Who exactly are the BONEHEADS who've caused the Democratic state primary fiasco?

[brentspeak]

So the DNC votes to strip the Michigan state Democrats of its delegates. Wonderful. Just great. Is there anything the Democrats won't do to shoot themselves in the foot?

Who's responsible for the Michigan and Florida vs. DNC fiasco?

[ClassWarrior]

1. Michigan and Florida.

Please explain to me how this is "shooting themselves in the foot." :shrug:

NGU.

[Demeter]

5. The Levins, the Dingalls, the State Legislature (both sides, both houses)

and Governor Granholm, who signed the stupid bill

[ClassWarrior]

7. No answer?

I've seen a number of people make that claim, but none of them has an answer to my question. I'd sincerely like to know why this amounts to "shooting ourselves in the foot."

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

8. Kicking for an answer...

I really want to know.

NGU.

[Trajan]

2. Good question ....

I think the delegations in each of those states found ambition enough to push through the date changes at the state level, which is where they must be changed.

Egocentric ambition .....

I have no problem with tradition, nor with any change that might be agreed upon before hand .... But this has all been rather piecemeal and unfocused ..... and undesired by most ....

[blm]

3. All those states voted for those rules BEFORE Dean became chair.

Dean has to enforce the rules as they exist. Florida and Michigan Dems knew this but are trying to help the wing of the party that wants Dean pushed out so they started this fight knowing damn well that Dean CANNOT go around the rules of the DNC as they existed when he took office.

Gee - who has been trying to get Dean pushed out of the DNC chairmanship since Nov2006?

PS: Did those states treat Terry McAuliffe the same way over these EXACT SAME RULES?

[QC]

4. The folks who think that lily-white rural microstates have a divine mandate

to choose our party nominee.

[Blue-Jay]

6. *clicks profile*....

Yep, Florida.

[sandnsea]

10. Edwards is winning in Iowa

He isn't the one who benefits from big money, party hack, campaigns.

[Blue-Jay]

11. He is? According to whom?

Before anyone gets upset....

I haven't seen any news stories/polls that indicate Edwards as the front-runner in Iowa, so I'm just looking for someone to share information that supports your statement. No opinions. No snark. Just information.

Thanks in advance.

[sandnsea]

15. You're right, in comparison to other states

Edwards has the best opportunity to win in Iowa, it's a statistical tie. However, when all this state bickering started, Edwards was generally leading in Iowa and certain campaigns were trying all sorts of things to shift the focus to states where money and momentum would be more important than depth.

[Blue-Jay]

16. I wasn't right about anything. I was asking a question.

I was just asking if you had any information to support your statement that Edwards was winning in Iowa. I'm not doubting you, but I was curious if you had some data that I've not yet seen.

Were you saying that Edwards is leading in the primary polls, or that he has the best chance in winning Iowa in the general election?

[sandnsea]

17. I was thinking about when this all started

And typed that in error. So when I said "you're right", I was re-thinking to the actual numbers today. They're a statistical tie, last time I checked.

I was trying to point out that this has political implications outside of the supposed "lily white" people choosing the candidates. It has money and party machine implications, which is a much bigger influence than the color of the constituency.

[Blue-Jay]

18. OK.

[sandnsea]

9. Somebody who can't win under close scrutiny

Who needs big money and big party machinery to win. That's who.

[madfloridian]

12. Now that you ask...

here is my summary. If you can answer the question in the subject line, and then apply it to why Dean is being sued and condemned...you have your answer.

It is the state leaders, party, congressional, and legislature, who needed to feel important.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1672

[Cha]

13. Thanks, mad..

adding this to my favorites to read when I'm more awake.

It's all underlying dirty politics with the dlc and maybe someday..more people will wake up and smell the blood.

[jpgray]

14. You've done a really great job of keeping us informed on this

I've found your commentary very interesting over the past couple months. :thumbsup:

[madfloridian]

20. Thank you. It has been a turning point for hubby and me.

It has been a defining point for my husband and myself. We had become quite involved in politics locally with the DEC and DFA. We worked for candidates, did the footwork, have had them meet with us at home to meet others.

We in 2003 were more excited than we had ever been about being active.

That is all gone now, and this is the issue that did it. The way they did it...organizingthe Florida bloggers, working the media, and then the first blast....

They then did a media blast declaring Dean as disenfranching them. The Florida bloggers, joined by Markos and Jerome....dug the knife in deeper. They threatened Dean with investigation for election fraud.

I am not sure we will ever be active with them again. That makes them happy.

[yewberry]

19. The state parties who broke the agreements they made.

They tried to bully the DNC and the candidates, knowing full well that provisions for sanctions were in place, but ended up screwing the voters in their own states.