The Ken Burns documentary got me thinking

[StrongBad]

Watching the documentary and the accompanying letters/speeches/video footage of the time gave me this incredible sense of admiration mixed with sadness. Admiration for the people who rose to their duty and defended their country with their lives, but the sadness came in while thinking about the nature of the times politically as well.

It must have been nice to have lived in an era when a conflict such as WW2 had such great moral clarity as to the necessity of fighting. It was a just war, and most people realized this which gave the country a great sense of unity. I can't foresee a time when war will ever be looked upon with anything but moral ambiguity in this day and age. It seems that World War II was the last true war of its kind in that it was a true battle between "good" and "evil" (and yes I know such terms are simplistic but I'm using them anyway).

Anyway just wanted to share some thoughts sparked by the new Ken Burns project!

[tridim]

1. It was odd to hear self proclaimed pacifists signing up to fight

It just doesn't fit with today's military industrial complex driven wars. Things have changed since the 40's as Ike predicted.

I wonder what will happen if/when another 'just' war comes along? Bush has destroyed our military and our will, and I fear that it might be permanent.

[rusty quoin]

2. It has to be made illegal, to profit from war.

[RubyDuby in GA]

3. What struck me watching last night's episode was the sacrifice that people willingly undertook when

asked by their government. Can you imagine the selfish assholes nowadays being asked to ration and save up their bacon grease? What happened in such a relatively short amount of time in the grand scheme of things (60 years)? How did we get from the Greatest Generation to the Me Generation?

[Johonny]

4. IDK

Seems like the me generation has given up a lot for this war. Good buy owning your own home, good bye retirement benifits, good bye health care, good bye value of the dollar, good bye chance at higher education, good bye any oversight of industry, good bye union protecting your job, good bye well made products. A lot of the current generation would love to be able to afford not eating greasy fast food but it's all they can afford. Oh I'd say the me generation have given up a lot even if they don't know it yet.

[SammyWinstonJack]

5. No sacrifice on the part of bu$h$' base though.

THE HAVES AND HAVE MORES haven't been asked or made too sacrifice one damn thing.



BRING ON THOSE TAX CUTS AND NO MORE DEATH TAX!


Seems fair, after all, taxes are only for the little people

And so it seems, is war.


:eyes:

[RubyDuby in GA]

10. Not what I meant

What I meant was that there was a sense of community - of wanting to do your part for the people fighting for freedom. Nowadays people would look at you like you had 3 heads if you asked them to give up their gas guzzler and turn up their thermostat and recycle their scrap metal.

And people then were acutely aware of the war. Now, people just yawn and go back to watching American Idol because their beautiful minds can't be bothered with such things.

[StrongBad]

6. Here's what happened in my opinion

Pre WWII we were essentially still a pretty "innocent" nation who while easily led by authority held deep conviction concerning democracy and America's place in the world as a beacon of freedom. That's why we found no problem finding citizens with valor and a sense of duty to fight and sacrifice.

Also remember - we were not that rich of a country at this point. What caused this radical departure in values I think was the aftermath of WWII. Our infrastructure aside from Pearl Harbor was untouched by the war while the rest of the industrialized nations were utterly decimated. This combined by the fact that our GDP soared b/c of demand created by the war put us in a unique position for global domination which continues to this day. We pretty much from that enviable position never relented our power and slowly our ideals devolved to power struggles and the quashing of anything that didn't gel with our interests.

[Auggie]

7. I remember my Grandmother telling me not everyone played by the rules

There was a black market in ration stamps. She knew people in organized crime and was told if she needed anything -- butter, gasoline, meat -- to just ask (she never did). I've also heard that some scrap drives were bogus -- the government just wanted to give people a way to actively participate.

I think those were isolated cases though, and I don't mean to step on you point StrongBad. There are selfish assholes in all generations.

[StrongBad]

9. That's not surprising

Interesting stories that your Grandma told. I'm sure organized crime had a field day during the rationing time, as unfortunately anything that's banned or limited will have some underground economy to compensate. That would be an interesting avenue to explore and document, although obviously Ken Burns wouldn't focus on that :)

[AlCzervik]

8. i was in tears last night at the end when Babe's sister was reading a letter she wrote to him

and after she finished we found out what happened to him and his family had no clue he was even fighting because he didn't want to worry them.