Re: Bhutto's assassination. Any chance of putting away the tinfoil until more is known? No?

[Buzz Clik]

Oh, well.

:shrug:

[meegbear]

1. How do we know the tsumani machine wasn't involved?

My hat stays on, thank you.

[Buzz Clik]

7. I should have stated that the tsunami machine is always exempt. Carry on.

[Marrah_G]

2. This is DU

Of course not!!!! We love our Tin Foil....it's not just for hats anymore.

:rofl:

[NNN0LHI]

3. You are right

I am sure this was nothing more than a run of the mill assassination. Happens all the time.

Yup.

Don

[Murdock]

4. It's a shocking event..

It's only natural that while we brainstorm and cope with such a senseless and tragic moment that we'll go through various theories.. We really don't know who or what was behind it and it's very scary...

[rodeodance]

5. For a while at least.

[Xipe Totec]

6. Yea, because a political assassination is not the time to think of conspiracies

She probably just spontaneously exploded.

[Buzz Clik]

9. Is that your interpretation of my intent, or are you simpy being an ass?

[Xipe Totec]

12. Just being an ass

:evilgrin:

[babylonsister]

11. Ooh...

in this time of sadness, I must say, 'good one, Xipe Totec!' :thumbsup:

[Marrah_G]

15. She had many many enemies

Pakistan in turmoil and possible civil war is in no way "Good for America" or "good for Bushco"

Civil war with Nuclear weapons in play, Religious extremists with Nuclear weapons in play....the whole world loses. The whole world.

[Xipe Totec]

27. Obviously somebody thought otherwise

Bad for America? Yes.

Bad for Bushco? Yes.

But there are other players in the world stage, and one in particular has been doing a lot of saber rattling lately.

One that probably feels turnabout is fair play, after being kicked out of Afghanistan with US help a while back.

[Buzz Clik]

29. Exactly. Will Pitt stated this in an earlier post.

It's quite frightening, actually.

[Marrah_G]

34. it is

I have to say, I am generally a pretty reasonable and logical non dramatic person, but this has me truly scared. This could start a domino effect that could drastically change the world and humanity.

[tom_paine]

74. Maybe so and maybe no. I see many advantages forthe Bushies to kill

the Pakistani version of JFK (even more so, she was a woman in a Muslim Nation, not just a cathlic in a White Christian Nation, still remarkable because all our Presidents before and since have been WASPs.

And I will reprint from below my nine reasons this is a JACKPOT of synergistic benefits for the Bushies, so long as Busharraf can ride out the short-term storm, which he will. He's a Bushie, after all and he has the ISI on his side and no more ruthless fuckers exist on the planet outside the other Bushie Secret Polices and Bushie CIAs of the world.

Yeah, short-term is going to be a little hinkey, but once the intial storm is ridden out, the long-term benefits to the Bushies are ASTRONOMICAL!

1) Bhutto was a Liberal.

2) Bhutto was a unifying opposition leaders, like JFK, RFK and MLK.

3) Bhutto was in the process of standing up against Busharraf's Election Fraud.

4) Musharraf is a known quantity, a dictator who has the Bushie Art of Plausible Deniability.

5) The Bushies have kicked billions of dollars to Busharraf, he is theirs, bought and paid for.

6) Bhutto might actually have gone after Bin Laden, who is resting comfortably with the help of his Bushie Pals in the Pakistani ISI (their CIA).

7) Bhutto might have reigned in and gone after the corrupt elements of the ISI, just as Kennedy threatened to do with the CIA, before he, too, was killed by a "lone assassin".

8) This squirts "fear and terrorism" juices into the mind of every unaware Imperial Subjects of Amerika, which is to say 97-99.9% of us, bypassing the conscious mind and clouding reason.

9) In a stunning three-for-one Bushie Victory, they not only got rid of the Pakistani JFK (the first woman ever to lead a Muslim Nation, maybe even more remarkable than JFK in that regard) AND the Liberal Coalition, but like the murdered Pat Tillman, they get to wave her bloody corpse around to futher their aims, which are the opposite of Bhutto's.

[WilliamPitt]

8. Define "tinfoil."

Is it "tinfoil" to see this as an incredibly dangerous turn of events?

Or are we talking about Cheney Death Ray theories and the like?

[Buzz Clik]

16. Fair question.

Under the current set of circumstances, absolutely everything is possible. It's possible that this is simple in-fighting in Pakistan. It's possible that Musharraf was directly responsible. It's possible this could be al Qaeda or some other group. It's possible the US had a hand in it. They're all possible, but very few are likely.

I'm simply requesting that we take a step back from the hysteria in which US Special Ops, George Bush, and Richard Cheney are directly blamed for this.

Considering the incredible importance of what just happened and the long-term implications, avoiding the typical DU clutter would be a welcome change.

[Marrah_G]

22. I believe they are referring to the theory that...

All the world is good and just and anything bad that happens anywhere must be caused by Bush. Because without our current administration the word would be a Utopia.

Frankly, her death scares the crap out of me. I fear for the world. However, I am a realist and there are so many people who wanted her dead for so many different reasons that I cannot pin this one on our own government directly.

[Buzz Clik]

25. Thank you. You said that very clearly and captured my every intent.

:thumbsup:

[blondeatlast]

30. Precisely, but many are just becoming familiar with the unrest in the region now.

And BushCo is convenient and known. :shrug:

[peekaloo]

10. My hat reflects the festive holiday lights so I'm keepin' it.

;-)

[book_worm]

13. On DU? you're kidding, right?

[H2O Man]

14. Probably just

a lone assassin.

[Buzz Clik]

18. Well, we know that isn't it. The suicide bomber died in an explosion, but she was shot.

What a friggin' mess.

[H2O Man]

32. A mess, indeed.

Certainly terrible for that country, and that region of the world, but it creates increased dangers for the world. There is no worse time to have people like Bush, Cheney and Rice in office. They lack the capacity to provide any stabilizing influence.

[Buzz Clik]

50. mega dittos, my aqueous friend.

[H2O Man]

53. The more I watch

the reports on tv, the worse this seems. It may or may not spark a violent explosion in the near future; it will certainly add to the hatred and violence that makes the region so unstable. Unreal.

[Skidmore]

20. Lone assassins have a way of creating chaos, don't they.

The "War to End All Wars" started with a lone assassin.

[Buzz Clik]

51. It's pretty clear this assassin was not working alone.

[gatorboy]

21. I'm leaning towards a magic bullet

That conveniently took out other members of her family on the same day.

[Beetwasher]

23. She Choked On A Chicken Bone

Nothing to see here. Just believe whatever Bushco. tells you to believe about this event.

[Junkdrawer]

46. Now they're saying the bomber was the shooter....

So it looks like you called this one...

How long before the photos of the bomber with the gun and a recent newspaper? :shrug:

[Beetwasher]

17. Umm, What Constitutes "Tin Foil" In This Instance? Anything That's Not YOUR Pet Theory?

Obviously there WAS a conspiracy to assassinate her, the mass of details are unknown this time. I assume you're just going to believe what you see on TV about it?

[Buzz Clik]

24. I have no pet theory nor do I discount any theories right now.

However, stepping up in the first 15 minutes and stating flatly that US Special OPs were involved or blaming Bush for this is, unfortunately, typical at DU. We're too often too quick on these things, and we end up looking like idiots.

[Beetwasher]

26. "...and we end up looking like idiots. "

Heh. "we"? Maybe some people do, but "we" don't.

Thanks for your concern though! It's sweet. Really.

[Buzz Clik]

31. You forgot your :sarcasm:, but you didn't need it.

And for the record, if you post here, then you become associated with the collective direction of the board.

I find nothing wrong with asking people to step back and inject a level of sanity into their comments. Of course, I cannot control that, nor can I avoid being criticized for my request. Right?

[Beetwasher]

47. Because An Idiot In Any Community

Necessesarly makes the whole community look like idiots? :shrug:

"And for the record, if you post here, then you become associated with the collective direction of the board."

For the record, that's bullshit. Who defines or decided what the "collective direction of the board" is. You? :eyes:

"I find nothing wrong with asking people to step back and inject a level of sanity into their comments. Of course, I cannot control that, nor can I avoid being criticized for my request. Right?"

Who said anything was wrong w/ it? Not me. As I did say, thanks for your concern, it's very sweet. Really.

Oh, I've got your sarcasm...right here.

[Buzz Clik]

52. If we had a single "idiot" running around projecting silly theories, then I'd agree. We do not.

It's a horde.

As for your sarcasm, I'll let you keep it. Anyway, it's the thought that counts.

[Beetwasher]

66. A Horde?

Really?

And it's up to you get them under control so "we" don't look bad! :rofl:

You're providing such a great service! What would we possibly do w/out you?

[treestar]

58. Suggesting it is not the same thing as believing it immediately

Naturally the issue will come up. It doesn't mean we have the answers. A person can raise an issue without having the answer.

You debate right wingers, and they try to take a stand as if that is not so - but that is letting them set the terms of the debate. It is not true that you have to be able to prove a theory to even bring it up.

[LanternWaste]

56. I think in this case...

I think in this case, tin-foil is constituted by the old tried-and-true 'post-hoc ergo prompter hoc' in an attempt to validate a theory with no supporting evidence...

Isn't that what tin-foil is all about...?

[Beetwasher]

67. "Isn't that what tin-foil is all about...?"

Oh, I dunno. The term "tin foil" is bantered about so much it has essentially become a meaningless perjorative slung at people who's theories and speculation about events are different than your own.

[earth mom]

19. Yeah, let's wait for the propaganda to become full blown. Like calling it a terrorist attack

instead of an assassination as already seen here on DU this morning. :eyes:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2536360

[Buzz Clik]

28. It fits the definition of terrorism, but we all know it goes much farther than that.

[K Gardner]

45. MSM is already calling it a "terrorist" attack. US Intel blaming AlQaeda.

Its just the next ramp up. God help us all.

[Buzz Clik]

54. They eventually started calling all aspects of the Iraqi insurgency "al Qaeda." Meh.

[blondeatlast]

33. Okay to call it an assassination? I understand what you are saying,but the MSM

is still trying to call it terrorism and I think THEY look like idiots when they do. :shrug:

[Missy M]

38. If assassinating someone isn't an act of terrorism....

than I don't know what is.

[Jacobin]

35. There have been something like 11 attempts on Mushareff

The political wings in Pakistan are radicalized, with a substantial moderate majority.

The list of assassinations is long, not the least of which was Gandhi.

I think as awful as this killing is, that the gloom and doom predictions are overblown. This will likely result in reinforcing Mushareff's rule, which will continue the repression of radicalism which is probably helpful, short term anyway, in terms of stability in the region.

At least, that's one way it could play out.

But to answer your question, this is DU and so sillytheories/blamegames/overblownconsequences, etc. will rule.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

36. She was no saint but she may have been th ebest hope for

Democracy in Pakistan

[KG]

37. until more is known?

as if you'll be told the truth?

[Buzz Clik]

57. Well ... good point.

After all, with all we know about JFK, 9/11, etc, we still have people shooting jello molds with darts and others building WTC mock-ups out of concrete and chickenwire.

[newportdadde]

39. I heard her brothers were also killed, is that true?

[EFerrari]

41. Yes but not today. n/t

[ck4829]

40. Trying to make this not sound like tinfoil because it is a serious question

What are the chances that the people who organized and gave their blessing to this attack were the same people who were behind the 9/11 attacks?

[Buzz Clik]

49. Sounds possible, depending upon who you feel that might be.

[EstimatedProphet]

42. Come on, you should know better than that

Everything is a conspiracy here.

[Buzz Clik]

60. I have this sneaky hunch that your post is part of a plan to defame me.

"Tinfoil hat, my arse!"

[EstimatedProphet]

68. You're right.

But now you know too much. You've figured it out - everything is a plan to keep you, BuzzClik, from figuring out The Truth.

[old guy]

43. There will be many, many reports on who did this.

Unfortunately, we will probably never know for sure which one is the correct one. It is just a damn shame things like this happen at all, anywhere.

[madrchsod]

44. it was no big surprise she was hit

the criminals that run pakistan did`t want her back sharing the spoils so they killed her. somewhere in an office at the cia there was a pool on when she was going to die.

[Bandit]

48. There is a very good chance it was because Brittney's little sister is pregnant.

I think in fact it is almost a given. :shrug:

[treestar]

55. No, any political assassination will bring it up

It could be a lone nut, but when it's a political leader, it could also have a political motive.

[alcibiades_mystery]

59. A simple rule in life: Don't disturb the fun of children or idiots

When they are playing quietly amongst themselves, they are less likely to harm the real work being done by the grown-ups. Conclusion: Let the tinfoilers play their parlor games. They are essentially harmless, and at least it keeps them away from real business.

[Buzz Clik]

63. Excellent point.

But can't we have them play in the play room?

[malaise]

61. The real tin foil will be delivered by Bush

in a few minutes.

[Buzz Clik]

64. No shit. We can start by assuming everything he says is a lie.

[shadowknows69]

62. You assume that we'll be told the whole truth at all?

I can't suspend my disbelief that long anymore.

[tom_paine]

65. Any chance of putting the gullible deniability away until the Bushies come out and announce their

criminality?

Oh, well.

:shrug:

That's the beauty of Plausible Deniability. The failure to connect the dots that almost every major political assassination for the past three decades has benefited the Bushies or their Vassals is nursed on the mother's milk of Plausible Deniability.

That's why the Bushies have made an art form of it, why it briefly surfaced as part of our lexicon (now forgotten again, which also serves the Bushies) when we first heard about it during Iran-Contra and other Bushie High Treasons of the 80s.

We can never know for sure of course, and that gives the plausible deniability which trigger the Liberal Weakness of over-analysis and navel gazing which allows the Bushies to get the upper hand on their political enemies to strike first.

You Coincidence Theorists are a laff riot. Sure...Kennedy, Kennedy, King, Aquino, Bhutto, even Sadat's assassination ultimately provided them with Mubarak, a Bushie Dictator who had kept Egypt under the Bushie thumb for two decades now, turned out to vastly benefit our Imperial Rulers.

But it's all just a coincidence, right? That's what you Coincidence Theorists like to say, right?

Maybe you're right. I feel the same way about the alleged "Mafia Murders" of the second half of the 20th Century. It was all just a big coincidence those guys kept running into bullets, and to suggest that their murders benefiting any one group, like the Gambino Family, is Conspiracy Theorist lunacy of the highest order.

It was all just a coincidence, and I think we should all remember that when smearing hardworking Italian-Americans who just happen to be in Waste Management.

[Buzz Clik]

69. So ... you're among those who blame Bush for this?

[tom_paine]

73. Well, let's just say I don't like how the dots connect.

Kennedy, Kennedy, King, Mossadegh, Arbenz, Allende, Aquino, Sadat, Rabin, now Bhutto.

ALL the mortal enemies of the Bushies and their Vassals.

When has a Bushie or Bushie Vassal EVER met the same fate?

The many ways in which this is not just a matter of "Cui bono?" but the fucking synergistic JACKPOT of "Cui Bonos?"

1) Bhutto was a Liberal.

2) Bhutto was a unifying opposition leaders, like JFK, RFK and MLK.

3) Bhutto was in the process of standing up against Busharraf's Election Fraud.

4) Musharraf is a known quantity, a dictator who has the Bushie Art of Plausible Deniability.

5) The Bushies have kicked billions of dollars to Busharraf, he is theirs, bought and paid for.

6) Bhutto might actually have gone after Bin Laden, who is resting comfortably with the help of his Bushie Pals in the Pakistani ISI (their CIA).

7) Bhutto might have reigned in and gone after the corrupt elements of the ISI, just as Kennedy threatened to do with the CIA, before he, too, was killed by a "lone assassin".

8) This squirts "fear and terrorism" juices into the mind of every unaware Imperial Subjects of Amerika, which is to say 97-99.9% of us, bypassing the conscious mind and clouding reason. This works to the Bushies' advantage, as it has every time they have pumped us full of it.

9) In a stunning three-for-one Bushie Victory, they not only got rid of the Pakistani JFK (the first woman ever to lead a Muslim Nation, maybe even more remarkable than JFK in that regard) AND the Liberal Coalition, but like the murdered Pat Tillman, they get to wave her bloody corpse around to further their aims, which are the opposite of Bhutto's.

I'm no coincidence theorist, Buzz. Eventually enough dots line up and a picture becomes clear. Yes, I know, no ironclad proof, but that is a tough one when the criminals are in charge of the investigation. Always has been and always will be. They're still arguing over the Reichstag Fire and who set it, was it MIHOP or LIHOP, or did the Nazis just set it themselves.

Speaking of Nazis, and of connecting dots, how about this little gem?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20070723.shtml

To say that I am "blaming Bush" (and this is nothing but speculation, for which I have a great deal of suspicion and a large number of connectible dots) is to vastly oversimplify things. It makes it sound as if Bushler alone is responsible.

That is ludicrous. The Bush Crime Family is larger than the Gambinos, and twice as ruthless. Additionally, they control the organs of the State which would investigate them. The Democrats are neutered and powerless, even in the majority.

Another dot to connect: Is it merely yet ANOTHER coincidence that today's Democratic Party functions almost exactly as G. Gordon Liddy and the Watergate Conspirators envisioned they would after being "brought into line"? Although Liddy's original idea was to use cruise ships and hookers to dig up the dirt...he could not yet conceive of the power of Total Information Awareness in 1972.

Can it be yet another fortuitous coincidence for the Bushies? You see, at this point they would have to be the luckiest fucks who ever lived.

So yes, I suspect some confluence of Bushie Totalitarians at work here. I doubt if Busharraf would do this without the green light from Cheney, and even if he would, the Bushies likely heartily approve (see my 9-fold reasons above), although like John Gotti expressing regret over the untimely death of Paul Castellano in front of Sparks Steak House and attending the funeral, the niceties still have to be observed.

I know we disagree, but there are plenty of dots to connect, including the old (a coin doesn't come up heads a thousand times in a row) question:

When has a Bushie or Bushie Vassal EVER met the same fate as Bushie Enemies Kennedy, Kennedy, King, Mossadegh, Arbenz, Allende, Aquino, Sadat, Rabin, and now Bhutto?

<cue Jeopardy music>

[LSK]

70. but but but the Death Star was seen in Orbit last Wednesday!!!

:tinfoilhat:

[rucky]

71. Let's not even consider the possiblities and implications...

before we get the "official story.

:eyes:

[Buzz Clik]

72. You're the fourth or fifth one to make that comment. All of you missed the point.

The official story is likely to be manipulative. However, some of the ridiculous theories being projected go beyond silly.