How come when Democrats do something wrong we jump all over them...

[Flabbergasted]

but very little is said when they do something right....

It should be obvious to most of us, that the Democrats, since taking congress, have not had the power to actually end the war in Iraq. As much as we hate it, Bush has the say in this matter. I've read often enough here that we elected the democrats to end the war, that this was their campaign promise. However I didn't get that impression at all in 2006. I believe they were elected to return balance to Washington where the Republican contolled congress provided zero oversight.

The war appropriations debate, which has been played masterfully by the democrats in my mind, has not been praised by DU much at all that I've seen. (Perhaps I just haven't been reading the right threads?)

[Breeze54]

1. I cheer them when they do good and I boo them when they do bad.

But I make sure to give high praise to the few that don't vote along with * and the rethugs!

[TwilightZone]

2. There are a lot of people with hidden and not-so-hidden agendas on DU.

Posting positive things about our candidates or Democrats in general is not part of the agenda.

[Blashyrkh]

13. God, this shit pisses me off.

People are entitled to an opinion without not-so-subtle attacks on their loyalty or personal integrity.

[TwilightZone]

15. I'm not sure what shit you're talking about.

If you honestly believe that there aren't trolls on DU, you should probably take a look around. Some of them are quite obvious about it.

[Blashyrkh]

17. I'm sure we are now talking two different kinds of trolls.

I'm getting at the knee-jerk reaction that follows an unpopular opinion. I don't like how DU automatically resorts to "trolls" when it comes to explaining something. Heaven forbid we consider a Democrat with a different opinion and engage with them on a better level to understand their point of view, and maybe even change it for the better.

The other kind of troll, the legit, paid-for shill whose job it is to push a point of view? They are far more subtle than regular attention trolls. They'll make coherent posts, add constructively to conversations, all the while pushing their own agenda.

Take a look at the name of all the people who started "Vote Hillary or else" threads. Particularly ones that mention the SC and encourage you to vote Dem for that reason, even if you have a strong moral reason not to. That's where I look for trolls.

[TwilightZone]

18. So, which is worse?

People whose agenda is supporting Democrats and "encouraging" people to vote for them or people whose agenda is trying to divide or defeat them?

I have a much bigger problem with the posters who post nothing but negative threads about Democrats than I do with people "encouraging" others to vote for Democrats because the Supreme Court is at stake.

[tom_paine]

27. So, if the Democratic Leadership is not doing it's Constitutionally mandated job, we should just

shut up about it?

I happen to fall into both your categories. I post negatively about our Democratic Leadershipo when it warrants it. For the last seven years that has been almost constantly. Sorry about that whole reality thing.

But I always encourage people to vote for the Democratic candidates in 2008 because what little hope we have that the Old American Republic can be restored is a Democratic Emperor and a Democratic Imperial Congress.

Think of it this way. The Democratic Leadership is the battered wife. The Bushies are the abusive husbands.

We are the family friends who exhort the battered wife to stand up for herself, leave the man or do what she has to to protect her life and those of her children from her Nazi-like husband.

Sometimes we are gentle in our given advice. At other times, the frustration at seeing the wife with two black eyes tell us "she deserved it" and that "her husband is really a good man, we just don't know him", causes us to deliver our advice more angrily. Anger at the Nazi husband for being allowed to walk free when the evidence is overwhelming (but the good ol' boy cops won't arrest him even if the evidence was laid out neatly before him), but angry also at the battered wife for taking it because she is afraid of the unkknown if she takes "drastic steps" such as leaving the brute.

You can be mad all you like. Go ahead, chase the well-meaning friend away and whisper into the wifey's ear that she deserved it, that she'll die of hunger and ill-health if she tries to leave or stand up to the brute in any meaningful way.

But we're not going away.

[mmonk]

24. Must be "terrorist cells".

[yourout]

3. Appearance is the problem......They appear to run from a fight faster than a french foot soldier.

It's not so much whether they win or not I want to see them show courage and make a stand.

[Flabbergasted]

4. The current appropriations debate appears quite different considering

this has been in the works since August or before.

[zonmoy]

6. I agree completely.

I will start respecting the democratic party when they start showing some courage.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

5. I cheer them when they do good and get really upset when they agree with or help Repugnicans.

For example, I wish all Democrats would speak of impeachment and of reversing just about everything Bush has done.

[gene430]

7. What is there to applaud

Let's face it, the Republicans could not have been more helpful in trying to screwup everything and give control back to the Dems. Dems get control back and they are not better. This opportunity will be wasted.

[Joe Fields]

8. Bingo! "Nuff said."

[Breeze54]

9. Unless we can completely take over the Senate... we need a majority of 60 Senators

to be able to have our way! We only have 51. That's one reason why a lot of stuff isn't getting through.

Welcome to DU, gene430!

[zonmoy]

10. it would also being consistent with the good cop bad cop approach to

manipulating people. with the repukes being the bad cops and the Dem's being the good cops. but both with the same masters promoting the same goals (not the people though).

[Breeze54]

11. Not to mention the 40 Blue Dogs voting with * !!!

DINO's all of them! :grr:

[mmonk]

25. The real problem people ignore.

Better to blame the critics that understand war and war funding resides with the House of Representatives.

[stillcool]

12. I loathe picking ..

candidates apart for sport, or human beings in general. I love seeking understanding about the actions our government has taken that has led us to where we are, and how ordinary human beings can possibly change the fate of others. This political game is a crap shoot...but the house always wins.

[warren pease]

14. HR 1955...

...passed the House by a 404 - 6 vote, with 22 not voting. Of the 404, 219 are democrats and 185 are republicans. Alleged democrat Jane Harman sponsored the bill. Of the 14 co-sponsors, 10 are democrats.

HR 1955, now up for a vote in the senate as SB 1959, is nothing less than a declaration of war against the people of the US -- at least those of us who aren't in the 25 or so percent who live lives of BushCo bliss. This bill is one of the more revolting pieces of shit to emerge during the past seven years. It's so bad that both the right and the left are furious about it.


From the left, here's a fine summary of what this bill is all about.

A line from the article: "What I'm saying is anything could be defined as force. And since a 'planned use of force' is considered a criminal act, if I just sat around and planned out a grassroots campaign, I'd be considered a terrorist."


And from the opposite direction, our pals at FR think they're seriesly screwn, too.

A sample comment: "A DAMNED lie designed to destroy conservative talk radio. You see the parallel." Why yes, ma'am, I due, I reelly, reelly due.


To answer the question another way, let me know when Harry and Nancy decide to nail Bushie's codpiece to the wall and I'll be happy to give them a standing ovation. Let me know when the Constitution becomes more important to them than their woeful political agenda -- which is so solid that Congress enjoys a lower approval rating than even the widely despised marionette in chief himself.

Until then, they're just useless enablers who have no business pretending to lead the democratic party. At this rate, the only place they're leading it is over a cliff.


wp

[KoKo]

16. Subpoenas that haven't been honored. Bush still getting his appointments like Muckasey

Karl Rove getting cushy job at Newsweek, Scooter goes Free, Wolfowitz back at State Department handling "WMD" for US...and On and On and On and On and On and On.

You think we Dems have something to be proud of? AGHHHH *cough*...GASP...*COUGH, GAG, *COUGH...HACK...*

Sorry for hyperbole...but I'm at wits end on waiting for Dems to defy Bush. Watching Harry Reid's Presser Counter to Bush's "Rose Garden Tirade against Dems" really did me in for today!

Oy........

Here's the scoop on the Reid thingy...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2398052

[Toasterlad]

19. Oh, Please, Spare Me.

"They don't have the power": are you fucking kidding me? All they have to do is refuse to sign off on Bush's war budget. The Republicans can't stop them. Bang! No more war! Or refuse to give Bush a cent until he agrees to some hard conditions. Instead, they puss out at EVERY opportunity to do the things that they were given a mandate to do in '06.

The reason we critize Democrats when they do something wrong is because we are NOT freepers. We DON'T drink the kool-aid. We remain rational people capable of questioning our government and crying foul when we see them not doing their jobs. Which, by the way, is what we're SUPPOSED to do as members of a democratic society.

Most of us understand that.

[Flabbergasted]

20. Which would make sense if dems all agreed on withdrawing from Iraq

They would have the power if they were united in the belief that ending the war in Iraq was the best move politically or practically. They are not of course.

Dems are a diverse group and many of them do not agree with immediately ending the war.

If for example Pelosi and say a hundred other reps decided to do as yo suggest a massive fight would ensue. The media would hang them out to dry.

Please don't act like this is some simple little political process that should be easy.

[tom_paine]

28. "The media would hang them out to dry." Well, who's fault is that?

It was the job of the Democratic Leadership to NOTICE the Bushies were not operating randomly in their destruction and intimidation ofthe Old American Formerly Free Press. It was their job to counter it while it was still weak enough to be countered with a vigorous defense of trutha nd against Orwellian redefiniton of language and reality.

Not to say, "Well, you Bushies have a point. Most of us ARE welfare-cheating, American-hating slobs, but it is still (insert rational defense of issue here)."

But that is what we dod...FOR TWENTY YEARS.

Not only were our Leadership clueless or in denial about Bush Machiavellian Aims, particularly in th realm of the media, but their opposition to this was so tepid, so nonexistant, that now we are contending with what is essentially upside-down world.

It is upside-down because we refused to see what the Bushies were up to, refused to "think and speak outside Bushies frames", allowing them to repeat their Orwellian Lies and their dark, subconciously-oriented propaganda, that all of those Bushie Lies are now cemented into Conventional Wisdom.

"The fault, dear Cassius, lies not in our stars but in ourselves."

You point to the cage the Bushies have placed us in and rail, but it is WE and most particularly the Democratic Leadership who stood by as the cage was going up around them and DID NOTHING to prevent it's formation.

Now you use the cage that the Democratic Leadership blithely allowed to be built as an excuse why they cannot act like defenders of the Old American Republic NOW.

You know who else is responsible?

Every single one of us shares some fault and blame for what has happened in our country.

[TahitiNut]

21. Fact: 41 Senators can stop the funding for the illegal occupation of Iraq. Just 41. That's all.

Facts are inconvenient. :shrug:

[mmonk]

30. Ssssshhhhhhh!

"They don't have the numbers". The democrats in the House don't even have to send a war funding bill in the first place.

[fascisthunter]

32. Plus... We Can't Do Much about The Other Side Accept Fight Them

but we can challenge our Reps to do their jobs.

[JFN1]

22. I don't trust them

So someone stabs you in the back 15 times, and then suddenly, on number 16...they don't...

So what - they are worthy of praise? Or should we wonder how they will make use of this one "good deed" to prop themselves up in the future?

Do you praise the painter for only painting half the house? Do you praise the cook for fixing only a partial meal?

Puh-lease.

Give me consistency, give me back my Constitution - and then we'll see about getting them some praise.

[Perry Logan]

23. It's a self-hating mindset--caused by constant exposure to a right-biased media.

Democrats need to virtually stop watching the American news. The U.S. media news exists to weaken the left--and DU proves they're doing a bang-up job.

[tom_paine]

29. I agree that Imperial Amerikan "News" is virtually a 24/7 commercial

against the Democratic Party.

But who allowed it to become that way? Who stood by as the cage we now live in was built around us?

"The fault, dear Cassius, lies not in our stars, but in ourselves."

I might add that, over the past 30 years, the American Left has needed little help in weakening ourselves, merely by sitting back and allowing Totalitarian Media Infrastructure to be put into place before our eyes.

See my post #28 for more on why I think this is so.

[warren pease]

31. I haven't watched American news in literally years...

... and if anything, I'm MORE pissed off at the democratic leadership because I don't have to filter out the corporate bullshit to get a little reality. Assuming things on corporate TV haven't changed all that much, what you get from the more "moderate" pundits -- in other words, not Fux Nudes and not the CNN Barbie and Ken dolls -- is condescension and scolding, not pure venom.

All they're really doing is engaging in citizen obedience training, and that means they have to acknowledge that the US has a vibrant two-party system (although it really doesn't), and that, as a result, democrats have a proper place in the US political landscape. That place is usually seen as janitorial in nature, but at least mainstream pundits admit democrats are occasionally somewhat useful.

I've achieved my current level of condescension, ridicule and outrage over these frauds just by keeping up with real news via the Internets. If I want to know what's happening in my own country, the last place I'm going to find it is in material published in or broadcast from the US. I need to look at the international press and some of the more informative US news sites and blogs.

So the points are a) My opinions aren't shaped at all by US media; b) I learn everything I can from sources on the internet, from non-mainstream magazines, and from books on history, politics, sociology, human behavior and so forth; c) As a result of using these types of sources, my opinion of this democratic congress, and particularly its leadership in both houses, literally couldn't go any lower.

So it's not mass media that's causing democrats to despise their "leadership." It's the leaders themselves. After all, they prattled endlessly prior to last year's elections about ending the Iraq disaster if we'd just give them a congressional majority. OK. Done. And how have they used that majority?

Instead of simply killing all war appropriations bills from BushCo by tabling the measures and not allowing them to come to a vote, they're worried that the remaining 172 undecided voters in the country will be told by Fux Nudes that democrats are not supporting the troops and they'll lose all 172 votes.

So they parse and evade and dodge and dance around the unchallenged fact that, so far, Bushie has gotten every single nickel he's begged to continue his blood bath in the Middle East. In fact, earlier this year, they even slipped him an additional $10 million BEYOND the appropriations request. Somebody must have owed another somebody at Lockheed Martin a very big favor.

And then there's impeachment. I've already written reams on that one, and you can check my journal for my opinion on how well that's going. Main point is, the leadership has decided that their oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, is just a quaint bit of old school jibberish and that compliance is optional and subject to their sense of realpolitik.

Note that their sense of realpolitik is so thoroughly lousy that they're afraid to launch impeachment hearings against a universally despised snarling sociopath with a 9 percent approval rating. They feel such proceedings might jeopardize their own lofty mid-teens approval rating, I suppose, which demonstrates such epic stupidity and contempt for their constituents that they may well find themselves back in the minority next November if this continues.

And of course they have no time for impeachment because they're ever so busy dealing with more urgent matters. Here's a look at the urgent matters the house is dealing with this week congressmerge.com.

No, it's not corporate media that makes people crazy about the 110th Congress. It's their job performance, their priorities, their gross ineffectiveness, their constant excuses, their inability to act like an opposition party, their inability to admit that they were elected as the anti-war/anti-BushCo party, and their continued refusal to do a damn thing about either issue.

I'll applaud them just as soon as they deserve it. I have a feeling that might be a while in coming.


wp

[Horse with no Name]

26. Because we aren't blind zealots

We don't support bad acts of faith without question or pause--regardless of party affiliation.
IMHO, it's what separates US from THEM.

[Individualist]

34. Hear, hear!

Blind loyalty is a republican trait.

[porphyrian]

33. Doing something right is their fucking job, and they aren't doing it well. -n/t