Neighborhood-By-Neighborhood Surveillance and no fuckin warrant.

[kpete]

US Neighborhoods Spied Upon, NYT Exposes Larger Extent of Warrentless Taps
by SmileySam
Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 01:57:19 PM PST

Deep in your gut you hoped it hadn't got this bad, but knew different didn't you ? I sure felt that way, but as the voting away of more of our Civil Rights draws close the New York Times spills a few more beans, big beans.

In a separate N.S.A. project, executives at a Denver phone carrier, Qwest, refused in early 2001 to give the agency access to their most localized communications switches, which primarily carry domestic calls, according to people aware of the request, which has not been previously reported. They say the arrangement could have permitted neighborhood-by-neighborhood surveillance of phone traffic without a court order, which alarmed them.

Neighborhood-By-Neighborhood Surveillance and no fuckin warrant. Wider Spying Fuels Aid Plan for Telecom Industry

As Bushco is running around trying to lobby anyone it can think of, or whose arm they can twist to get the immunity, to hear them tell it, it's no big deal. They put down some of the evidence and witnesses. One of the Lawyers on the case sees it much different, and says so.

The accusations rely in large part on the assertions of a former engineer on the project. The engineer, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said in an interview that he participated in numerous discussions with N.S.A. officials about the proposal. The officials, he said, discussed ways to duplicate the Bedminster system in Maryland so the agency "could listen in" with unfettered access to communications that it believed had intelligence value and store them for later review. There was no discussion of limiting the monitoring to international communications, he said.

"At some point," he said, "I started feeling something isn’t right."

Two other AT&T employees who worked on the proposal discounted his claims, saying in interviews that the project had simply sought to improve the N.S.A.’s internal communications systems and was never designed to allow the agency access to outside communications. Michael Coe, a company spokesman, said: "AT&T is fully committed to protecting our customers’ privacy. We do not comment on matters of national security."

But lawyers for the plaintiffs say that if the suit were allowed to proceed, internal AT&T documents would verify the engineer’s account.

"What he saw," said Bruce Afran, a New Jersey lawyer representing the plaintiffs along with Carl Mayer, "was decisive evidence that within two weeks of taking office, the Bush administration was planning a comprehensive effort of spying on Americans’ phone usage."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/16/washington/16nsa.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1&hp&oref=slogin

more at:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/12/15/164017/91/499/422567

[annabanana]

1. very very very disturbing...

We shall have to go to smoke signals and carrier pigeon...

[tblue37]

61. Disturbing, yet not even slightly surprising. n/t

[libodem]

2. Next they come by and kick in the doors.

oops kick in not on....

[Bongo Prophet]

3. On to the greatest...and worth noting "WITHIN 2 WKS OF TAKING OFFICE"

So when anyone says it was for the war on Terrah...

it was a war OF terror BY the BFEE.

4 sure.

[Vickers]

53. Bingo.

9/11 provided cover for their crimes.

[bonito]

4. I'll say this again SELECTIVE spying without OVERSIGHT

By whoever is in charge...

[originalpckelly]

5. Is 738-658-8466 still off the table?

[bear425]

6. Ok, I googled the number and I see your craigslist posting

at least I think it's yours. Can you explain? I just watched the DaVinci Code again tonight, so I'm not really into trying to solve anything cryptic. Please tell?

[originalpckelly]

7. Pick up a phone, and declare your independence.

It's on its face an obvious truth.

[bear425]

9. ok, gotcha. ;-) thanks. n/t

[MadMaddie]

51. Actually it would be the opposite right?

Cancel your cell service and possibly your land line.(although it may not be convenient)

The American public fuels the profit for these companies, maybe it's time for Americans to cut funding to these traitorous companies.

Maybe it the message to Americans was cell phones are a luxery not a critical life enhancing product...

If the corporations want to screw the public I say then it's fair game for the public to screw the corporations.

[TahitiNut]

13. Well, you know ...

... We all want to change the world. :shrug:

[rockybelt]

33. You got my curiosity up

so I called that number. Several times. Must have been too many people calling. All I get is "We're sorry, your call cannot be completed as dialed."

You've got to tell me. What is this number?

[originalpckelly]

34. On its face, you will know when you know.

[iamthebandfanman]

47. not much for riddles

or puzzles.

whats the big secret?

[deadmessengers]

48. It spells "Revolution"

Why the poster chose to post it in such a strange and arcane manner is far beyond my limited comprehension.

[iamthebandfanman]

49. ah i c

well im a dummy, the first thing i did was try to spell something... missed that completely. lol


from something witty and secrety you guys should check this out...
http://www.spynumbers.com/WBNY.html


the rodent revolution!

[kestrel91316]

8. They started spying on us WAAAAYYYYY before 9-11.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee, folks. It's not about terrorism. It never WAS about terrorism.

It's about the complete fascist takeover of America.

Is it time to remind these freaks of what happened to Mussolini?

[originalpckelly]

10. The tree of liberty is very thirsty these days.

[kestrel91316]

12. I'll tell you this. The s--t hits the fan, you'll see ME doin' some of that watering.

[Yavapai]

60. AMEN

[malaise]

20. 9/11 was unbelievable convenient

Truth will out. I hope I'm alive when all my doubts about that day are confirmed.

[EVDebs]

62. At least as far back as Jan 2001, maybe further back...NSA 'policy shift'

Greg Palast's book Best Democracy Money Can Buy and article Khan Job show this was at least as far back as Jan 2001

"An unnamed “top-level CIA operative” says there is a “major policy shift” at the National Security Agency at this time. Bin Laden could still be investigated, but agents could not look too closely at how he got his money. One specific CIA investigation hampered by this new policy is an investigation in Pakistani nuclear scientist A. Q. Khan and his Khan Laboratories. Khan is considered the “father” of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons capability. But since the funding for this nuclear program gets traced back to Saudi Arabia, restrictions are placed on the inquiry. "

Ptech and other investigations called off,

http://web.archive.org/web/20021220054102/http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/DailyNews/FBI_whistleblowers021219.html

[burythehatchet]

11. wow, maybe 9/11 wasn't just about fortunate timing for BushCo.

who would'f thought?

[rockybelt]

26. What else is on those torture tapes? nt

[truth2power]

30. Let me offer an analogy...

I remember way back when the Nixon tapes came out. I was reading a transcript, and Nixon kept referring to "the Cuban thing". He made reference to that numerous times. I thought, "The Cuban thing?" Then there was the 18 minute gap. The short version is that I've always thought it had something to do with the Kennedy assassination. They had to erase it. Better to be accused of obstruction of justice, or to have Americans think Rosemary Woods (Noxon's sec'y) was a moron, than to be looking at convictions for treason.

Same with the CIA tapes. Something on there about 9/11 that should NEVER come out. :evilfrown:

[rockybelt]

31. I agree

that SOMETHING is on those tapes that they never want to see the light of day. 9/11? Don't know, but something for sure.

[truth2power]

29. Heh heh...what I've been saying all along...

Ridicule and ad hominem don't work too well on me. I'll just keep sayin'.

The truth will out.

[Rex]

14. So...

[Arctic Dave]

15. who woulda guessed

It was pretty obvious from the get go that if you are using
the NSA for evesdropping it was waaaaaay beyond one or two
people. That would be like using an aircraft carrier to cross
a creek. If this is just the tip of the iceberg I would not be
suprised. When you have the most powerful listening/computing
equipment in the history of the world do you really think its
only confined to "a few bad guys".

[Truth2Tell]

16. So if Reid can just get immunity

for the Telco's then we won't have to be bothered with these disturbing revelations anymore. With no excuse for legal discovery, we can let it all fade from memory and stop worrying ourselves. After all, that's what leaders are for.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

17. Since this cabal considers EVERYONE except loyalists an enemy,...

,...this information should cause folks to shit their britches.

HELLO!!! The Bush Cabal were planning complete control as soon as they got in.

[deacon]

18. Damn, what they've done to this country...horrible. n/t

[RavensChick]

65. It's beyond horrible

Every time I look around, I wonder what has the world come to? I just pray for a better change when we take back the White House next year.

[flashl]

19. K&R n/t

[acmavm]

21. Well I suppose I could say yet once again that it is time that OUR REPS

stepped up to the plate and did their duty to us, the country, and the Constitution of the United States but I know that in the end we'll all be watching them sell us out any day now.

And I know that soon the apologist crowd will be along (as always) to tell us Harry and Nancy have a PLAN, or they're so OUTNUMBERED, or there is no TIME, and any of a half dozen usual whiney excuses for their collaboration with a party of outright traitors.

[truth2power]

28. Oh, Harry and Nancy have a plan all right...

but I don't think we're gonna like it.

As far as the apologists go, they have nothing to say to me. I saw Nancy's demeanor the other evening when she was being interviewed by Gwen Ifil. She (Nancy) was lying about things.

One of those authors of a book for people in abusive relationships, maybe Harriet Goldhohr Lerner IIRC, said to the (most often) women being abused, "See what you see and know what you know." Good advice, I'd say.

[paparush]

22. WITHIN TWO WEEKS OF TAKING OFFICE!!

Way before 9/11.

Big F#cking Suprise.

[OneGrassRoot]

35. I really thought MSM would be all over this one...

the fact that they used 9/11 to "justify" this, yet they had instituted it two weeks into office!!! Speaks volumes...unfuckingbelievable.

I don't even think Keith has covered this, or has he?

[nashville_brook]

37. (for emphasis) -->> WITHIN TWO WEEKS OF TAKING OFFICE!!!

holy freaking cow. does this not raise a whole slew of questions? shouldn't this throw a DIFFERENT light on other "mysteries" of the bush administration?

[Flying Dream Blues]

45. You mean such things as the supersecret energy talks w/ Ken Lay, Cheney, et al? also before 9/11...

[nashville_brook]

46. peacetime civilian spying: for what purpose? also -- how come it didn't help them stop 911?

[EVDebs]

63. 1994

is the first you hear of Ptech. Investigations were called off and NSA 'policy shifts' calling off investigations into Saudi funding of terror activities was shut down . Por que ?

http://web.archive.org/web/20021220054102/http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/DailyNews/FBI_whistleblowers021219.html

"In the mid-1990s, with growing terrorism in the Middle East, the two Chicago-based agents were assigned to track a connection to Chicago, a suspected terrorist cell that would later lead them to a link with Osama bin Laden. Wright says that when he pressed for authorization to open a criminal investigation into the money trail, his supervisor stopped him."

[nashville_brook]

67. the Octopus. Danny Casolaro. Inslaw.

http://www.totse.com/en/conspiracy/casolaro/index.html

[EVDebs]

68. 1973 and Nixon really and his DoD plans that got 'tweaked' into Iraq

Nixon's plans to seize Saudi oil fields 1973
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/01/02/MNG8G427D61.DTL

instead of Saudi Arabia. BTW, the article shows that the Brits already knew it would require at least a ten year occupation: "The British warned in their assessment that any occupation of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Abu Dhabi might have to last as long as 10 years. "

Just for laughs, get you and your friends together for 'movie night' and rent Three Days Of The Condor the Robt Redford/Faye Dunaway movie. Pay special attention to what Redford's 'CIA reader' character came across that starts the whole ball of yarn unravelling. You'll laugh you'll cry. This is from a 1975 movie btw.

[Morereason]

54. Two weeks would mean it was in planning BEFORE Bush came to office

I don't think the details could have been worked out and had employees and managers of Government and ATT discussing how to impliment in two weeks. Just saying...

[OzarkDem]

23. Like torture, spying on Americans is futile

Like torture, its more of a power-trip for the GOP masters that gives them their jollies, but probably doesn't produce much in the way of information.

What would they hear when they tap my phone? Telemarketers calling, my son talking to his friends about their favorite heavy metal bands, me asking my husband what he wants for dinner and if he could pick something up at the grocery store on the way home. Oh and don't forget the phone calls to make appointments for the doctor, dentist and vet.

Spying on Americans is an exercise in futility, it accomplishes nothing except indulging the egos of Bush and Cheney.

[greiner3]

24. I think you are missing the point;

As for me, I send emails back and forth to myself via separate email accounts. They contain some of the 7 words carnivore and its kind look for; terrorist, dirty bomb, Osama bin Laden, Al-Qaeda, dirty bomb, etc...

What if I were a Democratic political activist? Would I want my phone and email records monitored by bushco? What about a news reporter with a huge breaking story critical of the present administration? What if I were a law abiding citizen who treasures privacy?

[BearSquirrel2]

42. That's idiotic ...

Looking for words like that would only turn up casual discourse. The words and phrases you would want to look for are:

* Praise Alla
* Alla is great
* Western Imperialism
* Crusaders
* American Pigs
* Jihad
* Mullah
* Paradise
* Koran
* Muhommed

etc...

Not only are efforts like this NOT trying to find actual terrorists, they actively waste time and resources chasing phantoms.

[Autumn Colors]

39. How 'bout listening in on calls of Democrats in Congress

Listening in on your phone calls probably wasn't the idea. Listening in on the political rivals might (and probably did) net them enough things to blackmail quite a few people in Congress into .... oh, let's say repeatedly CAVE IN to GOP demands???

[peacetalksforall]

25. Cheney and Bush are experiencing a lot of failures = but huge wins from Democrats.

This one, also? Has anyone heard anything that makes sense to explain the Dems who are doing this? Who are the Dems who are against immunity?

Why is this so transparently wrong to the citizens and appearing to be a possible new win for Cheney-Bush? A win over our leaders!

I strongly believe Cheney-=Bush bought the coalition.
Are $$$$$ to Reid the answer here, also?

[rockybelt]

27. I don't think so

I think guilt and complicity are the answers.

[lonestarnot]

Oh wa wa fuckerrod "started feeling something isn't right." I'd like to slap the piss outta that

fucktard! AT&T you need to go!

[Beelzebud]

32. Such a shame that our "leadership" is going along with this Orwellian scheme.

[democrank]

36. Beam me up, Scotty.

I`ve had enough of this shit.

[MikeNearMcChord]

38. OH THE LAND OF THE FWEEE!!!!! AND THE HOME OF THE BWAAAAVVEE!!!

[jeff30997]

41. Hey this song sounds familiar.I think it begins like this:

Oh, say can Nazi...

[windoe]

40. UnAmerican and a waste of precious resources...

WHAT percentage of the millions of bits of data is actually useful? While our country is in such dire economic conditions, this waste of money is obscene.
We are being taxed without any representation.

[PassingFair]

43. In a related vein...

Here are some interesting links regarding Total Information Awareness (TIA) 'Memba Them?
Poindexter, anyone?

And DARPA....

http://www.epic.org/privacy/profiling/tia/

[Warren Stupidity]

44. Early 2001. BEFORE 9-11.

Think about that. If this is accurate the implications are wildly incriminating.

[dansolo]

55. And they still couldn't prevent 9-11 from happening.

Even if you want to shy away from conspiracy theories about using domestic spying for blackmail, it amazes me that no one is asking the obvious question. If the surveillance was in place before 9-11, why didn't it help to prevent the attacks? Why was the government caught completely by surprise? Doesn't that counter the whole justification for the monitoring in the first place?

[Warren Stupidity]

56. Actually it indicates that they were putting in place the

"emergency measures" justified by the administration by 9-11, long before 9-11 happened. How could that be? I don't care at all that (of course) warrantlesss eavesdropping didn't prevent 9-11. What really bothers me is that they were activating their plans well in advance of the justifying activity. They knew what was coming. That is the clear implication.

They let it happen or they made it happen. It is time to stop pretending otherwise.

[LuckyLib]

50. "We do not comment on matters of national security." Sound familiar?

Unhuh, AT&T is just another corporate toad in the BushCo cabal. They're getting their FCC ruling this next week, and they'll do what they need to consolidate media power.

[Raster]

52. Hmm, why would a government NOT ELECTED TWICE be so concerned about citizens phone calls?

It's not about National security, it's about cheney*/bush* security.

Wake up, America!:kick:

[Libface]

57. So, if people want to

tell AT&T to go F%$# themselves, what is the alternative? VoIP?

[1776Forever]

58. Question on the "list" that some of us surely are on -

Can someone tell me if they can find out if they have been "blacklisted" because of comments or emails, etc? I have been trying for a year now to get a job in Florida and I am well qualified. I had a job offered to me but it mysteriously was pulled out from under me and they won't tell me why. Also I have tried to file with the government over another issue and for some reason I am ignored. Does anyone else have stories like this? I don't think this is just about me. I had sent a letter in 2003 to ask for Rumsfeld resignation to the President and that may have started it. I have also been a big proponent against Blackwater and had written to John McCain before I realized he is just another puppet for Bush. He wrote back that he thought it was fine what Blackwater and other contractors, i.e. Halliburton, etc. were doing.

I just read that Dodd is going to filibuster tomorrow on the FISA bill. I hope everyone goes to his site and posts a reply.

Patriots we are for sure - None of our Forefathers would have condoned this behavior!

[EVDebs]

59. Wider Spying Fuels Aid Plan for Telecom Industry= Quid pro quo

Congress screws us all and gets paid for it. Whadda Country--Jacov Schmirnoff

Makes you wonder why Schmirnoff leff the old USSR in the first place; they're beginning to look so much alike.

[SeattleGirl]

64. Sam Seder is talking about this right now on his show. n/t

[Djinn]

66. Nope

Deep in your gut you hoped it hadn't got this bad, but knew different didn't you

I view it as more of the same frankly. For at least the last 70 years govts have been keeping an eye on subversive types - it's just that subversive now includes middle class housewives who've just come to activism and not just socialists and anarchists who've been watched for decades.

[lisainmilo]

69. I feel like I am living with the KGB

Unbelieveable, 2 WEEKS of taking office. This goes to show how VERY important this election is, don't be duped!

[Javaman]

70. My interrogation will be amusing. I'm curious as to how they react every time

I refer to moron* as moron*.

I'm currently reading Gulag Archipelago.

It can happen here.