So non-Mormons are not allowed in Mormon wedding ceremonies

[DemGa]

<<Who can attend the temple ceremony?

Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who have a current temple recommend—meaning they possess a small card which demonstrates they have interviewed with the appropriate priesthood leaders and been found worthy to enter the House of the Lord—are able to attend a sealing ceremony.>>

http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/mormon/weddings/

Can you imagine being kept out of your son or daughter's wedding? I found this kind of shocking.


EDIT: The Temple ceremony.

[crim son]

1. I know about this. An old boyfriend's sister married a Mormon

and his Catholic family was not allowed to attend the wedding. There was little contact for the years after the wedding and then I lost touch with the family. It always seemed so wrong... the daughter was the shining star of the family, and she allowed herself to be taken away.

[Tesha]

50. One of the hallmarks of a cult is they tend to isolate the cultists from the rest of us. (NT)

[cgrindley]

2. There's a bunch of goofy shit with polyester and anointing the crotch

with oil, too. I had a ex-Mormon girlfriend who had been married in Salt Lake. She had to wear some ridiculously ugly piece of shit polyester robe over her wedding dress and get anointed on the crotch with oil.

[FreeState]

6. LOL there is no crotch anointing sorry...

and the washing and anointing ceremony is not part of the wedding ceremony,

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

18. One must wonder...

Were croutons involved? ;-)

[TechBear_Seattle]

19. I think you are confusing the Endowment with the Sealing

Two different ceremonies. The Endowment must be done before a Mormon may take part in any other Temple ritual, including a Temple wedding. It is often the case that their wedding will be the first time a couple enters a Temple, in which case the Endowment is done first and the wedding itself latter in the day. The Endowment itself is preceeded by a ritual of washing and anointing. Early versions of this ritual washed and anointed the head, ears, eyes, lips, neck, shoulders, back, chest, stomach, arms and hands, "loins" and legs and feet. The current ritual (as of 1990, at least) washes and anoints only the head. I bet you are thinking of the older version of this pre-Endowment ceremony.

[FreeState]

21. I was endowed in 1990 and the Washing and Anointing ceremony

included "washed and anointed the head, ears, eyes, lips, neck, shoulders, back, chest, stomach, arms and hands, "loins" and legs and feet" - I did them for the dead afterword too and those parts are still included all the way up to 1997 (I have not been in 10 years though now so it may have changed since.)

ON EDIT: just found this:

On January 18, 2005, the LDS Church changed the washing and anointing ritual to eliminate the touching of the subject's body parts by the person administering the ordinance.<1>

[TechBear_Seattle]

23. Thanks for the info

I have been trying to find well-written and accurate information while avoiding the many "here is why Mormons are icky!" web sites; that is a surprisingly difficult prospect. Thanks for the info.

[Marrah_G]

51. You would REALLY freak out of my religious practices then !

[flyarm]

3. MORMONS GET MARRIED IN A REGULAR WEDDING....

i have dear friends Mormons and have gone to all their kids weddings..

AFTER the wedding the couple can go to temple and take their vows again.

fly

[tekisui]

4. You must be a member of the church.

And, be in good, worthy standing to attend.

They have a waiting room for those not *worthy*.

[question everything]

5. Mrs. Romney was not a Mormon so she was not allowed

at a Mormon temple. (I don't know whether she was present in her own wedding...)

[kskiska]

7. I was taught that non-Catholics' participation in Catholic weddings is frowned upon

(best man, matron of honor, etc.) At any rate, they're not allowed to step within the altar rail at such a ceremony. Also, they cannot serve as Godparents at baptisms.

As Catholics, we were not allowed to attend a non-Catholic service of any kind.

I haven't been to church in a long time, so I don't know if that's changed.

[TechBear_Seattle]

10. Feh! I served communion at my brother's Catholic wedding

Chatting with the priest before Mass, I learned that he had been to Seattle before and was QUITE interested to learn that I lived on Capitol Hill, Seattle's main gay neighborhood. He was familiar with the *ahem* main drag, but before he could drop more beads the wedding was scheduled to start.

[NutmegYankee]

31. Non-Catholics can now be Godparents as long as one of them is Catholic. n/t

[Marrah_G]

53. Well of course they can't be god parents

God Parents vow to help raise the child within the Church.

[Release The Hounds]

66. Our daughter was baptized last year

And her Godmother is not Catholic.

[chelaque liberal]

56. I left the Catholic Church because of my wedding.

Although I had started to have a lot of questions while in high school, the controversy about the wedding confirmed my decision. My (future) father-in-law was a Lutheran minister who had performed the wedding of his three other children. My family was very Irish Catholic and I wanted to honor that, so I talked to the priest about an ecumenical ceremony. He told me that Dad could stand with us but that he couldn't officiate. I thought that was insulting. We were married outside in a garden by Dad. My grandparents refused to come.

Thirty seven years later I have no regrets.

[Missy Vixen]

57. I was a bridesmaid in a Catholic wedding in 1990

>At any rate, they're not allowed to step within the altar rail at such a ceremony<

A priest from Seattle University was the officiant. I was the only "non-Catholic" (despite being baptized a Catholic at birth) in the wedding party. He went so far as to refuse to serve Communion if I remained on the platform during that portion of the wedding. The rest of the wedding party was unhappy with his stance, but I chose to sit elsewhere instead of causing a problem during the ceremony.

Hopefully, things have changed since...
Julie

[DearAbby]

8. The Temple is a sacred place

and for members of the church only. We went to visit the tabernacle, which is open to the public, (once you run the gauntlet of missionaries, stopping you to tell you their testimony) They were having a wedding the day we visited, many people walking about outside the Temple doors, which were open, we could have slipped in, but we chose to honor their faith.

Very interesting building with signs of Masons, and other oddities. I was told a while back (meaning 30 yrs ago) the Temple in Salt Lake is a replica of the Temple that stood in Israel. The Statue of the Angel Moroni, which stands on top of the Temple is really beautiful against the blue Utah sky.

[TechBear_Seattle]

9. There is a difference between a Temple wedding and a non-Temple wedding

Only people with a Temple Recommend are allowed to attend Temple ceremonies, including wedding ceremonies held inside of a Mormon Temple. To get a recommend, you must be a Mormon in good standing and have the recommendation of church officials attesting to your devotion to the religion. If you do not have a Recommend, even if you are a Mormon, you are not allowed inside a Temple, period.

Wedding ceremonies that take place outside of a Temple are open to all, with no restrictions.

[FreeState]

12. Actually the ceremony in the temple is called a "sealing"

and is considered to bind the two together for eternity while any wedding done in an LDS church that anyone can attend is "until death do you part".

[TechBear_Seattle]

16. Sealings seem to be referred to as weddings an awful lot by Mormons I know

The ceremony, as you said, supposedly weds the couple for all eternity. I have some married friends whose only wedding was the Temple ceremony, and I know there are plenty of Mormon couples who never have the Temple ceremony. Anyway, my point was that the OP was incorrect.

[FreeState]

17. If a couple is married civilly first they get sealed in the temple

a year later (one must be a member for a year before they can go through the temple). If they are married in the temple the first time they get a two for one with both the civil ceremony and the sealing - however when members say "temple wedding" they are referring to the sealing not the civil even though both are done at the same time 90% of the time.

If you are married civilly and not in the temple you can have your children "sealed" to you as well at the same time. Any children you have after a temple wedding are automatically sealed to you. In addition if your spouse dies before you can get sealed in the temple you can still be sealed with a proxy even though your one spouse has passed on, same with the kids. Complicated I know LOL - but when you grow up with it its old hat:)

Sorry for the cofusion. In general on DU most of the things you hear about mormons are incorrect ;)

[TechBear_Seattle]

22. ALL marriages are civil

All that is necessary to be married is to say you two want to married while in the presence of two valid witnesses and someone empowered by Law to take such an oath, then everyone signs a document. Every single religious wedding performed in the United States is actually a civil marriage that either preceeds or (more commony) follows a religious ritual that has no legal purpose or substance.

But try telling that to the "marriage is a religious institution" crowd. :eyes:

Anyway, I think we both agree on the substance and are haggling only on the semantics. And I agree that most of the things posted around here about Mormons are incorrect, which is why I have been posting on the topic recently. I have little regard for the LDS Church (apologies, but I don't think I can sugar coat that view) but I feel obligated to make sure that opinions (be they good or bad) are based on facts and not untruths. If I wander too far from that standard, feel free to smack me down.

[FreeState]

24. Oh I wont need to smack you

you seem to get most of it :0

I should note Im doing the same basic thing as you - I am Mormon - however I do not believe - its more of a cultural thing (Like a Jew being Jewish and not believing in the faith). I basically try to just correct the facts an help people understand the religion. Im also gay so I have that spin to it all too LOL...

[Manifestor_of_Light]

33. Then there is common-law marriage.

In the common-law states, which are all Western, starting with Texas and going west, you can live together, cohabit, hold yourself out as husband and wife, and you have a common law marriage, assuming you have no prior impediments, such as a hubby or wife. You have to be single or officially divorced. There is no time limit on it, contrary to what most people think.

I had some in-laws once that were scared that my shackmate and I were going to wake up the morning six months after we moved in together and automatically be married. They were not lawyers and they believed that. I told them "Show me in the Texas Family Code where it says you are automatically married after six months." They couldn't, of course.

You can go down to the courthouse and register a common-law marriage in Texas. The western states also tend to have community property which means that the woman is presumed to be equal to the man in earning ability, and can own property in her own name when she is married, etc.

In Texas, we have valid case law stating a woman can own and transfer property in her own name dating back to 1836, the first year of the Republic of Texas. That is a far cry from Blackstone of England stating that in marriage, two people become one in a legal fiction, and that one person is the husband. English common law is also where the term "rule of thumb" comes from. :puke:

This comes from the Spanish law, which is far more equal to women than the English law of the northeast, or the Code Napoleon of Louisiana.

Yes, it is true that marriage is a civil contract, and nothing religious enters into it unless you want it to. That's why you can be married by a judge, starting with a J.P. and going all the way up the line, thru appellate judges.


Yes, I am a lawyer but I do not play one on TV.

[TechBear_Seattle]

54. Not all in the west

The Wikipedia entry for common-law marriage in the United States lists Alabama, Colorado, the District of Columbia, Iowa, Kansas, Montana, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas, and Utah. Common law marriage existed in Pennsylvania until 2003, when a lower court ruled that common-law marriages were invalid even though the state Supreme Court had ruled otherwise only 5 years before. Efforts by the courts and legislature to resolve the question have only muddied the waters further. New Hampshire is interesting, in that common law marriage is recognized only after one of the couple dies, ie it used to determine inheritance rights and next-of-kin status but does not allow for co-habitation rights or common property.

Many of these states would be surprised, even offended, if they were called Western states. :hi:

And anyway, this underlines one of the points I was making: all marriages are civil, as common law marriages are recognized by civil law and most certainly NOT by religious law.

[Love Bug]

62. I have a question

And I ask this with all respect. My understanding is a couple married in the Temple are considered married for all eternity (as understood by the LDS church). If one spouse dies, and the widowed spouse remarries in the Temple, who is married to whom in eternity or are the all married together?

I'm confused...

[FreeState]

63. The man is able to remarry in the temple

the woman is not. A couple can get a temple divorce if both spouses are still alive, but if a woman's husband passes away she can not be sealed to another man again.

So basically it boils down to that a man can be sealed for time and all eternity to multiple women. A woman however can only be sealed to one man.

So a man would have multiple wives in the next life - I was always taught that no one knows what will happen there - that the multiple wives could be reassigned to a man that had no wives in this life, leaving a one man and one woman relationship, however that is not doctrine and just plain speculation by members. I have a feeling that is how my mom justified it in her head, but many members I know of have stated similar hopes/beliefs.

[rockymountaindem]

11. Who cares?

It's their temple, their religion, their ceremony. Do you really want to go that badly or is this just another way to make fun of people most people here know little or nothing about?

[DemGa]

14. I don't want to go at all

But it did affect people I directly know. I did indeed find it kind of bizarre.

[judaspriestess]

13. parents can't even attend the actual ceremony, no one can

the actual wedding is performed behind closed doors. I went to a wedding reception from a girl I worked with at the time.

[FreeState]

15. Any member with a temple recommend can attend

though space is limited, the largest of sealing rooms can only hold about 40 people. Its usually just immediate family and then a reception afterword that is open to whom ever.

[judaspriestess]

29. don't know why this one was different

no one but the bishop(I think is how they are called) and the two people getting married went behind closed doors for the actual exchanging of the vows.:shrug:

[FreeState]

34. Thats highly unusual

the bishop wouldn't marry them either - there is an actual church calling to become a "Sealer" in the Temple - its not done by Bishops.

Besides there is no closed door in a Sealing room - its typically a room with no doors or windows with an Altur in the middle and then seats around the walls of the room.

Sounds like they got married in a Church not one of the Temples (thats where a Bishop would marry them - a Temple marriage is different).

[gate of the sun]

20. I loathe to admit I was raised a Mormon

and I'm only chiming in because you all don't know what your talking about. I have alot of bitterness over how I was raised.....believe me it's a process of brainwashing........in my 20's I knew many that tried to break away and they found it very difficult and most sadly returned to that church...for me I read philosophy and other religious writings and somehow found myself free. I have nothing good to say about mormons they are a cult and they brainwash their children and teens. Alot of time is spent at their meetings...including early morning am meetings mon-fri for teens.......I could go on and on and believe me I am embarrassed to even admit that I was raised one.....but I feel the mormon religion is very damaging to young minds and just for you all who don't know Joseph Smith who supposedly started this church was a mason and the temple ceremonies mimic much of that.........anyone for what it's worth it doesn't need alot of defending. That's all I have to say about that.

[tekisui]

28. gate of the sun

Very well said. I share your experience. I was raised mormon and don't even like to mention it. I quit going the day I moved out of my parents home, and never went back. Thanks for posting.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

35. Read Sonia Johnson. She left because she couldn't stand being an oppressed woman.

She left and wrote books about it and was on TV for a while.

Apparently the Mormons were shocked that a woman would get disgusted, leave and start speaking and writing about it.

[The_Casual_Observer]

25. It's really nobody's business what those people do.

Poking fun at a person's religious beliefs & practices is cruel & childish school yard shit.

[Common Sense Party]

26. Amen to that. Very well said.

Making fun of what others hold dear, consider sacred, and gives them hope or understanding...that's just showing a lack of class.

Same thing as making fun of someone's lack of religious belief.

This is America. People can believe or not believe whatever they want.

[sjdnb]

27. It IS if it's going to affect national policy

These guys all chime in with their wannabe-JFK moments (in an attempt to codify anyone who might actually believe in the separation of church and state) only to follow with the obligatory 'my faith guides me' moments. And, in Romney's case, he specifically said, "I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it. My faith is the faith of my fathers – I will be true to them and to my beliefs."

Well, guess what, the 'faith of his fathers' is racist, sexist, and homophobic. It was only in 1978 that they allowed blacks full membership in their church (recognized the size of the voting block).

Further, his attempt to 'spin' the Mormon faith into Christianity is the manifestation of his desire to win over the Christian right --- and, how does he choose to do that, not by standing proud of his faith, but by obfuscating the tenets, doctrine, history, and dogma associated with his religion.

Hey, had he come out and said -- hey, this is what I believe - like it or leave it, I'd have had more respect for him.

But, he didn't. And, he and others who continue to compromise their beliefs or principles for political gain/expediency represent a lot of what has gone wrong in this country.

BTW, I am not into the whole superstition/myth thing -- so, it all seems a little silly to me.

[silverojo]

32. It's not poking fun

It's expressing concern about some seriously messed-up thinking that these people impose upon their flock. It goes far beyond even that which the fundies have come up with.

I've lived around Mormons long enough to know what these people really are doing. And I applaud anyone who has managed to get out from under this cultish "faith".

[Irreverend IX]

48. Religion is not like race or sexuality.

Religion is something people choose, and many religions are dangerous forms of collective derangement. The Mormon church has shown itself to be particularly menacing due to its Mafia-like behavior and its capacity for brainwashing. Complacency toward such a destructive belief system is foolish.

[MichaelHarris]

30. All this talk about

how well endowed everyone is, crap let's see some pictures!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

36. They ask people for the names of their dead relatives so they can baptise them.

A Jewish friend of mine said the Mormon schoolmates asked her "What are your grandparents' names?" so they could get them posthumously baptised when she lived in Phoenix.

The Mormon church was sued over that, and they admitted they had baptised Anne Frank and Albert Einstein, as well as thousands of other people. They said they wouldn't do it again, but I doubt that they kept their word, since they think everybody else is going to hell and needs to be baptised after death.

That's probably why they keep massive genealogy records on millions of non-Mormons.

[FreeState]

37. Thats not how its done

The church uses Genealogy to get names for Temple Ordinances. These names must be documented via official genealogy records - you can not ask a schoolmate for someone's name and just go and do Ordinance work for them in the Temple. The name has to be documented with a death certificate, entered into a database, researched and okayed via the church etc...

As to the Church baptizing some Jewish people that had passed away that did happen and the church has apologized for it and has instituted checks in the computer system they use to ensure it does not happen again. The Jewish names that had their Ordinance work done for them were submitted via a Genealogy bank - meaning they were documented as relatives of living LDS church members - otherwise the church will not do the ordinance work for individuals until they are at least 100 years deceased or related to a church member.

[REP]

40. The LDS Genealogical "data"base is not fully purged

Then again, it's not fully accurate, either; it has my great-great-grandmother living to be something like 302 years (the submitter, a lunatic fringe relation, conflated several birth/death dates) to give just one example. Considering how many serious errors there are in the LDS records for this one line, my faith has been shaken in LDS genealogical research and verification.

[FreeState]

41. They did not agree to purge the names

they agreed to not do ordinance work for them.

If you find an error your free to let the church know and they will fix it - its all volunteer work so I imagine there are lots of errors that get by.

[REP]

43. Naw - Just not asking the records be removed

The information is so wrong as to be useless, which is fine with me. It's not hurting my ancestors - they're dead - and I find it amusing that their names are there.

[REP]

38. Sealings are not quite the same as marriages

Mormons get married, and some marriages are 'sealed.' Outsiders are not allowed to attend 'sealings' but they can attend weddings. 'Sealings' happen in a restricted part of the temple; weddings are performed in the public part of the church.

[FreeState]

39. Yes and no

if you are both temple worthy you do not have anything but a sealing.

For example my brother married his wife in the temple. They had a reception afterwards for everyone but there was only one wedding ceremony performed - in the temple. It was both the civil and the Sealing at the same time.

However say you were married civilly and then converted to the church - then you could be sealed in the temple at a later date (but its technically just a religious ceremony then and not the civil ceremony because you would already be married civilly.)

The only wedding that take place in a public part of an LDS church (not a temple) are civil ones and they are not encorraged - they are usually only done for mixed faith marriages or converts that have not been a member at least a year and don't qualify for a temple marriage yet (you have to be a member at least a year to enter the temple). Unless its changed in the last 10 years or so since I quit going SLC sent out a directive that marriages in the ward buildings/steak centers were not to take place in the chaple - thats how much they discourage it - they wont even let them take place in the chapel (they are usually done in a gym or Relief Society room).

[REP]

42. I believe 2nd marriages are not sealed

This may be a doctrinal difference between LDS and RLDS, but even in the afterlife, wives are now limited to one, so if a widower remarried, that marriage could not be sealed (for example).

On edit: a first marriage may be sealed separately if the couple wishes Gentiles to attend the wedding ceremony for whatever reason - unconverted parents, social reasons, etc.

[FreeState]

44. Yeah that would be the sexism issue...

Its very sexist here if a man's wife dies he can be sealed to another but a woman can only be sealed to one man (this is for LDS I do not believe RLDS - Church of Christ - has ever done sealings seeing they don't do temple work).

There was a time though back when Joseph Smith was alive that some women were sealed to more than one man - but that was rare and usually do to JS marrying a woman that was already married. I believe that practice, along with sealing men to men as brothers or chosen families (not as gay partners), were ended by Brigham Young.

[REP]

45. Thanks for understanding even though I messed up the genders!

I got mixed up typing and didn't catch it on edit, but you knew what I meant!

The RLDS I knew - a long time ago when I lived in e Garden of Eden and they still called themselves RLDS - claimed they did temple work, but again, not going to argue over who calls what what in a church as long as I don't have to go.

[FreeState]

64. Are you sure they were RLDS?

If you were living in Jackson County (Independence) MO there is only one temple there, built about 15 years ago, by the RLDS . There is a very small sect of about 250 people who believe that once Jesus comes back they will be told whom the temple lot property they own belongs to (SLC LDS or Church of Christ LDS). (see: http://www.dlmark.net/tindependence.htm) that may do temple work in a tabernacle there (if I recall correctly).

Here is what the Church of Christ (RLDS) has to say about there one and only temple in Independence MO:

Do you perform sacraments in your Temple in Independence?

The Community of Christ Temple in Independence, Missouri, is a house of public worship, and entrance into the Temple or participation in its ministries is open to all. Communion (the Lord's Supper) is often served during special services in the Temple sanctuary. Other sacraments are provided in local congregations.

http://www.cofchrist.org/ourfaith/faq.asp

[oasis]

46. The Mormons I know are honest, hard working, family oriented people.

What they believe and how they worship is none of my concern.

[soothsayer]

47. Hubby gives you a secret name (the one he will use to call you to his planet

later when he gets one---IF he wants you as one of his wives) and then pulls you through a big slit in a sheet.

[FreeState]

59. almost

the name. Is believed to ne used to call her up from the grave, i.e. The resurrction. Men have names as well - no planets involved sorry ;)

[DFW]

49. It's a good thing there were no Mormons involved at my wedding, then

I had a double wedding with my brother, and our wives were (still are), respectively,
a German Catholic (retired, parents still practicing) and a Japanese Shinto
Buddhist (also retired, parents still practicing). Guests included a roster
that looked like a mini United Nations, and I think about the only religion NOT
represented was Mormon.

Just as well. It would have been awkward for all of us to have to have our ceremony
in some tiny waiting room somewhere.......

[theHandpuppet]

52. It happened to my brother

My brother married a widow with two small children. Her first husband, an abusive alcoholic, had committed suicide in front of his two children as the ultimate act of spite.

My brother loved and raised these children as his own. When one, upon adulthood, converted to the Mormon faith and married, my brother, his father, was not even allowed inside the temple to witness the ceremony. Instead, he had to stand outside along with other members of both the husband and bride's families who were not of the faith.

I'm sorry, but that really turned me off of the Mormon cult. After seeing my brother treated like crap I have no use for them.

[JVS]

55. And I'm not allowed to be bar-mitvah'd. What's your point?

[spoony]

61. Then what am I going to do with this pen set I bought you?

:P

[Javaman]

58. It's the whole blood soaked robes thing that they don't want to get out.

that and they all talk in pig-latin. That stuff really doesn't play well to the general public, ya know?

[Momgonepostal]

65. I can't tell if this post is a joke...

or if you really think that?

It's about as whacky as much of the other misinformation spread about the LDS church on the internets.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

60. So Christians don't allow gay people to get married?

Yikes.