Ain't it great to be a 19 year old in America where you can own a semi-auto rifle

[Dawggie]

to use after you get canned from Mickey D's?

Or maybe after you get canned?

[EV_Ares]

1. or ain't it great to be a 19 year old in America with the shape our health

care system is in and where 19 y/o along with others are unable to get the proper care they need which would probably prevent or help to prevent these horrendous acts. You can go out and take away every gun in this country and someone, unfortunately, the ones that should not have one are going to get one unless you do what this adminisgtration appears to want which is a police state.

The problem goes way deeper than "a gun". A lot of people are out there who need help and fortunately our congress has started hearings on that very issue today and listening to the National Nurses Association.

[zanne]

2. Id be depressed if I was 19 again.....

What happened to all the "Do what you love" career counseling? What happened to "Find a lifestyle you like and live it" "Do something that will help people". Ah those were the days. Now, the best you get is "Take the fast track to $", "You're the most important person in the world", and, my favorite, "You can do anything you set your mind to". Bullshit. It's time for young people to start living more alternative lifestyles or they'll suffocate by the time they're 40. And, here's another tip, kids; You don't have to do it with guns!

[havocmom]

5. Damn straight, you and EV_Ares both!

It's the CULTURE, not the hardware.

[spirit of wine]

3. Is This Who Tom Tancredo Meant That We Should Fear?

Oh wait, only in repuglican America If this tragedy occured with a muslim gunman, than all the GOP candidates would be saying "look, look, see, I told this would happen!" Instead we have deafening silence. I suppose the gunman must be a white christian then?

America the Hypocrisy Reeks from Valhalla!

[BrklynLiberal]

4. How did this 19 year old get a SEMI-AUTOMATIC weapon and walk into a mall with it???

His inability to get whatever care he may have needed only adds to the tragedy...or perhaps, may be the underlying key to it.

[havocmom]

6. He must have been an adult. His parents threw him out.

Wonder why that happened. Wonder if he was sick and lived in a society that doesn't address that. Or if he suffered from arrested development because of parents who didn't parent much and teach him what he needed to learn to develop well and value life.

Maybe he was aware of just how little future there is for young people.

nah, it was the gun's fault :eyes:

[BrklynLiberal]

11. .

[seabeyond]

39. or the kid felt he deserved, was owed, was a victim

ya, you are right..... guns fault

[havocmom]

45. Yep, that falls under the Poor Parenting / Sick Society heading

and, yep still the gun's fault.

[BadgerLaw2010]

16. Stole it.

[havocmom]

22. Ah, so even if guns were outlawed...

outlaws could still get guns?

One of the reasons I prefer to keep mine too. ;)

[hogwyld]

28. Well, if congress got some "balls"

and they would confiscate every single one of them, then the pool of stolen weapons would shrivel up accordingly. We could take all of that money currently spent on gunshot wounds, and divert it to mental health.

[NeedleCast]

35. Right, and how many law enforcement officers

are you willing to let die rounding up the guns?

[hogwyld]

43. That argument should win some much needed sympathy

points. Open defiance of a legislativly passed law? Bearing arms against law enforcement? Sedition? I'm sure us Anti's will be sure to repeal our laws in the face of those threats.

[Tejas]

49. You sure like writing checks

on some fantasy bank account.

With your idea, the amount of health care $ needed for the increased # of unarmed victims would go through the roof.

Also, and this just scratches the surface of the problems it would create...an increased number of criminals (emboldened by the increased number of unarmed citizens) would be encountered by LEO's.

The result? More injuries, hopefully 100% to the criminals. Where will the $ come from for the health care that is then needed as a result of these increased injuries?

Think the criminals will pay for it?

Of course not, because they don't have money, that's why they're out there with guns to begin with!



By the way, you forgot to mention how you're going to take the guns already in criminal hands.

[I work for workers]

19. Where in the mall did he shoot people?

It's quite possible (and makes sense to me) that he opened fire just after entering. I can't see that many people turning a blind eye to someone wandering around with a rifle, though I suppose it could have been in a box or something.

[benEzra]

48. Most modern guns are semiautomatic...

semiautomatic means it works like an ordinary pistol. Pull the trigger once, it shoots once, and will not fire again until you release the trigger and pull it a second time.

I bought this semiautomatic rifle at age 18...



The loser who murdered those people in Nebraska didn't buy his rifle, though; he stole it from a relative.

[truebrit71]

7. It wasn't his. He stole it.

Next.

[dmallind]

8. Yes - and those "no guns allowed" laws REALLY helped

Of course a nutcase who wants to get famous by committing suicide and taking a bunch of strangers with him would NORMALLY be stopped by such a powerful and meaningful law as "no guns allowed here guys". This must be one of those rare exceptions where nutcases ignored firearms zoning.

[zanne]

12. Your argument doesn't help you. .

In fact, if people are using illegal guns in illegal ways, the only logical thing to do is get ALL guns out of the hands of civilians. That's really what you're saying when you use that ridiculous argument.

[havocmom]

23. Murder is against the law and people do it anyway

Gun laws get the same disregard from people who want to break the laws

More laws won't help nearly as much as better mental health care and a society where people have futures instead of desperation and hopelessness

It's the culture, not the guns

[dmallind]

24. Ridiculous argument?

You mean compared to taking away some 300 million pieces of easily concealable equipment from people who don't want you to? When guns can be made from scratch in any good machine shop and where we have hundreds if not thousands of people who are skilled in doing just this?

Trust me I'm a gun owner and I enjoy shooting but if I could wave a magic wand and completely eliminate ALL of them and the means to make them I'd do it - but the trouble is that's a fantasy that needs a magic wand. UK and Japan can't do it and they started with a fraction of a fraction of the guns we have, with nowhere near the spread of gunsmithing knowledge or reloading experience. Guns are here to stay, and wishing won't change that.

And calling an argument ridiculous does not make it so. Tell me HOW "no guns allowed" signs do any damn thing at all to stop nutcases who want to shoot up public places. Answer the simple question - how can the threat of a misdemeanor fine and loss of a permit stop someone bringing a gun into a mall or whatever when the prospect of life imprisonment and likely death by cop doesn't stop them shooting the place up? It's a feel good patch with no practical application to public safety at all. Since by definition only an insane loon with no moral restraint is going to go on a shooting spree, and since by definition and painful precedent no guns allowed signs don't stop such people, what exactly is the point?

[zanne]

30. Ridiculous? You mean like deporting millions of illegal aliens.....

I've noticed that alot of gun people aren't particularly fond of illegal immigrants, either. But that's the "sensible" argument some people have for that problem. So no, my opinion isn't ridiculous.

[Tejas]

33. are you in the right thread?

"alot of gun people aren't particularly fond of illegal immigrants, either."

huh?

You noticed what?


As to what dmallind asked, care to answer?

While you're at it, try noticing that bank robbers don't care about signs either.

[dmallind]

36. projection and topic shift

FWIW I do not support, nor see as rational and feasible, deportation of all illegals - or even all that many of them frankly (I could be persuaded to seek out those who are dangerous criminals). And "gun people" includes at least 30% of Democrats so I wouldn't make any great generalizations there. The key idea of camo-clad "cold dead hands" Chuck Norris wannabe gun people? Quite likely true - but I don't see any of those hanging around here.

But that doesn't say anything about the rationality of gun confiscation nor the effectivity of no guns allowed signs does it? Why not speak to those?

[zanne]

46. The gun problem resembles the drug problem, illegal immigrants,

Child pornography, etc. These are all problems that seem overwhelming and impossible to control, but we try, don't we? The thing is, we seem to give the gun peddlers free reign and turn our heads to the problem. If you really, believe in making gun possession and use a safer activity you wouldn't kick and scream about more gun regulations or the enforcement of existing gun laws. I think that's called hypoocrisy.

[dmallind]

47. You're missing one important distinction. Well two really.

Guns are not illegal. Therefore the super super vast majority of guns are not a legal problem at all, and are completely incomparable to your analogies.

Even that said I AM in favor of common sense and meaningful gun restrictions. I have no problem with licensing, insurance, testing, background checks at gun shows, and all those things that would actually make a difference. My issue with no guns allowed signs is not that they are restrictions but that they are stupid and ineffective restrictions that make absolutely no damn difference at all to the safety of the public, and any putative impact is negative rather than positive.

No guns allowed signs used to reduce risk of shootings are like trying to stop child molestors by posting "no erections allowed" signs. Anyone who's going to commit a much more heinous crime, and is twisted enough to kill a bunch of strangers, is not going to be put off by a no guns sign any more than a person sick enough to rape little kids is going to be put off by a sign banning sexual arousal. You have to posit a loony who is going to obey impotent regulations and yet still commit major felonies.

[NickB79]

41. Many Democrats are gun owners

You're painting with a VERY broad brush there.

[PVnRT]

44. Yes, that strategy has worked great for illegal drugs.

Next.

[ThomWV]

9. Or issued one if you joing the Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force, or National Guard.

[TheCowsCameHome]

10. Homeland Security, my ass.

If a loser can walk into a crowded mall with a weapon like this, what are we paying these people for? To protect against parking violators?

[Javaman]

15. HLS is nothing more than a paycheck for morons* cronies. nt

[HiddenInVA]

21. You get what you pay for.... or don't....

Several years back, I worked part-time for a major mall in the Northern VA area doing security work.
I was rather well paid, and made more than 99% of my co-workers due to my creds at my full-time job,
but we were seriously hampered by the mall's ownership as far as what we could or couldn't do, due to
their fear of liability issues.

One of the things I found laughable was that the owner was adamant about posting signs at the mall
entrance (but small enough that you had to look for them to actually see them) saying "No firearms,
concealed or otherwise, except for Law Enforcement Officers on official duty." Perfectly within her
rights as the mall is considered private property for such purposes, but if somebody did come in
carrying a holstered pistol, we were supposed to tell the person that they were breaking the mall's
rules, and had to leave. (Oh, did I mention that, of course, we were unarmed? My paying job, I'd
carried various weapons practically since I'd graduated HS, and had to qualify highscore every six
months to stay certified, but all she would let us carry was a flashlight and OC.) So I'm no Rambo,
so I'll admit that if it appeared to be legit, I let them keep walking. If it was somebody who did
appear to shady (A kid with a pistol stuck in his back pocket, one time), I called the local
sheriff's dept, and sicc'd them on him.

So to answer the last part of your question, yes, I was a well-paid, glorified parking lot attendant
for the most part. Mall employees had to park in a certain area, and we knew their licence plate #s.
We made sure that they parked in the 'correct' spot, and if not, ticketed their cars, which meant
that if a certain store accumulated above a certain # of tickets, the mall would fine them. (And did
so on occasion.) Mall shoppers who parked in fire lanes or such spots would return to find no
vehicle, and upon flagging our parking lot guy down, often resulted in receiving the business card
of the local tow-truck driver who had impounded their car.

So unless the malls want to lay out serious $$ (and that would cut into the profit too much), the
only armed security that you'll see at malls will be moonlighting local PD or deputies, whose chief
has authorized their doing so, with some sort of pay set up by the mall. Homeland Security isn't
going to pay for armed security for all the malls in the country - that's a pipe dream.

Heck, we can't even get decent security at our nations airports! What makes you think that they'll
do anything about malls?!?

[TheCowsCameHome]

40. It wasn't meant as a knock on mall security people, rather

the general idea that just about anyone can roam around with this sort of weapon and wreak havoc right here in America - while the arrogant fools in DC tell us how safe they are keeping everyone.

Mall security people are trying to make a living, just like anyone else.

I worry more about this type of thing happening than the "they'll follow us home" BS I keep hearing from our alleged "leaders".

[Javaman]

13. You know...

when my dad died, my girlfriend cheated on me, and I lost my job 7 years ago, all within the space of 2 weeks, my first thought, naturally, was to get a weapon and mow down people.

:sarcasm:

obviously, this kid was never taught any coping skills. There are much deeper issues here.

[mdmc]

20. thank God you were stable and without severe mental health issues

I hope things have gotten better in your life. Hopefully you can utilize your knowledge of hard times to help those that might not be as capable to deal with life stressors.

[Javaman]

25. Things got much better after many many sessions with a therapist. :)

This kid, thrown out of his house, was given up on by his parents, who seem to have little in the way of parenting skills. Parenting skills also include being able to identify if your kid is depressed as well.

[mdmc]

34. peace and low stress my friend

:kick::patriot:

[Javaman]

38. Absolutely. :)

stress solves nothing and peace has only answers. :)

[mdmc]

14. Better then living without the right to own the gun

The only solution is an empathetic solution.
Universal health care - mental health parity!

[King Coal]

17. Ah. Tradition. What a gas.

[Catherine Vincent]

18. Oh well, whatever.

I have a right to own a gun and protect myself. You can't take it from me. If some kid blows away 8 innocent people, that's not my problem. Signed, Joe Horn.

[BrklynLiberal]

26. Amazing how many people feel exactly like that....

[Tejas]

27. sour grapes?

Sure wish someone at that mall could've intervened and blown away that murderer in mid-stride.

Signed, Joe Horn

[Catherine Vincent]

29. I think you're the one with sour grapes.

If a Joe Horn would have blown away the kid that murdered those people, I doubt very seriously he would have regretted doing it after the fact. Joe Horn's lawyer said he regretted killing those two burglars. Big difference.

[Tejas]

31. amazing

"I doubt very seriously he would have regretted doing it after the fact."

Keep spitting out what you *think* you know about human nature after a shooting. You probably think LEO's don't need counseling after a shoot either.

simply amazing.

[Catherine Vincent]

32. And I suppose you do?

[Tejas]

37. Tell you what

Do what you want, ignore the reality that a shoot can and often does affect LEO's. Ignore the reality that post-shoot therapy exists for a reason.


By the way, can't find it, where's the thread with info that Joe Horn shot two pieces of trash that were currently under investigation by the ATF, ICE, and the Texas DPS?

[NickB79]

42. I have a feeling I know

Though I've never had to shoot someone, I have been VERY close to it. The man I had to point a loaded gun at was my own father. It took years of counseling to get over that one incident.

[Raine]

50. I thought it was his parents

that he stole from them. :shrug:

[BreweryYardRat]

51. Eh, the student-heavy apartments at my school back up onto a pretty bad area. The kids need guns.

You WILL hear gunfire at least once a week, minimum, and it ain't the students firing first. Car theft and car break-ins on campus are a major problem, too, and we had a serial rapist going around off-campus at the start of the semester.

A guy right off-campus got shot in the neck by robbers late September, early October -- he shot back with his semi-auto and got one in the leg, but still.

My freshman year, second semester, a guy visiting his girlfriend ON CAMPUS tried to stop three gangbangers from breaking into a car's trunk (in my parking lot at the time, actually). One of those fucks emptied a .22 into his chest and killed him.

And the University doesn't "have the budget" for more cops, but boy howdy, we sure have enough to spend a million bucks renovating a building THE STUDENTS BARELY USE or 10-20 grand throwing a spring concert for the fuckin' non-academic frats. I swear, our entire administration could use a good house-cleaning.