Why Iran doesn't "have homosexuals"

[begin_within]

Because they execute them! It doesn't matter that the story and pictures linked below are on Faux Noise, it's still a story that needs to be retold since Ahmadinejad's statement that in Iran "we don't have homosexuals, like in your country."

"Just how many gays may have been killed — some say the figure is more than 400 — is impossible to determine. Routine harassment and systematic torture of gays in Iran is quite common, charge human rights groups.

"...According to Iranian law, consensual gay sex in any form is punishable by death. Violators are reportedly given a choice of four methods of execution.

"...the truth is that Iranian officials actually know quite a bit about homosexuals in Iran. Gay men in Iran are allowed medical dispensations from mandatory military service, for example, and the country's secret police constantly monitor gay activities through Internet chat rooms and other electronic methods."

Story at:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,297982,00.html

Caution: That page does not have any graphic photos, but it includes a link, and if you click on that link you can view a series of photos of the hanging of two teenagers in Iran in 2005.

[ruggerson]

1. Why do you want to bomb Iran?

What about George Bush? He hates gays too!

(sarcasm)

[begin_within]

3. I don't want to bomb Iran. I think that would be a colossal mistake.

I think George Bush kinda likes bald guys.

[Warren DeMontague]

2. On the plus side, maybe we can get Fred Phelps to move there. nt

[rusty quoin]

4. Ah, alas Christian and Muslim. Extremist have so much in common

[Bassic]

27. As are extremists of all kinds.

As a general rule, extremism = bad.

[dailykoff]

5. The Fox story says they were hung for sexually abusing a minor.

not for being gay. It also says homosexuals in Iran can get medical dispensations to exempt them from military service.

[cali]

8. I don't know about this story but check out

HRW. They have ample documentation as do other human rights organization. Much of that has been posted in the last couple of days.

Iran has the DP for gays encoded in their laws.

And they use it. Not infrequently.

[dailykoff]

13. "forcible rape of an underage boy" is what the Fox story says.

The whole story is pretty clearly intended to mislead us into thinking they were innocent young lovers, but it appears there's a little more to it.

[cali]

16. As I said I didn't check out the story here

I gave you information. Believe it or not. Check it our or not. that's your business. A false story in this thread, doesn't negate the documentation available at Human Rights Watch.

[cali]

17. As I said I didn't check out the story here

I gave you information. Believe it or not. Check it our or not. that's your business. A false story in this thread, doesn't negate the documentation available at Human Rights Watch.

[dailykoff]

18. This story is misleading, yes.

The opening quotation suggests homosexuality in Iran is punishable by death, but the three executions actually cited are all cases of abuse of minors, which is taken pretty seriously here too.

[MADem]

19. The Morality Police can call you a prostitute before they hang you, and that's what goes in the

record. They can SAY you are a rapist, and that's what you die as. Fox doesn't kill themselves going after the story, as we well know.

The bottom line? It was 'lavat' that did those kids in.

Here's a link with a description of another instance as well as that one: http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=4403

Tehran, Iran, Nov. 13 – Two young men were hanged in a public square in the northern city of Gorgan after being found guilty of lavat, or homosexual relationship, a semi-official daily reported on Sunday.

The two men, identified as Mokhtar N. and Ali A., were aged 24 and 25 years old respectively. They were hanged in public in Shahid Bahonar Square in Gorgan, the daily Kayhan wrote.

The newspaper said the “criminal past” of the two young men included kidnapping and rape, but the report made it clear that the “crime” for which they were hanged was lavat, which means homosexual relationship between two men or sodomy.

The execution of two homosexual teenagers in the city of Mashad in July provoked an international outcry. The hard-line government of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has vowed to follow a tougher line to implement Islamic law in Iran.

Under Iran’s Islamic Penal Code, homosexuality between consenting adults is a capital crime and official Iranian sources express hostility to homosexual practices. A state radio commentary on March 7, 2005 criticised gay marriages in Western countries. Ayatollah Ebrahim Amini, an influential cleric, said in his Friday-prayer sermon in Qom that gay and lesbian marriages reflect a weakness of Western culture, state television reported on July 13, 2002. Ayatollah Ali Meshkini in his Friday-prayer sermon in Qom criticised the German Green Party for being pro-homosexual, state television reported on April 29, 2000.

[dailykoff]

20. AP: "two teenagers sentenced to death for raping and killing two young boys"

That's from a story quoted on your site, which is not exactly objectivity central (it's a propaganda outlet):

"On Sunday Iranian media reported that a 16 year old was among two teenagers sentenced to death for raping and killing two young boys earlier this year."

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=12445

Maybe the charges were rigged, but that's not a problem unique to Iran. Look at Jose Padilla for instance.

[foo_bar]

26. "not a problem unique to Iran"

"We work with many exiled gay Iranians in London," Tatchell said. "They confirm that smears and torture against gay people are routine in Iran. Whenever the regime wants to deflect criticism, it trumps up charges of alcoholism, adultery, rape and drug abuse against the victims of its brutality.

"OutRage! is aware of other cases in the region where a false claim of rape has been used by parents to spare a family the shame of having a gay son and to save him from imprisonment and/or execution."
<...>

"We write to express our concerns over the recent execution of two gay teenagers in northeastern Iran," said U.S. Reps. Barney Frank, D-Mass., Jan Schakowsky, D-Ill., and Tom Lantos, D-Calif. "The exact details of the case remain unclear, and because the conflicting reports about the nature of the charges against the two boys make it difficult to react appropriately, we urge the State Department to do everything it can to clarify the circumstances of this case.

"Initial reports were that the 16-year-old and 18-year-old boys ... were punished for homosexual activity with each other," the congressmen said. "In other reports, the Iranian authorities claim the teenagers were accused of raping a 13-year-old boy. Some human rights groups suspect that this charge may have been trumped up as an excuse for the brutal treatment of gay people and to undermine public sympathy for the boys."

http://www.365gay.com/newscon05/08/080305iranFolo.htm

Iran’s crackdown on gays drew worldwide protests (except in the United States) after the hanging for “homosexual acts” of two teenagers—one 18, the other believed to be 16 or 17—on July 19 in the city of Mashad. Charges against the two teens included the alleged rape of another youth. But three independent gay sources inside Mashad told Afdhere Jama, editor of Huriyah (an Internet zine for gay Muslims), that the teens were well known in the city’s underground gay community as lovers who lived together, and that the rape charge was fabricated. The editors of an underground Persian-language zine in Iran (who requested anonymity out of fear) also confirm that their own Mashad sources said that the rape charge was trumped up—a view now generally accepted. In any case, the hangings were illegal under international law because Iran is a signatory to two treaties that forbid executing minors. Since then, there have been reports of at least a dozen more gay victims who have been executed.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/2458/

[MADem]

30. Precisely-- "Iranian media reported ..."

And they report what the Supreme Leader and the Guardians tell them to.

I'm not playing the 'moral equivalency' game. Jose Padilla hasn't been hanged from a crane in Times Square yet. Sure, his situation is egregious, he should have the right to an attorney and an opportunity to confront his accusers, but all those people, many of them minors, who swung from cranes in town squares all over Iran will never have that opportunity, no matter which President they elect.

[Clintonista2]

25. They were *charged with* sexually abusing a minor, but no evidence of this was found

After all, they "dont have gay people in Iran", right?

[KAZ]

6. Um, I think that's pretty much understood. That's why the ...

... the crowd's laughter at his proclamation was the best thing that happened during that whole dog-and-pony. But thanks for the link.

[MatrixEscape]

7. There are closets in Iran!

And they use them the same way Rethuglicans use them here in the USA.

[killbotfactory]

9. Legally, homosexuals don't exist in Iran.

Just heterosexuals performing homosexual acts. That's why he claims there are no homosexuals in Iran.

[booley]

10. So that means we should bomb them

Wouldn' that kill even more gay people in iran then the iranian government has?

And doesnt' this mean we should also bomb Saudi Arabia?

and Alabama?

[begin_within]

15. I said nothing about bombing anyone in my original post! Sheesh.

[booley]

21. No you did not

But this sounds eerily like what happened with Iraq.

Sane person-"I dont' thnk we should go to war with Iraq."

Freeper-""Don't you know that Saddam has gassed and killed his own people?"

Sane person-"Yes but that doesnt' mean we should bomb iraq!"

Freeper-"So you like that Saddam tortures and kills his own people?!"

And no, I am not accusing you of being a freeper.

However, I can see a freeper using the same arguement you are using and then saying that justifies bombing iran

AND

I think your post misses the larger issue. Homophobia is endemic to pretty much the entire Middle East. Only In Israel do gays have any real rights (and even there there is discrimination.) The iranian president probably endorses iran's treatment of gay people and his statement was dumb at best. But he didnt' institute that policy nor does he have the power to change it even if he didn't support it.

So whats' the point of singelign him out as if he was resposnable?

[spoony]

22. So the sane should shut up, and the innocent stay indoors lest they tempt muggers.

The commonplace nature of this concept that criticism must be stifled, as if we could stop Bush if he actually wanted to bomb Iran, is getting VERY annoying here.

[booley]

23. No but the sane should not endorse the crazy people

even if they do unintentionally.

Sorry but I am not going to act as if the last 5 years didnt' happen. This is all sounding very familiar to me..the demonization of a person as the "new hitler".

So when you blame the iranian president for iranain laws he didnt' actually create and which is part of a homophobia outside Iran, it doesnt' help the conversation.

And face it, even though you dont' want to bomb iran, those that do will use the same arguement you did. That's a real concern, whether you want to admit or not.

[Jed Dilligan]

11. Funny when you think of how many people, even here on DU,

say, "They knew it was against the law yet they chose to break it," so anything the system does to (say) drug users is okay.

I guess there's a double standard for American vs. Iranian fascism.

[TheUniverse]

12. Mahmoud is big peice of shit.

He is the equivalent of our religious right times 100. This guy is worse than Fred Phelps.

[ShaneGR]

14. Clearly you want to go to war with Iran, so you should shut up...

/sarcasm off

[Eagle_Eye]

24. Isn't this just like FOX news, advancing its political agenda on the tragedy of others

Republicans hate Iran, show some people Iran killed.
Republicans hate gays, show some dead gays.
Fox advances little george bush's march to expand the war into Iran.
Fox advances the republican political agenda.
Fox appeases the Conservative base.

I hate Fox.

[sniffa]

28. this is fLamebait

[candymarl]

29. Umm, because

they're all either dead, in the closet, or have fled to other countries where being gay is not a death sentence? What do I win?