Clinton is NOT a "Corporate Democrat"-- fact vs. religious zeal

[siri2k]

This article (http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011142.php">Is Hillary Clinton a "Corporate Democrat?" - Part 3, 10 Oct 2007) debunks the near religious conviction held by anti-Clinton fanatics.

www.legitgov.org

[Perry Logan]

1. Thanks for the link. Of course, we both know the Clintophobes will just go on repeating themselves.

[fenriswolf]

2. i love a bunch of graphs spouting off facts and figures

about something (being a progressive) that is inherriently relative to each individual. what gets me is that she is the person with the most corporations, pacs and bundlers. http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/select.asp?Ind=B12 and these graphs are based on something that can be accepted almost universally. so if she is not a corpratist candidate why do the candidates give her all the money. my second point is the amount of face time the major corporate news networks give her. http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/08/candidate_face_time_on_news_networks_/

so if she is not the corporate candidate why does she get the most attention from them with both contributions and face time?

[JackRiddler]

5. Oh, but the association of societies...

of associations that call themselves liberal say she has an 89% rating! QED.

[fenriswolf]

7. i prefer to put trust in the figures i find

not the figures that other people find, tabulate and then spit back that are utterly meaningless unless you put blind faith in the instition. how she votes and who is giving her support are why i answer the way i do.

[JackRiddler]

11. Bravo!

We are in full agreement.

[focusfan]

14. Maybe it is the corporations that are losing money

like Ford GM and Chrysler or the constuction industry.Road constuction is almost at a standstill since 2001.Interstates are falling apart and getting more crowded daily.I have driven on strip job roads that are in better shape than some parts of I-75

[maddiejoan]

3. Thanks for posting this

K&R and bookmarked.

[JackRiddler]

4. Oh, no, not the dodge-by-ratings strategy again...

It doesn't matter what cumulative scores certain groups choose to give. How they weigh their ratings, which votes they consider worthy of going into the score is irrelevant. Everyone's smart enough to come to their own conclusions by studying the record themselves, regardless of what ADA wants to say is important.

"Corporate" is the least of it - that's almost all of these treasonous boogers.

She has an exceptionally pro-war, pro-imperialist record.

You can never take back her yes-votes on all the Bush initiatives that mattered.

You can especially never get rid of the stench of the pro-war votes: on Iraq and, quite recently, on Iran.

[siri2k]

9. OK, but do you want Giuliani, Romney or Huckabee?

John Edwards is preferable to Hillary Clinton, but I just wanted to clarify some misconceptions about Hillary Clinton.

[JackRiddler]

10. What's that supposed to mean?

False dichotomy.

[sendero]

15. If all we're going to get...

.. is more Iraq war, more big Pharma and big Insurance giveaways, I'd just as soon have it done by a Republican rather than having the Democratic party take the BLAME for all the SHIT that is going to result.

So if the question is "would HRC be at least a little better than a Republcan?" well the answer is of course yes. Is she enough better to give a shit, no, not for me.

[siri2k]

16. You're positive H.Clinton will support big pharma, etc., if she...

becomes president? I'm just wondering how/why you're so sure of the outcome.
I think Hillary Clinton hates the Reichwing and would not support the corpora-terrorists, if she gets the Democratic nomination and wins the 'election.'

[fenriswolf]

17. of course she hates it while

the "reichwing" while her husband smoozes with them. I also love the meaningless phrases you spit out like reichwing and "corpora-terrorists" As per your question as big pharm and is contributing the most to hillary i am sure she will reciprocate. please stop trying to play up her weaknesses. Go and talk up her inebitability. at least then we couldnt logically argue with you.

[siri2k]

20. Philosophically, the 'goal' is to get the person 'farthest to the left'

elected. I think that's what most people (except for Freepers and lurkers) on DU desire.
That having been said, OF COURSE the candidate with the voting record that would closely match my own (if I was in Congress, lol) is Dennis Kucinich.
But, I really don't see him winning the Democratic nomination!

In other words, if Hillary Clinton (eventually) wins the presidency and votes to strengthen the EPA, etc., I'll take that 'small victory' over a rightwing president who would, for example, weaken the EPA, etc.

[fenriswolf]

31. course that is a generalized feeling among any true

democrate. but your not prepping us for a general election in which hillary is the nominee. This is regarding the primary election in which i am not going to vote for hillary and if i do have to vote for someone besides kucinich i damn sure hope it will be anybody but hillary.

[sendero]

19. Because her health care proposal..

... is nothing but more giveaways to the industry.

[earthlover]

21. she gets more donations from pharma than anyone, rep or dem

will she bite the hand that feeds her?

[JackRiddler]

50. How about a candidate about whom I don't need to guess?

We're all adults here and the strategy of voting first on faith in the expectation that once in office they will reveal their hidden true and good side is dubious! Not only that, it's never worked.

[TreasonousBastard]

24. How about the option of less of this shit? Otherwise, this..

is one of the more ridiculous posts of the season.

[hfojvt]

26. it isn't even just the votes.

It's the rhetoric. That she continued to support the war past December 2005 and beyond. Not just with votes, but with letters and speeches.

[dkf]

6. How many of her friends are lobbyists?

That is what I want to know.

We need to get rid of lobbying as a profession. Its too corrupting of government.

[DawgHouse]

8. Thanks, very informative! n/t

[CorpGovActivist]

12. The Actual FEC Filings...

... http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/com_detail/C00431569/">for Hillary's campaign.

- Dave

[bobbolink]

28. There you go again....

relying on facts and reason.

DAMN you!

:evilgrin:

[CorpGovActivist]

34. Facts Are Stubborn Things...

... and don't yield easily to rah-rah-sisk-boom-bah types.

- Dave

[bobbolink]

40. Agreed. However, unfortunately, those same facts can be severely twisted by the corporate propagand

As we're seeing on DU, sadly.

The facts may be stubborn and clear, but they can be badly abused.

And muddied.

Luckily, there are some DUers who insist on the REal facts.

:thumbsup:

[CorpGovActivist]

42. Primary Documents Rock n/t

[LWolf]

45. That's quite a list.

Thanks for providing it.

:thumbsup:

[CorpGovActivist]

51. "But of course..."

:rofl:

Data is the gourmet mustard in any race.

- Dave

[LWolf]

54. I happen to be a mustard lover.

;)

[nosmokes]

13. maybe not, but she sure is a reasonable facsimile.

[EFerrari]

18. LOL

[earthlover]

22. Then is she a "corporate Republican?"

[TreasonousBastard]

23. I still want to know what...

a "Corporate Democrat" is.

Better yet, what's the alternative?

Seems an "acceptable" candidate ranges from someone who will blow up GM headquarters not caring how many people are put out of work to someone who will close loopholes and return to reasonable regulation. I get the impression that anything less than Lenin is too rightwing for some around here.

The "Hillary is a corporate whore" mantra is simply pure bullshit. She may be leaning toward looser regulation than some would like, but I don't see her falling over the cliff any more than her husband did.

Every Republican candidate, otoh, will be almost as bad as to much worse than what we have now.

[bobbolink]

29. You don't know what the alternative is?

Really?

Where have you been?

[TreasonousBastard]

32. Spending too much time in the real world, I guess.

[bobbolink]

33. The real world being the bushistas, the corporate media, and other propaganda organs.

[TreasonousBastard]

35. No, just DU, the Daily Show, Countdown, and Alternet. Where...

else is truth?

I do miss the traffic and weather reports, though.

[bobbolink]

38. Then you're plugging up your ears.

Counterproductive.

Our nation depends upon an educated citizenry.

[bvar22]

39. Her husband DID fall (jump) over the cliff....

from a Union LABOR/Middle Class Working American viewpoint.

I don't believe Working Americans can survive another DLC Clinton presidency.










"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[hfojvt]

25. interesting about Progressive Punch

when I dig into the weeds, I find that Lieberman's score is brought down by MISSED VOTES

http://progressivepunch.yvod.com/members.jsp?member=CTI&district=At%20large&issue=A0

For example, on Seniors, where his score was only 60.87% he missed 18 votes and got a score of "close vote absent" mostly in June 2003. What was going on in June 2003? Lieberman was running for President. I find similar things when I check his other low scores.

I conclude: take away the absent votes and Progressive Punch would say that Lieberman is just as progressive as Clinton, Obama, Dodd, or Edwards. Since we know that is not true, that says to me their scoring system kinda sucks. Either that or Lieberman is not a corporate Democrat either.

[ileus]

27. Hillary is the onle REAL democrat running.

She's the leader of our party like it or not...50 states in 2008 with her we can do it.

[bobbolink]

30. Really? What are the others, then, pray tell?

Communists?

Terrorists?

Republicans?

We're waiting with baited breath....

[flvegan]

36. Pfft. Thanks for the laugh.

[fenriswolf]

37. omg dont make me throw up

with that blind faith. i don't care that you love hillary just don't say that crap and think for yourself.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

41. Oh my....

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Now I think I have truly heard everything on DU! Thanks for that serious laugh! :hi:

[HughBeaumont]

47. Will you PLEASE, at last, STOP this?

Hillary is not going to turn ONE. RED. 2004. STATE. America isn't New York and this isn't a Senatorial race against weak Republican opponents.

[DemKR]

43. K&R

[depakid]

44. Up is down, black is white

Americans will say most anything in the 21st Century....

[magellan]

46. Is this a joke?

Clinton is DLC. Her top contributors are investment firms, lawyers and the media. That may not spell "Corporate Dem" to you, but it sure as hell does to me.

[HughBeaumont]

48. Last I checked, supporting free trade and job offshoring isn't exactly pro-worker.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GC01Df03.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/538674.cms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/593175.cms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhLBSLLIhUs
Hillary pushes for more h1-b visas and outsourcing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLNOSGM2jK4
Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgdrh2Bc95M
Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 2)

[KingFlorez]

49. Very good post

[Zhade]

52. a president does not get to choose which illegally-obtained powers to keep.

She has indicated she would keep some of the powers bush/cheney have illegally accumulated.

That fact can't be spun away.

[Girlieman]

53. What a total load of crap

It just shows how narrow the political discourse is in this country. The notion that Hillary does not wear knee pads and give Monica Lewinsky to corporate interests at every opportunity does not mean that she is a progressive. It only means that she is not a neo-con George Bush corporate fascist.

Hillary poses zero threat to corporate interests. She basically stands for the status quo, and would only support modest restraints on corporate power.

The corporations figure there's going to be a Democrat in the White House in 2009, and they're putting their money on the candidate they feel will be the best for them -- Hillary.

That makes her a corporate democrat in my book.