Should education programs be cut so we can save Social Security?

[Deja Q]

Poll question: Should education programs be cut so we can save Social Security?

You know, the plan gutted so we could be in our rosy financial situation today?

[WindRavenX]

1. false dichotomy

NT

[gollygee]

49. Nothing more needs to be said

because that is exactly what is going on and I hate that kind of thing. We can't have education *and* social security?

[gateley]

2. We give them enough damn money to take care of all the stuff they're supposed

to. Start living on a budget like most of us do!

[Canuckistanian]

3. There's no selection for "Get bent"

I can't see any situation where such a choice is necessary.

[fenriswolf]

4. i believe both should be

increased and the DoD budget cut in half so that we can fund those programs as well as universal healthcare and alot more social programs that we need as well as build infrastructure (trust me cutting the DoD budget in half would be able to do that and more).

[Justitia]

5. There is nothing wrong with Soc Security that needs "saving". -eom

[BellaB]

6. If your talking about state

Education then yes. That should be the responsibility of state, city, and local taxes. The FedGov should keep their hands out of education. NCLB is prime example of that.

[Deja Q]

8. I was watching the local news and they had a quick blurb on the # of baby boomers retiring...

[Justitia]

9. yeah, the usual suspects are in "full scare" mode again. Don't buy it. -eom

[Swamp Rat]

7. The defense budget should be drastically cut so that we can fund many social programs

that have been neglected or discarded by politicians who are owned by corporations.

[terisan]

10. Cut "Defense"

[DJ MEW]

11. With out an educated and employed workforce who would be left to pay in to Social Security.

I know everyone does, but a Wal-Mart workforce isn't going to pay in to social security at a level that would allow them to retire on Social Security.

[Deja Q]

15. Yeah, when they mentioned how fewer people would have jobs to put in money,

(not related), I responded "Then don't offshore! Even you rich retired people want your social security too!"

[Squatch]

12. Abolish SS all together.

[Justitia]

13. and...uhhhhh....your back-up plan is......???? -eom

[Squatch]

14. Begin saving in Roth IRAs, 529 plans, and 401ks at an early age.

Seems to be working so far.

[Justitia]

16. So, how about all the retirees NOW? And the disabled? And orphans? And poor? And stock losers?

What about all those folks?

[Squatch]

18. Let's see

I have to:

Pay for my mortgage
Pay for my family's groceries
Pay for my son's education
Pay for my education
Pay for a whole bunch of other shit
Spend 12 hours a day at work

PLUS I have to pay for retirees NOW
PLUS I have to pay for the disabled
PLUS I have to pay for orphans
PLUS I have to pay for the poor
PLUS I have to pay for stock losers
PLUS I have to pay $ for future $ that will not be there when I retire.

OK. Hey...I pay SS every month dutifully like every other working American my age, KNOWING that the benefit I am paying for those people NOW will not be available to me THEN. When does the law of diminishing returns kick in, again?

[Justitia]

21. Why on earth do you think it wouldn't be available to you? Or your kids?

Who has scared you into thinking that way?

God forbid if you become disabled tomorrow, you'd be covered.
God forbid if your kids lost their parent tomorrow, they'd be covered.

And contrary to republicans who try to scare enough people to totally undermine Soc Sec, it is in good financial health, and if they don't destroy it, it will be around to supplement lots of citizens for a very long time.

edit for typo!

[Squatch]

23. If I become disabled tomorrow, I have already taken measures

above and beyond SS to provide for that.

I am not scared. I am a realist: I KNOW SS will not be available to me when I retire. The math is too simple and it points to a program that is unsustainable for the long term.

[Justitia]

26. That's great for you, but what if that coverage vaporizes? Then what?

Your only guarantee is Social Security. No private program is guaranteed no matter what.

And on the retire part, I think you have bought republican math and scare tactics, meant to undermine the perception of Social Security. It's a hell of a lot more financially secure than any of those programs you mentioned which are all underwritten by the stock market.

[Squatch]

29. Do you honestly believe that SS is *guaranteed* when you retire?

If so, I've got a bridge to sell you, brother.

[Justitia]

30. I do not believe that the stock market (& I have quite a bit invested there) is any safer than SS

If you actively invest, then you KNOW that. I've ridden it up and down for many years, in many different vehicles.

HOWEVER, Social Security is there to provide a minimum amount of income for everyone, regardless of whether they lose their ass (or IRA or 401k or pension) in the market or not.

And yeah, having done governmental accounting for a portion of my career, I'm professionally convinced of the sustainability of the program.

So, back to all those other people, unlike YOU or I, who are not so lucky -what about the current retirees, the disabled, the orphans and the poor? What about them? Or, as a society, do we just say "too bad, I got mine?" Fortunes change overnight.

[Breeze54]

37. Looks like you bought the bridge and the BS - hook, line and sinker!

Stop believing everything the RW lies about.

http://www.zmag.org/Sustainers/Content/2004-12/18weisbrot.cfm"> Social Security: It's Not Broken, So Don't Fix It

By Mark Weisbrot

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MiniMe]

46. I said the same thing in my 20's

That was during the 80's when they had the last social security debate. Well, now I'm 50, and its still there. I pay for my morgage too, and my grocreies, and a bunch of other shit. I have worked 12 hour days 7 days a week. I have been putting as much as I can afford into a 401k since my 20's. Guess what? I still don't have enough to retire. A year being unemployed and then taking a job for less than what I was making took care of that. And no, I didn't break into my 401k during that period.

Social Security will be around unless they do something to break it, like making it into private accounts which will bankrupt the system immediately. Does social security and medicare programs need some adjustments to them? Yes, but it is working. At least it was until * bankrupted the country. What about the people that had been saving their whole lives, and had been promised a pension when they retired, and the company did away with all pensions? Some people, mostly unions, may have taking a smaller payraise because of promises that were made having to do with pensions. What about people who worked for companies like Enron, who lost everything they had saved? SSI is not meant to be a sole source of income, it is meant to supplement your income. Unfortunately, too many people are forced to work multiple jobs and still live paycheck to paycheck because of the cost of things like food, gas, and insurance? Or the ones that have major medical bills that ruin all of their plans? Or a sick parent that needs care? Or a parent whos spouse dies suddenly? What happens if the stock market crashes?

For a government to work well, the government and the people take care of the lesser among us. Taxes pay for many things, infrastructure, police and fire departments, education, etc. I don't have kids, but part of my taxes go for education. Thats life. Your post sounds like a right wing talking point, its me, me, me. Not everybody is fortunate enough to make 6 & 7 digit salaries.

[wuushew]

20. Twelve Reasons Why Privatizing Social Security is a Bad Idea

http://www.socsec.org/publications.asp?pubid=503#3

[Squatch]

22. I didn't say privatize. I said abolish it.

[wuushew]

25. When do you think people will have time to properly research investment options?

what about people who work mulitple jobs or have night shifts? Since the government is completely out of the system I guess the invisible hand of the market must deliever our salvation yet again :sarcasm:

[Squatch]

27. Dude...that is the absolute LAMEST argument I have heard, yet!

SS needs to be preserved because people don't have the time to research investment opportunities.

You know what I did? I invest through a licensed and trained stock broker to do that for me. This isn't fucking rocket science, yano?

[alittlelark]

39. It's great when one has the $$$ to do so, as I do

I also have a Stanford MBA as a husband. Our accountant saved us from the Alt Min tax twice in the last 10 years. The other years we made out REALLY well.

We are doing very well.....


Guess what 98% of Americans don't have the resources I have to determine how to invest/save.

Your argument is embarrassing.

[Art_from_Ark]

41. Sometimes, those "licensed and trained stock brokers"

can make super big mistakes-- or be in on a scam.

[alittlelark]

36. Are you a 'Ron Paul' guy?

If not, look into him - he sounds right up your alley.:crazy:

[earth mom]

44. News Flash: Social Security is NOT broken.

That is what * & Co are selling to the country but the truth is is that it is NOT broken!

[Crabby Appleton]

17. Neither nt

[Fovea]

19. No.

Instead let's move to an all volunteer national defense force with the same proviso as the Japanese self defense force.

IE, no off shore adventures.

Then, let's divide the military intel budget to create the mother of all education, health, and security systems, and demand the same from anyone who wants to trade with us.

[madokie]

24. war funding is the only acceptable cut to me

[tech3149]

28. Absoluely not

If anything should be cut it's a totally opaque and bloated military budget. We have no primary state military opposition and thus no need for all the big budget items like Osprey's, ACBM defense shields, ans all the other war industry support.

[Mutineer]

31. Why do the funds have to come from Education?

Why not the billions we are spending on an illegal war in Iraq for starters?

[Greyhound]

32. 3/4 of a TRILLION $ for so-called defense? That is where we need to make

deep, to the bone, cuts. It is a thoroughly useless black hole that has destroyed our nation.

[splat]

33. Abolishing SS has been a GOP dream for 70 years; Why it yours, too?

You're drinking the Kool-Aid. We've already put it the money. Don't let them spend it on wars.

[fujiyama]

34. Make DEEP cuts in the defense budget

It's ridiculous how much we're spending.

We can use the money for SS, universal health care, AND education.

[Breeze54]

35. The only thing broken is that RW record!

Sounds like the RW gremlins are at it again! Trying to stir up
trouble and anxiety because it's getting closer to Election Day! :grr:

http://www.zmag.org/Sustainers/Content/2004-12/18weisbrot.cfm">Social Security: It's Not Broken, So Don't Fix It

By Mark Weisbrot

Four years ago Dean Baker and I wrote a book entitled "Social Security: The Phony Crisis" (University of Chicago Press, 2000). We showed that there was no financial, economic, actuarial, or other reason to be worried about the future of Social Security. The whole idea that Social Security would run into trouble when the baby boomers retire was an urban legend -- and still is.

Among others, The Economist -- a conservative British magazine -- reviewed the book and agreed. In fact no one dared challenge what we wrote. How could they? The numbers we used were the same that everyone -- including the current campaign of President George W. Bush -- uses. They are straight from the Social Security Trustees' annual report.

We hoped that our book would put an end to all the nonsense about how to "fix" Social Security. And indeed there has been some progress over the last four years. Last March, the New York Times editorial board stated, for the first time, that "those worried that Social Security will not be there for them when they retire are simply mistaken."

Four years ago, the idea of partially privatizing Social Security had majority support in some polls. This was partly a result of aggressive advocacy on the part of right-wing think tanks and politicians, backed by Wall Street firms that stand to gain tens of billions of dollars from privatization. These people had not only convinced most of the public that they would never see their Social Security benefits, but that they could get more for their money in the stock market.

More......

[Marrah_G]

38. No way, that would be causing more harm to the program

If you take away education you get a workforce who's earning potential is less and less. That means they contribute less and less to the pot. We need people getting more education so companies stay here and those employees will have more to contribute.

[TimBean]

42. Absolutely not

Education is the most important investment a country could make, Social Security is a doomed Ponzi scheme.

[Warren DeMontague]

43. Yes, if the Military Industrial Complex and Drug War are "education programs". nt

[Jamastiene]

45. That poll looks like one the Republicans would put up.

Who says you have to cut education or anything other than the bloated defense budget to save Social Security? Build the middle class and get rid of those Bush buddy tax cuts, and both can be kept solvent for years to come. He squandered the surplus already though. Now, we are screwn!!!11!!

Sorry, Toad, that poll is just fucked up. Cut neither. Save both. No backing down. :shrug:

[erpowers]

47. No Need To Cut Programs

From everything I have there is no reason to cut any programs in order to solve the Social Security Problem. Even when some of the right-wingers are confronted on the issue they begin backing off of the talking point that Social Security is broken. I listened to a debate, on Democracy Now, between the guy who was on CBS Nightly News last night and a more liberal economist. When the guy was push he mainly said the same thing the liberal economist was saying. The conservative economist actually admitted there really was not a problem with Social Security. He mainly stated that, yes, Social Security would have a great deal of money far into the future.

[Xenotime]

48. We need to stop the funding of these schools who plush athletics dept.

and poor labs and other facilities.

[truebrit71]

50. No. Cut military spending and save ALL the other programs...

...dead simple...turn the faucet off..and fund everything else..PLUS a beefy surplus...

This country spends more on military expenditures than the next 15 countries COMBINED....time to re-work the priorities...