Alleged explicit sex discussion lands mom probation

[Bo]

Source: Daily Register, Wisconsin

A Pardeeville mother accepted a plea agreement on charges she had a sexually explicit discussion with her two sons, even while she maintained she did nothing wrong and that she didn't understand why she was charged.

Amy J. Smalley, 36, said in court Thursday that she accepted the plea agreement in part because she thought it would be in the best interest of her sons, ages 12 and 16, in that it would spare them from testifying in court.


Read more: http://www.wiscnews.com/pdr/news/255942

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I thought the 1st Amendment protected are speech even in the home.

[TechBear_Seattle]

1. Never mind

I should read the links before commenting on the news. :blush:

[sasquatch]

2. I think she did a shitty job and maybe this counselling will help her

[TwilightGardener]

3. Reading the article, her oral-sex descriptions made her sons uncomfortable--

they thought it was inappropriate. I guess kids know when an adult crosses the line, even if it's mom.

[damntexdem]

8. Oh my, a teen felt uncomfortable discussing sex with a parent!

The idiots who brought charges against her should be fired.

[TwilightGardener]

13. It would never occur to me to describe the mechanics of oral sex

to my sons--never. And they would rather die than hear me talk about it, I'm sure. It's like that old saying about porn--I can't define it, but I know it when I see it--maybe these kids, the counselor, the judge, knew something was inappropriate when they heard it. Very hard to say in this case without being in the courtroom.

[pnwmom]

17. Exactly. This parent was pushing the boundaries.

But whether she crossed them or not, we're not in a position to know. She pleaded no contest to a lesser charge, so we'll never know more than the bare outlines of the case.

[JeanGrey]

22. I agree this was inappropriate. She probably knew what the boys

would say, hence the plea agreement. I too hope she gets counseling and the boys too.

[Wise Doubter]

32. Now, why would a boy/male need any description of oral sex ?

I(being male) would surely not need a description of what feels good!

SHEESH !:crazy:

[JerseygirlCT]

36. Even if they asked you, point blank?

I probably would, with consideration for their age. I don't withhold information when they seek it, but I do try to offer it in an age-appropriate way.

Better they hear a sensible answer from a parent, then learn from movies, videos and friends, I think.

[pnwmom]

16. And you can say that without knowing anything about

the psychologist's report or the sons' testimony. Apparently you don't think verbal sexual abuse is even possible.

Interesting.

[Festivito]

34. EXCUSE ME: "..but that is not what I did, .." she says.

Unless the article changed:

"That is what I'm being charged with, but that is not what I did," Smalley said. "I believe I'm not guilty."

Some kids hear about sex, are uncomfortable, excuse their own young feelings by adding things they've heard in a locker room in order to test how another adult reacts, talk to looking-for-trouble prosecutors who probably don't care about the difference between what a kid says he said with what he's willing to say now, perhaps, also, the kid not wanting to appear flippant, and now look at the possibility of having LIED TO PROSECUTORS. And now possibly face their own charges for lying.

So, a mother has to plea.

That's not just.

[JerseygirlCT]

35. I think it's pretty horrifying that a child's response to an

uncomfortable conversation with mom is to call the authorities. Where the heck does a kid get an idea like that?

There's something in this whole situation that leaves me deeply disturbed.

As a parent, I ought to have the right to choose when and how I talk about sex with my kids. The idea that a parent could be in trouble with the law about this is really disconcerting to say the least.

And also as a parent, the thought that my child wouldn't talk to me, but call the cops on mom... just too out of the realm of believability.

Something's not right in the whole situation.

[China_cat]

4. Isn't this one of the corners of the 'abstinence only' program?

That sex education should be a matter for parents? It wasn't a hands on demonstration but I don't think she did anything wrong. The parents who refuse to discuss sex with their kids are the ones who are doing wrong?

And "One of her sons told authorities he did not think the discussion was appropriate."? Can you -really- see a 12 year old or even a 16 year old using that kind of language. I can see one (or both) saying they thought it was gross simply for the reason that kids that age don't consider their parents as sexual beings and the thought of mom and dad fucking or having oral sex would be just out of the question...let alone even consider mom's vibrator.

[pnwmom]

18. How can any of us make a judgement on whether she did anything wrong

based on so little information?

We know that she described her own sexual behavior with a number of men, including oral sex, and showed a sex toy, and made at least one of her sons uncomfortable enough to tell a counselor. And that's all we really know, other than that she pleaded no contest to a lesser charge.

[shain from kane]

5. "Lick. Lick. Slurp. Slurp." " You nasty mom." n/t

[Der Blaue Engel]

6. Not knowing what she actually said, it's hard to judge

But I find the idea of these charges disturbing.

[damntexdem]

9. Hard to judge -- and totally inappropriate to do so.

And any judge who participated in this judging should be thrown out of office, as should the prosecutors.

[pnwmom]

20. That's ridiculous. You don't know what was in any of the case reports,

and yet you are summarily deciding that it is impossible for verbal sexual abuse to have occurred.

Do you think a father should be able to describe in detail his personal sexual practices with his young daughter? And show her sex toys?

[PetrusMonsFormicarum]

7. Let's ban all discussion of sex from anybody

and remove Animal Planet (or as I call it, Wild Porn Kingdom) from the airwaves.

Let's allow an entire generation to be raised without any idea of how their bodies work or interact with others. The way I see it, it'll either result in a drop in population, or a surge of babies born with no idea of where they came from.

I know these are just kids, but they sure sound like Thought Police.

[truth2power]

10. What appears to have happened

is that the kids went to counseling on another matter, and apparently related to the counselor what mom had said to them.

Probably the counselor, being one of the professionals mandated to report suspicion of child abuse, felt s/he had to report. I think the definition of child abuse has become so broad that almost anything suffices.

Not knowing the details of exactly what mom said, it's difficult to know how inappropriate it was. It could be a case of getting mixed up in the system and the whole thing just snowballing. :shrug:

[Bobbieo]

12. Truth - You are making sense here.

So, the kids brought this to light in a counseling session. I was wondering how the authorities found out about it, who snitched etc.

[pnwmom]

21. Right. It could be an unfortunate mistake in the court system

or it could be that the mother was the one who did something wrong.

We can't know based on the few details that have come out.

[JerseygirlCT]

37. Ah... ok

This makes a little bit more sense.

It's still a messed up situation altogether.

[terisan]

11. Same issue of that newspaper has story on US setting new record for sex-related diseases,

From link above:


ATLANTA (AP) -- More than 1 million cases of chlamydia were reported in the United States last year - the most ever reported for a sexually transmitted disease, federal health officials said Tuesday.

"A new U.S. record," said Dr. John M. Douglas Jr. of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

More bad news: Gonorrhea rates are jumping again after hitting a record low, and an increasing number of cases are caused by a "superbug" version resistant to common antibiotics, federal officials said Tuesday.

Syphilis is rising, too. The rate of congenital syphilis - which can deform or kill babies - rose for the first time in 15 years.

"Hopefully we will not see this turn into a trend," said Dr. Khalil Ghanem, an infectious diseases specialist at Johns Hopkins.
=================================================================


This mother may have brought one of her sons to counseling, thinking she was doing the right thing, and ended up being reported as a possible sexual predator because she had provided information about sex to her children. My guess is that she is a single parent without much money and feared losing her children to the state if she didnt agree to a plea bargain.

The fact that the state offered this plea bargain indicates to me that they knew their charges were bs but were providing cover for themselves and the counselor.

While there is no way of knowing the details of this particular case, I think an upper middle class parent would never have been charged.

[Stuckinthebush]

14. 12 and 16, huh?

Sounds like an appropriate time to discuss sex in all of its variations. Focus on protection is a good idea. Discussion of masturbation as an option instead of sex is smart.

Sounds like a wise mother.

[pnwmom]

15. Not if the speech constituted verbal sexual abuse.

And since none of us have access to the psychologist's report or the sons' testimony, none of us can know whether this parent crossed the line.

Do you think a father of a 12 year old girl should be able to describe his intimate acts with women and show her a sex toy in a way that makes her uncomfortable? Does free speech protect anything he might say to his daughter?

[TwilightGardener]

19. Yep--it's too hard to judge this case, but it seems open to interpretation

whether or not mom crossed the boundaries of appropriate behavior. If mom's motives were pure, then the punishment was harsh, but if she was getting some gratification in some way, then she deserved it.

[DuaneBidoux]

23. What if the girl asks? This is a tough area generally and our culture is schzophrenic

beyond belief. It reminds me of Joslyn Elder (don't remember her name exactly) who Clinton had to fire because she talked about teaching children it was okay to masturbate (and yes of course there where all kind of jokes about how kids probably didn't need instruction).

Generally speaking I am for the state treading very lightly into these areas. A father who senses that his daughter needs to and/or wants to speak about issue probably should get a female to do it if he doesn't have a wife, and perhaps the mother's judgment was questionable but again, I just think we must tread carefully here.

[pnwmom]

24. If the girl asks, that's something different.

All we know about this case is that one of the boys was uncomfortable. Maybe that doesn't mean anything -- or maybe the mother had gone way too far in describing her own practices. Since none of us can read the sons' testimony, or that of the counselor, none of us can know.

[izquierdista]

26. Jocelyn Elders

An intelligent woman who could have taught Bubba a thing or two about how not to get impeached.

[SquireJons]

31. Yes, sexual abuse does happen, but...

Discussing sex with your children is not sexual abuse. Ever.

Even if your darling little 12 year old virgin still believes in the stork. Oh, and the only sex toys that the vast majority of men have is their computer. If parents can not be trusted to discuss sexuality with their own kids, than no one can. I would sooner trust a parent than an adult with no connection to the children.

Wait! I've got it!

Let's let the priests do it. They're safe...

[frebrd]

25. Kids of 16 and even 12...

these days are normally pretty sophisticated. I suspect the one who thought the discussion "inappropriate" is probably being influenced by Fundies, one way or another.

[radhika]

27. I Smell a Fundie in the Mix

I can't help imagine some fundamentalist mind control is afoot. Perhaps pushing for abstinence only as the only approved type of sex talk, sex ed. Yeah, she may have been way-too-pukie to a child's sensibilities, but frankly most kids think any kind of sex involving mom and dad is way-gross too.

[izquierdista]

28. Coming back to bite them

Most kids are grossed out because they have not been taught that sex is a natural part of life. They are stunted in the pre-teen discovery phase where all they can do is snicker and giggle.

They will discover that they too, will quickly pass from being hot to not, and that instead of being sexy and ravishing, their desires for sex will gross out other people as well.

[SquireJons]

29. Only discuss abstinence with your children

Anything else is immoral and will get you raped before you are executed.

Oh, wait... that's Iran.

I grew up in a somewhat dysfunctional home, and I didn't get any discussions regarding sex. So, when I was twelve I "took matters into my own hands," you might say. I went to the local library and took out a book titled "Boys and Sex." It was a book written for adolescents, was very informative and fairly explicit. For the next 3 or 4 years, I knew more about sex (without having any) than my older sister or just about anyone in my school. I suppose it may not be too late to sue the author, publisher and public library system for "exposing me to harmful material." Criminal charges are definitely in order here, and I feel so used that I want to cry. But a with a few million and I should be alright.

The main point here is that parents do not have the right to educate their children about sex. Period. No talks, no descriptions, no pictures or anything. The job of sex education belongs with the government, and they understand just how dangerous sex really is. That is why they refuse to educate the young about it. Just say no, is definitely the best policy.

We should all learn about sex from the White House... specifically, www.whitehouse.com

(ya know, sometimes I realize that liberals are just as nuts as conservatives about a lot of things)

[sendero]

30. Ridiculous...

.... simply ridiculous. There is nothing else to say. The country is going insane.

[SquireJons]

33. gowing?

I'd have to say "gone insane."

[MagickMuffin]

38. I guess she's lucky she didn't get the felony charge

In the agreement, Smalley pleaded no contest to a misdemeanor charge of exposing a child to harmful material in exchange for the dismissal of a felony charge of exposing a child to harmful descriptions.
Columbia County Circuit Court Judge James Miller accepted the agreement and sentenced Smalley to a year of probation in addition to counseling — following the recommendation of Assistant District Attorney Crystal Long.
The felony charge could have levied a sentence of more than three years in prison and fines up to $10,000.

But what nonsense. I thought a parent was suppose to teach their children about "the birds and the bees." I guess we have headed down the rabbit hole of surreal proportions.

:cry:

[Mz Pip]

39. If I had done something like

this my two boys would have run screaming from the room laughing hysterically. I can't imagine anything more embarrassing than to have to listen to your mom talk about her sexual exploits complete with visual aids. But how this is a crime I do not see.

The kid thought it was inappropriate. Okay. But illegal?? She got busted for it? Seems to me that the whole situation even more embarrassing now for the kids since it is NOW IN THE NEWSPAPERS AND AL OVER THE DAMN INTERNET!

Way to go law enforcement!

Mz Pip
:dem: