How did Being a HERO get so fucked up?

[symbolman]

Everyone is Flaming each other over that chick who blew away yet another killer clown (and get used to it, there'll be a 140,000 killers, thanks to Bush, coming home in the future) in a Church, and we're almost used to that, and it's about RELIGION once again, but I think it's REALLY about:

What, or WHO, IS a HERO Now, anyway?

Everyone remembers guys like BABE RUTH to be a HERO, hitting one out of the Park for that kid in the Hospital. To some people Hitler was a goddamned Hero, or STALIN or BUSH.

And no one is saying the Church Killer KILLER ISN'T A HERO in some ways, just the PORTRAYAL of her by the MEDIA was bad news.. how LONG or SHORT she rambled on about how GOD AIMED HER GUN, and some here are mad about the HYPOCRISY involved, either by GOD or the Church Killer KILLER lady, how what kind of GOD would make her AIM so TRUE, yet leave other fine Humans DEAD.

Hard call, really.

BUt what really IS A HERO NOW, Anyway? I was always bothered by the Challenger BLOW, when Kristie the Teacher (who was very brave for sure) was sent up into Space, only to have all the school kids watch her blown apart before ever making it out of the atmosphere.. and they were all Hailed as HEROES for DYING. Big Billboards all over Seattle, where I lived at the time, that sent me to thinking, "Jesus, what about all those OTHER GUYS (and gals) who've Gone into SPACE.. rode the Shuttle, or were "Spam in a Can" ala the Mercury Program, John Glenn and those those people? Aren't THEY HEROES too? Do you have to DIE to be a HERO NOW?"

Seriously, WHAT is a HERO now? In this day and age? Some people would call Limbaugh a HERO for speaking out, taking over the AirWAVES in the 80's, a capitalist, etc. Some would call our site, Takebackthemedia.com HEROES for Boycotting his ass HARD a few years ago, or being sued by Michael Savage's people for a half a million BUCKS.

But once again, what constitutes a true HERO these days? Do you have to DIE, or KILL NOW? As in the TROOPS?

Is there a HERO (HEROINE) GLUT, thanks to the Media?

Rather than me blathering on with my thoughts, I'd like to have others join in here.. What is a HERO (HEROINE) to you? Have we gone too far, is everyone a HERO now that makes a bundle of MONEY, Trashes a Country, is it all bad? Sure, no one can argue that Al GORE isn't a HERO, unless you're Right Wing, but then you have OTHER Problems :)

Personally, I SEE HEROES Everywhere.. that OLD Walmart Greeter may have fought in WWII, you'll never know, but maybe what makes him a HERO is that he gets his ass UP every morning while his body screams in pain, and hauls his ass to WORK, just so his wife need not worry about where the Money will come from this week for her Heart Pills..

I say there are HEROES (and HEROINES) Everywhere, but that only the MEDIA will CASH IN ON ONE..

But what do YOU Think?

[Squatch]

1. She's my Hero:

[SharkSquid]

8. Ahhhhh thank you so veryy very much for that, Squatch

I needed a little bit of Hayden this morning, since there are no new episdoes for a while.

[CT_Progressive]

17. /drooooooooooool

OMFG.

I'm in lust.

[SharkSquid]

22. It makes me feel a little dirty because

she is the little girl in "Remember the Titans" but overall I am OK.

[SharkSquid]

23. It makes me feel a little dirty because

she is the little girl in "Remember the Titans" but overall I am OK.

[Catherine Vincent]

58. That's the little tough curly blonde in "Remember the Titans"?

I loved her character in that movie. She has grown up I see. :)

[SharkSquid]

60. Um Yeah

Just a little.

She is my dream woman, if I were 15 years younger :)

And not already married :)

Smart, environmentally conscious, beautiful.

[symbolman]

27. Is this the girl

that's no longer allowed in JAPAN, because she tried to save Whales? IF she's who I think she is, she's a Rabid Environmentalist, and is my Hero for that reason alone.. I cannot say more as my wife will no doubt be reading this thread :)

[SharkSquid]

30. That is her

The scene of her cyring because they could not save the dolphins is burned into my brain.

[symbolman]

32. I guess I would not be Channeling my "inner Hero"

by wondering if She MAKES Dolphin noises :)

[SharkSquid]

33. Oh dear

:rofl:


oh no

:spank:

bad me, I am deifnately going to hell for the thought you just engendered.

[symbolman]

38. I'll

be seeing you there.. save me a seat by the Fire, I'll bring the marshmallows :)

[Angela Shelley]

2. I think that the Walmart Greeter is a hero, too.

Remember the song from the 1970´s or 1980´s

"it´s my job to be cleaning up this mess, and that´s enough for me"

Sad, but true, Americans are always looking for a hero.

[blm]

3. Who puts themselves in the line of fire to save another? Whoever risks their

own lives and livelihood in an effort to preserve truth and democracy.

I consider truthtellers heroes these days.

[Echo In Light]

14. "I consider truthtellers heroes these days." Yes, & truth-seekers & pilgrims of all sorts

[symbolman]

36. I like to think of Heroism

as a Singular Moment of Clarity for Everyone Involved.. that would include Truthtelling I believe :)

[endarkenment]

4. Her claim that God chose her was insane. nt.

[KittyWampus]

31. your lack of philosophical understanding is lamentable, but typical here at DU.

[endarkenment]

44. Oh bullshit.

Look, I'm fine with what this woman did, she saved some lives, it was an act of self defense. I am not fine with her claim that God intervened to put her in that situation. That is lunacy. Did God also put the gunman in that situation? It is the same crap as sports teams beseeching Jesus to give them a victory, or thanking God for their victory. It is insane. There is nothing of any philosphical importance in this woman's claim to understand. Perhaps you meant 'emotional'?

[symbolman]

35. So that begs the question

"What would the Flying Spaghettie Monster Do?" :)

[TrogL]

76. Wrap everybody in His Noodly Appendages

until they sit down and shut up.

[DS1]

5. Nice JOB connecting THE military to this CHURCH shooter

RANDOM caps man.

[SharkSquid]

10. I havent felt the urge to shoot up my temple

but it might come, who knows.

[symbolman]

11. I'm a Veteran

was drafted during NAM.. did MY TIME.. and also worked in a VA afterwards, taking CARE of 300 guys scared SHITLESS BY WAR..

They will be killing hundreds of people when they return, especially with NO HELP FROM BUSH or the VA..

Work for you NOW? :)

[yourout]

6. I consider Russ Feingold a hero.

[LanternWaste]

7. My grandfather gave me a pretty satisfactory answer to the question...

My grandfather gave me a pretty satisfactory answer to the question, 'what is a hero?"

He said it's a person who goes above and beyond their own personal moral expectations AND above and beyond those same expectations placed on him/her by contemporary social mores.


As for the opinion of the media? Their opinion is based on whatever gets them the biggest check for the smallest amount of commercial time.

[YOY]

9. Killer Clown Story?

What's that? I missed it.

[symbolman]

12. Sorry, being Brash..

Calling yet another Killer a "clown"..

[YOY]

16. Damn...I thought that my favorite "worst movie ever" had come to life

[symbolman]

18. Heh

Then there's the BAND, who REALLY SUCKED.. :)

[Bluzmann57]

13. Different definitions for different people I guess

Ernie Banks was a hero of mine when I was a kid because I am an avid Cubs fan and he was always sunny, even when they stunk (which was usually), Jackie Robinson was, and is, a hero to me because of his historical signifigance both in sports and society as a whole. My parents are heroes because they did their level best to raise two children who would contribute something to society, as well as volunteering at soup kitchens, etc. and making sure we weren't bigoted assholes, thieves, and generally knowing right from wrong.
Heroes can come in all stripes and colors. It just depends on who, or what one thinks of heroism. Some think of soldiers as heroes, some think of athletes as heroes, some think of the old lady down the street as a hero.
I live here in a winter weather zone which is experiencing a winter storm as this is being written. Are the people out manning the snow plows heroes? No, they are just doing their jobs. Are the police who are out there today heroes? No, again they are just doing their jobs. But if a police officer saves someone's life after a wreck, then he or she is a hero. Is a fire fighter who saves a kid from a burning building a hero? Yes, even if they are just doing their job. Again, it depends on one's idea of what heroism is.

[aikoaiko]

15. I suspect some people are unhappy with the idea that a legally carried weapon was used to save lives

There are some who have argued that such actions (as taken by the hero shooter, Jeanne Assam) would be irresponsible, but this example stings their I-only-trust-the-police-to-protect-me mentality.



eta: Thank you Jeanne Assam.

[piedmont]

26. That's my guess. nt

[nashville_brook]

19. which leads to the question, why do we NEED heroes?

had a humanities class in college where heroism was a theme. the prof never spelled out WHY we focused on heroes in every chapter of history. rather, he asked what you ask: who is a hero. the point was, for every wave of history there's a hero who answers history's particular call at that moment.

by answering this question, we put our finger on the specific moral decay (or moral moment) of our time.

i'd say that a hero for our point in time, is someone who speaks truth to power and gets heard. it's the person who calls the radio talk show and calmly puts the discourse back on track. it's the employee who reveals the crimes of the corporation. it's the whistleblower.

the hero i'm waiting for is the John Dean of our generation. the first one to spit out the koolaid and sing like a canary -- they will be my personal hero.

the woman who killed the shooter did a good thing for the people in the church who were to become his victims. but, i don't get the feeling that she acted with great personal difficulty and her act of courage doesn't shed light on our "humanity." so, she's not a hero in a "humanities" sense.

[symbolman]

28. I assume you studied Campbell?

"Hero with a Thousand Faces"? It explains it all, in every culture, in every story..

[nashville_brook]

54. yes -- later in humanities studies -- the prof kept this to himself during the freshman class.

[livetohike]

20. Just had this same conversation with my husband this morning

Today,it seems everyone is a hero for just doing their job. No disrespect to those who work for the police or fire departments, or are in the military; however, these are careers for most people and they all know the dangers that can be encountered.

The word hero is so over used today and yes, I blame the media.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

21. Hero is hyperbole.

Ask anyone who's labeled a "hero", at least by those of us here, and those folks would probably be surprised by the description: They would most likely say, "I was just doing my job" or "Anyone else would have done the same" or "It was just the right thing to do".

I remember when the physician who provided pain relief to dying patients in the NOLA community hospital during Katrina testified before Congress. She was labeled a "hero" by some here, and it was of course said with admiration and respect. Yet, she wanted to spotlight not her "heroics" but the utter and complete breakdown of all their disaster contingency plans, and the grave impact it had on everyone in the hospital and it didn't have to happen.

As I said at the time, I doubt strongly that she or any of the other doctors and nurses felt they were heroic as they were trying to decide if they should self administer the remaining IV fluids to keep going, or if they should forgo hydration in favor of their patients. When that label is applied, it elevates that person to a level which can then remove the ability to feel empathy for that individual. After all, most of us are just regular joes, and that person is a HERO.

For me, I wish that word was retired, but, fat chance with Meredith Viera and Matt Lauer and Katie Couric dominating the airwaves.

MKJ

[symbolman]

24. I agree

it's a Media TOOL in some aspects...

What would have happened if a Satanist RAN into the church and shot the killer dead.. does anyone think they'd be allowed in TV to spout, "Praise SATAN! HE guided my GUN!" every thirty seconds?

[Prophet 451]

53. We wish

Just once, it'd be nice if a Satanist was on TV for something other than defending themselves against more bullshit slanders.

[Dukkha]

25. agreed the word is abused to the point of no meaning

especially post 9/11 where everyone was a "hero" even if you just watched it on TV.

[KittyWampus]

29. "Man is disturbed not by things, but by the views he takes of them." Epictetus

[porphyrian]

34. I don't believe heroic automatically action makes you a hero.

I think people are so desperate for heroes today that they'll call just about anyone doing what they think is good a hero. I think most real heroes are dead before they are called such. And it is way past time that people stop letting the lying corporate media define reality for them.

[symbolman]

41. No shit

that's one of my Major Peeves.. most people don't even realize that most of what they Eat, Smell, Taste, Watch and FEEL, are brought to them by Corporate Sponsors... hell, if you even sit down and try to THINK, someone will disturb you, the corporations are so ingrained now that if you are NOT PRODUCING, you will be bothered, attacked, insulted by someone who may have no idea that they are pushing a Corporate Agenda..

indeed, and I hate people who say indeed :), your WHOLE LIFE may be mostly Corporate Agenda, masked as a SOCIETY..

But where are the Heroes in THAT scenario? Wolf Blitzer? :)

[porphyrian]

46. Heh, that's a disturbing thought. -n/t

[symbolman]

68. Lol

Well ... YOU Started It :)

Good call that, thought it was just ME, going nuts...

[porphyrian]

71. Oh no, we're going batshit together, and there are a whole lot of us.

Unfortunately, I don't think health insurance covers it, though there may be some pharmaceutical products they can prescribe (on our own dime). There's only a slight chance of diarrhea, malignant tumors, stroke, skin irritation and death associated with them.

[electron_blue]

37. I think hero has always been hard to define. Nothing different about now.

[burythehatchet]

39. Its a good question

I believe a hero is someone who overcomes animal instincts and responds in harmony with God and nature (i.e., gives of herself)

Good parents are heroes, for example.

[Ezlivin]

40. I would say that Wesley Autey qualifies as a hero

Mr. Autrey was waiting for the downtown local at 137th Street and Broadway in Manhattan around 12:45 p.m. He was taking his two daughters, Syshe, 4, and Shuqui, 6, home before work.

Nearby, a man collapsed, his body convulsing. Mr. Autrey and two women rushed to help, he said. The man, Cameron Hollopeter, 20, managed to get up, but then stumbled to the platform edge and fell to the tracks, between the two rails.

The headlights of the No. 1 train appeared. “I had to make a split decision,” Mr. Autrey said.

So he made one, and leapt.

Mr. Autrey lay on Mr. Hollopeter, his heart pounding, pressing him down in a space roughly a foot deep. The train’s brakes screeched, but it could not stop in time.

Five cars rolled overhead before the train stopped, the cars passing inches from his head, smudging his blue knit cap with grease. Mr. Autrey heard onlookers’ screams. “We’re O.K. down here,” he yelled, “but I’ve got two daughters up there. Let them know their father’s O.K.” He heard cries of wonder, and applause.

Power was cut, and workers got them out. Mr. Hollopeter, a student at the New York Film Academy, was taken to St. Luke’s-Roosevelt Hospital Center. He had only bumps and bruises, said his grandfather, Jeff Friedman. The police said it appeared that Mr. Hollopeter had suffered a seizure. NY Times

[symbolman]

42. Jesus Christ!

Yep, no doubt there, none at all.. man, oh man.. thanks for that.. I think it's important to know that Heroes make us ALL Better people in the end, we all aspire to be one at some point or another, but I'd never do what this man did, not in a million years. yikes!

Here's an interesting Thought. Joseph Campbell, who wrote of cultures and Symbols, once said that one of the Reasons he believed in GOD was because that some people will dismiss the Instinct to SURVIVE that's deep in our DNA, forsake it to Swim out and SAVE someone who is DROWNING..

That act alone, one of Heroism made him think of GOD.

So no wonder we see someone shouting "Praise Jesus!" after they've taken THEIR OWN LIFE into their own hands.. :)

[MedleyMisty]

50. Eh - saving someone at the cost of danger to yourself is also instinct

and has nothing to do with a god. Altruism is built into us because helping each other out helps the whole species thrive and also if you help someone now they'll probably help you later.

Here's an article about altruism in chimpanzees and young children.

http://biology.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pbio.0050184&ct=1

[Peace Patriot]

75. Thanks, Symbolman! A good thought. I tend to think that we are aspiring to

become God. Some of us misinterpret that desire, and become messianic, and invade countries and slaughter tens of thousands of people, in various crusades throughout the ages (including the current one), thinking that God directs us and we are "heroes"--the human desire for perfection turned down a very dark path, indeed. But the aspiration to become...better than we think we are, to rise above physical limitations, to pursue truth in the sciences and arts, and all our efforts at individual improvement, and also collective social improvement, is a common characteristic of the human race, and is probably present in some form in every one of us. And it has taken the shape, in a good many peoples' minds, of a perfect Godhead, someone who is all just, all knowing, all merciful, all loving, all powerful. It is something we yearn for, and ARE CREATING.

Heroism is when you rise "above" yourself in a good cause, or in a good action. Our normal state is be on the selfish side, concerned about our next meal, and whether or not we will like the cuisine, and our own safety and comfort and well-being--perhaps (or in many cases) extended to our mates, our kids, our families and close friends. Heroism is when you put your own comfort and safety aside, for the sake of someone else--sometimes in spectacular acts of heroism, or in great causes, but more often in more limited, mundane ways--such as the heroics of poverty-stricken parents in achieving a college education for their offspring, or a teacher's inspiring efforts, day after day, in a school with difficult problems--poverty, racism, violence.

But now that I think about it, the one attribute we do NOT assign to Perfect God is courage. The all-courageous Godhead. It doesn't make sense. Even Jesus is not described as courageous, but rather as enduring.

So maybe the kind of courage we think of, when we think "hero," is a uniquely human characteristic--courage in the face of not knowing what your fate is going to be. And, again, courage--heroic action--in the face of human limitations. But I think it is still based on a desire to reach perfection.

I wonder if it is this that Campbell was thinking of--that human beings can heroically put their safety aside, and, at the serious risk of their own lives, try to save another. And this is the unique aspect of the human race that aims at God. There are other aspects--many of them--various endeavors toward improvement, understanding, generosity, large-mindedness, but being able to put aside your survival instinct, for another, is the most obvious and unique sign that we want to be MORE than ourselves, that we, even in our greatest moments of fear and danger, can leap to transcend ourselves, and do what God would do, if there is a God--rescue the weak, help someone ELSE. In truth, we have evidence all around us that, if God exists, he/she does NOT rescue people (or not often). People die in agony every day--needlessly, through malice, accident or disease. And God does nothing. But WE HUMANS *DO* rescue people. We are trying to create the God that we imagine. We are trying to become the God that we imagine--someone powerful who cares; someone who is perfectly just and merciful.

We are "God" to the people we rescue with heroic deeds--God for a moment, anyway. And, most often, people who do heroic deeds, think little of it, don't feel puffed up, say things like "anybody would have done the same." And I think they mean it. It is not an altogether conscious act. It is deeper--coming from our deepest desire to transcend ourselves and to create meaning in human existence, and to demonstrate the unselfish love that we crave.

I remember doing a heroic act (saving someone from drowning) when I was quite young, about 7 or 8. And I had zero consciousness that what I was doing was heroic. It's just what you do. What I did put my life at great risk. I told no one. And the person I saved doesn't even remember the incident. (--she was younger.) She would be dead today. We could both be dead, actually. But I did it without thought. My DNA said "save yourself." I did the opposite. And I must have had some kind of faith...in SOMETHING. I wouldn't call it "God." It was an affirmation of life outside of myself, of the value of another's life. Pure instinct. Where did it come from--if not from my desire to BE God? To GIVE life. To BE generosity itself. And I was so young that I would have to say that it's in the DNA. It's something we are born with. I would have been amazed and embarrassed if someone had seen the incident, and praised me as a "hero." Heroics is deeper than that. It is an act of pure selflessness. The act IS the transcendence. Putting the word "hero" on it just makes it onerous--an obligation. It is not an obligation. It is something extra we do, to create the God we wish was watching over us.

[symbolman]

79. Wow.

Just wow. I'm stunned by your insight.. Do you/have you considered writing books? I think you could convince or Move a whole lot of people with your writing.. You certainly move/inspired ME, lol..

Transcendance. That's it, getting closer to Spirituality as opposed to Religion.. Maybe THAT is one of the Components of what bothered so many people about this act, that and the Glibness of the "heroine", but that is understandable in a way too.. I've seen people in times of stress, one guy who hit a gal in the street once so close to me that she SPUN in the air next to my van's mirror, when questioned by the cops the man who hit her was LAUGHING! I was ready to jack him up, but the cop pulled me off him, HE knew that a person can react that way...

Transcendance. I love it, you are such a great boon to the DU, always a pleasure :)

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

81. Among some of the most thoughtful and beautiful posts I've ever read here on DU,

yours is a stunner.

Thanks for offering such a thought provoking and life and spirit affirming post.

MKJ


:hug:

[symbolman]

87. She needs to start a new thread with that post

so it gets on the front page, I'd recommend the Hell out of it, as would others I'm certain..

Like I said, "Wow. Just Wow." blown away...

[MyNameGoesHere]

43. personally i am mortified that a "heroes" claim to fame

is that they had to gun another human being down. If that is some peoples hero we are truly fucked.

[symbolman]

45. I think it's

"Welcome to the Future" time.. yes, I agree completely, the bar gets lower and lower, don't it?

[Tejas]

55. heroic LEO's save lives every week, get used to it. n/t

[MyNameGoesHere]

66. Why should i get over the glorification of death? Would it not

be better if death were naturally occurring rather than at the end of a gun? Please learn what a hero is before you vomit replies.

[symbolman]

70. Good point!

Notice he can't defend vomit, so he just picks a new target.. Cute..

You've got my vote, the "thou shalt not kill" guy couldn't have had her aim for a less vital region?

Though I have to admit, in that situation, so Charged, I would have gone for a vital spot too, but not blamed Gid for it, or come off as a contestant on The Dating Game..

[MyNameGoesHere]

73. I understand

and it is my hope that one day the people of this world do not have to make a choice between maiming someone or killing them. It is my hope that one day the norm will be no one killing another person. But that is a grand wish, and as long as we keep making hero's of this type of travesty then it will be a fight until the last man standing i suppose.

[Tejas]

78. gigglers would find fault in Medals of Honor

carry on.

[MyNameGoesHere]

89. i am sure you are wrong.

It is not the PERSON doof. It is the method the hero is made. Killing, no matter what is not a thing i glorify or worship. No fault in CMH recipients, just ain't it a damn shame how they got em?

[Tejas]

47. you compare our troops to the dead criminal?

"Everyone is Flaming each other over that chick who blew away yet another killer clown (and get used to it, there'll be a 140,000 killers, thanks to Bush, coming home in the future) in a Church, and we're almost used to that,"

Speaking of flaming right off the bat, did you borrow this line from Phelps?

[Countdown_3_2_1]

48. Yeah, that comparison was an asswwipe thing to say

Disagree with the war all you want, but support the troops.

[symbolman]

56. Read a paper, pay attention

they are by majority from lower income and/or the South/Bible Belt.. The very place where they were taught "thou shalt not kill" will most likely be at least one place where they will crack, take their aggressions out, suffering from mental Health problems and the massive head injuries unheard of in Nam (the period during which I enlisted and Served Honorably..)

There will be plenty of killing by the scores by Veterans who will get NO help from BUSH's trashing of VA hospitals... As I mentioned upthread I worked in a VA when I exited the war, cared for 300 mentally ILL Vets directly, hundreds more through a Community Care program where we injected homeless Vets with Thorozine, then turned them loose to starve in the streets, talking to parking meters - Too Fucked Up to SHOOT anyone...

I've been in the trenches on this, and the only comparison to the Troops was that they will come home to kill TOO...

I do not support the Troops under ALL circumstances.. This Just In -Sadly, they will also be beating their wives and committing suicide in record numbers as well..

They may all be Heroes, but they will suffer, and so will WE, thanks to BUSH.

[Tejas]

61. "There will be plenty of killing by the scores by Veterans" = digging to China

You're halfway there, don't stop now!

[symbolman]

64. You know bub

I usually don't even answer those with no profile here, so that's all you get.. Most people know that me, and Takebackthemedia.com (my site) have done Plenty battling this admin, and Supporting Troops.. Being a newcomer here you've probably got no idea that I've been on the O'Reilly show, Scarborough Twice, and Lou Dobbs for SUPPORTING troops, as well as having created the "Army of One" Flash, Political ad that ran 3000 times all over the Eastern Seaboard during the Dem Primaries, as well as being one of the 14 Finalists in MoveOn.Org's "Bush in 30 Seconds" contest out of 1600 Entries..

My site practically INVENTED the Flash Political Attack Ad Online.. Also been sued by Michael Savage for a half a million bucks..

Anyone want to puncture this person's balloon for me, or have I faded into obscurity already? :)

Anyway, you want to fill me in on all of your activism, or would you rather get the fuck out of my face?

Last transmission dude, flame away with that Bic lighter you got there...

[Tejas]

65. good deeds = license to post crap.

Mother Theresa wouldn't get away with it, so quit feeling so special.

[symbolman]

67. Refusal to answer question as to Activism, no Profile = Paranoid

Referring to California as "Kali" = Whiff of Group we know..

[Tejas]

77. when called on wreckless comments, if all else fails

respond with childish rhetoric...we'll understand.



ps: Stalking, er, chasing me down, er..um....making irrelevant replies out of the blue to my posts in other forums is flattering. Let's not make it an obsession, okay?


;)


edit: spared the rod

[kentuck]

49. Thanks symbolman.

For the comment you made on the thread that was just locked. Sometimes I have to check to make sure this is still DU??

[symbolman]

57. No problem my friend

I was amazed at the lockstep mentality there.. You ain't no freeper, I know that for sure! I think a lot of folks fall in line unwittingly with status quo when there's killing, that's how so many of us get dragged into situations where if looks like we've been duped..

I prefer ALL the info I can get before I disagree with everybody.. :)

[L0oniX]

51. Nascar drivers, NFL and NBA players are NOT heros.

I am tired of hearing that corporate bull shit moron speak.

[Marrah_G]

52. A hero is someone who:

Puts their life or personal welfare on the line to save another.

I think as with many other words, it has been expanded so much that the original meaning is watered down to the point where it is hardly recognizable. War on Drugs, War on Christmas, War on terrorism..... not really WAR.... Yet the meaning of the word has been so bastardized it no longer carries the weight it ought to hold. I see this with many terms, even on Du, and some folks get very upset if you call them on it.

[Javaman]

59. Don't you know that god is a bullet? nt

[NGinpa]

62. Boy that cried wolf?

Whenever you overuse previously meaningful terms, such as miracle and hero, you cheapen the meaning of those terms so that the real thing gets buried in the mediocrity. Part of the conservatives' false patriotism campaign and their one-sided religious preaching is to get to control people so these folks do not question. Terms such a patriotic hero and religiously blessed are buzz words to shut down the mind of people. This post is a good example that it is working because indeed the term hero is now more meaningless than it has ever been because it us used to bring people to a dictated point of view everyday.

[symbolman]

69. I disagree on one point

that "this post shows that it is working" - both of what we've said here and what others have posted shows we are THINKING, and that's precisely what they Don't want, since they Live to Conscript Symbols, Icons, and Archetypes..

The rest of what you say I agree with, and thanks for making that point..

[NGinpa]

74. But readers here

are not conservatives, so the "we are THINKING" phrase does not apply. When conservatives begin to write posts like we now see here, then I will agree both that this BS technique is being discredited and that Conservatives are on their way down. We as a nation are NOT there yet!

[SoCalDem]

63. A hero does something UNEXPECTED from them

a neighbor kid with no training, who rushes into a burning house & saves three kids..hero..

a mother who saves another's child from drowning, even though she's not a strong swimmer...heroine

a boss who takes a paycut and takes on management to save jobs ...hero

a kid who tells a "dangerous secret" told in confidence by a friend..hero

a fellow traveler who stops at the scene of an accident and renders first aid..hero

people who do good deeds anonymously..heros

[treestar]

72. The term has been watered down

By the media. It now includes all victims and all people who are doing their jobs (security guards, etc) at the time of a crisis.
It includes all military personnel, all police and firemen, anyone trained for a job involving something dangerous.

At least it does not exclude persons who qualify under what was once the more limited definition - those who stand up for what is right, even if it is dangerous and the normal person would let the right go by in light of the danger.

[lonestarnot]

80. Personally heerows these days bug me.

[ileus]

82. So all our troops are going to be killers? or are killers?

Just wondering.

[piedmont]

83. For some reason, the OP gets rather stalkerish when questioned about that.

see upthread.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

84. What do you mean?

When I was in the Army, I was trained to kill. Isn't that what one is to do as a G.I. ?

MKJ

[symbolman]

86. My point exactly

and now the tittybabies are crying that I'm mean to them, a Stalker! Oh No! HE Posted in THEIR Thread! Run Away, run away!

I've been here for damn near 7 years and never seen such whining, just another "drive by" post with nothing really to say other than some kind of "neener neener neener" while damn fine writing like Peace Patriot is on display, along with dozens of descriptions of what a HERO IS..

What did you use to learn to kill with, anyway? Old enough to have used an M16? :) of course we were Air Force and didn't get the Really Fun munitions you Army guys did...

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

88. Good morning..

Had to just turn off the DU last night, what with the flotsam cluttering up the place.

We were trained on M16's, M60's, setting up claymores, and ("backblast area clear") LAW's. The M60 training was memorable and
the LAW's gave lots of bang for the buck, so to speak.

During basic training we threw live grenades, the NCO who ran that training exercise had ice water in his veins, LOL.

I'll date myself by saying a large part of the training consisted of identifying Soviet vs. NATO land vehicles, especially tanks.

Every time I think I'm past being surprised by something I read here, something surprising pops up the latest being the accusation of stalking leveled at you.

I'd imagine some of our, ahem, newer DU members would be surprised at the number of military veterans here, no?

:-) MKJ

[symbolman]

90. heh, flotsam

the big wide DU river runs a little shallow at times, eh?

LIVE grenades in Basic? Christ! Closest we came in the AF during Basic was Live machine gun fire over the wires we practiced crawling under, those with bigger asses had more hell of a time, though only one was taken away with an extra hole to hang over the Loo :)

Now THAT Sgt was a goddam Hero, bet he spent his evenings at the NCO Club..

Got to admit that we got jealous, and were embarrassed, as in the AF in the early 70s we had freakin' Maid Service in the Barracks.. All that changed when the All Volunteer Force came into play.. All the low lifes boiled into the Military, had a few drug dealers in the base stab themselves to death on Base multiple times, curiously enough while their hands were tied behind their backs..

It wasn't only the enemy where being a killer came in handy, at times the Military Lifestyle itself was the Enemy when it came to men cracking up.. With a lot of that kept under wraps.. What happens on the Base STAYS on the Base, like in Vegas..

Civies have no idea..

Yeah, there's more vets here than FreeperLand for damn sure, or those that share that "tough guy" while whining mentality :)

Thanks for Serving, Brother, glad we've made it back to the World..

Soviet tanks, wild..

[Rex]

85. I purposely didn't read/watch anything about the story

and if she stopped someone from killing another person, then ya she is a hero.

Whatever else she is, is inconsequential IMO.