1987 Honda Civic CRX was estimated to get 57 mpg

[liberal N proud]

People keep saying it is not possible for the car makers to produce a car that gets 60/70 mpg.
Twenty years ago Honda produced a 57 mpg automobile.

Today, the highest rating is for a hybrid at 46.

The CRX HF got an Environmental Protection Agency-estimated 57 mpg gallon in highway driving. Today, the most fuel-efficient non-hybrid Civic you can buy gets an EPA-estimated 34 mpg on the highway. Even today's Honda Civic Hybrid can't match it, achieving EPA-estimated highway mileage of just 45 mpg. The Toyota Prius, today's fuel mileage champ, gets 46 mpg on the highway

http://money.cnn.com/2007/12/17/autos/honda_civic_hf/index.htm?section=money_autos


Now why in the hell are we not demanding that these companies produce vehicles with this or better ratings? We would rather sit back pump our Hummers full of fossil fuel and let our government tell states they can't have stricter regulations than the rest of the country.

These companies today could probably turn out SUV's that got 60 mpg and sedans that got 100 mpg. But they are not going to do that as long as we sit by and believe the bullshit media telling us that it can't be done.

rant off

[dkf]

1. I think they revised the MPG calculation

to be more realistic. They all went down I believe.

[Gman]

6. I believe they basicly put the car on a type of treadmill

and ran it in some warehouse or room. There was no wind resistance, uphill, downhill, stop and go, etc. The mpg ratings were essentially based on a flat road with no hills or wind resistance.

[TwilightZone]

2. The calculations have changed in the past year.

Ratings for '08 vs '07 models of the same vehicle are significantly lower in many cases, so current ratings and past ones aren't really compatible.

That doesn't change your underlying assertion, of course, which I agree with in full.

[brmdp3123]

3. I had a 1987 Honda Civic CRX

It never got even 37 MPG.

[NickB79]

4. To be fair, those aren't comparable to any Civics produced today

A classmate of mine had one in the 90's in high school. I remember it well: no backseat. It was a strictly 2-seater, except for stupid high schoolers who piled into the hatchback area with no seatbelts and pillows for seats. Definitely not a car for someone with a family.

Basically, if you cut a modern Civic in half, you'd have a CRX. Their crash safety, compared to a modern Civic, is also questionable.

Hmmm, now that I think about it, it seems like the new Mercedes SmartCar is just a spin-off of the CRX!

[TwilightZone]

5. Good point re: safety.

Today's cars are significantly heavier, because items like side-impact beams, air bags, etc., have been mandated.

Cars are getting larger, as well, in part to make them safer. The current Civic is larger and heavier than the original Accord.

[Warpy]

7. My Korean econobox

recently did a 300 mile trip on just under 7 gallons of gas. I found that impressive since it's a 4 door hatchback, not the smallest thing on the road. I wasn't just impressed, I was astonished.

46 MPG in a Prius doesn't look all that impressive to me now, especially since my second car is an electric moped.

[Stuart G]

8. About miles per gallon..and about profit per car.

If by some stroke of the wand, the highest miles per gallon cars, automatically became the highest profit per car seller, then I believe that magically, the car companies...all of them.. would be in some race to produce higher miles per gallon cars.
......No mandates, no federal legislation, no advertising at all...Just that one fact.

..In ten years, if that were somehow the key element, and as the mpg went up, so did the profit per car, you would see 75 mpg as an
average, or more ....but it isn't going to happen that way. The car with the most profit per car, are the larger SUVs,,
.......this is what makes them the most money..period. end of discussion.

[liberal N proud]

9. I contend that if the car companies produced a 75 mpg car it would

become the highest selling vehicle. More cars sold would compute to more profit for the company.
But there is more to this story I feel.
I think the oil companies are in collusion with the automakers or the lobbiest at least have made producing an efficient vehicle worth the research investment.

[TwilightZone]

14. I'm not sure that I would agree. Car-buying for many, many people is emotional, not logical.

There are vehicles available right now that get great gas mileage - the VW Jetta diesel, for example, gets around 50mpg on the highway for many real-world drivers - but even with increasing gas prices, their sales aren't all that impressive.

The two top-selling vehicles in the U.S. are pickups. Most of the rest of the top ten are mid-sized sedans. So, unless companies can offer great mileage in combination with the other factors consumers look for, including the emotional ones, I don't see a mass shift to high-mileage vehicles happening in the near future.

[Paulie]

10. Bah, it's also comparing just the highway mileage

When a gas only car runs at it's most optimal, which is NOT where most cars are run 100% of the time.

Or to take it the reverse, my Prius gets 50-60mpg in CITY driving. What did the old Honda get with it's manual transmission, except a sore leg in bumper to bumper traffic? :D :D :D

[TwilightZone]

15. 49 mpg city, based on the old calculations.

The CRX HF was a remarkably efficient vehicle. It was also *really* slow (friend of mine had one).

[Paulie]

18. Thanks.

It was also tiny as well. Size does made a difference. :)

[TwilightZone]

20. It was definitely tiny.

It was basically a commuter or weekend car. Definitely not a car for the long trips that the great mileage might encourage.

[RiverStone]

28. My commuter car is a 1991 HF CRX...

Yep, the HF is the model to get to save gas. Last time I did the mileage, I was getting 44 mpg. I sold my pick-up and bought this little go-cart to be more eco-friendly and save $$$. With only a 62 HP engine, it does not have much power - though the engine is very efficient (multi-point injection 8 cylinder) and it's easy to hit 80 mph if I want - though why go fast??? The car is VERY light and only a 2 seater; it offers little protection in an accident - but at least a tad more then a motorcycle.

On balance, if your basically using it to commute and not haul kids around, I think it's a fantastic gas saver --- and I only paid $1,200 for it.

[TreasonousBastard]

11. Why not just shut up and BUY the most fuel efficient cars..

and trucks out there? They make 'em, but where are the lines backed up to buy 'em? Nissan Sentra? Ford Focus? I see two new Ford pickups for every econobox around here. I Gotta say, though, Minis are really hot lately. One of the the biggest sellers in this part of the county. But, they'e not just econoboxes-- they're super sexy.

Anyway, it took Toyota how many years to sell a hundred thousand Priuses? In a country that buys 14 million cars a year.

Talk is cheap-- wallets are what they listen to, and the Great Green Toyota is making money hand over asshole with their SUVs, large pickups, and Lexus. Nobody's holding a gun to anyone's head when they walk into a dealership, but people are actually drooling ove big gas hogs, and buying them.

Blame your neighbor, or yourself, for the Land Cruiser or Doolie sitting in the driveway, not the companies that make them.

[Deja Q]

12. It also crumpled like a beer can. And given the way people "drive" today,

I'd rather have a vehicle with a heavier, sturdier steel frame to aluminum.

[enlightenment]

13. I don't understand why the companies can produce cars

for the European market that get higher mpg than the identical car in the US market.

For instance:
In the UK, the average combined mpg for a 2006 Volkswagen Beetle is 29.08 US gallons (34.8 Imperial)
In the US, the average combined mpg for a 2006 Volkswagen Beetle is 24 US gallons (28.8 Imperial)

Is it road conditions? Weather? The type of rubber they use in the tires?


I'm confused.

[Alexander]

16. My 2002 Toyota Echo gets 35-40 mpg, and it's not a hybrid.

Cheap as hell, too. The car only cost $13,000 new.

Since I live in Phoenix, it has the added bonus of looking so shitty and cheap that nobody wants to break into it, even though I frequently have expensive musical equipment somewhere in the car.

[tabasco]

38. I get even better with my Echo.

I drive like Grandma Moses. In fact, Grandma Moses passed me the other day.

I went 300 miles to an airport and back on six gallons. It was mostly interstate.

I really like my 2000 Echo. Well built and always starts.

Put some weight in the trunk and it does okay in the snow.

You can't find a used Echo anymore. They got very popular when the gas prices went up.

They do better on gas than the Yaris.

[JanMichael]

17. What's even nuttier is that the Mercedes 240D got 37mph/hwy.

Beginning in 1974 through 1984 (or 83).

Yes they are slowish but so what? They still look good and run great after 30 years AND can be easily turned into a veggie car.

[stevedeshazer]

26. You bet.

Those older diesel cars are cool, and the engines last forever.

The only thing they really lack is airbags.

[focusfan]

19. Ford Focus Diesel 59 M.P.G. sold in Europe

[B Calm]

25. damn.. why don't they sell that here?

[focusfan]

32. Don`t know,maybe it`s political

Europe and Australia have way better vehicles than we do and the really sad part is that they are built by Ford and General Motors.
They both build very good and economical direct injection turbo charged diesels.I hear that they are not clean enough for the U.S.
I think that even if they were a little dirtier than gas the fuel savings would still be a huge benifit after all less fuel means less carbon.

[stevedeshazer]

27. See #23

Agree.

[NV Whino]

21. I had an '89 Honda Prelude

that consistently got 40 MPG. Then they started loading cars down with smog equipment and the MPG went down. I now drive a (non-hybrid) Honda Fit that gets 33 to 38. (I actually go 40 PMG on a recent trip.)

[madrchsod]

22. i had a 87 dx that got around 40 mpg at 75 miles mph

and 30-35 around town. the average for the hf was 45-50 depending on driving speeds and 35 in town. my 87 is sitting in my yard waiting for spring to be finished. i had a geo metro that got around 35-40 mpg but the crx is a much better ride

[stevedeshazer]

23. You touched a nerve.

First, I agree with you.

Second, the EPA ratings were complete BS.

Third, there's no sane reason to not raise fuel economy standards. Unless you are an oil company executive.

Fourth, cars such as what you describe in your OP already exist.

They sell these French-made beauties in the UK:



The diesel version gets 52 mpg and costs around €12,000, so around $20,000.

http://www.renault.co.uk/Productpage_home.aspx?mm=meganehatch

We're insane to not raise efficiency standards for *everything*.

BTW, I still occasionally drive my '85 Accord. It's in semi-retirement but gets 33 mpg no matter what hell I put it through.

[B Calm]

29. That's a pretty cool looking Renault..

The last Renault I drove in caught on fire, seriously! but that was in the early 60s..

[zalinda]

30. I had a 71 Renault 16

Best car ever!!!!!!!!!! It got 35mpg, and it was huge. Four door hatchback, that you could take the back seat out of (or you could flip the back rest up and fold the seat toward the front seat). We moved just about everything we had in the car, it was like a small mini-van. And the seats were comfortable, you could sit in the for hours, with out a back ache. I loved that car, and kept wishing they would make another one like it. Ugly as sin, but totally loved our red one. Here's a junk yard pic that I found.

[liberal N proud]

31. I was hoping to touch a much bigger never.

Fuel standards in this country are a joke.
As far as the Renault, very sharp car. My only issue would be comfort, I have to put 15 - 20 thousand miles on a car per year, many trips lasting 12 hours at a time multiple days. I drive cross country 4/5 times per year.
I need to have a car that is comfortable traveling that far. I currently drive a large sedan 2001 model that if I watch my driving, I can get 28 mpg. Not bad considering the standards in this country but I know it could be much better and should be.




Thanks for the link to the Renault site, My father-in-law loves European cars and would love to get his hands on one of those. I forwarded the link to him.

[and-justice-for-all]

35. The Megane Coupe-Cabriolet is HOT!

http://www.renault.co.uk/Cars_Information.aspx?mm=meganecoupe-cabriolet&page=overview

[DiverDave]

24. I HAVE a CRX now.

Yes the HF model DID and still does get that sort of mileage.

I have an SI and had a Dx version.
The Dx got 46 mpg on a trip to Milwaukee one time.
I have done a motor swap (more horsepower) on my current car and STILL get 30-33 MPG (combined city\hwy driving).


Google CRX and check out the fan sites...then tell me it's a LIE.

[sandnsea]

33. I drove a Mazda, I think

that got in the 40's. Well my neon gets in the 40's too. But most cars don't. They decided to push deisel instead. And then pretend the government doesn't have any affect on the economy.

[and-justice-for-all]

34. When I see car commercials that boast about 26mpg...

it makes me want to scream, it so pisses me off. 26mpg?! are you fucking kidding me?!! total bullshit and it burns my ass to see that. There is no reason why the new civics (which I almost bought) do not come as EV as well as combustible. WE ALL KNOW damn well that they have made EVs before and they wure as shit can do it now, specially now.

Yes, the auto and oil industry are in bed together. The more fuel used the more money the petrol industry makes and the the very tool used to do this is autos.

[MindMatter]

36. Americans can't squeeze their fat asses into that CRX today

Sad but true. We have become a nation of fatasses, and that is a big part of why our cars are less efficient.

[MindMatter]

37. And what if you aren't morbidly obese?

Well that makes you quite the exception, and the car companies can't afford to build a product for such a small niche: people who aren't morbidly obese.