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Mandates are Political Suicide in '08? That's why Obama's health plan is better

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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 01:28 PM
Original message
Mandates are Political Suicide in '08? That's why Obama's health plan is better
Edited on Wed Dec-26-07 01:29 PM by Dems Will Win
Why are mandates for health insurance coverage such a big issue at this point in the campaign? It's the biggest difference in health policy between the top 3 candidates.

Yet despite these differences, most experts agree that the plans are similar in their most striking elements. Both Clinton and Obama advocate creating a new federal group insurance program. Anyone happy with their current health insurance could keep it. Otherwise, they could join the national insurance pool, which, the candidates like to point out, offers the same benefits that members of Congress enjoy. Edwards has a similar national public insurance plan, but would also create regional pools of private insurance companies, increasing the number of choices available.

Seddon Savage, president of the New Hampshire Medical Society, noted that all three plans believe health care should be part of the "social contract of society." All three emphasize cost controls and cost savings, and focus on disease prevention.

"The details of the programs have some minor and some significant differences, but what all the plans are trying to do is set a direction, set basic principles," she said. "I suspect if any one of these candidates is elected, we'll have a commitment to addressing these issues. We'll have a national dialogue, and details may change."

John Thyng, campaign director for the advocacy group New Hampshire for Health Care, said with the exception of the mandate, the three plans are virtually the same.

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071226/FRONTPAGE/712260310



Robert Reich and others state that mandates will not ensure universal coverage, that at least 15% will still be uninsured becasue they cannot afford it.

in my view Obama’s would insure more people, not fewer, than HRC’s. That’s because Obama’s puts more money up front and contains sufficient subsidies to insure everyone who’s likely to need help – including all children and young adults up to 25 years old. Hers requires that everyone insure themselves.

Yet we know from experience with mandated auto insurance – and we’re learning from what’s happening in Massachusetts where health insurance is now being mandated – that mandates still leave out a lot of people at the lower end who can’t afford to insure themselves even when they’re required to do so.


HRC doesn’t indicate how she’d enforce her mandate, and I can’t find enough money in HRC’s plan to help all those who won’t be able to afford to buy it.

I’m also impressed by the up-front investments in information technology in O’s plan, and the reinsurance mechanism for coping with the costs of catastrophic illness. HRC is far less specific on both counts. In short: They’re both advances, but O’s is the better of the two. HRC has no grounds for alleging that O’s would leave out 15 million people."


So all three will leave millions uninsured.

The big difference is mandates and polls are showing Clinton's and Edwards' mandates to be political suicide. The Republicans will use mandates like a club and could even defeat the Democrat with that as one of their top issues. Why give them that club?


One aspect of the healthcare debate that has divided Democratic candidates is whether individuals should be required to purchase coverage - Clinton and Edwards favor a mandate, while Obama does not. A slight majority of Democratic voters who were polled - including pluralities of Clinton and Edwards supporters - opposed such a requirement
.

Opposition to the notion of an individual health insurance mandate -- "should individuals be required to buy health insurance" -- is greatest among the less well-educated and downscale voters that are the core of Clinton's base in New Hampshire and elsewhere.

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_stump/archive/2007/12/23/obama-and-the-working-class.aspx


Obama, because his plan includes no mandates but insures just as many people, does not hand the Republicans that club on a silver platter.

The problem is that mandates will mean if you are uninsured and are stopped for a traffic ticket or have an overdue library book you will be signed up and maybe penalized for not having signed up sooner. Americans are just not going to go for what John Edwards is planning here:


"I'm mandating healthcare for every man woman and child in America and that's the only way to have real universal healthcare."

"Everytime you go into contact with the healthcare system or the govenment you will be signed up."

During a press avail following the event Edwards reiterated his mandate:

"Basically every time they come into contact with either the healthcare system or the government, whether it's payment of taxes, school, going to the library, whatever it is they will be signed up."

When asked by a reporter if an individual decided they didn't want healthcare Edwards quickly responded, "You don't get that choice."


http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/11/edwards-weighs.html


Here is a comparison of all three candidates in an easy to read chart:

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/bluchart1.pdf

This thread has one question: Are Mandates in a Democratic Health Insurance plan handing the Republicans a club to pound us with all over the purple states? The question is not whether mandates are a good idea or even necessary. Maybe they are, maybe they are not.

The question is whether mandates are so unpopular that they would be political suicide in '08.

And yes, we all agree in DU that Single-Payer is the way to go, that's not what this thread is about.

What we are discussing here is whether Edwards and Clinton's mandates are a political mistake and would be exploited to the hilt by the bad guys.
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. His plan is NO better.
They both suck the big one. To decry that his is less shitty is comical.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. It IS less shitty, in fact it's so less shitty Obama could actually win, become President
Edited on Wed Dec-26-07 01:36 PM by Dems Will Win
and then pass a healthcare bill that will be far less shitty than the one Rudolph Hitler has proposed...
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. So, the best you got is BHO is LESS SHITTY?
Wow..you've convinced me. I always like to go for the lesser of two shits.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. My advice is choose the candidate who has not shot themselves in the ass
before they even leave the gate.

They run better that way...
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Better to have them shoot themselves in the ass next year?
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. I completely agree. Mandates are handing the GOP a club to beat us with. nt
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. Mandates are a bad idea
As it has been pointed out above.
1. They WILL NOT ensure that everyone is covered, like the proponents are claiming.
2. They are the ONLY reform that we can be sure is going to be passed, because it forces people to buy an insurance plan and that is a huge handout to the insurance companies.
3. People DO NOT like it when the government forces them to spend their money, especially when it something as expensive and unreliable as private healthcare.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
8. Will Obama's work like Cheney's Energy Task Force?
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Actually, no. He said all summits and meetings would be open and
WEBCAST. It's in his technology plan.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Open is good.
What do you think the health insurance companies are willing to give up in terms of their positions?
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old guy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Ahh....nothing?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. That's how I kinda see it.
Without any real threat.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. Obama said the meetings will be open, implying that the health insurance
companies will be on the defensive and not be able to get much.

Remember this is after the Obama Revolution. Plus the media will give it the old college try to scare people about socialized medicine.

I really think Obama is running to the center but will finagle the for-profit industry out of the market by making it too onerous to stay in and offering to expand the Fed Employee plan and Medicare to include everyone. At least I hope this happens. What we really need is Single Payer we all agree.

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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Yep. The debate will be public, and all sides will be responsible for their own positions
Which means the health insurance companies will be exposed, and on record, defending their horrible practices.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Along with the corporate media, both radio and TV
pushing the insurance company positions about what people should fear from their perspective for any alternatives.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
13. Obama's health plan is not better, and none of the top 3 are good enough.
With HR 676 on the table, I don't know why Democrats can't stop pretending like the "top 3" plans are somehow worthy of more than the compost heap.

Support Obama, or whoever, because of what he or she offers that IS better. Don't try to take a weakness and pretend it's a strength.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
14. Thanks for the pdf from Huffington post.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I was actually thinking of you when I found it - I thought mmonk will
appreciate this. Really. Glad you do.

(it makes it easy)
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old guy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
15. Mandates are deal killers IMO.
Also I keep seeing and reading about "affordable" premiums. How much is that and who decides what is affordable? I also see that you will "save" 2 grand a year. The savings and /or tax credits are not relevant if you can't afford the cost in the first place.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. There has to be an income component.
Edited on Wed Dec-26-07 02:30 PM by mmonk
Also, all including single payer will be called deal killers. The problem is we allow them to be.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. I think the political strategy here is run against the war, run to the center on some things
then when you get in, you say it's a mandate for change and push through real change through a Dem Congress.

If you go all out in the general with Single Payer or mandates for insurance it's a bridge too far, you're giving the Rethugs a club to pound us with. We don't need to go there again.

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old guy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Agreed there must be some means testing,
my concern is who decides what the levels are? How much input are the insurance companies going to have on this? I cannot believe they will they will simply give in.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. They will backpedal so fast with Obama jawboning them
He'll just threaten to go to Single Payer if they don't behave. It will be the Obama Revolution I believe.

There is no reason for him to stay with the for-profit boys as he received nothing from them, unlike Hillary's $800,000 from the healthcare industry.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. kick
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
25. kick
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