Rep. Nancy Pelosi, It is a Crime to Lie to Congress, and the Torture Cover Up Conundrum.

[L. Coyote]

"How to get out of this mess, now that we have been caught lying to Congress, a crime," someone in the Political Wingnut Office no doubt thought. Well, you already know the rest of the story. Or, do you? Maybe we all need to step back and do a little analysis. Some on ourselves for being fools, but mostly to see past the smoke and mirrors of daily deception and official lies, the daily bread that blinds like ergot on rye.

On further reflection, it seems a Political Wingnut went on the offensive before the cover up of torture becomes the crime de jour. Or is it crime of the hour now. It sure seemed like it last week. Brace yourself for this week, I'm guessing, because the real implications will soon surface. The Intelligence Community is bound by law to report to key members of Congress. So, guess who has the goods on the liars who did not report honestly to Congress? The ones being targeted by the recent propaganda assault, esp. the Speaker of the House, Rep. Nancy Pelosi.

NUMBER ONE: It is a crime to lie to Congress. Therein lies the inception of the real story.

NUMBER TWO: The Intelligence Community (read Bush Administration) is required by law to inform Congress of its war crimes, like torture!

There is your conundrum in raw formulation. Screwed if you tell on yourself, screwed if you did not. So now, we are seeing the after effects.

This is plainly a reactionary salvo, accomplishing little except to pre-arm the faithful for denial, with blame the Dems in Congress--the usual such nonsense, any nonsense, just so the faithful do not have to start thinking. Because, if they start thinking, if that happens, it is all over.

==========
On edit, a typo. And I use the current FireFox browser version, with spell check in text boxes, so no excuse!

[KittyWampus]

1. "Political Wingnut Office" LOL! Actually, you summed up their quandry. Seems they went w/option #2

Claim they informed Congress.

And GEE, whadaya know, Nancy Pelosi not only signed off on it- she wanted harsher methods used.

[TechBear_Seattle]

2. And that makes Pelosi explicitly a co-conspirator in crimes against humanity

I will be very, very disappointed if Pelosi keeps here seat after the 2008 election.

[L. Coyote]

4. Absolutely NOT! HELLO, read the post. It is about a propaganda pieces in M$M.

The entire point is that Pelosi is the one witness that has to be attacked. WHY? She has first-hand knowledge if there was a crime, even if she cannot discuss it under current law.

Not to mention, Pelosi sets the table!! :rofl: No other target could be so elevated on their radar!

[pscot]

8. Don't be so quick to buy the WaPo spin

If it's Pelosi's word against the Post editorial board, the Post has the credibility problem. This is about framing. "Everybody" knew about it. "Nothing new to see here. Move along, now." Don't let yourself be played by these right-wing shills.

[grasswire]

13. Do you have no regard for the truth?

Do you place that much of your trust in The Washington Post that you will accuse the Speaker of the House of treason and crimes against humanity on the basis of ONE anonymously sourced article in The Post?

This lack of scrutiny and wisdom and this incredible naivete is how Republicans have gotten away with scandal after scandal and how they have attacked the Constitution with impunity.

Wise up! Question everything! Place your trust in the truth, not in propaganda!

[L. Coyote]

15. Indeed. Ditto. Roger that. You got it. Surely. Let me repeat. Correcto Mundo!

And, I would add, get rid of that whoooooosh haircut. Too much is getting by too easily!

[L. Coyote]

3. "waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture" is a real BIAS giveaway

From the article, right at the top is a HUGE defense of Bush war crimes:

"Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/08/AR2007120801664.html
Hill Briefed on Waterboarding in 2002
In Meetings, Spy Panels' Chiefs Did Not Protest, Officials Say
By Joby Warrick and Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, December 9, 2007; Page A01

Another similar lapse of history follows:

"Congressional leaders from both parties would later seize on waterboarding as a symbol of the worst excesses of the Bush administration's counterterrorism effort."

Let's get this much history correct. Waterboarding is, has been, always was, and forever will be a war crime, no matter if the perp is Bush, Torquemada, or whatever Evil Inquisitor du Jour. It is banned by International Law, by treaty it is prosecutable criminally in the United States, and has been considered illegal torture as a matter of U.S. policy since the Spanish American War.

Let us also get this much history correct. The editorial board and the writers at the WA Post know that.

Nowe, here comes the problem with not fully informing Congress, the evidence that has so conceniently disappeared:

"The CIA last week admitted that videotape of an interrogation of one of the waterboarded detainees was destroyed in 2005 against the advice of Justice Department and White House officials, provoking allegations that its actions were illegal and the destruction was a coverup."

Is anyone else reading between the lines yet. I don't think I really need to go further, do I? Nonetheless, let's be sure to get in the last sentence:

In a rare public statement last month that broached the subject of his classified objections, Feingold complained about administration claims of congressional support, saying that it was "not the case" that lawmakers briefed on the CIA's program "have approved it or consented to it."

That emanates from someone on the inside who actually knows, not from unnamed, unquoted, anonymous sources such as U.S. officials, those ambiguous and nebulous workers somewhere between dog catcher and postal clerk or Vice Resident in charge of leaking lies.

[liberalmuse]

6. Not really. The article does go on to state that waterboarding..

was torture that was used during The Inquisition and has officially been recognized by the U.S. as a torture technique since early last century.

[L. Coyote]

10. That does not alter the front-loaded bias. The internal contradictions are just more fuel

to burn the authors.

There are many internal contradictions, not the least of which is:

"And while various officials have described the briefings as detailed and graphic, it is unclear precisely what members were told about waterboarding and how it is conducted."

At every turn, this article reeks of disinformation. It is as if they just threw out all sorts of views and bad memories from unnamed whosoevers, and use it to infer complicity in the crimes now revealed as known and as covered up. That is the context, crimes come out, they become the fact of the day, and now it is time to cover up other crimes, like hiding the first crimes when required to report the activity to Congress.

[grasswire]

12. Where do you get that idea?

Good Lord.

[liberalmuse]

5. But...but it was a secret and the lawyers signed off on it.

Though that defense has never really worked in an International War Crimes court.

[Disturbed]

7. Pelosi was well aware of the many crimes of Busolini & his

RWing Fascist Regime, which is why she announced that: "Impeachment is off the table."

[spanone]

9. the WaPo hit piece is a diversion....the lie is there, nancy or not.

[L. Coyote]

21. And the lie is always bigger. Hayden made this public because the NY Times

was breaking the story. So, they admit what is already known, or the planted the story to admit what is not true in the first place to cover up what was not actually destroyed, or some even more obtuse confabulation of lies and deceits.

HARD CORE RULE: The real LIE is always BIGGER than the one they are forced to acknowledge!

[mtnester]

11. One - it is the WaPo for gawd's sake....two

can you NOT smell Karl all over this one?

How soon we forget.

[L. Coyote]

14. Rep. Jane Harman, House Intelligence Comm. "this matter must be promptly and fully investigated

Jane Harman:

In early 2003, in my capacity at Ranking Member of the House Intelligence Committee, I received a highly classified briefing on CIA interrogation practices from the agency’s General Counsel. The briefing raised a number of serious concerns and led me to send a letter to the General Counsel. Both the briefing and my letter are classified so I cannot reveal specifics, but I did caution against destruction of any videotapes.

Given the nature of the classification, I was not free to mention this subject publicly until Director Hayden disclosed it yesterday. To my knowledge, the Intelligence Committee was never informed that any videotapes had been destroyed. Surely I was not.

This matter must be promptly and fully investigated and I call for my letter of February 2003, which was never responded to and has been in the CIA’s files ever since, to be declassified.

FROM: http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/12/more_snitch.php

[L. Coyote]

16. NY TIMES: Democrats Call for Inquiry in Destruction of Tapes by C.I.A.

This analysis is far more reality grounded than the WA Post hit piece. For example, "The destruction of the tapes raises questions about whether agency officials withheld information from Congress, the courts and the Sept. 11 commission about aspects of the program." That points to crimes, obstruction, and the usual lying.

===============
Democrats Call for Inquiry in Destruction of Tapes by C.I.A.
By MARK MAZZETTI - Dec 7, 2007
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/07/washington/07cnd-intel.html?em&ex=1197176400&en=45ed2b1aaa42e72f&ei=5087%0A


WASHINGTON, Dec. 7 — Angry Democratic lawmakers called for investigations today into the Central Intelligence Agency’s destruction in 2005 of at least two videotapes documenting the interrogation of two Qaeda operatives in the agency’s custody.

Senator Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts accused the C.I.A. of “a cover-up,” while Senator Richard J. Durbin of Illinois said it was possible that people at the agency had engaged in obstruction of justice. Both called on Attorney General Michael Mukasey to investigate. “We haven’t seen anything like this since the 18½ -minute gap on the tapes of Richard Nixon,” Mr. Kennedy said in a speech on the Senate floor, as reaction to the disclosure about the videotapes seemed to intensify minute by minute.

Mr. Durbin, the Democratic whip, said he had written Mr. Mukasey to ask for an inquiry into “whether C.I.A. officials who destroyed these videotapes and withheld information about their existence from official proceedings violated the law.” The speeches by Mr. Kennedy and Mr. Durbin followed an angry statement by Representative Jane Harman of California, head of the Homeland Security subcommittee on intelligence and terrorism risk assessment. Ms. Harman, who was the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee in early 2003, said she cautioned C.I.A. officials then not to destroy any videotapes pertaining to interrogation practices.

.............................

[L. Coyote]

17. CIA, Justice Department To Probe Interrogation Tape Destruction

CIA, Justice Department To Probe Interrogation Tape Destruction
12/9/2007 - http://www.rttnews.com/FOREX/politicalnews.asp?date=12/09/2007&item=4


The Justice Department and CIA will investigate the destruction of videotapes that showed the use of harsh interrogation techniques on two top terror suspects, according to a joint statement Saturday.

"I welcome this inquiry and the CIA will cooperate fully," CIA Director Mike Hayden said in a statement. "I welcome it as an opportunity to address questions that have arisen over the destruction back in 2005 of videotapes."

.....

"The tapes posed a serious security risk," Hayden wrote in a memo to CIA employees. "Were they ever to leak, they would permit identification of your CIA colleagues who had served in the program, exposing them and their families to retaliation from al-Qaida and its sympathizers."

The videotapes were recorded in 2002 after President Bush had authorized the use of harsh interrogation methods, Hayden said.

....

[L. Coyote]

18. Comment by Jennifer Daskal, Sr. Counterterrorism Counsel, Human Rights Watch

Comment by Jennifer Daskal, Sr. Counterterrorism Counsel, Human Rights Watch
google news Comment by Jennifer Daskal - Dec 7, 2007
http://news.google.com/news?btcid=6b8ea64eb960b3c9


The CIA was well aware that its interrogations crossed a line considered by many to be torture. Now some in the CIA may also be guilty of obstruction of justice as well - a serious felony that carries a possible 20 year sentence. There needs to be a serious criminal investigation, and those who have committed crimes should be prosecuted and convicted.

[L. Coyote]

19. Biden Wants Special Counsel in Tape Case

Biden Wants Special Counsel in Tape Case
By CALVIN WOODWARD – 2 hours ago - http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hyL3au-RZxEcch2P9ymXaJ9mroogD8TE8BVG0


WASHINGTON (AP) — A Senate Democratic leader said Sunday the attorney general should appoint a special counsel to investigate the CIA's destruction of videotaped interrogations of two suspected terrorists.

Sen. Joe Biden, a Democratic presidential candidate and chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, cited Michael Mukasey's refusal during confirmation hearings in October to describe waterboarding as torture.

Mukasey's Justice Department and the CIA's internal watchdog announced Saturday they would conduct a joint inquiry into the matter. That review will determine whether a full investigation is warranted. "He's the same guy who couldn't decide whether or not waterboarding was torture and he's going to be doing this investigation," said Biden, who noted that he voted against making Mukasey the country's top law enforcer.

"I just think it's clearer and crisper and everyone will know what the truth is ... if he appoints a special counsel, steps back from it," said Biden, D-Del.

That view was not shared fellow Democratic Sen. Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia, chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, who said Congress can get to the bottom of the matter. "I don't think there's a need for a special counsel, and I don't think there's a need for a special commission," he said. "It is the job of the intelligence committees to do that."

........

[L. Coyote]

20. CIA director to testify about destroyed tapes

Here we find a conundrum wrapped in the conundrum. Bush is caught in the web of his own deceits. Bush has repeatedly said the USA does not torture. So, of course, he now cannot know about the evidence that makes his the Liar-in-Chief. So, he has to fall back on the proverbial I know nothing. Not exactly a desirable trait for the leader of a nuclear power.

Maybe "I do not recall" is contagious after all :rofl: and, resigning too!!

================
CIA director to testify about destroyed tapes
Sun Dec 9, 2007 6:25pm EST
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN09337668


WASHINGTON, Dec 9 (Reuters) - CIA Director Michael Hayden will testify before Congress on Tuesday amid Democratic fury over the spy agency's destruction of videotapes that showed terrorism suspects being interrogated using harsh techniques.

Democratic Sen. John Rockefeller of West Virginia, the head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said on Sunday Hayden would appear before his committee to talk about interrogation and techniques.

"Were there things on those tapes that they didn't want to have seen, that didn't conform to what the attorney general would allow them to do?" Rockefeller asked on CBS's "Face the Nation." "Were they just trying to bury the general subject?"

.....

The White House has said President George W. Bush, who has repeatedly denied accusations by other countries and rights groups that the United States tortures detainees, did not recall being told about the tapes or their destruction.

[Perry Logan]

22. For some reason, liberals are easily seduced into attacking their own people. Very damaging.

[AuntPatsy]

23. I agree.

[L. Coyote]

24. U.S. Attorney Says Two CIA Interrogation Tapes Still Exist

Another indication the WA Post article was untrue.

============
Dec 9, 2007 at 21:04:11
U.S. Attorney Says Two CIA Interrogation Tapes Still Exist
by Skeeter Sanders - http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_skeeter__071209_the__skeeter_bites_r.htm


A letter by a Virginia-based U.S. attorney to a federal appeals court appears to contradict CIA Director Michael Hayden's public statements on the destruction of hundreds of hours of video footage of "extreme" interrogations .....

Charles Rosenberg, the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, wrote that his office viewed two videotapes of CIA interrogations of al-Qaida suspects as recently as September 19 and October 18 of this year -- contrary to Hayden's statement that the tapes were destroyed in 2005.

......

Rosenberg's five-page letter, addressed to Judge Karen Williams, chief judge of the U.S. Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond, Virginia and to Judge Leonie Brinkema of the U.S. District Court in nearby Alexandria, was referring to the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui, ....

.........

Rosenberg wrote that his office was subsequently notified by the CIA in October that the spy agency "had uncovered the existence of a second videotape, as well as a short audiotape," both of which pertained to interrogations of the al-Qaida suspects whose identities were withheld. "On October 18, we viewed the second videotape and listened to the audiotape, while reviewing transcripts" of the interrogations.

.....