something to consider: Subject: Seinfeld vs M*A*S*H

[donsu]

-snip-


Subject: Seinfeld vs M*A*S*H
Buzz,

I belong to the Seinfeld generation, and frankly I am a huge fan of the show. I've watched just about every single episode several times over.

Recently, I started watching M*A*S*H. If I am not mistaken, a fair number of your readers are familiar with that show, and it may apply to those who control the content of this site.

What a contrast between your generation and mine. On one side we have the inherent decency of Hawkeye, as opposed to the selfishness of Seinfeld's character. Then there is Winchester, the pompous surgeon who despite his misgivings does care, unlike George who is neurotic. BJ, a.k.a Kramer, the kindly gentleman, eclectic, yet profound, serves as a
moral compass. Major Houlihan, the Eileen of the show, driven by her career, but her yardstick was the lives she helped save. As for Col. Potter, that would be Seinfeld's dad, only he was never obsessed with the "tip calculator."

I wonder what was lost in communication between a generation that was willing to sacrifice and my I-pod generation. Speaking for myself, I'd rather be in that mess tent than at the coffee shop!!

Akhil Bhardwaj
Phoenix, AZ
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[Atman]

1. Hmmm.

:popcorn:

.

[Donnachaidh]

2. you should read the MASH books

They were some of my favorite books when the original movie came out.

[SoCalDem]

3. Seinfeld--whiny/Mash--preachy

I preferred WKRP in Cincinnati :)

[donsu]

4. I'm puzzled -- explain Mash - preachy

nt

[SoCalDem]

7. The later years were "thematic and trite".. at least to me..

The first few years were funny, but I lost interest..

[youthere]

18. "as god as my wintness...I didn't know turkeys couldn't fly!"

[zanne]

5. That's why I loved the finale of "Seinfeld".

That said it all.

[DS1]

10. I just realized the Camus "The Stranger" aspect to that

*slaps forehead*

[supernova]

6. MASH is about ideas and morality and ethics

Seinfeld is self-admittedly about nothing at all.

Except for certain bits Seinfeld never captured my interest in a sustained way like MASH did.

[mitchum]

8. Seinfeld: "no hugs, no lessons" MASH: "lessons by a Groucho imitator"

[Annces]

9. The fact that we look to TV sitcoms

for moral guidance is really appalling. These are shows written by witty people, but with very little maturity or vision.

[havocmom]

12. Not fair to judge the writers so harshly. They were, after all, limited by what would sell

The advertisers and market are the real deciders about what goes on the air. Some of the best (IMHO) shows of the past 10 years had VERY short lifespans on the tube.

It is not necessarily the writers who have very little maturity or vision. That fault is more likely found among the audiences. Look no further than the huge mass appeal of shit like American Idol and all the recent copycat shows. It is appalling how use of the general (and mostly untalented) public to create 'shows' that just embarrass most participants can be so successful. They don't have much in the way of 'writers' and pretty much appeal to the more base parts of our brains. But they are HUGE and make lots of $$.

Meanwhile, books get less and less use. At least some of those actually had great writers.

It's the audience.

[Oeditpus Rex]

33. There's no implication that anyone *looks* to sitcoms

for moral guidance. Wise people find moral guidance where it is, often subtly.

[sinkingfeeling]

11. M*A*S*H was my all-time favorite. Not long ago, I came across a rerun of the

story of Hawkeye's mental breakdown and ended up staying awake until 3AM watching the reruns.

[havocmom]

13. One of my fav episodes explored prejudice, class, and preconceived notions

Using an impending marriage between Winchester's sister and a gentleman of more common origin, the lesson presented (with humor and grace) was very important.

Swarthy skin makes good kin

What a great line at the end.

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. MASH is still an awesome show to this day

[kineneb]

14. there is a certain gentleness in M*A*S*H

that seems to have disappeared from both TV and society. Perhaps Michael Moore had right in his comment about the "me vs. we" attitude.

[supernova]

30. MASH is the only reason

I keep the Hallmark Channel on my remote. :-)

Otherwise they can keep their other sloppy dreck.

[lame54]

15. In the early M.A.S.H. episodes Hawkeye was completely selfish..

he was a drunk womanizer who got laid all the time
when Alan Alda became a feminist Hawkeye was still a drunk womanizer but he struck out constantly
and came out looking foolish
The first 3 years of M.A.S.H. were hilarious and classic

[Oeditpus Rex]

32. A drunk womanizer who'd disengage from any situation

of drinking or womanizing to save someone's life.

The fictional Benjamin Franklin Pierce was the kind of doctor any of us would want and be lucky to have. Same with B.J. Hunnicutt, Sherman Tecumseh Potter or even Charles Emerson Winchester III.

The unwavering, underlying message of "MASH" throughout its 11-year run, and including the original feature film, was that human life is to be cherished above all.

[stillcool]

16. So I should be judged..

on what television shows I watched 30 years ago? And all this time I thought people were just people. It is amazing how much the consequences of a war...both WWII, and Vietnam have affected my life, defined who I am...but those loved ones who 'sacrificed' had no idea of the life-long, devastating madness they were signing up for.

[YOY]

17. I prefer Scooby Doo as my moral compass...

ZOINKS!

[Uncle Joe]

19. Although set in the Korean War, MASH was a statement

against the inhumanity of war in general and I don't believe the timing was coincidental that the program began not long after the tumultuous war with Vietnam.

On a lighter side if you enjoyed the comedy of the television series of MASH, I would most highly recommend the movie MASH, that is a classic, in my book.

I liked Seinfeld a few times but for the most part it just seemed rather inane to me and I could never really get in to it. Like much of T.V. programming it's purpose seemed more to tear people down rather than build them up. On a metaphysical level, I believe it helped to program the national psyche for the Bush administration as it seemed to glorify the shallow or superficial.

[Parche]

20. Steinfeld

Was the WORST show on TV, how many times can Kramer fall down? Not Funny at all
annoying, and Jerry's whiney voice is so annoying.
Julia Dreyfus cant act
:hi:

[MadBadger]

23. Whats the joke in calling it Steinfeld?

[Parche]

28. I Always Call Him Steinfeld

:hi:

[MadBadger]

29. I'm just wondering where that name came from.

[Parche]

31. Name

Oh, we have 'Steinfelds' pickles here in the Northwest.......:hi:
and i always called him that......

[Spazito]

22. Very interesting OP!

I must admit I was never a fan of Seinfeld, to me it was a half hour filled with one-liners, slapstick comedy with NO substance beyond very superficial, selfish issues. Who knew one could fill a half hour over a toothbrush, go figure, lol. (I am not knocking those who loved Seinfeld, it just wasn't my "cup of tea".

Mash, on the other hand, was and is one of my all time favorite shows. It had one-liners, slapstick comedy WITH very substantive issues to go with it.

Your OP certainly made me think about the difference and I was wondering if the change from substance to fluff in shows such as these two occurred around the same time as the change from news to infotainment and the takeover of the media by multinational corporations who's goal is NOT to encourage a thinking, informed populace?

[rucky]

24. If we're talking about the greatest of all time...

I Love Lucy

[MadBadger]

25. West Wing

The Sorkin Days.

[frankenforpres]

26. not a sitcom

but yes, the first 4 seasons are probably my all time favorite

[MadBadger]

27. Ahh, we're talking about sitcoms.

I rarely can put sitcoms anywhere near dramas on the all time favorite list.

But for me personally, I'd rank up there All in the Family.

[book_worm]

34. I love both shows, but feel both stayed on too long--MASH n particular.

[MadBadger]

35. I agree about MASH

But I believe Seinfeld had nine seasons, which is on par with most hit shows in terms of how long there runs are. They all seeme to have around 8-11 seasons.