Beyond 2009

[Mythsaje]

At this point it seems VERY probable that Hillary Clinton will win the Democratic Party nomination as our candidate for President in the 2008 election. Not my first choice. In fact, as far as it goes, she's pretty much my LAST choice. I'm not going to go into any more detail about why--I've covered that ad nauseum. I also think she'll win, particularly if Dobson and his goons succeed in offering the Religious Reich voters a Theo-Nazi candidate to supplant whoever the Republican Party ends up nominating--which, at this point, is probably going to be Giuliani.

So be it. I'd no more vote against her in the General than I'd vote Republican or Theo-Nazi.

However...

DU was, from its inception, a reactionary site...created in response to the theft of the Presidency by Bush and his cabal, including members of the Supreme Court. Since then it has offered a sanctuary for those who hold themselves in opposition to the Bush Administration, the Republican Party in general, and the corporate media that has acted in collusion with them.

I'm curious at this point what DU will become if we gain the Presidency and a larger, far more powerful majority in Congress. What purpose will it serve once there is no more Republican Party dominance anywhere in our government?

I have a feeling DU will go the way of most left-leaning blogs and communities if this should happen the way we HOPE it will happen. Those of us in the digital hinterlands will become even more strident in trying to push the government in the directions we would prefer. We cannot simply withdraw and hope they do what avowed liberals and progressives should do...restore Constitutional protections, work to end the war, enact far stronger environmental and worker protections, and other such things.

We know Hillary supports "Free Trade." We also know she believes lobbyists "represent real Americans." We should not expect any meaningful reform of some of our biggest problems with consolidated media, outsourcing, and lobbyist firms coming from HER initiative. It will be Congress that will have to drive that cart, which means Congress will have to become far more responsive to us.

Or not. Because these current circumstances leave us in a bit of a quandry. Should Congress NOT be responsive to our wishes to reform those things that desperately need to be reformed, we can't vote for the opposition. We already KNOW what kind of losers they've proved to be. Malicious, corrupt, and generally incompetent. Not even an option. We can't hope a viable third party might arise to exert pressure in the right direction, because the cards are definitely stacked against any possibility that a third party will have any chance of success.

Simply put, the way things stand now, Congress can do anything it wants and there won't be much we can do about it at all. Oh, we can support challengers in the primaries, but we already know how tightly the party bosses control this sort of thing. Challenging an incumbent is a hideously difficult thing to manage, especially when one is up against the party as a whole.

So what will we do? Sit here at our keyboards screaming in impotent rage as things continue in much the same way as they have been?

Oh, there's no doubt some things will improve a great deal. I don't even think there's any question about that. But the pro-corporate arm of the Democratic Party--the "Free Trade" folks who don't care how bad the current system is screwing up America--have entirely too much influence. Between them and the corporate media, they're choosing our Presidential Candidate, after all. Can't rock the boat, baby, because then it makes it too hard to re-arrange the deck chairs.

I really want to know what we're going to do past the next election, if we see no signs that the long-term circumstances aren't being addressed. What if there's no meaningful lobbying reform, election reform, and trade reform? What if there's no meaningful effort to restore the Constitutional protections that have been disrupted under Bushco?

We've been up against some serious challenges the last seven years. I'm sad to say, I have the funny feeling we're going to be up against some even more serious challenges for years to come. I just hope we're up to them.

[John Q. Citizen]

1. A great post. n/t

[babylonsister]

2. Your initial premise could be flawed.A Dem will win, but I cannot at

this point predict who. Baby steps, but nice post.

[Mythsaje]

3. I know a juggernaut when I see one.

At this point I'd say the chances of a Republican winning the General is rather small, and shrinking all the time.

[babylonsister]

4. Yea, but whoever wins has a LONG-GG row to hoe.

It won't be easy; so who might be worthy? I think our opinions differ.

[Cobalt-60]

5. The bureaucracy needs to be purged

The mouth breathers from Regent and Liberty universities need to be cashiered, immediately.
If they can't be fired they need to be transferred to debris clearance in New Orleans.
Indeed I would make an attempt to pull back the good people driven out by the fascists these past eight years.
Every one of these Republican hires can be counted on to spy for them at minimum.
I've always believed such persons left behind by Nixon were largely responsible for the ills of the Carter administration.
There are too many chips on the table to take a chance with these people.

[Mythsaje]

6. Hell, they're responsible for much of the ills of THIS administration...

There's a lot of work to be done all the way around. I just want to be sure they'll actually DO it.

[saracat]

7. Oops! Posted on the wrong thread.Sorry .Repost below!

saracat (1000+ posts) Mon Oct-15-07 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. Personally, I think the reaction of most will be to celebrate and then spend the
Edited on Mon Oct-15-07 07:18 AM by saracat
next four years nitpicking to death everything everyone does. I think factions will continue to exist and just as in the Primary, there will be those for whom nothing is good enough and those that will think everything is perfect. Few will be in the middle.I think DU will be more of a "chat room" of political nonsense talk and not as productive.But I could be wrong. Because energy could be channeled into other productive avenues.We will see.

[peacebird]

8. great post - but I'm still praying that HRC falters and another Dem gets the nom!

[me b zola]

9. I've been wondering along the same lines myself

I posted earlier, on a now locked thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2046311&mesg_id=2046506

me b zola (1000+ posts) Sun Oct-14-07 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
19. I've been wondering what it's going to be like after the general election


Let's assume that we take the WH and widen our majority in Congress (irrespective of which Dem takes the WH). What will happen if a year into the first term we still have troops killing and dying in Iraq? What if the press for the theft of Iraqi oil continues? What if Dem leadership does not restore the Constitution to it's pre-* fullness?

Will we be expected to fall into line and not protest or attempt to change horrible policies? I imagine that Skinner has already considered this and is probably planning to set some type of guidelines. But can you imagine how the politicos on this board will attack those who post reasonable criticism?

_________________

I've been wondering about this for a little while now. It is strange--and a little unsettling--to think about the shift. I have to, though, believe that Skinner is already pondering the same questions and is developing new rules/guidelines to hold it all together. Even still, I feel like it will be the wild west around here for a while.

[Mythsaje]

10. I guess it's not surprising it got locked.

Though it IS a debate we really need to have. Just maybe not here.

[tblue37]

11. I have made my suggestions in a post in

GD: Politics:
"Building a Long Term Democratic Majority
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3611078&mesg_id=3611078

It is dropping like a stone.

With a title like that, you'd think people would at least want to open the thread and glance at it--but the number of reads suggests not.

It doesn't glitter enough--and it smacks too much of effort. The title suggests the post might as people to actually do something, and way too many people, even on our side, still think of politics as entertainment or as a spectator sport. The reads go to the posts that offer the sort of entertainment value found in the MSM's focus on Anna Nicole Britney's missing underwear.

[Hydra]

12. If it's still fascism

in 2009, I'm leaving. Gone. Finito.

On the other hand, I'm still holding my breath that Gore will jump in and steal it.

It's really too bad- Hillary used to be my hero. This would have been a cheerworthy moment, if it didn't herald a disaster not much better than where we are now.

[bvar22]

13. DU 2009 will be more interesting.

Some will leave DU believing that with Hillary in charge everything will be just peachy.
All of the campaign shills (paid and unpaid) will disappear overnight.
The average IQ of DU will increase with their departures.

For others, the fight for the heart of the Democratic Party will continue on DU and elsewhere.
It may even get more vicious AFTER 2009.

I WANT the Democratic Party to be on notice that we are watching every move, and they will be held accountable.

The base has proved that they can marshall their resources via the INET, and remove CorpoDems from their seats (Lieberman, ex chair of DLC). Democrats are being (angrily) forced to defend their votes that run contrary to popular Democratic values. I am optimistic that the trend can continue. It will be a long, hard fight to wrest Party control from the well funded and entrenched CorpoEstablishment.
We are making progress.
I welcome the fight.

"First they ignore you,
then they laugh at you,
then they fight you,
then you win."
----Mohandas Gandhi

In 2000, the conservative (Corporate) Democratic Party Leadership (DLC) IGNORED the base to a disastrous end.

In 2004, they waffled between Ignoring and Laughing. The term "Looney Left Fringe" became more common....another disaster.

In 2007, open fighting between the conservative Leadership and the base has started. Pelosi openly attacked "protesters" last week.

In 2009....?



OTOH, something may happen to the INET. In that case, we are well and truly fucked.

In either case, I have hedged my bets by moving to the wilderness and planting a garden.


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.