Is The Use Of The Word Cackle Sexist?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

cackle
n 1: the sound made by a hen after laying an egg
2: noisy talk
3: a loud laugh suggestive of a hen's cackle
v 1: talk or utter in a cackling manner; "Hello!," the women
cackled when they saw the movie star step out of the
limousine.
2: squawk shrilly and loudly, characteristic of hens
3: emit a loud, unpleasant kind of laughing

http://dict.die.net/cackle/


P.S. I also posted it in General Disussion Politics by error...It received responses so I didn't delete it...

[itsrobert]

1. No, men can cackle too

There are many novels where "men cackle". I suggest you read more and educate yourself.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. Why Don't You Link Some Passages From Novels Where "Men Cackle"

And I suggest you take your patronizing remarks and shove them up the orifice of your choosing.

[FormerDittoHead]

6. The references are there. This has been already covered here at DU...

That aside, I agree that it's a sexist term.

[monktonman]

15. Perhaps...

And yeah that remark was a bit patronizing.
Thing is, when we point out political correctness, one would assume
we dont use incorrect political terms ourselves.
Stuff like "at my age its flattering to have all these men obsessed with me."
Seeing how its next to impossible to speak correctly all the time,
your point is trivial.

Oh and by the way, good morning!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. I See Your Point

But does that mean our discourse should be stripped of every innuendo, double entendre, or playful sexual reference...

I think "cackle" is a fighting word as in "Quit your cackling and get me dinner."


on edit- Good Morning

[monktonman]

39. Its more like "quit your cackling and get me a beer!"

Look, if someone was saying dont vote for so and so because women have no place in politics,
that would be one thing and it wouldn't be right.
Thing is, when you put your name out there, you have to expect your gonna get hit from all sides
in ways you couldn't possibly imagine. Does it make using words like bitch, whore, cackle etc. right?
Hell no, but thats the way it is. You cant cry foul every time you hear something you dont like and then turn around and use your gender when it suits you. If you do that, then all bets are off and you've given up your right to special consideration.

Instead of using ones gender as an automatic, built in weapons system, maybe one would care to
stand up on their own merit and answer the question at hand? Like "how do you respond to your opponents criticism?" I want real answers, not playful jokes. I'd expect that from any man as well
and if a man answered a question in that manner I'd think he was a phony.

By the way, I think the use of the word cackle in this case is meant to imply someone is
a witch. not a chicken.

[KittyWampus]

21. people on DU already googled "man" and "cackle"- HUGE number of hits.

They were posted.

[frogcycle]

30. but that's no reason

not to just start the whole discussion over again

Didn't you see "Groundhog Day?"

:sarcasm:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. I Googled "Man" And "Bitch" And Got 10,600,000 Responses

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=man-+bitch&btnG=Search

Does that make the use of the word "bitch" appropriate?

I hear men calling other men "bitches" more than I hear men calling women "bitches" nowadays but I don't use it because of its eytmology and the fact it's a fighting word...

[asthmaticeog]

55. Not a whole lot of hyperlinks to specific passages of published novels. nt

[BoneDaddy]

76. Guess what

stop cackling.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. Rich From Someone Who Can't Distinguish Between "Guessed" And "Guest"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3622624

[itsrobert]

26. Please stop. I'm cackling.

You're so funny. I'm sure you aren't taking this debate too seriously?

[durrrty libby]

35. What a load of craple

[itsrobert]

42. Good Morning

I see you're your old self. ;)

[librechik]

70. No, HENS cackle.

and if men are described as cackling they are being insulted with a feminizing descriptive term.

[janx]

3. Absolutely.

I pointed that out in a previous thread.

[Clovis Sangrail]

4. of course it is

so is the use of the words 'the' and 'it'

you just need to use your imagination

[leftchick]

5. bush cackles

every time he talks of death.

[Rhythm and Blue]

7. Yeah. I didn't think there was any doubt about that. nt

[Clovis Sangrail]

19. no doubt?

google results for "he cackled" = 30,200
google results for "she cackled" = 19,700

It seems that popular usage for the term heavily favors a male connotation.

[Rhythm and Blue]

25. That doesn't implies a male connotation, just a frequent appellation to males. nt

[Whisp]

61. a popular way to insult a man if to give him female qualities

on all those references from google for 'men cackling' - the context would most likely be in the same vein as pussy, bitch, etc.
mostly from what I have read, 'chicks' and villains do the cackling.

[Rhythm and Blue]

67. Absolutely correct. nt

[Clovis Sangrail]

84. chicks and villains? doesn't that mean

you think that it's not just about being sexist?
... or are all the villains female?

I'm a rather large bearded bald male who tends to wear engineer boots... for years I have been told, by friends, that I 'cackle'.

Are they trying to compare me to women or villains?
Or neither?

[BoneDaddy]

75. stop cackling

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. What Does Google Have To Do With It

I googled man and bitch and got 10,600,000 resonses...

[TheUniverse]

8. I've heard it applied to both Tweety and Hillary in the past couple of weeks.

Seems pretty equal to me.

[cali]

9. yes. of course.

It's closely related to shrew, witch and bitch. words that are used to describe women far, far more frequently than men. however, due to the rampant,er, antipathy for Clinton, you'll get plenty of folks denying it.

[NMDemDist2]

10. yes n/t

[rodeodance]

11. its a term of endearment for the most part (for some of my friends that cackle)

[Beerboy]

12. Anyone who says that someone 'cackled'

should pay a $10,000 fine and get locked-up in a hardcore Federal prison for 10 years. Let's see how funny it is then.

[Clovis Sangrail]

14. federal pound-you-in-the-ass-prison

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. I Agree

Anybody that uses the word cackle should be introduced to how to squeel...

[Bluebear]

17. "pound-you-in-the-ass-prison", is this supposed to be funny?

[Clovis Sangrail]

20. yes, it is. Watch 'Office Space'

[Bluebear]

22. Does "Office Space" offer rape humor?

[Clovis Sangrail]

83. watch it and find out

[Whisp]

63. apparently to some it is funny

to be raped.:eyeroll:

[The Inquisitive]

71. what?

:shrug:

[High Plains]

18. No. What kind of Saturday morning silliness is this?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. It Seems The Issue Isn't As Settled As You Think It Is

DSB

[KittyWampus]

24. yes, it really is. Google has already proven it's not sexist.

[itsrobert]

29. No use. She/He not only DemocratSinceBirth, She/he is

StubbornSinceBirth too.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. Is That Why DU Seems Split On The Question?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3626996

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. Where?

Because some random person said a word isn't sexist it isn't sexist...

What kind of logic is that?

[durrrty libby]

38. It is absolutely sexist. Deniers are liars

[durrrty libby]

40. Google as defense? How ridiculous. And it wouldn't hold up in court

[itsrobert]

44. I don't see Judge Judy

This isn't a court case.....yet.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. People Are Conflating A Lot Of Issues Here

You can find folks that will make an argument that ho, bitch, the n-word , queer, etcetera, are not inherently offensive but they are offensive enough to most folks that they should think twice about those words it or applauding their use...

[durrrty libby]

56. Common sense is a thing of the past

[L. Coyote]

28. Not when applied to a hen laying an egg!

Or, when it is true. Hillary's laugh was a delicious and subtle insult for asking a stupid question. I think it is a classic, and deserves a place of reverence in media history! It was NOT a cackle, and calling it that is worse than sexist. It is an insult to a really great response and a good, expressive laugh.

Or, we could just ban politicos laughing :rofl:

[Neshanic]

32. You are worried about a word being sexist? There are people here that

like show hosts yelling at a woman about ass kicking her.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

37. I Like To Kick Ass

But kicking a woman's ass wouldn't be chivalrous...

[durrrty libby]

41. If a guy tells another guy that he throws like a girl, is that sexist?

Hell yes, but I'm sure the delusional will disagree


Edit to add. I can't believe people use google as a defense. Silliness

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. Of Course

Why?

[durrrty libby]

52. Just comparative. I'm sure there are people who would deny

"throw like a girl"" is sexist

[High Plains]

93. Jesus, are you still on that kick?

Maher said he wanted to kick her ass OUT of his show.

[Lars39]

46. I think of a witch's cackle first, then...

"whistling women and cackling hens, neither will come to a good end."

[sandnsea]

47. Is crying "sexism" every time a woman is criticized

sexist?? Yes. I believe it is.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. If Mr. X

If Mr.X said Hillary Clinton will make her Democratic and Rethuglican opponents her "bitches" would Mr. X be sexist?

[monktonman]

53. Ding, ding, ding!!! Finally some sense!

Yes crying sexist everytime a women is criticized is indeed sexist in and of itself.
Whats worse is when you reply with something sexist in your own defense.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

54. Just Curious

Would Mr.X be sexist?

And I see a flaw in my question...I should have used the word "pejorative" instead of "sexist"...

For instance if Mr.X and Mr.Y are arguing on a playground and he says "shut the f--k up, bitch" he's not being sexist but he is using a pejorative word...

[monktonman]

57. You just answered your own question.

The word bitch in the modern age has nothing to do with being a female dog.
Its about being a whiney, sniveling, little, fraidy cat or a suckling, diaper sniffing, (I want to say mammas boy so bad) fart groveling, chump.
The gender notion has been sucked right out of that word.

Unless of course you use it on a women.
Doesnt make sense to me but......

[DemocratSinceBirth]

60. I Polled This At DU

It was the consensus that the word "bitch" was verboten because of its etymology or history . I had asked if it was appropriate to say "Hillary will make Rudy her bitch" and was instructed it was not. But as you have pointed out in another thread we give more leeway to those who use pejorative terms to discuss people we don't like...

PEACE

DSB

[durrrty libby]

62. That poster hates Hillary, so the opinion is tainted, therefore null and void

[monktonman]

89. You dont know me

I never said a bad thing about Hillary.
nice try.
Its the bots I dont like

[durrrty libby]

90. I was referring to the poster who responded to you

[monktonman]

92. ooops! My bad.

[yella_dawg]

48. Holy Shit!

You people are serious.


"Cackle" is a sexist jab, but prison-rape humor is funny.

No wonder I'm becoming a bitter misanthrope as I get older.

[Warpy]

50. It's certainly negatively biased

After all, had the laugh issued from a GOP, it would have been a chuckle, a chortle or a girlish giggle.

Face it, no Democrat will ever get a break from the corporate media.

[Quantess]

51. I'm voting "no"

because I don't want to give up my prerogative to accuse men of having "rooster syndrome". Plus, both men and women "crow" about things, in a figurative sense.

[Forkboy]

58. Depends on who you support.

[uppityperson]

59. I'd call it fowlist.

Fowl, fowler, fowlist.

[bread_and_roses]

64. Yes. (n/t)

[Quantess]

65. Humans, in general, should be compared to animals often.

I am serious. Humans forget that they are part of the animal kingdom.
So much of human nature is straight out of a rooster-hen relationship, and I wish that people would look at their own behavior, their own culture, and ask themselves, "do I really think I'm that much more evolved than a billy goat", and if the answer is still yes, then how about trying a little harder to act like an evolved human, and less like a barnyard animal.

[Annces]

66. Have you ever noticed

that making women into demons of all varieties is a way to suppress them and keep power in the realm of the male?

Advance of Woman by Mrs. Jane Johnstone Christie

1. there was a first matriarchy (if man had ever wielded power first, he never would have relinquished it);
2. females are pacific (women and animals too); old females governed once during a Matriarchy;
3. the Patriarchy initiated an age of strife, by “variable and fighting males” (p. 65) characterized by “self-gratification” and “general uselessness”. Once they learned the economic value of women, they refused to liberate them. They continually increased their demands for services, power and wealth;
4. civilization has allowed men permission to kill each other first, and then everybody else. Only muscle and force counted as women fell into abject slavery.
5. Thus, women were eventually demoted to “demons” and causes of all evil”; they were burned in India, veiled in Iran and shaved in Israel (and France in 1945).

[Quantess]

68. Interesting.

All of it seems true, except #1. Is there anything to back up the assertion of a "first matriarchy"?
It seems implausible that a society of cavemen would sway to reason over brute force. As I said before, humans are part of the animal kingdom.

I know that there have been examples of matriarchical societies, but they were the exception rather than the rule. The reason for that, is what I call "rooster syndrome", and probably due to the fact that humans are more like animals than we care to believe.

[Runcible Spoon]

77. what makes you assume that brute force equates "animal"?

there is no reason to assume that because early humans and their hominid ancestors were perhaps less "cerebral" that they utilized brute force over social cooperation. We see examples of altruism in the animal world constantly.

*on edit* the notion of barbarian cavemen is more a reflection of social norms to see them as such than it is based on any sort of scientific evidence from the archaeological record; there is a spectrum of depictions of pre-modern hominids and early humans that runs the gamut from burly monsters dragging their females around by the hair to peaceful hippie types sitting in a meadow of flowers sharing berries. These depictions tell us more about how we view ourselves in my opinion.

[Quantess]

81. Oh, I'm sure the early hominids had a lot of community bonding time.

Hugs, loving moments, singing songs while gathering wood, gently picking bugs out of each others' hair, etc. But, when it comes down to an argument, I would bet that the "alpha male" of the community would get his way, more often than not. I'm not by any means an expert on this subject, BTW.

The "animals" idea was just a tangent. Lately I've been thinking about how most humans are in complete denial that we're in any way, at all, like animals. People, (religious people especially) think it's a blasphemous idea, and that only humans matter. Reality says otherwise. The reality is that we're just glorified animals who think we're something really special, meanwhile, destroying the earth.

This sub thread sure went off on a tanget!

[yurbud]

69. Isn't it sexist that the book of definition is called a DICtionary instead of a vaginary?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

80. No-But Why Is It (His)story Instead Of (Her)Story

eom

[yurbud]

86. even worse, removing the uterus is a HIStorectomy--does that mean its for HIS benefit?

[yurbud]

87. and why do they call the cold sore virus HERpes instead of HIMpes?

[Sparkly]

72. If sexist is in the eye/ear of the beholder, I say yes.

It definitely strikes me as sexist, fwiw.

[JitterbugPerfume]

73. yes ,because

the first ingrained image of "cackle" implanted in our brains is the witches cackle.It is a very negative thing

[BoneDaddy]

74. Who cares

I find the word policing in here very scary at times. Not that you are necessarily engaging in it but if I want to use words like cackle, I will regardless of whether anyone is offended by them.

[Runcible Spoon]

78. Instead of linking dictionary definitions, think about the power of the word in usage.

while it can be effectively argued that this word has a history of being used to describe old, witchy spinster type women who are not "properly" participating in ascribed gender roles and behavior, I do not think that the modern usage of the word is institutionalized in common speech to the extent where it has widely contributed to the debasement of women. In short, maybe the history of the word has some negative connotations, common usage is not widespread or owning of enough negative power to constitute sexist speech.

[Deja Q]

79. I cackle and last time I checked, I'm a male. I can put up pics if you'd like too...

It is not sexist.

Noun definition #2, and Verb definition #3 are incontrovertibly asexual.

Noun definition #3 is asexual because it describes a noise suggesting a hen's cackle. The "hen's cackle" being the most obvious point of reference, and no sexism appears applied nor deliberate.

[etherealtruth]

82. Frequently

[Guaranteed]

85. No, because before people started breaking out the dictionary,

my understanding of the word was that it referred to a menacing and high-pitched laugh, and it applied to men and women equally.

I'd never even heard the word applied to hens.

Now, referring to a group of women as "hens" is sexist. But I don't see a strong connection between hens and that word, at all.

[durrrty libby]

91. Oh please you can't even figure out village. Cackle is way beyond you

[Norrin Radd]

88. No -- shriek like a harpy is.