A bit of a rant from the South...

[Dawggie]

If you're a Southerner, I'm sure you're aware of it. You see it in the media every day and quite often on boards such as this. Being stuck in the house today I've been watching a lot of television. Caught an old rerun of Chevy Chase's Fletch 2 which took place in Louisiana portraying Southerners as white robe wearing ignoramuses, greedy "Boss Hogg" characters, criminal evangelicals or the big breasted dumb-assed blonde. I thought to myself that the movie is 20 years old and maybe things have changed.

Then I watched a "Cold Case Files" about rubes from Tennessee going up to PA.

No better. They even went to Nashville where the local police chief went by "Big Daddy." And even had the inside joke of "that's a red state isn't it?" preclude the visit and why no one wanted to go there.

Flannery O'Conner
F. Scott Fitzgerald
Truman Capote
Mark Twain
Zora Neil Hurston
Eudora Welty
Richard Wright
George Washington Cable
W.E.B. DuBois
Robert Penn Warenn
William Faulkner
Thomas Wolfe
Harper Lee
Walker Percy
Flannery O'Conner
James Dickey
William Styron
Clyde Edgerton
Alice Walker
John Grisham

There are many many more artists from the South who have sung the songs of Democratic principal and there are many of us here who while not as talented as the few I have listed are just as devoted to the principles of Democracy and Liberty for all.

We are not all buffoons, we do not all 'shuck and jive' we are not all Republicans and it does rub us wrong when portrayed or assumed to be one of those descriptors.

If you want to se the "Old South" today, I'd invite you to one of the larger "Fiddler's Conventions" that you can find quite easily. There you might find artists trained at Julliard or on the back porch of a cabin in the Appalachians. You'll find a lot of Dead fans as well as Mother Maybell Carter fans. You can talk with rednecks and philosophers, plumbers and doctors. You can find a rich mix of people and very few to fill the stereotypes that have been implanted by the past decades of "entertainment."

I don't think that everyone from CA speaks valley speak. I don't think everyone from NYC is associated with Tony Soprano. I don't believe everyone in Maine is a village idiot from a Stephen King novel... You get the idea?

So please don't write off your Southern neighbors so easily in the upcoming elections.

We're here. We're bright enough, and we have feelings, too.

Peace.

[K Gardner]

1. James Agee, Cormac McCarthy, Al Gore... :-)

Just adding a few more, two of whom I've known. Thank you for this.

[waiting for hope]

4. Jimmy Carter too -

The man is smarter than most realize.

[Thothmes]

59. And

probably the most honest man to occupy the oval office in the 20th century. JMO

[waiting for hope]

77. I concur!

[FiveGoodMen]

113. Me, too.

[Dawggie]

6. Thank you for your worthy additions...

The list is long and respectable.

Kate Chopin
Lillian Wellman
and Fannie Flagg were also inadvertently excluded.

Please, friends, feel free to add to this list.

[Frances]

2. I am a native Alabamian

who has lived in Massachusetts, Maryland, and California. There are good things and bad things about each of the states I've lived in.

Right now I'm in a blue state. The broader area I'm in is blue. But the town I'm in is red, and my town house development is red. I just do my best to avoid political talk with the "reds" and to appreciate those who are what I consider more enlightened.

[JustDavid]

133. YEP, what about diversity?

I am sure a hiphop guy, or a middle eastern guy, or french Pierre type guy, or a gay guy, or a lesbian, etc etc, would be welcome in all parts of the US in places like NY and SanFran.

Would a farmer dressed in overalls be welcomed as well? Or would he be immediately shunned as a 'redneck'? Isn't redneck a diverse lifestyle as well?

OOPS I just did it myself....I just stereotyped southerners with farmers. Not all southerners are farmers and not all farmers are redneck and not all rednecks are southerners...oh you get my drift.

[Dhalgren]

3. But in all honesty, there isn't enough of us to make a dent in the

right-wing strangle-hold on our respective states. Even those states with an in-state Democratic majority are of right-wing Democrats. I agree that southerners are not all casting rejects from "Deliverance", but there are loads of otherwise intelligent southerners who still think Reagan was great...

[Dawggie]

12. As long as that is what the media keeps feeding them/us

there's a good chance that 50% will believe it and act accordingly.

It's a predisposed condition that has existed over voting cycles since the 60's. It's time to change the paradigm and respect the South if there will ever be change.

[Dhalgren]

17. Well, I am not very familiar with other parts of the country

(I lived in Iowa for a couple of years, attending school), but I am intimately familiar with the state of Alabama, and I do not believe that there is much hope to find down here. Too many people are ignorant, many of them willfully so. I guess as long as you can list a couple of dozen people of merit, then all is not lost...

[Dawggie]

18. I live here. And so do many like minded people.

Haven't had or hit an empty Move On gathering yet.

Had a candlelight Vigil for the war attended by hundreds.

Support would be nice rather than telling us we're pissing in the wind down here.

[Dhalgren]

21. I am born and raised in Alabama and live here now. If you think

the south's reputation isn't deserved, well, good for you. I have seen too much, witnessed too much, to hold this region in very high esteem.

But, more power to you, maybe you can turn this whole region around. I wish you luck!

[tbyg52]

95. I'm not too crazy about most of my state either,

but, to me, that's not the point. I'm just getting sick of being tarred with the same brush. Sure Texas is a bloc (now, cross fingers for the future) as far as electoral votes, etc., but I've seen too many posts that seem to imply that that means that every *individual* in the state goes along, and posts that malign Texans on things other than what can legitimately be thought of as a bloc. Knee jerk reactions that would not be tolerated if applied to a race or religion.

[Dhalgren]

100. I understand what you are saying - I really get that. But I do not

identify myself as an "Alabamian" or as a "Southerner". I realize that I will be stereotyped by those who don't know me. Usually, when I meet a person for the first time, they are surprised when they learn that I am from the south - I've never had a strong accent and over the years have all but lost it - and being a far left commie-pinko doesn't fit the stereotype, either. I just cannot identify with this state or region and so take no offense at anyone's opinion of it (or them).

:shrug:

[tbyg52]

103. I don't "identify" with mine that much either,

but I *was* born here, I *do* live here (stuck), and there *are* some people and things I like here. And I have never liked unnecessary generalizations..... ;)

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. Part of the rep seems to come from the fact that the south votes as

a solid republican block regardless of the stupidity of the presidential candidate, & the more backward & regressive the platform, the more solid they get.

[K Gardner]

7. Clinton & Gore carried the South.. just sayin... n/t

[Zynx]

124. Not the Deep South.

They carried most of the mid-South, but never the Deep South. Clinton won LA and GA at least once, but that was it.

[Dawggie]

10. As long as that "rep" is unchallenged, the longer it shall "exist."

I am NOT alone down here. But we do need help from our brothers in the North (read Blue)

[gateley]

8. On the other hand, the pundits, media, etc., seem to view Edwards

being Southern as a plus. It seems to be a positive in a presidential race, as opposed to the New England tag, which is considered a negative.

[Dawggie]

A candidate's etnicity is quite different from a voting block's ethnicity

(If you can call a geographical grouping of voters an ethnicity)

:)

[TransitJohn]

9. Hey there!

Stereotypes suck. I get them all the time here for being from Wyoming. :hi:

[CorpGovActivist]

11. Southern Authors Kick...

... I already rec'd.

- Dave

[Dawggie]

15. Why, Ah thank'ya kind sir.

Savannah
Atlanta
New Orleans
Huntsville, AL

All are filled with Dems just waithing to get out of their closets.

[CorpGovActivist]

16. Charlotte, Charleston, Austin, Richmond...

... too.

Ah do declayah, this is two-julip topic.

; )

- Dave

[lildreamer316]

23. Amen, from a Greensboro -to -Charlotte moving family. n/t

[CorpGovActivist]

24. Charlotte Is Like a Real-Life...

... http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=charlotte+skyline&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi">Emerald City, with great zoning, great food, and a purple-to-blue making influx of great people.

- Dave

[Dawggie]

27. I love Charlotte and its wonderful people.

[lildreamer316]

60. Yep, I can't wait.

We're really not sure exactly when we will be moving, due to the fact that my house here is in trust for me, and not really in saleable conditon, etc. etc. But husband works there four to five days a week, so we are gonna have to move at some point. I have no friends here anymore anyway. I am SO ready to go!!

Three more to throw it towards blue.... :)

[Thirtieschild]

13. It's p.c. to sterotype the South.

I lived in the South most of my life but grew up on the Plains, and in my experience the Plains are FAR more conservative than the South. My hometown county (Texas Panhandle) brags on its website that in 2004 it gave a higher percentage of votes to W than any county in the country. That isn't the South bragging, that's the Plains.

[blogslut]

56. We have the same hometown

:hi:

[Thirtieschild]

102. Perryton???????????

[blogslut]

126. Amarillo

Is Perryton in Potter county? I thought it was Potter county that had the most Dubya voters per capita.

[Thirtieschild]

135. Maybe the whole Panhandle makes that claim.

I grew up on the Amarillo Daily News and was an arch-conservative when I left at age 18 in 1953. I've often wondered if I'd be right-wing if I'd stayed. I hope not but I see classmates who stayed in the Panhandle, who are intelligent and creative, and they adore Bush. How do I know I wouldn't be one of them?

[Zynx]

125. You're from Ochiltree?

That place is nuts. I didn't even think there were Democrats there.

[Thirtieschild]

134. Thought Ochiltree was a well-kept secret. As it should be.

When I went back for my 50th class reunion in 2003 (yes, there are people here who are that old) I had to listen to prayers thanking God for our wonderful president. Turned out there were three Dems out of the 38 there (closer to 50 if you count spouses), although I was the only one to openly admit it. (One confessed but only if I kept it secret, the other I already knew about but no one else did.) I happened to be visiting, impromptu class reunion, when the election results came in in 1994. Gag. And there was the argument I had with the entire class at another impromptu reunion, this one in 1968, in which everyone agreed with the woman who would let a three-year-old starve to death rather than give the parents welfare. Recently met someone who lived there in 1969 and after a black friend - a professor at Texas Tech - spent the weekend, the police came and warned them not to let it happen again. I have a hard time understanding the politics of the descendants of the Dust Bowl survivors. We wouldn't have made it if the federal government hadn't helped. You listen to Woody Guthrie's songs about how awful it was and it breaks your heart. How can they forget so quickly????

Btw, how do you know about Ochiltree, and yes, it is nuts. I got out as soon as I graduated.

[Zynx]

138. I looked up what was the biggest percentage Bush got anywhere.

Ochiltree county was right up on the top of the list. I've actualy made some references to Ochiltree county in some political papers I've written when referring to places Democrats shouldn't even bother with. I know that's probably not fair, but that's how it appeared to me. I've been in the area before as I've been a lot of places in Texas, but never in the county itself as far as I know.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Auntie Bush]

19. You forgot Bill Clinton and Al Gore. nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. Thus fulfilling the "Southerners are Sooooo Put Upon" thread quota for this week

:eyes:

[Dawggie]

22. I'm sorry, I've never written one of these before. Would you care to link

to previous such treads so that I can see I am boring your sensibilities?

I will be wary, thus of insulting you by acknowledging my geographical condition.

If this is so, and I have shed undo aspersions in your direction, I apologise to you and your geographic superiority.

[Lex]

25. He liked it well enough to post on it, didn't he?

Poor fellow.

[Ishoutandscream2]

36. Beautiful

Well put.

I guess some people don't recognize the amount of threads bashing the south. They don't recognize it because they aren't from the south.

[alcibiades_mystery]

62. You haven't insulted me

I guess I'm a little more thick-skinned than your breed, who seem to catch a case of the vapors pretty much hourly over some imagined insult.

It is boring, though. You're right about that.

[Sugar Smack]

44. Oh, shut up, alcibiades. Y'all know you love us.

;-)

[Name removed]

26. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jpgray]

28. Fact is, "your" region as you claim it elects more of the worst people than any other

Is that your fault? Nope. Is it the fault of famous authors and public figures from the South? Not really. Does it mean great people can't be from the South? Nope. In fact, you can't judge any individual just based on their region of habitation. As a whole I worry about their electoral habits, and what the causes of such are, but in judging an individual, knowing they are Southern doesn't give license to unfair prejudice. But the region shouldn't make up your identity to begin with--it's the people and experiences, not the lines on the map.

[Dawggie]

32. If you had read the OP you would know I assigned no blame toward any election

toward any geographic prediction. My statements are that the South is victim to vast amounts of mainstream stereotyping. Black Jockeys as driveway markers, Aunt Jemimas as cookie jars, Daisy Dukes at every corner, Junior Samples staffing every store, KKK ralleys in every backwater location...

Sorry, we have the same shit as the rest of America. SCIA, Honeywell and more Industrial war complex labs than we'd like. Mercedes, Saturn, Toyota & hyaundai plants. Not that many cotton fields anymore. We housed the Nazi Scientists that created the Saturn 5 projects which led to our rise into Space. I got to Meet Werner Von Braun as a child. Typical Alabama redneck thing, I know.

You're right, the lines on the map should have been erased many years ago, but they have not been.

[harun]

88. Is the stereotyping the result of your election habits or are the

election habits the result of the stereotyping?

[Sugar Smack]

75. Have I told you lately that I love you?

:bounce:

[Le Taz Hot]

118. 'Scuze me, but *my* region

managed to put two really great specimens into the White House -- Nixon and Reagan. Not to mention, Dornan, Issa, Pombo and a whole lot more I don't care to remember. The South's got NOTHIN' on Cal-ee-for-nia.

[babylonsister]

29. Really great post and thank you for it! Rec'd some more. nt

[kineneb]

30. you forgot Molly Ivins and Jim Hightower!

Ok, they are from Texas, but from where I am, it is part of the "south".



American semi-citizen from the country of California- not just a state but a state of mind...fruits and nuts included...

[Feron]

31. Unfortunately it is an acceptable prejudice.

It's disappointing when people who are otherwise progressive think it is okay to put down others on the basis of their perceived class and location. It's just as poisonous as racism, homophobia, or sexism.

There are progressives down here, but don't expect to recruit many people if nationally Democrats piss on an entire block of voters. Southerners aren't stupid-we know when we aren't welcome. Furthermore if you write Southerners off, then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy that the South will remain red. Many ,if not all, Southern states are competitive if the Democratic party would give a damn and organize. Not this half assed token shit.

Southern progressives don't want special treatment, we just want the same respect afforded everyone else.

[Dawggie]

33. Well said!

Thanks

[Chovexani]

37. Are you serious?

It's just as poisonous as racism, homophobia, or sexism.

When the fuck has anyone ever been dragged from the back of a pickup truck, tied to a fence to die, or raped for being from the South? When has anyone ever been unjustly convicted of a crime for being from the South? When has anyone ever been spat upon and beaten to death for it? Note: being made fun of on TV or internet message boards does not constitute persecution.

Look, it's not right to paint people with a broad brush but you don't do yourself any favors with this bullshit martyr complex. Stereotyping is awful and I don't like the pile-ons that happen around here on Southerners but you really need to get off the cross because I'm sure you can use the lumber to build yourself a bridge over that river of crocodile tears.

[IndianaJones]

51. anti-south sentiment is as insidious as reverse racism. nt.

[bunkerbuster1]

73. I agree, given that "reverse racism" is a mostly BS phobia.

Which is to say I don't think it's really all that insidious.

Look, I live in the south, and I've spent many years in "red" states and I know enough about them to recognize that there are many good/great Southerners/Red-staters with progressive cred.

I also recognize that there is, and has been for decades, an acceptable level of regional bigotry against "elitist" population centers on the Coasts, and against New England in general. It's perfectly acceptable for Mitt Romney to whip Republican voters into a frenzy over how he tamed them godless Massachusetts folks, or for Rudy Guiliani to do likewise when he goes on about how he happily knocked black people around to get nasty ol' New York City under control.

Yet this constant bashing of blue-state sensibilities, this nasty crap about Nancy Pelosi being out of the mainstream simply because she represents "San Francisco values," goes mostly unchallenged, and often repeated in mainstream news media.

Yes, social stereotyping is always bad. Yes, I too wish, as does the original poster, that TV scriptwriters wouldn't stoop to tired old "Southern" characters that don't often reflect typical reality. But let's not pretend it isn't happening, constantly, to the Blue states and Blue staters.

[Chovexani]

97. Thank you!

Southerners need to quit acting so butthurt like they're the only ones that get bashed.

[LanternWaste]

106. Really? Do tell..

Really? Do tell...

Maybe you could expound on your statement a bit, rather than a header follow by "n/t"?


Probably not... :shrug:

[lastliberalintexas]

67. I think classism is the problem, not anti-southern "bigotry"

But the fact that so much of the anti-southern posts on this board and the stereotypes of southerners found in US media is based on that of a poor, uneducated and/or ignorant person (whether white or black) is rather telling. And classism is just as pervasive and almost as dangerous as racism and sexism, indeed, often inextricably intertwined with the others. While much that can be said of the south is deserved, much is just evidence of the antipathy to the lower classes in our society.


I often hate my state, and am only grateful that I have a circle of friends which includes a number of people who are much more liberal and moderate than much of Texas. I live in SE Texas, which is far more southern than the rest of the state, but I have lived in other parts of Texas- one of which was the panhandle- and the mid Atlantic for a period. I agree with the poster above who said that the plains are far, far more right wing than the south. So if the south bashing were truly based solely or even mostly on politics, why isn't the central to western part of the US hated more here? After all, who voted for the Dem more recently- Nebraska or Arkansas? Did any states provide a higher level of support to Bush in 2000 and 2004 than Idaho, Utah or Wyoming?

Though I'm sure there would also be a great deal of classism in those discussions as well, unfortunately.

[Chovexani]

96. I agree that a large part of it is classism

Which is bullshit and needs to stop. But I am very wary of people speaking about classism as it pertains to racism because too often people use it to dismiss racism. The two intersect a lot of the time but they are not the same thing.

Oh and trust me, I hate the central and western parts of the US (I will be the first to say Arizona is an ignorant shit hole) just as much as I hate the South, I just have more personal experience with the South and I can honestly say I thank the Gods my grandparents got the fuck out when they did so I only had to deal with it during summers as a child.

[Two Americas]

34. this is needed

Well done. Thanks. I strongly believe that we have a once in a generation opportunity to turn the rural South Democratic in this coming cycle. The issue of the increasing gap between the have-nots and the very few at the top who are amassing all of the wealth and power in the country, and the resultant economic inequality, the corruption and the threat to democracy that are caused by the culture of greed, renders all of the so-called "culture war" issues weak and irrelevant by comparison.

What people in the North don't understand is that it is rural areas that are largely Republican, and the South is more rural than the North. Take Detroit out of Michigan, and Michigan becomes a red state. Place Detroit in Mississippi, and Mississippi becomes a blue state. The rural Midwest is as conservative as any place in the South.

The strongest and most courageous fighters for justice and equality are found in the South, in my direct personal experience.

[southerncrone]

35. Yes, Dawggie, I feel your pain.

You are correct when you blame the media for perpetuating the idea that Southerners are imbeciles. The old movies & TV shows that are now in syndication continually underscore that image. Many of these shows depict any rural dwellers as rubes. These are funny shows that we all love, but they continue to damage our image. (Let's face it, the more ridiculous a group looks, the more entertaining.)

Such as:
The Beverly Hillbillies
Green Acres
Petticoat Junction
The Real McCoys
The Ma & Pa Kettle movies
Deliverance
Smokey & the Bandit
....the list goes on & on

We have been painted as a "lesser" breed. Because we prefer a slower lifestyle, other parts of the country seem to think our brains are slower, too. You & I know that is far from the truth. Still observation & contemplation are signs of true genius.

Granted we do have our share of dullards, but I've met dumbshits from all over the country, so I know we don't have a monopoly on them.

Have you noticed lately how the rest of the country seems to be moving HERE? What does that tell you? ;)

[Zookeeper]

38. Good post, Southerncrone!

During my decade living in Northern California (mostly in S.F.), I observed that the natives of the region were as dull and ignorant as the natives of any other region in the country, if not more so because they were suffering from the belief that being from the Promised Land of California meant that they didn't need to know anything about the U.S. east of Reno and Las Vegas. (My co-workers were shocked when I told them that Minnesota had a "real" summer. They thought it snowed all year round here! :D )

And the rural areas of California are pretty "red."

[magellan]

39. There are some who benefit from keeping the Mason-Dixon line intact

They're the same ones who benefit from drawing bright lines between those who are "Christian" and "true patriots" and the rest of us. Do you see a trend here? I do.

I was born and raised in the NE but now live in FL. I'd love to get out of here, but it has everything to do with how, well, scary this state is to live in for any number of reasons, not the people. I try to judge others on an individual basis, not as a block (except for unabashed conservatives). Sadly there are those in power who find it most beneficial to pour salt in open wounds. It's a shame because the South is held down by their manipulation and hurt by the stereotypes that result.

[rwenos]

40. Maybe if Y'all Didn't Ridicule California Quite So Much . . .

We'd take time out from our surfing, hiking, sailing, sunbathing, movie-going and business to worry about whether our opinions of the South are hurting anyone's feelings.

I've spent time in Texas and Georgia, and would be okay with never going back. On the other hand, I'm glad people live there -- because that way they aren't living in California.

Didn't y'all secede from the Union once upon a time? How'd that work out for ya?

[Zookeeper]

42. Yes. California is the ONLY place in the country with...

surfing, hiking, sailing, sunbathing and movie-going.

:rofl:

On edit: The native Californians I worked with, didn't surf, ski or hike. Mostly, they worked and sat in traffic.

[K8-EEE]

45. Yeah I'm a SoCa gal & very "live and let live" but

It annoys me that my whole life I've been told that the Dems can only win with a Southern candidate because "they" won't vote for a yankee. I mean wth. Did they try to break up the Union -- and didn't they LOSE? And now on FR etc it's like "oh I'm not gonna vote for that (New Englander, 'Hollywood type,' etc.)

My candidate is a Southerner (I'm a John Edwards supporter) but it aggravates me when I hear Southerners will only vote for a Southerner. WTF with that.

[Sugar Smack]

41. HUNTER THOMPSON, baybeee!

:bounce: My personal hero.

[Sugar Smack]

66. Tom Wolfe. "I Am Charlotte Simmons"

"The Bonfire of the Vanities"
"A Man in Full"

:loveya:

[K Gardner]

43. I've returned a couple hours later to find a perfectly hospitable and agreeable post fairly spat

upon by comments that were uncivil, bigoted and uncalled for. Thus you make the case perfectly why the line is still there and does remain.

[Dawggie]

108. I have noticed that as well.

The OP slammed no one and simply asked that the South not be given up on by the Democrats in the upcoming elections.

[IndianaJones]

46. I believe the representations and characterizations are well earned.

There are, of course, exceptions.

[Sugar Smack]

47. Shrimp & Andouille Sausage Gumbo

Submitted by Joel Ehrlich
Yields 8 Servings

Ingredients:
1/2 Cup Vegetable Oil
1/2 Cup All-Purpose Flour
4 Stalks Celery, chopped coarse
2 Medium Onions, chopped coarse
2 Green Bell Peppers; seeded, cored & chopped
2 Bay Leaves
2 tsp Salt
2 tsp Dried Oregano, crumble
1/2 tsp Cayenne
40 oz Clam Juice
28 oz Canned Plum Tomatoes, drained & chopped
1 lb Smoked Andouille Sausage, halved lengthwise & cut into 1/4" slices
1/2 lb Okra, trimmed & cut crosswise into 1/4" slices
2 lb Uncooked Medium Shrimp, peeled & de-veined
Cooked Long Grain Rice
2 Tomatoes, seeded & diced

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cooking Instructions
Heat the oil in a large Dutch oven over high heat until it is almost smoking.
Add the flour and cook, stirring, until dark reddish brown (about 8 minutes).
Add the celery, onions and bell peppers at once.
Cook 5 minutes, stirring and scraping the bottom of the pan.
Mix in the bay leaves, salt, oregano and cayenne.
Add the clam juice, canned plum tomatoes and sausage.
Boil 15 minutes.
Add the okra.
Reduce heat.
Simmer until the okra is tender (about 15 minutes).
Add the shrimp.
Simmer until just cooked through (about 3 minutes).
Mound rice in each soup bowl.
Ladle the gumbo over.
Serve sprinkled with diced tomato.

[IndianaJones]

48. now there's an exception. nt.

[WilliamPitt]

49. Amen.

:toast:

Jazz.
Blues.
Rock & Roll.

The South.

You're welcome.

[Sugar Smack]

50. Hunter-F-Thompson.

:toast:

[argyl]

143. Jazz, Blues,Rock and Roll. BFD. The North gave us show tunes and doo wop.

[devilgrrl]

52. Shouldn't James Dickey be held responsible for some of those stereotypes?

Have you read 'Deliverance'? A lot of the characterizations you are upset about most likely originate from that book.

Not to nip-pick. :hide:

P.S. Thanks for mentioning George Washington Cable, he was a great man - way ahead of his time. DUer's should check him out.

[Dawggie]

111. If you remember, the "city folks" in Deliverance were Southermers

as well.

[devilgrrl]

114. That may well be but he exagerated the hillbilly's...

I've had discussions with Georgians that live near the area the book takes place and they stated that the characterizations were hurtful and untrue.

[Bluebear]

53. At the same time then, kindly encourage your brethren & sistren to leave "liberal New England" alone

You know, us gay-marriage loving, spiritually dark, Volvo-driving, latte-sipping elites that are painted as being "out of touch" from "real" America. Thank you in advance. :hi:

[jumptheshadow]

76. So true

I'm sick of the nitwits in ALL the red states who lap up our New York tax dollars while ramming their dumb, personally invasive "morality" and xenophobia down our throats. I lived and traveled in the South for a while, and am well aware of the quality people who exist down there. But I am dog tired of the minority of cretinous jerks who wallow in their ignorance while aggressively trying to limit the personal freedom and conscientious lives of people thousands of miles away from them. The Northeast, with New York as its hub of international trade, would be better off on its own.

[Sugar Smack]

81. Have some New Orleans Creole Eggnog:

INGREDIENTS
30 eggs
1 cup white sugar
1 cup light brown sugar
1 cup dark brown sugar
1 tablespoon allspice
1 teaspoon ground mace
1 teaspoon ground ginger
1 teaspoon ground cloves
1 tablespoon freshly ground nutmeg
1 tablespoon freshly ground cinnamon stick
1/2 cup pure vanilla extract
1 teaspoon Angostura bitters
1 cup bourbon or blended whiskey
1 (750 milliliter) bottle dark rum
1 (750 milliliter) bottle almond-flavored liqueur, such as Amaretto
1 (750 milliliter) bottle brandy
6 quarts heavy cream


DIRECTIONS
Beat the eggs with the white sugar, and light and dark brown sugars in a stand mixer until completely blended. Strain the mixture through a fine mesh sieve into a bowl. Stir in the allspice, mace, ginger, cloves, nutmeg, cinnamon, and vanilla.
Pour the bitters, bourbon, rum, almond-flavored liqueur, and brandy into a large, 4 gallon bowl or food safe bucket. Stir in the egg mixture until thoroughly blended. Pour in the heavy cream and continue stirring. Divide into smaller containers and refrigerate. Shake or stir the containers 2 to 4 times each day for 30 days.


:toast:

[jumptheshadow]

94. That was the best possible response to my rant

N.O. is one of the few places in that pack of tax-sucking ticks down there that deserves NY's overly generous dollars.

Thanks for the recipe and the sense of humor -- and my cup is raised to you!

[Sugar Smack]

98. I Love NO.

And let's not be dissing my home state, NC. It's where our next president comes from, I'm guessing. Proste to you, my friend. :applause: :toast: I'm trying right now to find one of my favorite pics. It's the Charlotte Bush protest wherein a bunch of people are holding a sign that says, "WELCOME TO CHARLOTTE, ASSHOLE". :rofl:

[MilesColtrane]

127. .

self deleted

[Dawggie]

109. Actually, Bluebear, I would fit your description more than not.

(I drive a Kia). I am a Southerner and I am not alone down here.

[wellst0nev0ter]

54. Sorry, Just Don't Feel The Love.

Lived a year in Athens, Georgia - just some random place in the South.

It's a year I can ever get back.

[Enthusiast]

55. While there are pockets of

While there are pockets of ignorance throughout the country, the South is very hard to beat. I know first hand about S.E. Ohio, it is as full of redneck racist meth usin' deer poachin' wife beatin' George Bush lovin' ignoramusses as can be found anywhere. The South, however, has a real advantage in the number of Biblical literalists and other serial dummies. The average Southerner will defend their Civil War position and suggest it was The War of Northern Aggression.

[Heidi]

57. I'm sorry, but I don't believe it's true that the "average Southerner will defend

their Civil War position and suggest it was The War of Northern Aggression." Yes, there are some in the South who feel that way, but I don't believe that position is held by the "average" Southerner.

[Enthusiast]

68. Heidi, sorry but

"I'm sorry, but I don't believe it's true that the "average Southerner will defend
their Civil War position and suggest it was The War of Northern Aggression." Yes, there are some in the South who feel that way, but I don't believe that position is held by the "average" Southerner."

Heidi, sorry but Southern public schools teach Civil War History in exactly that manner. It is institutionalized.

[Heidi]

71. That's not how I was taught.

I was born in Arkansas, raised in Oklahoma and lived for a few months in Kentucky when I was a kid. We were taught in school that the Civil War was about, among other things, the north's position that secession wouldn't be permitted. Most of my Civil War history was taught to me in public schools, seventh through 12th grades, and an American history course at university. I don't recall a single educator ever teaching us that the burning issues of slavery and secession were defensible state's rights. (Both of my parents were public school teachers, by the way, and my grandfather was an elementary school principal.)

Maybe I just went to the right public schools. :shrug:

[ceile]

112. LOL!

I needed a good laugh to start my day on DU. May want to actually attend a "southern" public school before making such a broad statement. What a load of crap.

[colinmom71]

69. Born and raised in south Georgia...

And I have to admit that I'd *never* heard that phrase outside of my history class. And haven't heard it since, excepting that I think it was mentioned during Ken Burns' "The Civil War" series...

Considering the reply above, I want to clarify that the reference in my history class was to reference how southerners viewed the war as it was occurring.... And it was not the teacher's personal view nor was it a ritualistic, institutionalized aspect of our school's history curriculum design....

[Heidi]

72. Exactly.

During my education, I did hear teachers use the term "northern aggression" to describe how many Southerners felt _at the time_. But I've never heard a contemporary Southerner use that term to describe the Civil War era.

[ThePowerofWill]

90. Same for me as you and Hedi.

Never was taught in school that the war was a war of Northern agression. We were taught that is how it was viewed at the time.

[Enthusiast]

116. Okay, fair enough..............

My apologies. I was only going by what my teacher relatives told me after moving to "The South". I don't much like stereotypes, either.

[wellst0nev0ter]

142. Did My Stint In Georgia History Classes Myself

To be fair, the civil war part isn't stereotypically revisionist, but it did seem to paper over the racial aspects of the Civil War, and I'll let you people take three guesses on how many days we spent on the Civil Rights Movement.

[mwb970]

58. Is the problem southern or just rural in general?

As soon as I drive out of Columbus I am immediately surrounded by religious billboards, W'04 bumper stickers, and other signs that I have crossed over to the Dark Side. I used to like driving through the countryside with its scenic fields and farmhouses, but now I look at those houses and think, "I wonder what kind of wacko lives in there." It's sad.

BTW, I'm talking about politics here. The very same country people who swoon mindlessly for bush are often much more friendly and hospitable than the typical city dweller. And boy, some of them really know how to eat! Just don't bring up politics. Or religion.

[NashVegas]

83. Rural / Sub-Rural People Are Losing Any Control of Their Communities

When you drive those backroads through small towns with plenty of undeveloped land that's heading for Wal-Martville, it's hard not to notice the contrast in architecture to older, more settled, areas of the country.

Newly developed towns have wall-to-wall corporate-brand architecture in their business clusters. It's crazy to think that doesn't steal a little bit of a community's soul. Where else they gonna get it back if they feel helpless?

[Greylyn58]

61. Thanks for posting this

I was born in North Carolina and while I haven't live my whole life in this state--my Dad was a career Marine, so we moved some--I've lived most of my life here.

Like you, I'm tired of hearing the South dumped on, however I know that NC is not a blue state, but neither is it an all red state. In the last election, there were large areas of blue, Charlotte where I live, went strongly for Kerry/Edwards.

I personally think this election will be different in a lot of ways as there are so many people, tired of the war, hurting economically, fed up with the government as a whole and they want something different.

Regardless of what the media "Talking Heads" say, I think this next election will be a real eye opener.

[Sugar Smack]

64. OMG-

GO EDWARDS! I'm in CH. :toast: That was a GREAT post.

[NoBorders]

63. I moved from CA to NC

You definitely have your hicks in rural NC, but you know what, you have those in rural Calif as well. As an IT professional, I have worked with many smart people who also have heavy southern accents. As in, they work in the 'Ah tee' industry. It has helped to dismantle some of my southern stereotypes. In fact I can now say some of my best friends are Southerners. :-) Actually one of my good friends here is of asian Indian descent (his parents are Indian), but he was born and raised here and has a southern accent. That tripped me out at first.

[cboy4]

65. I am a Californian who went to school at U of Tennessee

Haha.

Talk about culture shock.

And when I moved there, more people asked me what church I went to than why a California boy was going to school in Knoxville.

And geez do Southerners apparently love fireworks. Huge fireworks warehouse-kinda locations all over the place, with big signs.

What a trip.

But I did live there for four important years of my life, and I got used to the accent and "y'all," and the biscuit and gravy breakfast selection at the drive-thru (WTF), and I loved the sweet tea and it was so strange to drive down my street and have strangers wave to me.

And best of all, I made some wonderful friends who still live in East Tennessee.

So now, I'm kinda defensive of the South and Southerners.

Are there some dummys? Oh yea.

But there are some stupid people in California also.

on edit...typo

[Lochloosa]

70. Your list is not complete without Ava included.

http://www.peacetakescourage.com/page-home.htm

[Didereaux]

74. BUT the Bubbas outnumber the Joes 2-1 and there lies the rub ( I am in TX).

[HamdenRice]

78. W.E.B. du Bois was not from the South; he was from Massachusetts nt

[Aristus]

79. Stop flying the Confederate flag.

It's one thing to want to form your own country so that you can continue to own other human beings. But to continue to display the symbol of the failed effort... Get your fellow Southerners to take down the flag. You'll probably see the negative references diminish at least a little.


BTW, I was born and raised in Texas, if it helps. B-)

[Sugar Smack]

84. Dude, it's "GIT" your fellow Southerners...

anyway, we have a lot of upside-down US flags flappin' round these parts.:P

[Aristus]

131. Sorry, Sugar Smack...

Okay, GIT yor feller Southerners... :P

You caught me. I don't say "git" much anymore, or "howdy" (not since a now EX-girlfriend made fun of me for saying it), but I will say "y'all" until I die. It's hardwired into the mainframe. B-)

[MilesColtrane]

91. Ahem.

You DO know that the Texas state flag flew over a country that held slaves, don't you? The very same flag that flies over it's State House today.

In fact Texas abandoned it's status as a nation to join the Confederacy.

And, there was that little thing about still holding slaves until two and a half years after the Emancipation Proclamation.

I'm not defending those who fly the Confederate flag. I'm just saying glass houses...stones...

[Aristus]

130. I'm not defending Texas, either. There's a reason why I don't live there anymore.

Actually, there are thousands of reasons why I don't live there anymore, but I digress...

But I do want to point out a slight inaccuracy in your reply: Texas did not abandon its status as a sovereign nation in order to join the Confederacy. They joined the U.S.A. Texas became a state in 1845, but did not secede and join the Confederacy until 1861.

All of my ancestors who fought in the Civil War fought for the Confederacy. That doesn't mean I have to stand by their beliefs. All those Southerners who defend dispaying the flag by saying it's part of their "heritage'...well, it's my ancestral heritage, as well. A heritage of hatred, racism and white supremacy. So I feel no need to support it by flying the slave flag or defending those who do. Also, the state flag of any particular Southern state is not at issue here, except for the states that incorporated the slave flag into their own as a symbol of white supramacist defiance during Reconstruction. Texas' flag does not contain the slave flag. Nor does South Carolina, which has a very pretty flag: a moon and a palmetto on a field of midnight blue.

I've had fellow Southerners tell me they like flying the flag because "I'm kind of a rebel." I want to tell them: "Can't you fly the American flag? At least that was a successful rebellion". B-)

[Thothmes]

140. Ahem

you do know that the United States flag flew over a country that held slaves, don't you. The very same flag that flies over it Capitol building today.
In fact Texas was admitted to the Union as a state in 1845, sixteen years before the birth of the Confederacy. Remember the Emancipation Proclamation applied only to those states that were in rebellion. It did not apply to Maryland, Kentucky or Missouri. Naturally slavery remained legal in Texas until the Civil War ended and Texas was occupied by Union troops, about two and a half years after the signing of the Emancipation Proclamation.

[Little Star]

80. I was born in New Haven CT same year as *! YUK!!!

My whole extended family moved from GA to CT right before I was born (for work). They had lived down south all their lives and I was conceived in the south! They never lost their love of the south and I have always felt I belonged to the south. Now, gimme my darned fat back gravy and biscuits!!!!! Gonna retire in TN somewhere near those beautiful Smoky Mountains. My people are mountain people from the NC side to the GA side of those Blue Ridge Beauties. I love southern hospitality and they have some of the best food anywhere on earth. I'll have me some southern fried chicken and collard greens please! Thinking of the south makes me yearn for the food that I was raised on.

[blindpig]

82. The criticism of the South is largely based on class

Just as the South's literary accomplishments are ignored so too it's upper class, the movers and shakers who are the opinion makers and king makers. Nope, it's always poor old Bubba who gets the shit end of the stick around here. Bubba talks funny, his ride is a beater, he likes his guns for self defense, sport, survival, he ain't got no education, people might dance around in his church, he is beyond the pall. The latte drinkers love feeling superior to Bubba, it improves their self worth, which is all they really care about, the compass of their politics. But I'll tell you what, if you're broke down on the road outside of Asheville you're much more likely to have Bubba stop and help than some Prius with NPR on the radio.

Consider the numbers on election results, there really is no monolith, all percentages are reachable. The Republican hold is tenuous, which is why they must continually barrage the public with their lies and propaganda, just to make the nut. Meanwhile the Democrats do nothing, except for perhaps Edwards who has raised the issue of class. He may not be sincere, but I thank him for his much needed rhetoric.

[Zookeeper]

139. Bingo. It is primarily about class....

Many in the upper-middle and upper-classes look down on chronically poor and under-educated communities, but poor whites are the only group they feel safe in openly ridiculing. (It doesn't mean they don't also look down on poor people of color; they just don't admit it.)

(Hi Blindpig! How is your little menagerie?)

:hi:

[Swamp Rat]

85. We are not all buffoons, but MANY of us are inbred, racist, bigoted retards.

Helow unkle-dad. :D

[Sugar Smack]

87. *pfffffft* You just made me spray sugar-with-a-lil-tea out'ma mouth!

:spray:

[Swamp Rat]

durp durp durp!

y'all cum bak, yaheah!




:hi: :hug:

[Sugar Smack]

92. If you did that at work on a PostIt

:loveya: :yourock: . Oh, btw, :loveya: :yourock: if you didn't.

[Sugar Smack]

117. Wait, is that your face reflected in the monitor of that pic?

Is it? If so, will you marry me? :loveya:

[Swamp Rat]

128. Sho' thang cuz!

:loveya: :loveya:
keyp it in da famly!

[Sugar Smack]

129. OMG!!! LOLOLOLOL!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :patriot:

[NashVegas]

86. Hiya Dawggie

I lived 31 years in the Northeast, 13 in the South and there's no way I want to go back up North. Yankee stoicism sucks!

That said, the local Yahoo at the county board of elections put the personal data - including SS numbers - of every registered voter in the county. There was a break in at the office on Christmas eve, which wasn't discovered by the security guard for 24 hours. The news broke last Friday. In the Northeast, both of these guys would have been terminated already. Here, we will wait for them to resign. If they choose not to, their supporters will go to work to see they don't have to.

It's a very double-edged sword. It's one thing to allow people to fuck up. It's another when that fuck-up's mistakes affect other people. "Heck of a job, Brownie."

If you're looking for a good Southern movie, you should rent the comedy Randy and the Mob if you can find it.

[Breeze54]

89. The new Gov. of Mass. did the same thing and he's still in office.

Stupidity is everywhere. ;) (My sister says it's his naive' staff)

I grew up in the northeast and I lived in the southwest for 14 years
and I ran back to MA as soon as I got the chance, 14 years ago! :hi:

[4_TN_TITANS]

93. Ronald Serpas is "Big Daddy"?

Nashville's real police chief isn't even a born and bred Southerner.

Personally, I don't mind the stereotype of ignorance - it never hurts to be underestimated right from the start. Many people have been bitten by assuming the accent = uneducated.

[NashVegas]

107. Actually He's From NOLA

via Seattle, IIRC.

Fate Thomas was more of a Big Daddy type though, yes?

Anyway, I don't watch L & O or CSI or any of those shows. The scripts are godawful.

[southerncrone]

122. Yep, that underestimated thing can work wonders. Also the

Southern Belle innocent ruse. I've used that on more than one occasion to gain access to otherwise unaccessible venues! :evilgrin:

But we're just a bunch of dumbass hillbillies here in TN, & don't you forget it! :dunce:
(Hell, how could you, they won't let us forget it!)

[Steven_S]

99. Fictional characters....

You cite some fictional characters and rant about being stereotyped. Even as a child I could tell that Sgt Shultz and Col Klink didn't represent all Germans.

Jackie Gleason didn't represent guys from Brooklyn, nor did Archie Bunker guys from Queens.

Only an imbecile would watch fictional characters and then think that all people from that group are represented by that particular character.

They are FICTIONAL CHARACTERS.

Peace.

[southerncrone]

132. For many in other regions of the country, this is the only example of Southerners

they ever see. It's a subliminal thing.

Just like seeing a scary movie, you know it isn't real, but the "what if" sensation stays with you.

[THUNDER HANDS]

101. I spent a year in Texas one weekend

the flying insects there chased me off.

[LanternWaste]

104. I choose to laugh...

Living in TX for over thirty years, I've gotten to the point where I really don't even notice Southern Bashing anymore and to be honest, I really don't think it exists as much as is given credit for.

Heck, I hear just as many jokes about people from California and NYC and see it as such-- just jokes all (well... most) in good humor.

Sure there's going to be a person or two with a feigned look of indignation and a pocket full of faux-egalitarianism if a colloquialism is used. The response up thread re: the poster not responding to any person in a positive way using "ya'll" most likely thinks nothing of a northerner or east-coaster using the word "lookit", which to us Texans sounds just as ignorant I imagine.

I would pre-suppose that the strata of every region and culture in the U.S. has it's own oddities-- one no more nor no less "odd" than any other. Ans sure, we all use them in a humorous fashion at one time or another.

But then again, Texas is a solid red-state and I am both bemused and depressed by that as any other TX progressive and wish it wasn't to be. So I can either cry or laugh at our sheer, collective stupidity. I choose to laugh.

[Sugar Smack]

115. You're gold.

:hi: I have to say I think Jeff Foxworthy is a bit of a dumbass, though. I'd much rather listen to you, instead.

[Thirtieschild]

105. A good friend from Russia describes herself as "a Southern girl"

She was raised in St. Petersburg (Russia not Florida) so didn't grow up with prejudices for or against the South. She moved to Atlanta in 1990, when she was in her late-30s, has lived in Connecticut the last couple of years. She says Southerners are warm and caring, Yankees (her word) are cold and distant. She has a high-profile job in CT, says not one person she works with has invited her to their home, even asked her where she grew up in Russia, says they don't want to hear another point of view. She says it was the opposite in Atlanta, people went out of their way to get to know her. Says when she goes back to Atlanta she feels embraced. She's a liberal Democrat, by the way.

[Sugar Smack]

110. Hi.

If you're a liberal in the rural south, you're probably working twice as hard as those in blue cities to get your point across. Tell your friend I said, "hey"!:hi:

[NutmegYankee]

144. Cultural difference.

I grew up down south as well.

People in CT seem cold and distant at first, but once they get to know you, they make strong friendships. The trust factor is culturally different, with far more trust being required up here. As for meeting new people, parties and few beers strip that distance issue right away.

Once I got to know my co-workers, they opened up just like I was used to down south. The only difference was it took 6 months here, versus 6 minutes down there. Friends introducing you to others is more important, since that adds a bit of trust as well.

One important tip is to let yourself blend into the local culture, since people here are less distant to those they see as "Locals". Failing to integrate into the local customs will get you treated like a complete outsider, much like Hispanic farmworkers are treated down that way.

[Le Taz Hot]

119. I'm from Fresno.

Home of FreeRepublic. I feel your pain.

[Madam Mossfern]

120. Excuuuuuuuuuse me

The Sopranos are from Essex County New JERSEY.
Harumph!

[fudge stripe cookays]

121. Um...F. Scott Fitzgerald was from Minnesota.

He married Zelda, who was from Alabama.

[Zynx]

123. My biggest problem with the South in general is Southern Fried Religion.

That's not to say everyone in the south is a religious whacko. That's not to say fundies don't exist elsewhere because I know first hand a bunch live down the road from me in Wisconsin, but there is an overwhelming preponderance of it in the South.

Furthermore, historically speaking it is difficult to argue with the fact that the South has contributed to more than its fair share of national problems.

[roody]

136. Don't forget Maya Angelou and Tina Turner. eom

[October]

137. Peace

But, this issue comes up way too often around here.

There is country music on the radio all the time, commercials abound with southern accents/songs/actors, country music awards (seemingly every month), Hannah Montana (who is always making Northerners seem like bigots), Bush's LOVE of everything country and/or western, and for some reason it sounds like every senator is from the south -- not to mention most of our presidents (and presidential candidates) for the past 20-30 years or more.

It's like the Christians screaming everyone's anti-Christmas, while CHURCHES, decorated trees, beribboned wreaths and Santa abound!

Enough!

Peace, already.

/end of rant

[treestar]

141. Very few people don't belong to some group that is stereotyped

Or condemned as a group. Just ask the Muslims, the lawyers, any group - it's amazing we do it, because we should identify - we hate it directed at whatever group we belong to, yet still do it. I confess to being guilty of stereotyping "fundies." Not Christians, just that loud mouthed Pat Robertson fundie type. Maybe a few of them really are decent, sincere people.

I went to school in the South and found some stereotyping of "Yankees" there.

[Skittles]

145. sorry, as a GI brat / vet I lived all over

the overwhelming amount of sheer ignorance I have ever seen has been in the SOUTH