Nowhere left to go...

[Joe Fields]

Last night on Countdown, with Keith Olbermann, Keith asked MSNBC political analyst Lawrence O'Donnell a question concerning the left wing of the Democratic party and its dissatisfaction with the Dem leadership, in regard to their handling of their opposition to the Iraq war. He asked if the leadership could count on the liberal wing to fall in line, come November, 2008, if there was no movement on the war issue. Would there be anywhere else for them to go, since the Dem leadership seems to have caved in? O'Donnell's answer? There is nowhere left for the left wing of the Democratic party to go. The Dem leadership expects the liberal wing to fall in line, come the November elections.

And THERE'S the rub, ladies and gentlemen.

For decades now, our wing of the party has been completely ignored, after election time. It has been the same with African Americans. The Democratic leadership has counted on getting nine out of ten registered African Americans to vote Democratic, and then, when they have dutifully fulfilled their obligation, are treated like strangers. They as much tell the African American community, "Thank you very much. Now go away and don't bother us. We'll let you know when we need your support.

It's been the same with liberals, since the Vietnam War. We have carried the party's water. We have done their bidding. We have gotten little notice, in return. We spoke with loud and clear voices last November, but all we have received in return is lip service. While the party has gone about their business as usuall, we, the liberal wing of the party have been ignored, shunned.

O'Donnell is absolutely right. There really is nowhere for us to go. We saw what happened in 2000, when progressives left the party and voted Green. Third parties in this country just are not a viable political option. We know, however, that this party would be nowhere without African Americans and liberals, yet we get nothing in return for our loyalty and activism. And I am sick of it. Who does this party think does it's legwork? Moderates and centrists? Hell no. The heavy lifting of this party is done by people such as you and me. People who pay attention and care enough to donate time, effort and money to bring about party success. It certainly isn't moderates. And what is a moderate? Simply someone who hasn't paid attention an/ or who doesn't care. And let me tell you, after the Bush COUP in 2000, EVERYBODY should be paying attention. Everybody should care. We have, in very short order been led to war on a pack of lies, had the highest posts in every department of our government poisoned with cronyism, our treasury looted, incurred massive debt, had the wholesale exporting of good jobs, had our environmental laws eviscerated or completely ignored, secret energy policies put into place, civil liberies demolished, our right to dissent smothered, and many more grievous acts committed against our country by this administration, and yet still face the spectre of a very possible war with Iran. So, in the face of all of this, THERE SHOULD BE NO SUCH THING AS A MODERATE!!!

We, the liberal wing of the Democratic party, need to hijack our party for it's own good, as well as for the good of the country. We need to do to our party just what the Christian Coalition did to the Republican Party. The Dem leadership hasn't a clue. They are NOT working for us, or in the nation's best interests. We need to organize, from the grassroots on up, promote progressive candidates on local, state and national levels. We need to become more active. We need to become the kind of force that dictates that the rest of the party must listen to us. We gave them a clear mandate a year ago. They have ignored us, paying us lip service with phony baloney excuses. I am tired and fed up with it. In fact, I'm just plain tired. Many times this last year, I've thought about giving up completely. But I just cannot allow myself to do so. I'm 51 years old. I campaigned for Jimmy Carter, Michael Dukakis, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry, and a number of Missouri congressional candidates over the years. Never have I been to a point where I have been so frustrated and disillusioned. Our party has left us, and we must hold them accountable. I'm so sick of feeling ignored and taken for granted.

I refuse to buy into their game anymore. While I believe there is a difference between the top Democratic primary candidates, and the Republican candidates, I have to say, as I have watched carefully, that with Hillary, Obama and Edwards and Richardson, it looks like it will be "business as usual, while we will continue to be ignored. We should NOT continue to give these people our money, time or effort, in order for them to maintain the status quo. That is just not acceptable.

And yes, I may get flamed some for this remark, but I feel it's kind of like, at this point, the difference between getting your house foreclosed on, or getting your house charmed right out from under you by smooth talking con men. Either way, you lose. Stoned to death? Or shot by firing squad? Either way, you lose. One way may be kinder than another, but really nothing much changes. Yes, of course I would much rather have a Democrat in the White House. But don't anyone here think that it won't continue to be "business as usual." It just won't be an all-out frontal assault on our liberties and beliefs.

I have hitched my wagon to Dennis Kucinich, and will work hard to get him nominated. I really believe that if people gave him a serious look and voted their conscience, he could draw the support necessary to win the whole shooting match. This is not a rant, with a veiled endorsement of Dennis Kucinich thrown in. This is simply one man's (one progressive man's) honest assessment of the candidates, and true belief that this party, this country needs someone committed to upholding the constitution, committed to the best interests of the people of this country, and committed to peace. Do no those qualities fit hand in glove with "progressive" values?

Labor unions became organized, holy roller fundies became organized, and we need to become better organized, so that we too, will be a force that our party can no longer ignore or take for granted.

[demnan]

1. I gave you a recommend

mostly because I could have written that myself. I feel exactly the same way you do. I'm frustrated. Now I'm working for Dennis and that feels good. But I know he won't win the primary. After the primary what will I do? You guessed it, the local Democratic organizer will call me and say, "hey Nancy, come out and canvas for (Clinton or Obama) this weekend." And I'll go.

Maybe I'll go to work for Mark Warner's campaign or something, just so I can feel good about what I'm doing, but Warner is another Democrat who is big money, basically, and I think that is the root of our problem. Still I know he will win.

But I'll be there just as always. Fool me once, will get fooled again!

[Joe Fields]

6. I, too, will be there for the eventual nominee.

Seriously, O'Donnell was right. Nowhere for us TO go... I will be there for Hillary or Barack or John Edwards, but I won't like it. I will be hopeful, but I am old enough and wise enough to see the writing on the wall. Hope for the best and really expect nothing.

[Cobalt-60]

56. The Republicans have t o go

I'm less than pleased with the performance of our Party.
But they're a damned sight better than the Nazis they're up against.
We'll deal with the collaborators later.
For now everything depends on shitcanning the Fascists.
The Republican Party needs to suffer a gigantic beat down, if only to show the rest of the world that we aren't them.

[tomg]

114. I feel the same way.

I feel like one of those dispossessed people by the side of the road ( you know, the ones the dems
used to stand up for), except my sign says "Will work for hope."

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. You hit the nail on the head

When I went to my local Democratic Committee, and found out that they weren't going to support any Democratic candidate for President who wouldn't let them have their guns, I said, what's the use of doing anything locally?

I'll donate to the Kucinich campaign, but I know that there are no liberal Democrats, or even any real Democrats, really, at the local level where I live.

And no, I won't try to get into the committee. It is run by people who will burn you out or shoot you if you try to take away their "power".

[Joe Fields]

8. That is a shame. I realize it isn't a viable option in some sections

of the country. I know that in many rural areas, for Dems to gain a foothold in state politics, they promote guns. (nothing more than "pander bears, IMO.)

[benEzra]

14. Is Russ Feingold a "pander bear"?

Wanting to take the guns of the working class isn't historically a progressive value; it's a conservative one. And it's primarily the DLC, not liberals, that has been pushing the ban-more-guns thing for the last decade.

The Conservative Roots of U.S. Gun Control

And were it not for Dems who ran pro-choice on guns in 2006 and WON, the Senate would still be red.




------------------
Dems and the Gun Issue - Now What? (written in '04, largely vindicated in '06, IMO)

[truedelphi]

92. I agree with you on that. For instance, Blacks tend to own guns

When they live in bad neighborhoods - it is almost a necessity.

The police will take their time to respond. Hours sometimes.

Yet that same Black person is not going to vote for Bush. Especially NOT after what happened in the wake of Katrina and the government's genocidal response.

[Doctor Panacea]

94. I am with you, benEzra

I am with you on this issue, benEzra.

Lots of Democrats and progressives are gun owners. I am one.

We do not want gun ownership to become a wedge issue in the Democratic Party.

[whistle]

69. That is certainly the case in Orlando Florida, the DINO capital of the country

[catmandu57]

3. I tell you

if i could find someone who talked domestic, who's main concern was fixing the imbalances and infrastructures, someone who could get the couch potato up off their lard asses to vote, I'd throw all of the support I could to them.
Really, when you stop to think about it, if someone could get the apathetic, disaffected, dancing with the stars and american idolers up off the damn couch to the polls to vote they would crush the both of the parties.
If we would change our election to a weekend, from Friday to Sunday, use mail in voting we could get more people to at least attempt to give a shit.
What are we going to do? I'll hold my nose, vote for the corporate candidate, and bitch when they ignore us again in 09.

[CrispyQ]

4. Hear, hear!

"...if someone could get the apathetic, disaffected, dancing with the stars and american idolers up off the damn couch to the polls to vote..."


To the OP: I feel exactly as you do. I'm so disgusted at the majority of the democratic party. I canvas my neighborhood & make calls to remind people to go to the pols, contribute my hard earned dollars to dems, only to have the dems in Congress snub us. Impeachment is off the table? That sends the message that this administration, & those that follow, are above the law. And that is exactly how they are behaving by passing The Patriot Act, The Military Commissions Act of 2006, The Warner Defense Bill, and the many other odious bills that have passed.

[Joe Fields]

27. That is a huge problem we face now. Too many people not engaged

in what is going on in this country.

And the double whammy, is that is exactly what the ruling class wants. They couldn't hold up to the scrutiny of entire adult population which is aware.

[DutchLiberal]

103. I think Kucinich will get many young and/or disaffected voters out,

who normally wouldn't vote.

[Joe Fields]

116. I think so. But, if he doesn't win the nomination, that will keep a lot

of voters home.

[ourbluenation]

5. eh - one person's "fall in line" is another persons good strategy for beating the GOP. and who's...

this "us" and "we" and "our" you're referring to? That's the kind of language that makes me think someone thinks I should fall in some sort of line.

Dennis K. is one of my hero's but two bits says he cannot win in the general. no way, no how. The last time there was a liberal dem nominee, a riteous man to be sure, he got crushed in the general by a landslide. Outside of the DU, the country, by and large, is right down the middle. With all these pieces of the puzzle, including SCOTUS appointments, seems to me that I'll be going with someone more electable in the general. But hey - that's just me.

[Joe Fields]

10. I didn't stutter, nor was I ambiguous.

[ourbluenation]

11. yes, I know. n/t

[John Q. Citizen]

41. Ever hear of Pew Research? Check their website. Dennis is as mainstream as it gets,

in his issues and his solutions.

Just because the corporate media wants to pretend that they represent mainstream views, don't buy into their big lie.

Look at the data, first, then tell me the one candidate who has all the majoritarian issues and solutions is somehow on the fringe.

[tomp]

63. this cannot be repeated often enough. thank you! nt

[ourbluenation]

100. wanna put your money where your mouth is? and know that I WANT to lose this bet.

I want to be wrong about DK's electability.

Re: the PEW. I've always believed tha tpeople are more liberal than they think they are, by and large. I wonder if DK was specifically mentioned in the PEW poll, or was a liberal thinking type of measurement thing?

[John Q. Citizen]

110. People in this country tend to describe themselves as moderate or conservative,

but when you ask them how they stand on issues, the majority are right where Dennis Kucinich is, and sometimes by fairly large majorities, depending on the issue.

Pew has been doing social research for the last 30 years or more, so they have a large bank of data on how Americans think.

That may not translate out to Dennis' easy electability though, because most people don't have any idea where any candidates stand on the issues.

My point is that Dennis is very mainstream in his platform. That doesn't mean that most people are aware of that fact, especially when the media keeps repeating the lie that he's somehow far to the radical left and the media doesn't bother to examine or explain his platform.

I guess it comes down to diamonds and pearls instead of issues and solutions.

[Phillycat]

78. I agree with every word of this post.

Well, except "riteous". That's not a word. :D

But I agree with the SENTIMENT of every word of this post.

[Nightjock]

7. Why does this only have nine recs?

Everyone on DU needs to see this! When I heard it last night, I was fuming. (Although in my heart I already knew they were ignoring us.)
This is complete and utter bullshit! I wish we had someone to work for that would rescue this party. I am so tired of "the lesser of two evils."
F**k you Pelosi!

[Joe Fields]

9. I'm like you. In my heart, I knew this to be true, and have known for

quite some time, but to hear it on national t.v. I could almost hear Pelosi and Reid saying it in private. I was so angry that I could not watch the rest of countdown.

[dysfunctional press]

12. i am NOT 'falling in line' ANY MORE.

i WILL NOT vote for a dlc dino for ANY OFFICE, EVER.

[Joe Fields]

13. It's a sorry state off affairs we are in, to be sure.

At a time in our history when we need leadership the most from our party, they have abandoned the people of this country, serving to give tacit approval to this most criminal of administrations.

In short, our dem leaders would fuck up a wet dream.

[Individualist]

71. Ditto!

[mmonk]

15. I hear you.

I'm 51 and growing tired of being taken for granted as well while I watch this country go down. Dennis Kucinich is one that will fight for the right things, not for a jingle in his pocket and a golden parachute with someone he sells the country out to in the end.

[Joe Fields]

21. It has to stop somewhere. I would like for it to be here and now.

Not sure how much more of this Americans can take, before they start looking for the exit.

[mmonk]

29. I will hit them if Rudy Guiliani is elected.

It is over then. And all because the democratic leadership didn't make the constitution their stand instead of impeachment is off the table. I get tired of writing, faxing, and calling members of congress and the press. It's not how I make a living.

[Me.]

16. It Is A Question I Have Been Asking Myself Today

After hearing that discussion last night, where are we gonna go?

[lonestarnot]

20. Dennis...

So I missed an Olberman show.

[Joe Fields]

22. I know. I saw your thread. We posted close to the same time.

(took me an hour to write my little rant.)

How much more of this are we going to be willing to take?

[Me.]

33. Great Minds

Share the same anxiety? :)

[K Gardner]

17. Thank you for speaking from the heart... it echoes mine

I fought my own little war after the stolen election of 2000, here at my computer, chronicling day after day the atrocities. Then there was 9/11. Then there was Iraq. And I thought, dear god, this country couldn't possibly last another four years under this regime. The Democrats won't let it happen. But "we" fucked up again, and so we had the agony of election night 2004. My heart broke, something inside my soul just died. I went underground for years. I literally turned off the TV, quit reading the news, quit posting.. I quit thinking. I couldn't bear too.

I wonder how many in this country are like me. Afraid to hope, afraid to care. This is my first step back into the fray... coming here to DU. And I agree with you completely. It canNOT be Democratic Politics as usual. But we have to form a concensus, stop bickering amongst ourselves, and unite like the freakin Republicans do, to take this country back. Thank you again for your post.

[Joe Fields]

24. The last time I drank any alcohol was the day following the 2004 election.

It hurt so bad, I went out that morning, bought a fifth of Jack Daniels, locked myself in the house, gave my car keys to my wife and proceeded to get slobbering drunk. I didn't even want to be able to think.

[warren pease]

18. K, R and agreed completely...

Trouble is, I'm older than you and my patience is just about exhausted. I've absolutely had it with the alleged democratic leadership -- useless, enabling, corporatist, candy assed self-preservationists that they are. They wouldn't know actual leadership if it came up and peed on their ankles.

I suspect the primaries are going to be interesting on the local level. There are a few progressive organizations out there actively recruiting and financing "electable" leftish candidates and running them against GOP-lite incumbents. I sincerely hope that at least 100 DLC types in the House and Senate go down in flames, and that they're made to understand exactly why that happened.

The fundies spent much of the '70s and '80s running so-called stealth campaigns for school boards, city council seats, water board memberships, county boards of supervisor positions and a ton of other under-the-radar kinds of nominally non-partisan offices. Then they parlayed their "experience" into seats in state legislatures and, eventually, some of them made it to the House and Senate.

The left needs to adopt that exact model. It's a long-term strategy and won't result in any great changes on the national level for maybe a couple of decades. But it works, as evinced by the 1994 Gingrich-led congressional takeover by wingnuts and religious fanatics and their contract on America. If the game begins now, at least my granddaughter may reach adulthood in far more enlightened times.

Meanwhile, I don't really know how I can possibly support Hillabarackwards in the general election. Once again, I suppose I'll hold my nose and vote for the dem because they don't suck quite as bad as their GOP doppelganger. But that's the absolute best I can say about them, and that's a pretty sorry excuse for an endorsement.


wp

[Joe Fields]

26. You are exactly right. We wouldn't be able to see the fruit of our

labors for years, maybe a couple of decades as you suggest, but that is the playbook we need to adopt. I have a 20 year old son, and I hope he may see a more enlightened age when he is 40.

[Mythsaje]

39. I've said that exact thing several times in the last few months...

But I have a feeling you might already know that.

:D

[tomp]

65. any races in particular? i might donate to progressives. nt

[warren pease]

85. Yeah, but I need to dig through my email inbox for a bit...

I'll send you some links as soon as I can find them. And thanks for asking.


wp

[Truth2Tell]

87. Try Mark Pera in IL

vs. Dan "the DINO" Lipinski, http://www.markperaforcongress.com/

or Randi Scheuer in IL vs. Melissa "I love Bush" Bean, http://www.freethedemocrats.com/

or Robert Nowak in GA vs. Jim "more war please" Marshall, http://www.nowakforcongress.com/index.php

or Gretchen Clearwater in IN vs. Baron "repub lite" Hill, http://clearwaterforcongress.com/

or Donna Edwards in MD vs. Al "blue dog" Wynn, http://www.donnaedwardsforcongress.com/

For starters. I'm sure there are more out there.

[warren pease]

102. Here's a good place to start...

Progressive Majority has candidates running for all kinds of seats all over the country. You can see the entire roster here.

You can also see a list of the 103 PM candidates who won in 2006. Just click on the "Meet the Candidates" button at the top of the page.

There are a couple more orgs. doing the same kind of work, but I don't think they're as well organized. I'll see if I can find links for them a little later.


wp

[Joe Fields]

105. Thanks for the link.

I will be spending more time concentrating on getting a "progressive majority" within our party. Again, much thanks.

[Le Taz Hot]

118. Cool link!

Other than Kucinich, I've nowhere to send my meager campaign $$.

[BornagainDUer]

19. A -faackin'-greeed. K&R!

[rocktivity]

23. I decided long ago that I would not vote Hillary in the primary

precisely because she's too anti-progressive and cozy with the DLC and lobbyists. I want a candidate who offers us the best chance of putting an END to the corporate stranglehold, especially now that it looks like Bush want to mess up as much as possible before he leaves--IF he leaves.

:headbang:
rocknation

[ms liberty]

25. K&R. n/t

[fascisthunter]

28. They Shouldn't Assume Anything (nt)

[FloridaJudy]

30. Amen

Unfortunately, I may not have a voice in the primaries: Florida is being punished for moving its primary forward, so Democratic votes won't count. I'm forced to consider registering as a Republican for the first time in my life (and my Socialist mother is spinning in her grave!). I'll probably vote for Ron Paul, and then switch my party affiliation again the day after the primaries.

But Dennis is definitely my man. {sigh} I wish I could vote for him.

[kestrel91316]

31. If we don't see some changes come 2008, I am liable to swear off

politics altogether and say "Let the American people have the fascist dictatorship they obviously want".

We have the power to throw the Repukes and the Vichy Dems out, and if we don't I may just say "FUCK IT ALL".

[Joe Fields]

32. I've threatened to do that several times. I have found I can't.

It's been hardwired into my dna.

[tomp]

67. it's an extremely difficult choice to make. nt

[blm]

34. I support ONLY anti-corruption, open government Democrats and have withdrawn

support for any Democrat who sides with the secrecy and privilege of closed government.

Grow the numbers of the open government left - STOP SUPPORTING any 'Dem' who sides with closed government - they really aren't Dems anyway.

[Joe Fields]

35. If we all shared that purpose, blm, can you imagine the effect?

We would have the axe handle, with which to lay squarely between the ears of those fucking donkeys in Washington.

[blm]

83. Those aren't donkeys - they are elephant snakes wearing donkey masks.

.

[sellitman]

36. Best post I've read here in some time!

Can I post this with links here on my blog and a forum I frequent?

Bravo!

[Joe Fields]

38. I would be honored.

[LWolf]

37. K & R n/t

[bonito]

40. A sad K&R

At this time but it doesn't change my determination.

[bvar22]

42. What are they gonna do....

What are the Liberals going to do....
vote for a Republican?!!!! Hahahahahahahaha"


”Unlike other candidates, I am not funded by those corporate interests.
I owe them no loyalty, and they have no influence over me or my policies.” ---Dennis Kucinich

[Joe Fields]

46. very apropos...

I'm keeping that picture and caption as a stark reminder.

[countmyvote4real]

43. Do you really think Edwards would be business as usual?

I saw that Lawrence O'Donnell comment and had a similar reaction. We have to support more progressive Democrats (especially during primaries.) We have to get involved in our local Democratic organizations.

I do like Kucinich, but I think Edwards is about change, too.

[Joe Fields]

47. Nobody is perfect, but when Edwards was in a position to do something

when it counted, he let us all down. My guess is he didn't read the IWR or the Patriot Act. There was too much at stake. To not do that simple thing, or not understand the ramifications and consequences when it really mattered should make a difference to us. It's like Kucinich said in this last debate. Why not vote for someone who gets things right the first time? At least he read the Patriot Act.

[countmyvote4real]

49. That's a very valid and fair point.

I like to believe that people can change for the better. That includes leaders. I appreciate that someone can openly admit that they made a mistake and learned from it. I've not heard that from HRC to the point that I believe it. On the other hand, Edwards has convinced me that he means it on many levels.

And yet I understand your cynicism. If I take a couple steps back I could very well feel the same about any candidate. And yet, if you want to choose based on their voting record, Kucinich wins hands down.

[Joe Fields]

51. I believe that John Edwards is a good man. I believe that Kucinich

would make a better president.

[HooptieWagon]

117. Edwards didn't read the IWR?

Hell, he was a co-sponsor! He knew damn well what it said and what it was allowing chimpolini to do...

[gizmonic]

44. Joe, I've just donated to Dennis because of your post.

Thank you!
:applause: :applause:

[Joe Fields]

48. Thank you, gizmonic, and let us just hope that with some hard work

and a little luck, we will be able to smile at all of the pundits who tried to make this a two horse race, with the coronation going to Hillary. All this, before the first primary vote has been cast. With help like what you just displayed we can make Dennis relevant to the MSM. We CAN do it. We must do it.

[dweller]

45. well put

:kick:

completely with you on this.
dp

[Ricki]

50. k&r

excellent post. The Republicans cater to their base but not the Dems.

[Skittles]

52. THANK YOU

you speak for me: as a liberal I feel completely alientated not just from the Democratic Party but from my own g.d. country :(

[Joe Fields]

53. We've got to fight to turn this thing around. We may not get what we

truly need in '08, but we are the backbone of this party, and we must be heard somehow. We can no longer afford to be a part of the dlc party line. The need to cater to us, and I know there are many here on DU that work hard at the grassroots level to place progressive candidates at the local levels, but I think the only answer is better organization, witholding money from the dlc, in favor of candidates who better suit the needs of this country. I believe, from the responses to this thread that we can get motivated enough to do it.

[bvar22]

74. The DLC has all the money they will ever need.

The DLC is a conservative Democratic think tank funded by Wall St and the CEOs of Fortune 500 Corporations. They were founded by rich Republicans and Warmongers (PNAC) to buy their way into the Democratic Party and change it so that it is more Corpo "friendly". The DLC does not have any grassroots, and (as far as I know) does not take donations from people who Work for a Living. They meet in a boardroom.

The DLC DOES have two front organizations within the Democratic Party, The DCCC and the DSCC. These organizations DO take donations. Their "stated" mission is "to get more Democrats elected", but those of us who have seen their work know what their REAL mission is: to get more Republican-Lites DLC elected.

Both (DSCC & DCCC) have intefered in local Primary Elections by torpedoing the campaigns of local grassroots progressives. They target Democratic Primaries that show positive signs of nominating a TRUE Progressive or Populist. Then they throw all the weight and money of the Corporations and conservative Democratic establishment behind their ProDLC imported ringer candidate in the Primary. They (the DLC) usually are successful in overwhelming the local grassroots Progressive, thus ensuring an expanding conservative voice in the Democratic Party.

If you Work for a Living, NEVER donate to the DSCC or the DCCC. Your money will be used against you!






The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[Joe Fields]

80. I should have been more specific, I guess. What I was referring to

was giving money to dlc backed candidates.

[bvar22]

96. I hear ya.

That is one of the better tools at our disposal.
ALL requests from the DCCC & DSCC are returned empty, and with a short note describing my opinion of the current state of the Democratic Party.
The DNC is still OK as long a Dean is in the chair and the 50State strategy is in effect. If the DLC is successful at removing "The Doctor" from his seat and enthroning one of their minions, I will stop supporting the DNC.

The BEST method is (as you suggested) supporting individual Progressive candidates with time and donations.

We must DEMAND that the DLC controlled DSCC & DCCC STOP intefering in local Democratic Primaries!!!


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[Skittles]

104. I agree

and I will never stop fighting....I hate it when DUers talk about leaving the country - I will never abandon my own country to these fascist f***s

[lligrd]

54. I've Always Assumed That I Would Support The Nominee

but I am no longer certain. For one thing, I think that * has made such a friggen mess that the next President will have to figure out a way to pay for it and it will not be pretty. If the Dems win we will still lose because the fix will be portrayed by the media as the cause of the pain and Americans will fall for it.

For another, I don't like being blackmailed and that is what some of the potential nominees are giving me. The "they will have to vote for us because they won't vote for the other side" rhetoric is wearing thin. As a lifelong Democrat, I sure would not vote for the other side but I sure might leave the President slot blank.

[Joe Fields]

81. The last part of your response is a question I've been wrestling with.

How do you send the democratic leadership a strong message without really damaging the party? Maybe it can't be done. They are tone deaf to us, and we really need to take a 2x4 between the ears of these donkeys in Washington to get their attention.

[eridani]

55. The absence of an all out frontal assault--

--will give us far more space to operate in. Do you really think that we will all go back to sleep like all too many did in 1993? I doubt it.

We all need to pay much more attention to local politics. Too many people on the left just gave up on electoral politics in the 70s--with a few exceptions like Wellstone, Kucinich, Sanders, etc. They started running locally and kept at it until they won and had some actual governing street cred. We need to make up for a lot of lost time, fast.

[MadHound]

57. So what to do?

We can all fall in line for more of the same ol' same ol' giving our implied consent to further war in Iraq and possibly Iran, implied consent to further corporate control of our lives and our government, implied consent to our continued slide to oblivion.

Or the left can try to take over from within. The trouble is that we've been trying to do that for years and decades now, and it hasn't done us any real good. We are systematically shunted from positions of power, our issues are ignored, and if we get any candidates in the running, the party politely ignores them, refuses them support, or actively works against them(Ned Lamont is but one in a long line of examples.

So that leaves us with a final lesson, and that is to teach the party a lesson. Show them in the most graphic way possible that not only can they not win an election without us, and that if they want our vote, they need to address our issues and stop taking up for granted. Personally, at this point in time, sad as it is, I think that this is the only option that we have left.

[Joe Fields]

82. I don't think we can get our leadership's attention, without teaching

them a hard lesson. And a hard lesson will most likely hurt the party in the near term. But, it may be the only long term solution. This is a scenario I've been wrestling with for some time.

[Broadslidin]

58. Nice thoughts. Considering the Money Manipulated Political Puppet biz set up since day One.

When the Elitist Sounding 'electoral college' fix was in,

the High Class simply devised a guaranteed
money rigged political puppet biz,
laughingly anointing a two political party biz
fronted by marketable irrelevant names.

Yet,
the "Bull Moose" continues to be reincarnated with
very rare persons such as U.S. Representative Dennis Kucinich.

Maybe,
when "Happy Days Are Here Again" is joyously played again
during a presidential inauguration,
the Great Unwashed Riff Raff will be heard again,
for a little while.

[Highway61]

59. Dennis needs to get the word out

So...If the people are watching Dancing With the Stars, Idol, SuperBowl....whatever...GO TO THEM. Commercials on these shows...especially his wife during the superbowl...sounds sexist? Yep, but you get the bonehead's attention. After all we need to reach out to the folks who are the end product of the "dumbing down" of America.
Unfortunately a LOT of $$$ is needed but it could work!

[freebrew]

60. Good article.

As a fellow Missourian, I know too well that there are VERY few left-leaning Dems here(rural MO).
I wrote the pres. of our local Dem org to ask about getting someone to oppose the DINO Skelton.
Didn't even get an ackknowledgment of my letter. And that was right after Skelton voted to give * more
eavesdropping power. Hasn't the bastard broken enough laws by now?

But, don't hold your breath waiting for the left to 'get it together'. The left makes more enemies within its own ranks,
until someone gets in a position to lead from the left(where are you now that we need you, Abbie) the left will stay
divided over issues that mean far less than war, poverty, regulation, et al.

I've been waiting for 35 years, it keeps getting worse.

[Joe Fields]

98. Yep, Skelton is a bight on the landscape of Missouri dem politics.

How long has he been entrenched in congress? 30 years? If I could, I would move mountains to change him out with a progressive dem. I am desperate to turn this state blue again.

[DeeDeeNY]

61. My reaction to O'Donnell was the same as yours

Very disheartening. It really is necessary to change the party from the ground up.
While I believe that any Democratic candidate would be tons better than any of the Rethugs running, I'll back Kooch in the primary.

[tomp]

62. that is indeed the rub.

i predict a breakoff of the progressive wing in the near future. i would heartily welcome that. kucinich has already suggested that he has conditions for supporting the nominee. i don't know which of the frontrunners will meet that demand (eschewing war as an instrument of policy).

i have seen many here state they will not vote for this one or that one in the general election. i have not decided yet but it is not out of the realm of possibility. the democratic wing of the money party (thank you, autorank) has failed us and failed america.

i voted for gore to stop bush (never been a fan of gore) and i might vote for cilnton to stop giuliani, especially since i live in new york.

interseting times indeed.

[The Stranger]

64. O'Donnell must be an imbecile -- just look around DU and the ever-present flame wars going on.

If the Democratic Leadership abandons its Base, as it has now, they can expect a third party candidate to derail their chances again.

That is why there is the constant fight to bring the Democratic Leadership back to the Base or to get the Base to vote against the Republicans despite being abandoned.

[mdmc]

66. It will get far worse before it gets better

HRC won't end the drug war, Iraq war, et al. Hopefully she will avoid war with Iran.

I really think that it will get worse before we have a real shift to the left.

We might need another neo-con president to really show that we need an alternative to corporate rule.

Time alone, time will tell.

[whistle]

68. That is the answer Dennis Kucinich all the way to the convention and beyond

P.S. why does the DU spell checker try to change Kucinich to something completely different like Grinch or Keypunch or Conch? :wtf:

[rAVES]

77. Keypunch 08!!!

[mirrera]

70. Instant Runoff Voting...

The only way we will ever have vibrant 3rd 4th or more parties is IRV. It is simply the only viable way to not have spoilers, but instead have candidates that pull ideas their way. Candidates would have to fight to be the second choice. If you had a 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice THINK how differently voting would look. How different campaigning would look!

I think the Left wing and the Greens and the independents need to fight for this legislation.

That said we could NEVER pass that legislation with a red flavored white house because they bring the criminals and spooks with them like dandruff. With a blue flavored white house, whether they like it or not, they bring us with them. We are their staff, we are the party in more and more towns. We must get in and then legislate for IRV and Paper Ballots and mandatory audits of all elections.

My 2 cents.

[rockybelt]

72. I couldn't agree with you more.

With their refusal to say that troops will be withdrawn from Iraq and their non-votes on crucial issues, Clinton and Obama have shown me that they are part of the establishment. Clinton can try to sound black and preach to us and Obama can put his nose in the air and orate about nothing yet they are mainstream and business as usual after the election.
Dennis Kucinich has proven by his voting record and his stand against big business that he actually is for the common American.
He is the only one, with 22 supporters, brave enough to introduce articles of impeachment against Cheney. Damned the consequences from the rightwingers and the WH.
I will help all that I can to get Dennis elected.

[f the letter]

73. Great post

i refuse to fall in line, now or ever again. The Kucinich / mainstream / Pew research posts are well-placed too. If the party hears our concerns, knows why we're so bent out of shape, but assumes we can be controlled into voting for a right-wing democrat based on the fear that a righter-wing republican is the only alternative, then fuck em.

As soon as every American votes for the candidate who should lead, this two-party / archright - right pendulum / financed system is done for. Start now, because the stakes are only getting higher.


by the way, does it bother anyone else that 'clinton' is in the DU spellchecker but not 'kucinich'

[MasonJar]

75. There may be a time in the future when we can overcome the problems

outlined in the above rant; however, 2008 is not the time. I will work my buns off for whomever the dems choose. After the past 7 disastrous years, we cannot allow another Republic president or Congress. The damage in the court system is already generating massively unbelievable decisions. I just pray that Stevens can hang on for another year, another 4 to 8 years is not going to happen. And of course the court is only one of the giant problems left by the Bush cabal.

[rAVES]

76. Yea its all well and good to "Blame Nader".. but its a symptom of a large problem with the party..

[femrap]

79. K and R...

Great Post. I sent some love to Dennis today via Master Card.

[parkerll]

84. Excellent Post

I feel exactly the same way. I live in one of the most red neck states (SC) and have already applied for my absentee ballot. I'll vote for Kucinich in the primary and write him in in the general election as well.

I'm through "holding my nose and voting". I consider that a sellout and I refuse to waste my vote in this way ever again. I feel certain the country will morph into a dictatorship regardless of which corporate party candidate wins. Listen to Naomi Wolf talk about her book The End of America.

Dennis is the only one who will even try to take us away from that. My support for him is as unwavering as his support for our constitution.

[sampsonblk]

86. K & R

[SHRED]

88. You struck a nerve...a good one K & R'ed!!!

[IsaiahTruman]

89. There IS somewhere to go....

Partisan Politics: Is it Really the Best Way to Determine Leadership?


"Partisan = n. 1. an adherent or supporter of a person, party or cause, especially one who shows a biased, unthinking allegiance." - Webster's Dictionary

So true, generally speaking.

Unfortunately, most people think partisan party politics is the best way to determine who shall have the power and authority of leadership. Each party chooses a competitor-candidate and hopes their "best man will win," and even the losing party hopes they will win "next time." Consequently, the divisive, polarizing, winner-take-all contest for monarchial presidential power continues, even though very few people actually determine who the winner is.

For instance, in American, only 60 percent of U.S. citizens age 18 and over voted in the 2000 presidential election, and far less than half of them voted for George W. Bush. In fact, five right-wing partisans on the U.S. Supreme Court overruled the Florida Supreme Court in order to put Bush in the White House. And, even in 2004, only 64 percent of eligible voters voted, which means that only about 32 percent of eligible voters re-elected Bush.

This is not the way to run a country, as should be obvious.

But, of course, most good, liberal progressives still think our problems can and will be solved by electing a Democratic presidential candidate and having enough Democrats in Congress to control it. But is that really true?

Granted, having progressive democratic leadership would certainly be far better than having right-wing conservative Republicans in power, because Democrats are by far the "lesser of two evils." After all, most right-wing Republicans deceptively claim to serve all the people while they actually serve the interests of the wealthiest few, while most Democrats at least still try to serve the vast majority of people and advocate for those who need help.

However, having a democratically controlled Congress and electing a Democratic president will not really solve our problems ... at least not fully, and not for long. It would help only in the short term, and it would only keep the political pendulum swinging. Considering what's happened just in the last 45 years, it's easy to see it would probably just be a matter of time before it would swing back to the Right again. Another hypocritical right-wing demagogic scoundrel would probably take refuge in patriotism and religiosity, waving the flag, thumping the Bible and rattling his sword, and succeed in deceiving and misleading enough people to get elected.

But, even if enough voters were aware and informed enough to elect a good president, it doesn't necessarily mean our most serious problems would be solved. That's easy to see if you just consider that the election of Democratic President Bill Clinton in 1992 did very little to prevent or deal with the rampant political and corporate corruption that increased so much in the 1990s.

Clinton couldn't stop Reaganism, because Republican Reaganites controlled Congress during most of Clinton's term. In fact, even when Clinton could have vetoed Reaganite legislation, in certain instances he chose to go along with it because he thought it was politically expedient to do so (e.g. the so-called Welfare Reform in 1996). Thus Reaganism essentially prevailed and continued, and it has had an increasingly devastating impact for the last 27 years.

Unfortunately, a big part of the problem is that since the early Nineties many Democrats essentially "sold out" because they thought it was politically expedient to buy in to Reaganism, which is why Ralph Nader's criticism of "Republicrats" in the 2000 presidential campaign had validity. Most Democrats had moved to the right of middle, and most Republicans were (and still are) on the extreme right. Furthermore, even though that could have changed considering the crushing defeat of right-wing Republicans in the November 2006 mid-term election which finally enabled Democrats to control Congress, it did not change much at all. And even if it did make a difference, it would only be temporary.

It should be clear that partisan politics is hopelessly flawed. It is divisive and corrupt. It does not and cannot serve the interests of all the people. And part of the problem is that it is fueled by money, and 80 percent of the funding for the political campaigns of both major parties is invested by the wealthiest one percent of the population. And they get what they pay for.

We need a thorough reformation of government. along with a reformation of religion, to put an end to partisan party politics --- an end to the division and polarization, an end to the congressional oligarchy, an end to the juvenile competition for the "throne" of sovereign power, and an end to the presidential form of monarchy.

After all, why should we be divided and fight for power over each other?

Why should we follow, support and empower egocentric men who seek power over those who disagree with them?

Why should we be either winners or losers in a continuous, winner-take-all partisan contest for power?

Indeed, why should we perpetuate an unstable partisan system that creates, fosters and perpetuates conflict and division?

We need to face the fact that the American political-economic system does not produce government of, by and for the people. Not really ... especially not when 80 percent of all political contributions to both major parties have been made by the richest one percent of the population. In fact, it produces a winner-take-all contest for power, a congressional oligarchy and a presidential monarchy, with government of, by, and for the rich, regardless of which party wins.

Partisan politics also breeds and fosters dishonesty, greed, and corruption. It can turn otherwise good people into disingenuous and dishonest demagogues who launch misleading, slanderous attacks against each other. It perpetuates division and makes it totally impossible for government to really be of, by, and for all the people. After each election, we become either winners or losers, and usually about half of us are not represented by our government, while sometimes (like during the last six years) only the wealthiest few are represented.

But we can have government of, by and for all the people, and we will have it as soon as enough people get the message and abide by God's will. Then we will no longer be divided and ruled by a partisan "pretender to the throne." We will share the "throne" as equal joint heirs, and, at long last we will have government that is truly of, by and for the people. We will be able to govern ourselves, determine our own destiny, and use the common wealth for the common good.

That's why the message from the Spirit of truth is so very important. It shows how we can end the divisive competition for power, and instead share it as we should. (Read What IS the World Coming To?)

© 2002 - 2007 Joseph J. Adamson

Reposted from: http://reformationcomingsoon.bravehost.com/PartisanPolitics.html

[flashl]

97. Great post. n/t

[King Coal]

90. Well, then, vote for John Edwards. Seems easy enough.

[Michael101]

91. I'm on the Dennis Kucinich wagon....

and I refuse to get off, no matter what anyone or the media says. Those who choose Hillary Clinton are conformist.

They are afraid of change.

Today I'm proud I send $100.00 to the Dennis Kucinich Campaign because he is the only candidate who is going to work for the for the American People, unlike other candidates who will be working for big corporations.

[rAVES]

95. Replace "comformist" with sellouts and I agree 100%

DK For the Win!

[Gregorian]

93. I use music as a metaphor.

Most people like to listen to shit. Most people think what I listen to is shit. But I call is musical maturity. Sure I can listen to Frank Sinatra. Sure I can listen to Doc Severenson or Maynard Ferguson. Hell, one of my best friends was Maynard's lead trumpet player for years. But we listen to Miles. And Coltrane. And the Sex Pistols. And Belle and Sebastian. We listen to stuff they don't turn into elevator music, and repeat over and over and over on the crap commercial stations.

So why do people listen to crap? And why do only the musically mature listen to music that either isn't mainstream, or is "difficult" to listen to?

Because people don't think for themselves. They don't seek. And they do what they're told. And they don't discriminate. And they don't have vision.

[Gregorian]

109. I don't know. Maybe I'm full of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LId47zizlP0

Maybe all music is good. Even music for republicans- Lawrence Welk. No. Just sort of kidding.

[catmandu57]

99. After reading through the threads and letting the knowledge here

percolate, I've came to three conclusions.
(1) We're going to have to adopt a long game to get things set right, we probably won't see the results, but our children and grandchildren could. A true grass roots under the radar stealth campaign, like the religious wrong did.

(2) we've got to get the fucking money out of our politics. 100% public financing is the only way to go, get rid of the fucking lobbyists.

(3) We've got to change how America votes. No more of this electronic shit paper ballots and weekend voting, if it takes more time to count the votes so be it. We need more people to participate in participatory democracy.

[Joe Fields]

101. I agree with all three observations. It's imperative for us to follow the

playbook of the religious right. It upsets me to no end that they were so successful in their "under the radar" strategy, but we must recognize the value of their plan and adopt it. We must stop funding candidates who aren't progressive, and ideally, as you pointed out, public funding and time limits for campaigns should be adopted. (I added time restrictions, as I feel that is important. We are becoming a nation that is campaign weary, exhausted before the first caucus or primary vote is cast.)

[Solar_Power]

106. That's the premise of triangulation -- time for a real third party

[KoKo]

107. I'm voting for Kucinich all the way...writing his name in for '08...I've had enough

and my puny one vote won't throw the election...but I've had ENOUGH...and must make a statement. Dennis is a Democrat that I can support and so I must heed my conscience on this one.

[Joe Fields]

111. Amen.

[KoKo]

108. K&R..

[Audio_Al]

112. Hi Joe, Wonderful piece! Permission to use your description on our audio program...

We'll give you credit as a DUer. If we read your topic and responses, we'll give all of you DUers credit.

Respectfully,

Audio Al, your Radio Pal
Volunteer Host/producer on Oregon Public Broadcasting, Portland, OR

To read more about OPB's Accessible Information Network, or to hear the 24/7 programming through a media player link, please visit the following page:

http://www.opb.org/accessinfonet

[Joe Fields]

113. Permission granted, and thank you for those kind words, Al.

I appreciate that you think enough of my piece to put it on your program. I wish the word could be spread throughout this country that the level of dissatisfaction is reaching critical mass.

[Audio_Al]

115. Well, if it's any consolation, I wrote a piece back to the national Democrats as to why I would NOT

send them any money.

It was pretty fiery but I don't have a copy on hand.

They called me, too, last week, and I gave the poor fellow a piece of my mind.

And, as you can see from my footnote, I am working with the Washington County Democrats and have been for several years.

If it's any consolation, we are in the same place you are -- almost exactly.

Disgusted, depressed, hoping, listening, waiting. And in Oregon, that all we can do because our primary isn't until May 2008 and everything will probably be decided by then.

Respectfully,

Audio Al and wife Radio Lady