I think mandatory flu shots for pre-schoolers is a crock

[Inchworm]

And so it starts... (NJ)

the contracts

the paperwork

the coin

the crap...

Why the hell don't they mandate apple eating?

That is all.

x(

EDIT: For Article from MSNBC. I guess I heard it wrong. Not mandatory yet but possible soon.

TRENTON, N.J. - New Jersey moved toward becoming the first state to require flu shots for preschoolers on Monday after a health advisory board backed new vaccine mandates over the opposition of worried parents.

The Public Health Council voted to require New Jersey children attending preschool or licensed day care to get annual flu shots, and to get three additional vaccines for youngsters starting Sept. 1, 2008.

[Sanctified]

1. I would just say my kids are allergic to eggs and end it right there.

[Inchworm]

8. You probably need to pay $75 to see a doc for a signature

stating child is allergic. He'll only sign if you see 5 of his friends and give each $75 to stick kid with pins and smear toxins on 'em.

*sigh*

[Ilsa]

2. I wouldn't vax my kids for flu unless they had some sort of

special health condition affecting their respiratory or cardiac systems or immune systems. I think it is mostly the school districts not wanting to lose money on spells of low attendance caused by seasonal illnesses.

[Inchworm]

9. Well vaccines are different to me

flu shots are boosters that teach their body not to respond.

:shrug:

[Feron]

17. I agree.

I'm normally a vaccine proponent, but the flu threat is way overhyped. Only the special needs populations should get the jab.

[ShaneGR]

3. All my kids did was get sick for the first 5 years

Daycare was a complete nightmare, they'd developed some immunity by 5 but the first few months of first grade they'd catch one cold or flu after another. Maybe it's a genetics thing, anyway, I'd consider a flu shot next time around if there was one.

[Inchworm]

10. Did it get better as they went along?

2nd-3rd grade? It is not like that plague wasn't still rampant in the school:P

[Occam Bandage]

4. So why do you think it's a crock?

[Inchworm]

11. It's bad science and a hoax

It reminds me of some "Brotherhood" deal. (showtime series)

Flu shots are crap.

Using them to boost an elderly person's depleating immune system is ok. Using the flu shot to totally fuck up a child's ability to develop an immune system is wrong.

x(

[provis99]

5. mandatory flu shots? What a stupid idea

You can bet some pharmaceutical company is behind this. Childhood immunizations for polio and lockjaw I can understand, but flu shots?

[Inchworm]

12. indeed- it isn't a "flu vaccine" by the way

it's some jaggoffs decision on what strain to infect kids with so they build antibodies for if they ever encounter that strain again...

argh.

[SheilaT]

6. Do a google search

using "flu shots" and effectiveness. Basically, the effectiveness of flu shots is not well proven. I agree that mandating them is nuts. Apparently if you work for the federal government they require you to have them, so I'm glad I don't work for that outfit.

Yes, there are some groups for whom the limited effectiveness of the flu shot undoubtedly makes sense, but not for normal, healthy individuals of any age.

[Inchworm]

13. But across the board mandates on developing chilluns..

is just wrong.

x(

[DemGa]

7. And one of those worries is mercury

<<over the opposition of worried parents>>

[Inchworm]

14. huh? wha?

you in the right thread? :P

:hug:

[rAVES]

15. How much does it cost, and who profits? lol

[Inchworm]

16. Bingo was its name'o

:hi:

[Quixote1818]

18. I had a nephew die of the flu

I think this OP is a crock.

[Inchworm]

19. So a shot may have saved him?

If the flu killed him the shot would have administered the death.

BTW: sorry for your loss.

[Tesha]

24. Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

> If the flu killed him the shot would have administered the death.

Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

Tesha

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

26. That is quite an ignorant statement.

As well as flip and unkind. MKJ

[LostinVA]

27. Flu vaccines aren't live

You can't get flu from the shot.

A flu shot may have saved her nephew. I had the flu every year until I started getting the shot eight years ago, because I worked in a high-exposure job. I haven't had it once since.

[Squatch]

30. ...And Louis Pasteur rolls over in his grave

[Marrah_G]

25. Huh?

[Lyric]

20. I don't agree with the mandatory part because

flu shots are less effective than other vaccines. They are usually only for the most common strains of the season, which leaves a vulnerability to the other strains, and the full effectiveness only lasts a year. Also the vaccine doesn't always completely prevent infection, although it does appear to lessen the intensity of the symptoms and the duration of the illness.

That being said--I still chose to have my 7 year old vaccinated this year. My reasoning wasn't complicated or deep--I'd just rather that he had some form of protection than no protection at all. Influenza (the *real* flu, not just a bad cold) kills. It kills approximately 36,000 people in the United States each year, and up to 500,000 worldwide. We talk about "the flu" in such a flippant, unconcerned manner, but the reality is that influenza can be deadly.

But even if my kid is out of the "danger age" range of under 2/over 65, even if his chances of death are very small, I'm still glad for whatever protection I can give to him because influenza freaking hurts. I had a case of clinically-confirmed influenza once, when I was 17 years old. I'll never forget it--the aching, miserable pain throughout my entire body, the 104-degree fever, the body-wracking chills and spasms. I had a "mild" (ha!) case, so my respiratory symptoms weren't remarkable enough for me to recall, but the pain, dear God the pain...it literally felt I'd fallen off of a building and hit every corner and ledge on the way down. I was on hydrocodone syrup for week, plus lots of Motrin, and I could still feel it. I am no stranger to terrible pain; I have kidney stones, severe sciatica, and fibromyalgia. I know what "real" pain is, and let me tell you...this was Real Pain. I remember the doctor saying, "Oh yes, the flu can cause body aches.". "Body Aches" is the most grotesquely understated term that I have ever heard used to describe what I went through. If there's even the slightest chance than a flu shot can spare my kid from potentially having to suffer like that, then (to me) it's worth it.

So to sum up--no, they shouldn't be mandatory. Yes, I would recommend voluntarily vaccinating your kids (if you have any) and yourselves.

[Inchworm]

21. Gee thanks- it took me 25min to read

I have consumed.

Yes I agree. If a parent for whatever reason or another wants to do that to their kid more power to them. It is like that now.

To make it an order means that all can't afford, gov't tapes and such get in it and costs skyrocket due to the way it is paid for. I dunno, I may just be insane.

[riverdeep]

22. I'm concerned that opposition viewpoints aren't given a fair hearing.

Regardless of the validity of opposition viewpoints, if people aren't even given a chance at a hearing, they become very resentful, and it makes implementing the policy that much harder. Look at the Governor of New York and his license fiasco. He plowed ahead with little regard to public opinion and now he'll probably get his ass handed to him in the next election, if the dems produce a challenger.

We don't have as much data on flu shots as we think we do. With regard to the elderly getting flu shots, the efficacy might not be as great as once thought. More people say children getting them might be better but let the debate go on.

"A recent pair of studies has created consternation because of conflicting conclusions. An analysis in The Lancet Infectious Diseases (October) concluded that vaccinating frail elderly people has not been shown to protect them from influenza death. Even though a majority (65 percent) of senior citizens now get a flu shot each year compared with 15 percent in 1980, mortality rates from flu and pneumonia have not dropped.

This bleak outlook was challenged the following week in the New England Journal of Medicine (Oct. 4). Researchers pulled together 10 years of data from health maintenance organizations. They found that older people who were vaccinated were 27 percent less likely to need hospitalization for influenza or pneumonia. The death rate was halved, according to this analysis.

The problem with both studies is that they depend on observational data instead of placebo-controlled trials. The gold standard for scientific evidence is from experiments where one group gets an active shot and the other receives an inactive saline injection. Such studies are expensive, and many public health officials worry that they would be ethically questionable. Depriving elderly patients of a flu shot is considered immoral."

http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071120/LIFE11/711200351/1006/LIFE

[citizen49]

23. Merk drug company vaccines admits injecting cancer viruses

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=327_1195303011

[LostinVA]

28. Oh dear god

[melm00se]

29. 2 sides to this one

side 1: in 2005, Japan stopped vaccinating children and there was an increase in elderly flu related deaths. the thinking is that young kids offer a potent breeding ground and transmission vector for the flu. Kid gets infected, passes it on to his classmates and then they all go and visit grandma and grandpa and whammo, g & g are exposed, potentially infected and at risk.

side 2: there have been shortages of flu vaccines in the past so is it wise to expend those limited resources on low risk individuals, the majority of which have no special indicators that would call for such vaccinations?

[AlCzervik]

31. is this mandatory in any state yet? I don't remember ever getting my daughter a flu shot

or having her pediatrician recommend she get one.