have had their campaigns grinding it out on the ground in Iowa for quite some time now. This is his fault for abandoning the state almost entirely. Lovely rationale that I love for my leaders to exhibit:sarcasm:

[redqueen]

119. Uh huh. n/t

[Debi]

157. redqueen, I can't believe that is really how you feel

If we don't support Dennis Kucinich we are bending over for the corporatocracy? That's it? It's DK or the highway? We aren't given any other choices in candidates? Because all of them are part of the corporate whoredom?

[redqueen]

160. If your candidate supports leaving no insurance exec behind...

then how else can that be interpreted?

[Debi]

161. I'm sorry you feel this way.

I don't think we can see true universal health care in the first two years of our new president. I think it will take more elections - more Democrats in the House and Senate (the magic super majority) and I'd rather start incrementally then be where we've been for the last 15 years. But that's only me. You obviously are entitled to your own vision and hope.

I guess we'll keep our discussions for The Lounge until after the national convention :hug:

[redqueen]

162. Aww you are so kind...

I'm sort of a bitch I think... :rofl:

No worries hon... I still love ya, no matter which Dem ya vote for! :loveya:

[Debi]

166. I just hate all this crap

I think there is a difference between aggressively advocating for your candidate of choice and spewing hate-speech ala Linda Blair!! (Like that visual???)

I was rabid for Dean and I bet I wrote stuff like this in 2003 - maybe it's because I'm not on board w/anybody that these threads drive me batty :shrug:

Anyway - we'll stick to fried chicken, Olive Garden, Fat Actress and smoking while breastfeeding for a while :hi:

[redqueen]

168. Yeah... *sigh*

Sorry... I guess I'm still a bit rabid about Kucinich. :blush:

It's cause I know HE'D never eat cornflake-crusted chicken!

[Debi]

170. OH NO YOU DIDN'T

Corn Flakes is the ONLY way to fry chicken :grr:

Okay, enough - does the Olive Garden have vegan dishes???

I mean it...knock it off!! :yoiks:

[youthere]

176. But I BET he would taser a pit bull.

[redqueen]

177. Yeah... but that'd be tasering pit bulls FOR JUSTICE!

So it's okay. :D

[youthere]

180. Damn! The dogs were smoking weren't they?

[redqueen]

181. AND they were Laura Branigan fans!

:wow:

[youthere]

182. Well obviously they asking for it.

GO Dennis! Work that taser!

[Debi]

184. There's the redqeen I adore!

:rofl:

[progressoid]

121. Uh...Dennis! What the hell is your problem?

Representatives of both events have falsely claimed that Kucinich does not have a sufficiently "active organization" in Iowa.

Well, in the last few months, I have gotten calls and literature from everyone but Kucinich and Gravel. I've even get info from the Republicans despite being a registered Democrat.

Hey Dennis, You can't drink the beer if you don't belly up to the bar.



FYI...I like his positions and had kept him in my top choices. But this childish attitude doesn't speak well of someone that wants to run the country.

[lonestarnot]

218. Ugh money?

:shrug:

[progressoid]

220. As pointed out numerous times elsewhere...

If he can't afford a single office in the state, how is he going to run a nation-wide campaign?

But a shortage of money doesn't seem to keep him from jetting around the rest of the country so I'm disinclined to think that is the issue.

Frankly, as a seasoned politician who has done this before, I'm surprised (and a bit disappointed) that he's acting this way. He knows how the game is played. It's a tad disingenuous to behave like a victim.

If he wants to be the 'outsider', great. But don't complain when you don't get invited to rub elbows with the 'insiders'.

[Rambis]

148. We had an independent get 26%

in the Dem primary for governor. He is a progressive green (Ed Fallon) and he endorsed Edwards right away so DK's biggest potential supporter was off the boards and no none picked up the slack for him.

[Debi]

159. He endorsed Edwards ... why?

You go ahead - this story will start a new flame war and I don't have my SuperGirl Underoos on right now...:hi:

[blm]

164. This sounds like Tom Harkin's decision - don't blame Iowa.

.

[redqueen]

171. For the debate? Harkin gets to decide who is allowed to debate?

:shrug:

[youthere]

172. Nope Harkin's group decided who got mic time at his steak fry...

AARP and Iowa Public Television got to call the shots for the other forum.

[redqueen]

173. Yeah... this is about the debate.

Thanks for the clarification on who decided who gets to speak and who doesn't.

:hi:

[youthere]

175. No problem!

:hi:

[blm]

183. I was talking about the Steak Fry speeches.

But, I will also put up a guess that the most powerful LAWMAKERS in Iowa are the ones calling the shots because they are being pressured by POWERFUL POWERBROKERS and BIG NAMES to do so..

[youthere]

187. So you don't believe that Tom Harkin should be able to set any..

conditions on who gets to speak at his own fundraiser? That he's hosting?
The condition he set was not unreasonable-all he had to do was set up a frickin official campaign in Iowa. A cell phone and P.O. Box is not going to bankrupt Kucinich..if it does he has bigger issues than not getting mic time at a bar-b-que.

[blm]

189. Yes - but excluding a presidential candidate who has also been a longtime member of congress

isn't particularly fair or democratic.

I like Harkin, but this smells like someone influenced him - it really doesn't sound like him.

[youthere]

191. I hate to burst your "Its a plot against Kucinich" bubble...

but he was more than welcome to participate..so long as he established an official campaign in Iowa. He chose not to, as did Mike Gravel and others. Did you read ANYTHING posted on this thread?
Those were the rules. No exceptions...not even for longtime members of congress. Do the rules need to be reevaluated? That's Harkin's call. But I tell you this, I would have been pissed had he allowed Kucinich to participate and not the others who don't have official campaigns in Iowa.

[blm]

198. I didn't read the whole thread.

If I had time to do it, maybe, but still, Kucinich is a longtime and current member of congress with a national constituency.

[youthere]

204. Which makes it so difficult to understand...

why Kucinich would not bother to establish an official campaign in this state. No one is asking him to drop millions on staffers.. just a phone number and an address. Don't tell me that you actually believe that Kucinich should be immune to the rules just because he's a congressman.

[Debi]

195. I don't see a conspiracy here as much as I see a campaign that is not putting

any effort into Iowa. Kucinich had an organization in 2003 and was invited and attended the Harkin Steak Fry. For whatever reason Kucinich is ignoring Iowa which is his choice. The Harkin Campaign set a cut off for what was necessary to receive and invitation, the Kucinich campaign decided not to meet it and didn't receive an invitation (and neither did the other four or five or whatever Democratic candidates who aren't campaigning in Iowa). That's all there is.

[youthere]

197. Debi, do you know if ...

Kucinich received any flak for attending the steak fry before, since he is a vegan? Not that it would explain his choice not to set up an official campaign but I was just wondering.

[Debi]

202. I don't know

I don't remember anything about it. Can't imagine he would've. :shrug: He still had support in January, where he was viable in some precincts - 1%- something like 39 delegates, so I don't think he lost support over his attendance last cycle.

[Debi]

186. rq, there is no debate

The Harkin Steak Fry was a fund raiser for Tom Harkin and his campaign set the criteria for being able to be up on stage speaking - DK did have supporters there and had a table w/literature, stickers, t-shirts etc.

The AARP Forum rules were (probably) established by the AARP or IPTV and again it's not a debate. And DK and Gravel aren't the only candidates not attending, Obama has opted out - his campaign has decided not to be involved in forums that are other than DNC sponsored events (which doesn't explain his attendance at the SEIU event...but whatever...).

[redqueen]

188. Ah geez...

I'm so effin confused...

:crazy:

Thanks, Debi.

[Debi]

190. But - DK has been invited to ALL party sponsored events

like the Hall of Fame dinner in June and the debate in August. (not to mention the Labor Forum in Cedar Rapids in August).

That's what makes the email from his campaign so disturbing. The whole story didn't come out, only the part about the candidate not being included in two events not sponsored by the party.

I think that's why Iowans are pretty hot about the treatment our state (US) and our party have been receiving. I'm not gonna jump on DK's back about this, but it would be nice to hear WHY he has no Iowa organization - if he had one he would have met the criteria to be in attendance at both the Harkin Steak Fry and the AARP Forum. And if you look on the Iowa Democratic Party web site his campaign contact info is there just like the other candidates. I do not believe he is being mistreated by our party our any of us Iowans.

[redqueen]

192. Yeah... this is surely a valid criticism of his campaign...

it seems to be run by neophytes... or saboteurs! :tinfoil:

[Debi]

196. THEY

are out to destroy the campaign...I see it now :rofl:

[youthere]

194. Umm, I'd just add that...

I AM going to jump on DK's back. That email purposely omitted facts and left the impression it was the PARTY that excluded him. That was a deliberate distortion and I resent it. I've never been thrilled about his choice to skip Iowa, but I've been open to him as a candidate. This has severely damaged my opinion of him. It was a dirty trick and I feel as though Iowa Democrats have been swiftboated by him...okay, maybe not that bad, but I am certainly put out about it.

[redqueen]

199. If it distorts the truth as much as it seems to have, based

on what I've read here... he deserves to be jumped on for it.

And not in a good way!


edit: and it's not the first time it's happened, either, so... *sigh*

[youthere]

200. I think all campaigns have moments like this.

I'll be so glad when we can get back to fighting repuplicans.

[redqueen]

201. AMEN and HALLELUJAH!

:bounce:



it really bugs though cause I sent strongly-worded e-mail to his campaign after the LAST screwup like this.

:grr:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

179. To Tom Harkin, who held the event

f*ck that!!!!!!!!!

[Cha]

193. Dennis is a Vegan but he could

have had some corn the cob and baked potatoes like I do when I go to my sister's. ;)

[Debi]

206. My son had so many friends on Speech Team and in Drama that were Vegan

that I made Vegan dishes for all the award banquets so the kids would have something to eat. Everyone brought lasagna or chicken and noodles or brownies (made w/milk and eggs) so I made fruit kabobs and beans and rice (made w/veggie broth) and bean salad. I learned some great recipes from a Home Health Aide that was also Vegan.

This is so OT, but :hi:

[Cha]

209. Lots of Vegans in Iowa, eh?

Who knew? I've been Vegan for many years and I eat delicious organic food..keeps ya healthy!

In the '70's none of this was mainstream and look how far the natural organic food industry has come..so who knows how ahead of his time Dennis is?
:hi:

[Debi]

227. Well, at least in the dramatic arts community

It added some good recipes to my list - but I'm still a carnivore at heart :shrug:

[slipslidingaway]

207. Part of my email to the Kucinich campaign...

This is an urgent matter for the campaign to address Yesterday!

The campaign tells supporters that Dennis Kucinich was not invited to attend the AARP forum, yet the AARP has stated that an invitation was sent via registered letter in the beginning of July and the campaign never expressed any interest. Please see the posting on your own website of the email received from Ann Black of AARP Iowa Communications.

http://action.dennis4president.com/forum/posts/id_1232/

In short, someone is not being honest about the events and who that is I am not sure. If AARP is not being forthright then the campaign needs to make available on it's website the correspondence it had with AARP.

Two major events missed in Iowa and hardly any campaign visits to this state...

Dennis may be correct on the issues but that does not automatically translate into support.

[youthere]

211. Good for you slipslidingaway! Thanks for putting it back in Kucinich's lap...

rather than crossing your arms and fussing about how "mean" Iowa is. I sent a similar letter to the campaign office.

[slipslidingaway]

216. And thank you for sending an email as well, there are some

holes in the chain of events and the campaign needs to address those now. They are not automatically getting a pass from me. I hope others call and email Kucinich and that goes for other candidates as well who are remaining silent on other issues. :hi:

[lonestarnot]

219. Hmmm. Well what does translate into support. Issues don't count?

:shrug: I am having a hard time with this one :)

[youthere]

221. I would think a candidate who has been touting what a clean and honest campaign...

he is running would do backbends to make sure the campaign is clean from snout to tail. Kucinich's message has been that he's different from the rest of the Washington herd, well you sure can't tell it from tactics like these. How does falsely smearing the Iowa Democratic Party in a campaign communication prove to me he is honest? Smells to me like the same old dirty campaign politics, and unfortunately, Dennis isn't around to leave any other impression with Iowans. Actions ALWAYS speak louder than words, and the only action Iowans have seen from Kucinich is that he's spending money flying everywhere EXCEPT Iowa, all the while crying "poor" and telling half-truths to smear the Iowa Democratic Party-who (again) HAD NO RESPONSIBILITY OR AUTHORITY IN THESE EVENTS.
I said before, I'm not thrilled that he chose to overlook Iowa in his campaigning, but I was open to him as a candidate...but this crap he pulled has really damaged my opinion of him.

[lonestarnot]

225. So you vote for the monied candidates.

[IA_Seth]

226. Intentional ignorance is hardly an argument! n/t

[youthere]

245. So you believe that a poor campaign excuses dirty politics?

[slipslidingaway]

242. Issues do count but moving past the initial support one must

maintain and build their supporters by having their voices heard. If I am not mistaken tonight's forum will be broadcast on public TV and sadly his voice will not be heard, others can afford those kind of mistakes, his campaign cannot.

[Debi]

233. Thank you for posting this n/t

[slipslidingaway]

244. YW, we all need to make sure our own houses are in order

first :)

[charlie]

215. What the hell is a steak fry?

I like steak and I like fried foods. If Iowans have found a way to marry these two delectables, I want to know about it.

[lonestarnot]

217. Ack! P U! Steak fry.

[charlie]

222. Lol

Take a breath, the steaks are grilled. I looked it up. No one knows how it came to be called the Steak Fry.

Everything good is made better when it's fried, though :)

[hayu_lol]

252. The two events you mention has already been fully covered on DU...

threads. Kucinich has whined and complained(as you are doing now)but the fault lies with him and not with these independent fundraisers and debates.

The Harkin Steak Fry is a private affair. They are free to invite whomever they wish. He could have(woulda, coulda, shoulda)sent them a check for $30 and received a ticket. Then he would have been there. He chose to spend his money on an Hawaiian trip.

The AARP debate group sent Kucinich a registered letter early in July inviting him to participate. He failed to comply with their requirements and failed completely to answer the registered letter. Thats why he wasn't there.

This guy, Dennis Kucinich, has all the right things to say, but is totally incompetent to run his own campaign. How in the world can a candidate screw up so badly and then whine and complain about it.

You need to get your facts straight on both these failures of Dennis Kucinich. The info you need is still floating someplace here at DU.

There is no way Dennis could be relied upon to run this broken and divided country.