This may seem uncompassionate but justice isn't about murder victim's families

[Hippo_Tron]

Justice is not about making victims and their loved ones feel better and it's not about making criminals suffer. Justice is about protecting all members of society, period.

I don't fault any victim's family for wanting the death penalty or even for wanting to do it themselves. But justice is supposed to protect the convicted from these emotions just as much as it is supposed to protect the rest of us by locking up murderers.

This is to a certain degree about the death penalty but it really goes beyond that for me. If we had no prisons, I'd probably support the death penalty for murderers since it would be necessary to keep the rest of society safe. But we do have prisons and plenty of them. The death penalty is part of this notion of "feel good justice" which I think is a perversion of justice. It isn't supposed to be about feelings.

Those disgusting prison shows are another example of this. They enforce the mentality that the people in prison are scum and that they should be made to suffer in prison because they are scum. This mentality is, in my opinion, the reason that we have such a high recidivism rate meaning that our system is largely a failure.

We should not be sending people to prison because they are scum and we shouldn't send them to prison to make them suffer. We should send them to prison because it is in society's best interest to remove them from society until they are rehabilitated.

Sorry if this rant is nonsensical

[CTLawGuy]

1. no way

it's an excellent rant!

Justice is a rational process, not an emotional one.

[roguevalley]

22. I agree. and we have to change their behavior somehow because

they are coming out some day

[Arkansas Granny]

2. Not nonsensical in the least. Very well put.

[yella_dawg]

3. When emotion and justice mix...

justice fails.

But when the prison system becomes a profit center, all rules are off. Lock 'em up!

[Glorfindel]

4. As Lester Maddox once observed

"What we need here in Georgia is a better class of prisoner." If they weren't scum, then they wouldn't WANT to go back to prison in the first place. :crazy:

Your rant isn't nonsensical; the system is nonsensical. Just as in American health care, so in American justice: One's ability to pay for it determines the outcome.

[me b zola]

5. You are making perfect sense

:thumbsup:

[Sanctified]

6. Violent Criminals should be kept in solitary confinement.

I oppose the death penalty however I do believe that the rest of the prison population that is doing time for non violent crimes should be protected from the animals.

[NoBorders]

8. I think they try to do that

but b/c we throw so many people in the slammer, there isn't enough room to segregate populations as much as they should.

[NoBorders]

7. 'Victims Rights' Groups

Are sort of a response by those who feel justice should be more revenge-oriented, IMHO. I think that in the Conservative mind, justice has more of this 'revenge' mentality behind it.

I agree with your post. Most people don't realize that about the criminal justice system. It's supposed to protect soceity, and insulate the convicted from from capriscious and arbitrary punishment.

[cali]

17. Wrong. Having spent 6 years

as the Victim's Advocate in a State's Attorney's office, I can tell you that that is NOT true. Most VA groups are about not excluding victims of violent crime from the system, and enabling their voices to be heard. That simple. And practically all states now have Victim Advocates within the State's Attorneys offices.

[NoBorders]

19. I accept your point of view

Since you're obviously the expert, but why or how is this a separate function from the prosecutor? Maybe I don't really understand the VA function.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

9. I agree

I feel sorry for the families of murder victims but I don't know what to say when I read something that they don't feel justice is done when the criminal is not executed. For example from the AP article:

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gYppYSKRwPNEaUjbxFuUGpS_iouQD8TK066G1

Marilyn Flax, whose husband was abducted and murdered in 1989, vowed to work against Corzine and the lawmakers who voted last week to abolish the death penalty.

"I will make sure my voice is used and they are not re-elected," she said.

(snip)

Megan's father, Richard Kanka, is still hopeful the men won't see old age. "The only thing we can really hope for is somebody in jail will knock off these guys," he said.

How would you respond to these people? I cannot denigrate the victim's families emotions while arguing against the death penalty.

[mikeytherat]

12. They don't want justice, they want revenge.

And after the guy had been executed, they would probably wonder why the pain hasn't gone and the emptiness is still there.

mikey_the_rat

[Tyler Durden]

14. I Pity them. They have allowed this to emotionally bankrupt them.

Are these people Christians? If so, my I suggest:

Rom.12
<19> Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
<20> Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
<21> Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

[Hippo_Tron]

15. Again, I can't fault them for that, they're acting on human nature

And honestly I'm not 100% sure I'd act any differently if someone I loved was murdered. They're reacting in a way that is perfectly natural. That is why in a civilized society we set up institutions to protect ourselves from human nature.

[sampsonblk]

10. K & R for justice, not revenge-nt

[Nevilledog]

11. I agree with ALMOST everything you wrote.

The prison system in this country is NOT about rehabilitation. It's about retribution and warehousing. Let me give you an actual example from Arizona (naming the state is important because there is no consistency is prison sentences or prison programming at the state level)....people sent to prison for sex offenses. If a person receives a 10 year sentence they are NOT eligible for sex offender counseling until they have approximately less than 2 years left of their sentence. So, you have a sex offender who has been in prison for over 8 years with no counseling. And the person is only ELIGIBLE for counseling, doesn't mean they'll get it. The programming available for inmates is a joke. There is no interest in rehabilitation.

[redqueen]

13. This country's warped mindset about "justice" has created professional criminals.

Prisons are their schools now...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. K&R I agree completely.

[Hydra]

18. It's unfortunate, but there is no "justice"

Laws are selectively enforced, police corruption is rampant, prisons have become sweatshops and ant farms for psychological conditioning, people as usual scream for blood and pain in the name of "justice"...

Is pointed out by many philosophies, laws are created by people...mostly for their own gain. As such, the base concept of "justice" as an impartial process is an illusion.

Still, I like you post, because I would prefer people call it what it is. People often hide behind things like "justice," "faith" and "patriotism" while pursuing the most vile evil imaginable.

[malaise]

20. Great post

Sadly old testament vengeance has taken over.

[DutchLiberal]

21. Best. 'Rant'. Ever. Recommended!

It saddens me to read how many 'leftists' are strong advocates of state-killing (death penalty). x(