Whenever I see the threads about the Democratic candidates I want to cry out.

[peacetalksforall]

Why is everyone spending so much time on hope without foundation?

Is there any candidate there beside Kucinich who has spent more than a total of five minutes since 2000 on the theft of our votes? The most grievous offenders are those in Congress and even Edwards?

Find out if YOUR candidate has ever spent one minute seeking oversight on specifications, communications-transfers, encryption, tallying, instructions, and on-site protections and security, investigations. Does not a secure vote come BEFORE running for office?

I see a very dark picture that is nearly all phony.

Why is voting NOT a talking point? Not on the agenda? Not in the speeches? Not a priority?

Correct me if any of your candidates has done something - Kucinich not included. He appears to be the exception unless you know something different about your candidate.

Will this thread die off before there are three replies?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I'll kick this

my candidate is Kucinich--and this is one of the reasons why.

[still_one]

2. After the 2000 election we were promised something would be done

Nothing has happened for the past seven years

I believe the reason is because they do not believe it is a winning issue, just as they do not believe that impeachment is a winning issue. Funny, but it really isn't about winning, it is about preserving our Republic

[peacetalksforall]

26. You may be right - refrain from making it a winning issue and it will go away.

Voting for some candidates means having a crystal ball - perhaps it is in their hidden agenda to do something after they're elected - or not.

[livvy]

3. From Biden's website.

Equal Access at the Ballot Box: Today, there are more than 9,000 black and 6,000 Latino elected officials, largely due to the Voting Rights Act that put an end to literacy tests and poll taxes in the 1960s. In the early 1980s, Joe Biden helped expand the Act, and last year worked hard to get the Act renewed. Joe Biden believes that more must be done to stop misleading voters, and to ensure votes are counted. He would: put a stop to deceptive practices – like passing out fliers telling people to vote on the wrong day; require electronic voting systems to have a paper trail; and make sure states adequately train poll workers. He also supports giving voting representation to the 600,000 residents in the District of Columbia who now have no voting members in Congress.


http://joebiden.com/issues/?id=0024

He is also in favor of campaign finance reforms:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAnl7ybDwBg

Here, too is an interesting video. He may not have all the answers, but I think his response to this impromptu interview shows that he has thought about the issues, and would be willing to work on reform.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jacob-soboroff/joe-biden-on-election-ref_b_67075.html

[peacetalksforall]

24. Can you help me out as I don't have time to read and watch until tomorrow - is there

anything there about hardware, software, flipping, transmitting, access by 'technicians' (some of whom were reported to be Russians? at one of the election locations?).

I'm talking oversight of Diebold, ES&S (Hagel), and some of the others.

So sorry to be combative, but the items you list in what you wrote are important, but the machines are the really big problem, even some with paper trails.

It is possible to combat and contain the lines and road blocks and tricks with foreknowledge which we now have.

It's the machines. Corporation machines that the greater Congress never blinked at - in seven years.

[livvy]

28. No problem. I don't find your question combative.

I'm glad you are concerned about election reform and interested to learn more about Biden's expertise and concerns in this area. I've spent a lot of time in the Election Reform forum, so it's an important issue for me as well.

Campaign finance reform is a huge issue for him. He sees it as the root of all the problems, including special interest groups, which would include Diebold and ES&S,etc. He said he has great concern over who owns the machines, and has been involved in election reform since he first came to the Senate, but he did not give specifics in the videos.

He stated he felt one way to begin solving the problem would be to have legislation that mandated one standard voting system, with a paper trail (ouch) for Federal Elections. Because of our Constitution the Federal government cannot dictate to the states what machines to use. His idea is that if there was legislation for Federal elections, it would put pressure on the states to adopt the same system as well. Their other option would be to purchase two systems, and that wouldn't make sense.

He made an interesting statement. He said there is an old saying, "you can't take two steps over a chasm. We've been taking two steps in election reform (for a while)...and we end up getting into more trouble."

This thread has piqued my interest. I will see if I can dig up anything more specific. If I do, I will post it here.

You have to remember his main areas of expertise. I got the sense from the videos that he was very aware of the whole range of problems with our elections, and would be supportive of changes that would make our elections more transparent, and of course accurate.

[peacetalksforall]

29. Quickie answer based on feeling, not knowledge. When I first

heard someone say that voting should be federalized, I was repulsed. I believe the states should remain in charge. However, I believe licensing and oversight of machines should be at the federal level. In other words, states manage the organization and their own rules, but any or all choices o machines are commonly vetted. So, I don't think I can go with what I think Biden is saying, but I'm not sure.

I still say there is so little involvement by Congress in a 'practical' way. Nuts and bolts are what we need. Real plans, studies, goals, a system of vetting that all the experts at MIT, John Hopkins, and all the other academic and independent experts can appove of for security. Actually, I ONLY want paper. It is doable. (As I said, if we don't do it, we should throw out the books and lessons we give our children.)

At least Biden has included something.

So far, can we say Kucinich 1, Edwards 2, Biden 3 with a wide range of specificity in between?

[hfojvt]

4. John Edwards

Reform Election Laws: America ought to set an example with the most trustworthy, inclusive and secure election system in the world. But recent elections have exposed major flaws, from insecure voting machines to laws and practices that disenfranchise citizens. Edwards will reform election laws to increase voter participation, promote fair elections, and enfranchise more Americans by:

Protecting the vote: Edwards will secure Americans' voting rights by requiring the use of paper ballots verified by voters. Voting machines will ensure access for people with disabilities and foreign-language speakers, use transparent and publicly accountable open-source software, and be verified by mandatory audits.

Expanding voting rights and participation: Because election-day registration is a proven way to raise voter turnout, Edwards will require it for federal elections and encourage states to offer no-excuse absentee voting. He will support the right of Washington, D.C. residents to have voting representation in Congress and expand the rights of ex-prisoners who have served their time to vote in federal elections.

Ending voter intimidation and suppression: Edwards will enact a new law making intentional interference with the right to vote a federal offense and providing tough penalties for political parties, officials and individuals. He will establish a Department of Justice task force to investigate patterns of dirty election tricks nationwide. He will also eliminate concerns over the partisan administration of elections by prohibiting chief state election officials from publicly supporting federal candidates.

http://www.johnedwards.com/issues/govt-reform/

[derby378]

5. In 2004, I voted on a DRE touchscreen manufactured by ES&S

I was assured that the machines were accurate, that enough people had examined them to assure that they could be trusted. But when I asked the poll worker for a paper receipt of my vote, she looked at me as though she were in a daze.

The sanctity of the vote must be preserved. It cannot be made the private property of any corporation, be it Diebold or ES&S or anyone else.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. We have advanced voting here and it is a paper ballot

So after I advance voted the first time, I asked to make a copy of my ballot. And the lady looked at me like I was crazy. Then I found out that you don't have to go to the election board to advance vote, they will send you a ballot in the mail if you want. So next election, I requested a mail in ballot and made a copy of it before I mailed it back. Don't know what good it did but I felt better. LOL

[fenriswolf]

6. i dont even bother with any thread that has

hillary or obama, just more slander from the two camps making each of there respective candidates look disrecspectfull from their positions.

[yardwork]

7. The voting machines are a huge problem and they're ignored too often on DU.

Too many supporters of various candidates (especially Clinton and Obama) bashing one another and one another's candidates. Too little focus on the important facts.

[sharp_stick]

8. Voting Machines Ignored on DU

Where the hell have you been? DU is the only place that it hasn't been ignored. Of course it has to be Clinton and Obama supporters causing it because the pure that support DK would never use a bad word about anyone else huh? Funny how you used that little line to bash them. I guess it's getting late in the process, that wasn't even inventive.

[peacetalksforall]

25. It is very true that DU has been the place to go for voting machine

knowledge and updates - including Latest Breaking News items. That means DUers can't be faulted, but they may be choosing candidates who could care less - and it means they thrive on hope - the hope that voting is honest.

What is getting to me is endless threads about choosing a candidate with eventual voting, but where is the substance and security of the vote act?

It is utterly stupid to spend millions and billions of moeny for a group to run for President and Vice-President and ignore the dishonesty of it.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

9. K & R

[HughMoran]

10. Yeah, I hate Democrats too

:rofl:

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. Next time you might want to read the whole post and not just the title

[HughMoran]

16. I read it top to bottom

I don't care for this type of "one issue" political posting. So, I chose to have some fun with the title. Sorry it bothered you.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. The safety of our vote is pretty darn important

I don't like one issue positions either. But if we can't trust our vote, we lose everything.

[HughMoran]

18. Of course it's an important issue

But certain argumentative techniques lead me to believe that there is no room for discussion from the original posters stance. I will not participate in a farce.

[Liberty Belle]

11. Here's one strong candidate who is speaking out and will fight to count our votes. Click to help:

Vickie Butcher wins endorsement of House Ethics Chair

Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones, chair of the House Committee on Standards of Official Conduct (Ethics), has endorsed Vickie Butcher for Congress. Congresswoman Tubbs Jones contested Ohio electors in the 2004 presidential race.

"I will fight to make sure that every vote is counted," announced Butcher, a strong supporter of voting rights and election integrity.

http://www.dfalink.com/campaign_post.php?id=74847

Note: Please help Vickie get the national DFA endorsement by clicking the "voice your support" and posting a comment to help Vickie win:
http://www.dfalink.com/campaign.php?id=2565

:bounce:

[peacetalksforall]

27. Wouldn't it be the height of hope to know that all the candidates who

chose to run said that they were going to do something to return our right.

I challenge all candidates who don't make it their issue - to at least demand that the books and lessons we teach our young kids be changed to tell the truth - that our votes don't count in some precincts and states.

[peaches2003]

12. Fraudulent machines in GA

The touchscreen machine I voted on here in Fulton County GA was totally fraudulent. Your votes for Dems all registered for Repugs if you took the time to look at the summary at the last step. I kept going back and redoing by votes until I found if I clicked on the line at the bottom of each Dem candidate's box it would finally register for the Democrat. The entire Dem candidate box registered for the Repug other than right on the line at the bottom. How many people thought they they were voting against Bush and that moron Sonny Perdue for governor when they clicked on the Dem boxes?

Of course this should be an issue, but it won't be.

[stillcool]

14. Who cares about counting votes...

It's all about the game..the horse race..the drama..regardless of the obvious farce of it all. It seems 'electoral fraud' is relegated to a 'conspiracy theory'. When I witnessed threads that went as far as asserting that Iowa students should not be allowed to participate in the Iowa primary, I realized how ridiculous it all is. The means to assuring the outcome of elections may have changed, but the intent is the same.

1790 Only white male adult property-owners have the right to vote.

1810 Last religious prerequisite for voting is eliminated.
1850 Property ownership and tax requirements eliminated by 1850. Almost all adult white males could vote.
1855 Connecticut adopts the nation's first literacy test for voting. Massachusetts follows suit in The tests were implemented to discriminate against Irish-Catholic immigrants.

1870 The 15th Amendment is passed. It gives former slaves the right to vote and protects the voting rights of adult male citizens of any race.

1889 Florida adopts a poll tax. Ten other southern states will implement poll taxes.
1890 Mississippi adopts a literacy test to keep African Americans from voting. Numerous other states—not just in the south—also establish literacy tests. However, the tests also exclude many whites from voting. To get around this, states add grandfather clauses that allow those who could vote before 1870, or their descendants, to vote regardless of literacy or tax qualifications.

1913/b] The 17th Amendment calls for members of the U.S. Senate to be elected directly by the people instead of State Legislatures.
1915 Oklahoma was the last state to append a grandfather clause to its literacy requirement (1910). In Guinn v. United States the Supreme Court rules that the clause is in conflict with the 15th Amendment, thereby outlawing literacy tests for federal elections.

1920 The 19th Amendment guarantees women's suffrage.
1924 Indian Citizenship Act grants all Native Americans the rights of citizenship, including the right to vote in federal elections.

1944 The Supreme Court outlaws "white primaries" in Smith v. Allwright (Texas). In Texas, and other states, primaries were conducted by private associations, which, by definion, could exclude whomever they chose. The Court declares the nomination process to be a public process bound by the terms of 15th Amendment.

1957 The first law to implement the 15th amendment, the Civil Rights Act, is passed. The Act set up the Civil Rights Commission—among its duties is to investigate voter discrimination.

1960 In Gomillion v. Lightfoot (Alabama) the Court outlaws "gerrymandering."
1961 The 23rd Amendment allows voters of the District of Columbia to participate in presidential elections.
1964 The 24th Amendment bans the poll tax as a requirement for voting in federal elections.
1965 Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., mounts a voter registration drive in Selma, Alabama, to draw national attention to African-American voting rights.
1965 The Voting Rights Act protects the rights of minority voters and eliminates voting barriers such as the literacy test. The Act is expanded and renewed in 1970, 1975, and 1982.
1966 The Supreme Court, in Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections, eliminates the poll tax as a qualification for voting in any election. A poll tax was still in use in Alabama, Mississippi, Texas, and Virginia.
1966 The Court upholds the Voting Rights Act in South Carolina v. Katzenbach.

1970 Literacy requirements are banned for five years by the 1970 renewal of the Voting Rights Act. At the time, eighteen states still have a literacy requirement in place. In Oregon v. Mitchell, the Court upholds the ban on literacy tests, which is made permanent in 1975. Judge Hugo Black, writing the court's opinion, cited the "long history of the discriminatory use of literacy tests to disenfranchise voters on account of their race" as the reason for their decision.
1971 The 26th amendment sets the minimum voting age at 18.
1972 In Dunn v. Blumstein, the Supreme Court declares that lengthy residence requirements for voting in state and local elections is unconstitutional and suggests that 30 days is an ample period.
1995 The Federal "Motor Voter Law" takes effect, making it easier to register to vote.
2003 Federal Voting Standards and Procedures Act requires states to streamline registration, voting, and other election procedures.

[nashville_brook]

19. kick, etc...

[eroded47095]

20. I'm Sorry

But I could never never never EVER believe that bush would do anything so crazy as to steal an election.

If that's what it's come to, then all is lost.

Better to stick with the Official Version.

Sorry.

[stillcool]

21. You'll really be sorry...

if you take a look at this forum...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203

and...by the way...not all electoral fraud has Bush's name attached. Perhaps you might see things differently if you took 'Bush' out of the equation.

[eroded47095]

23. I'll look there when I get the chance.

Still touring....

:-)

[Ravy]

22. Google "John Edwards Voting Machines". Too many links for me to paste. nt