Kenya in turmoil after election

[cali]

Dozens die in Kenya after Kibaki's election 'win'
By Mike Pflanz in Nairobi and Richard Holt
Last Updated: 10:01am GMT 31/12/2007



Dozens of people have been killed in clashes between police and protesters across Kenya after the unpopular sitting president was sworn into power following an election widely seen as rigged.

Analysis: Kenya could be facing its greatest crisis
A morgue owner in the western city of Kisumu said that 46 bodies had been brought in overnight after riots erupted following the announcement that Mwai Kibaki, 76, had been returned to power.


The violence raises concerns that Kenya, long seen as the stable hub of East Africa, could fall itself into chaos


Most of the dead appeared to have been shot.

The opposition leader Raila Odinga immediately rejected the result, adding: "There is no difference between him and Idi Amin and other military dictators who have seized power through the barrel of the gun."

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/12/31/wkenya331.xml

[and-justice-for-all]

1. Afganistan, Iraq, Palestine., Dafur, Samolia..

now Kenya...the world seems to be coming apart at the seems.

[JCMach1]

2. FYI, also see

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2560294

I have a friend in Nairobi giving me info

[riverdeep]

3. The news report I saw said there was going to be violence regardless of who won.

The voting was close, there was grumbling from both sides that the other was cheating, and the place was ready to explode. What I don't get, why do rioters usually hit their own neighborhoods? The violence is random and doesn't do a damn thing. I saw in Pakistan people pissed because they had to stand in line waiting for gas at the remaining gas station, because they had destroyed the others!

They say the leader determines the culture of an organization. If the US is the leader of the free world, and we say 'I'm getting mine, get out of the way!' is our motto, freedom over the world has a harder row to hoe.

[Warren Stupidity]

4. Uh, no, this election has been stolen by the ruling party.

All the initial reports indicated a sweeping win for Odinga, then the ballot counting ground to a halt. Now suddenly Odinga has 'lost', there is a media blackout, rumors are that Odinga has been arrested, and there is rioting in the streets.

"why do rioters usually hit their own neighborhoods" generally they do not initially hit their own neighborhoods. But you seem to be against the people refusing to accept authoritarian outrages both in Pakistan and Kenya. What would you have them do instead? Huddle passively by the cold flicker of their tvs and computer monitors as we do? At least in Kenya, when elections are blatently stolen, the people their still care enough to take to the streets and refuse to accept the results.

[riverdeep]

5. I'll admit, the news report didn't go into great depth.

It gave the apparently mistaken impression that the vote counting was legitimate and genuinely close.

As for rioting being beneficial, I can't leave out the possibility, certainly. There could be situations where your back is so against the wall and that's the best option. And actually, the difference between their response and ours, was striking to me. I am not advocating American passivity. I think mass demonstrations, along with whatever legal wrangling needs to be done, show commitment without the unnecessary, random destruction that results from rioting, however. The Ukraine protests demonstrates that can work.

Rioting usually just gives the autocrats an excuse to justify their heavy-handedness. And I fail to see how burning down someone's home or business at random is doing anything but letting off steam. The next day, though, someone who probably had nothing to do with their oppression has nowhere to live or means of livelihood.

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. The EU observers' interim report says the counting was rigged

See eg http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7166590.stm

[Warren Stupidity]

7. Odinga is attempting to organize a nonviolent mass protest

and the response from what now must be considered the Kibaki dictatorship has been to warn that military action will be taken against such a protest, and to impose a blockade of the huge Kibera section of Nairobi. The people are literally trapped in their neighborhoods.

You have characterized the violence in Kenya as rioters looting their neighborhoods. While there is likely some of that going on, it is also clear that a lot of the violence is between protesters and the police and armed forces, and that the state is using lethal force against protesters.

"The Ukraine protests demonstrates that can work" only if the police and armed forces are unwilling to commit a massacre, or you have a unique situation such as the Gandhian independence movement in India that transcends even that sort of affront. When protests are met with lethal force, criticizing the protesters for rioting while saying nothing about the state's use of lethal force is a dubious position to take. Characterizing this as simply 'rioting' is playing into the official narrative.