CSPAN 3 Foreign Relations Cmte Markup--Biden Dodd going at it!

[Norquist Nemesis]

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cs_cspan3_wm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS3

:popcorn:

Discussing resolution on Iraq.

[in_cog_ni_to]

1. Going at it with each other? n/t

[Norquist Nemesis]

8. Yes

I read the listings wrong and tuned into the middle of it to catch the end of the dust up. Dodd sort of threw his hands up and Biden kept doing his 100 words to your one.
LOL!

[in_cog_ni_to]

13. Biden likes to talk.

:boring:

[cspanlovr]

2. I'm watching. See Biden laughing? At Sununu.

[cspanlovr]

5. Kerry up now. Asking for a reality check.

[shadowknows69]

3. i saw that. Biden needs to finish whatever his last statement was

he's about to body slam Sunnunu

[shadowknows69]

4. Kerry's up now

n/t

[halobeam]

6. Oh God.....Go Kerry !!!!!!!!!

[originalpckelly]

9. He's amazing!

:wow:

[originalpckelly]

7. HOLY FUCKING CRAP!

:popcorn:

[shadowknows69]

10. fucker's got me in tears

If he'd had this fire in 2004 against the war.

[Cameron27]

11. Kerry's very good,

he's making it personal.

[shadowknows69]

12. he's putting it all on the table

n/t

[halobeam]

15. Yes he is. The reality.... he intimately knows the reality of war.

These people better LISTEN.

[shadowknows69]

16. Holy shit Kerry is schooling the Senate

Where were you in 2004 Mr. Kerry. Oh yeah it was stolen anyway.

[Cameron27]

20. You know,

I wish he'd always speak like this. He's very moving, and very impressive.

[blm]

37. Corpmedia edits him down shamelessly.

.

[blm]

23. He's going after every one of the senators who know its a mistake but are willing

to let more troops die instead of doing the RIGHT thing and get them out. He's prodding them and getting assenting facial reactions for the camera. - Good.

He'll vote for this resolution as a first step (doesn't like nonbinding) but will follow up with another serious withdrawal effort with timetable - a BINDING vote.

[TayTay]

33. Notes on his talk

INCOMPLETE: because it was typed in real-time. Corrections appreciated.

Mentions his common background with Sen. Hagel and Sen. Webb.

Mentions his protest in '71 and his disagreement with Webb over this. BTW, I was right (in nice language, but I was right.) Iraqi veterans have come in and there is a commonality.

Mentions Brian Freeman in Iraq. (The Civil Affairs officer who was killed 1/20.) Says Freeman went home on leave, saw his 15 month old daughter and 4 year old son. Then he went back to IRaq and was killed.

Question from 1971 is relevent today. How do you ask a man to be the last to die for a mistake?

Is it a mistake? How many here believe that? How many believe it is a problem of troop numbers? There are not enough troops (available) to pacify Iraq then what are we doing there?

Mentions Sen. Webb's son in Iraq and praises the troops as committed and capable. But the Senate is responsible for what we voted on. Now we have to get this right. We don't need a debate, we need to get it right for those troops. If you believe that this pres is not getting it right, then we have an obligation to get it right.

We have an obligation to get this right. We need to take an action. We need to send that message. It is a first step. Then come back to do more.

Almost every judgement we have been given for the last month and the last 3 years has been wrong. Do we ignore that and tell the troops to just go out there, no matter what. I am confident the PRes plan will not work unless the IRaqis make the decision to resolve the politics.

This is about the history of the region that goes back 1500 years. Goes over the history. This is the why of the civil war. It rests in that long ago history. (Damn, he is good.) We are trying to step into the middle of that.

This is wrong-headed. Rummy said we would not put our troops in the middle of a civil war, but we are. We want success, we have been trying for it for 3 years. Where is the diplomatic effort? Where is the special envoy to create the leverage to make this happen?

We have to get real here colleagues. I had a Res last year to set a date. (Similar to what the ISG wanted.) Changed the Res. to support a combined re-authorization on the war. (See Warner, John comments last Nov.)

Ahh, in your face. (Love this.) Okay, the timetable has problems and protests. Okay, then let's get it straight as to what exactly the Congress is on the record as supporting.

Kerry then spells out what his Res. would require. (Too fast to type.) Emotional plea to listen to those who have opposed the war, including the families.

Makes the sane point that the troop levels have varied. 2,000 is not going to make much of a difference.

ISG said in Rec. 21, if the IRaq govt does not make achievements in their progress on self-govt, then we (The US)should reduce troop level.

This is our moment and our time. We need to be serious about it.

[Roxy66]

14. Did you guys catch Hagel.?..they just showed a sound bite on MSNBC

WOW...he was spitting fire!!

[Norquist Nemesis]

17. Damn! Missed it!

Hopefully I can catch it again later tonight. What did he say?

[Roxy66]

21. I just missed it and turned on Kerry...this is intense!

[sabra]

26. Hagel was on fire...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x25866

[Norquist Nemesis]

29. Thanks!

Sorry, I missed your thread earlier. :hi:

[TayTay]

38. Hagel was brilliant

The actual combat vets on the committee today know what this is about. It shows.

By all means, catch the replay of this later on C-Span.

Wow!

[in_cog_ni_to]

18. Who are the witnesses today? I haven't seen any. So far, just speeches by the Senators.

Are there witnesses today?:) Or is this just a committee meeting?

[Norquist Nemesis]

22. It's a markup session; no witnesses

Sometimes the markups are much more fun that hearings with witnesses. Less formal and time structured. :)

[in_cog_ni_to]

25. Ah. COOL! Yes, I enjoy listening to this stuff. It's very entertaining. n/t

[Roxy66]

24. I dont' know.....maybe they are just meeting

[blm]

35. They are there to try and convince each OTHER. Hagel and Kerry were tough

and Kerry appealed to senators on a personal level about how they know in their hearts and heads that they have to not just debate but get it RIGHT so troops don't keep dying for a mistake.

[Norquist Nemesis]

19. Fly-by Diplomacy by the Secretary of State

:rofl:

Good one, Senator Kerry!

[Tatiana]

27. What is Kerry saying?

Based on the comments here, it sounds good.

[in_cog_ni_to]

28. Kerry is VERY, VERY passionate about this! He's doing an EXCELLENT job!

:thumbsup:

[in_cog_ni_to]

30. Norm Coleman is up. n/t

[Norquist Nemesis]

31. ugh! Norm Coleman up now

blah blah blah

[butterfly77]

32. I just tuned in ...

what was he saying...

[Norquist Nemesis]

39. First he was for it, then he was against it, now he can't make up his mind

:eyes:

Bush's "don't undermine the troops and support the terraiststs" got to him.

[ms liberty]

34. Wow. Kerry was great just now!

Brutally, painfully blunt. Plainspoken.

Now we've got Norm Coleman, who's seemed lately to want to move towards the center. Worried about his job, maybe?

[in_cog_ni_to]

36. Coleman thinks we can win in Iraq.

:crazy: What an idiot.

[Roxy66]

40. Biden is slapping the punk down...."Nothing has worked"

[Roxy66]

41. Hagel chimming in and taking him to school!!

[Norquist Nemesis]

42. Oh, no. He thinks we can be "successful"!

Nevermind that Bush's record for "success" up to now has been Lifetime Loser!

[butterfly77]

43. Coleman is trying to have it both ways...

Iraq is a mess but we can't pull the plug ...Hagel seems to be on his ass

[Roxy66]

44. Sen. Boxer up now!!

[Norquist Nemesis]

45. Darnit! Wish she was speaking from her heart

which she is outstanding at instead of reading a statement. Still...she's good! :thumbsup:

[Roxy66]

47. Don't worry...she's just warming up!!

[halobeam]

48. she just did....she directed the number of troop deaths

as the highest loss of troops (over 1,000) in Anbar province alone... to Coleman. Nice serve Barbara!

[in_cog_ni_to]

46. I LOVE Barbara Boxer!

She's awesome. "Do not let the president escalate the troops."

[beachmom]

49. I caught Kerry, and he was amazing.

Not only was his speech about reality, heartbreaking, and angry. He even gave a history lesson of the Sunni/Shia split.

Wow, I want the transcript and the video. Definitely.

[LSK]

51. damn, I just missed him

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

56. Coleman just asked to change his transcript.

[in_cog_ni_to]

50. "Thanks to Senator Byrd, most of us carry around this copy of the Constitution.

READ the Constitution! CONGRESS has the power to declare war!" Boxer. She's so wonderful.

[Norquist Nemesis]

54. "This was not supposed to be a Rubberstamp Congress!"

Also on Lugar's comments (which I missed)..."We're just supposed to remain quiet until we all agree? I REJECT THAT!!!" :applause:

[underpants]

52. Norm Coleman is shrinking back into his suit like Galloway is there or something

Boxer just read him the riot act about how she didn't vote for this war and that she is grateful that she didn't everytime she has to write a letter to someone who lost a loved one and (she says directly to Norm Coleman who C-Span puts on camera) MOST OF THEM DIE IN ANBAR!

Coleman had said that everyone he talked to in Anbar province thought they were winning and could win. Biden directly said that no one that HE had talked to in Anbar from Sgt. to General thought that the Bush policies were working.

Coleman just made himself look like a complete ass. I have noticed him popping up and trying to look more statesmanlike, he is up for re-election in 2008 you know.

[Cameron27]

53. How many amendments are there?

[Norquist Nemesis]

57. At least as many as there are Senators on the cmte

times two or three.

[halobeam]

66. I don't understand

why the Dems don't all get together and vote for each point they want placed on an amendment, debate the ones they differ on, then vote on those, and offer one solid amendment.

Wouldn't that be better? Why aren't they getting this together... ?? Obviously, I don't understand how amendments work, but is there anything that would stop them from doing this? It seems way more productive and cohesive to me, instead of having a hundred ammendments....

[Fleshdancer]

55. I hope MN boots Coleman out

I can't stand that guy or his fake teeth.

[in_cog_ni_to]

62. Franken is thinking about running against him. Coleman's toast if he does.

:)

[Fleshdancer]

71. I'm still pissed at how Coleman won in the first place

and I remember all too well how he compared himself to Wellstone...I wrote him a scathing letter that day. I would love to see him lose to Franken. :)

[in_cog_ni_to]

90. Me too. He had to steal that election. Wellstone was ahead in the polls. You can't tell me

that all those Wellstone supporters all of a sudden decided to vote for a RWer like Coleman! They are at opposite ends of the political spectrum fercryingoutloud! The memorial service didn't change Wellstone votes to Coleman votes either. That was hogwash.

[LSK]

58. Feingold up

:popcorn:

[LSK]

63. he is tongue lashing them about the IWR

[Norquist Nemesis]

59. Feingold up!

:woohoo:

[Norquist Nemesis]

61. 'We're taking action, but it's not strong enough'

'We did not rise to the occasion in 2002.'

[Oreo]

60. This needs to be recommended

I still think there should be sticky House and Senate threads somehow so people can check in.

Feingold up now

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

65. He is very powerfully speaking~ as usual!

[Cameron27]

64. Whoa, GO RUSS!!

[Blackhatjack]

67. Feingold Calls Them Out.... Not Using Our Constitutional Power & Authority...n/t

[butterfly77]

74. Feingold was right ...

they are doing what they did when they were in power. Feingold said they are forgetting about the closed door meetings that they were kept out of. He said the war would not have gone this far if they had been able to speak. GO Feingold!

[WinkyDink]

68. "This is the time to stop the needless deaths in Iraq. NOT a time for 'nuancing'."

Go, Russ! Tell it like it IS and OUGHT TO BE!

Oooh, Biden takes a bit of umbrage at Russ's "implication" that they've been dragging their feet. Too bad, Joe!

[bdamomma]

69. that march coming up January 27th is coming up right on time

the people should not let this thing continue, POWER IN NUMBERS. Bush is asking for giving another chance? WTF, he thinks he's playing with toy soldiers, again, HOW MANY MORE MUST DIE FOR LIES!!

thanks everyone for the play by play, geez, don't these senators get it yet, we have dictatorship I wish someone would just say so.

[LSK]

70. Biden gets defensive, claims he is moving on things

and he is not afraid of the President.

[bdamomma]

72. did someone actually say that to Biden?

[halobeam]

73. Feingold, if I'm correct

edit to add: He was stating they need to act NOW. Within that statement, didn't want to get into the "nuances" of this, which delays things... (paraphrasing, maybe even poorly, but trying my best)...

IMO, he's (Feingold) is right. Everyday more lives are lost... talk is good, but do it through the night if thats what it takes, make a decision and ACT.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

75. I think Feingold was directing that comment to the

rubberstamper republicans. Biden mistook his meaning.

[Roxy66]

76. Voinovich (R) making a great statement

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

77. Voinovich to Bush...you are not listening! I become emotional when I here

Republicans like Voinovich and Hagel are speaking truth to power.

[The Witch]

78. thanks for posting this, i'm glad i tuned in

nice to hear voinovich making some sense.

[halobeam]

79. Menendez up

Americans elected this Congress.... representative democracy and they must do their jobs. Pres. doesn't listen to Americans.

Americans don't want this war of choice, noting "not a war of neccessity"

Bush is more the same, stay the course PLUS more troops...

Everything based on Maliki doing all the right things, and Generals saying though by the end of the day, they don't know what Maliki will do.

Many expert witnesses say the plan will not work.

12,000 troop escalation last time increased violence.

[WinkyDink]

82. He is BLAMING and HARANGUING the Iraqis! This is a PERNICIOUS

argument: that the Iraqi gov't had better get ITS act together.

[bdamomma]

84. but remember several weeks ago even Maliki wanted out

does anyone think that Maliki can put this right? these are religious factions, with a number of issues with each other. Even Maliki's life is in danger.

[bdamomma]

80. don't you wish we could just bang down the door and talk

to these Senators, where are the demonstrators.

These Senators better do right by the American People, because we all know those troops are going into Iran, if god forbid that happens, these Senators better put a stop to this right now, didn't the American people speak on November 7th.

[Roxy66]

81. That remends me of that 2004 Eminem song

"We gunna fight"!!!

[Norquist Nemesis]

83. There's Corker picking at the fruit salad again

He keeps repeating "on page 73 of the Iraq Study Group they could support a troop surge." Well, don't stop there Senator! Put it in context for us why don't you?

[Norquist Nemesis]

85. Won't support resolution

surprise surprise :sarcasm:

[Norquist Nemesis]

87. Says won't vote for it "because it is non-binding"

and because he has to face the troops. :wtf:

[in_cog_ni_to]

91. I'm sure he would vote for it if it was binding.

:eyes: What an excuse.

[Norquist Nemesis]

93. No doubt!! LOL!

Times like this, they should give him a binding resolution along the lines of:

"We, the 110th Congress of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim that we support and stand behind the brave men and women of the Armed Services. Further, be it resolved that we are taking action to replace their Commander in Chief and bring sanity back to the office."


How 'bout them apples Senator Corker! :evilgrin:

[TornadoTN]

94. Honestly, he picked that line from Harold Ford, Jr.

Harold must be his advisor, because they trumpet the same lines constantly.

As someone who worked for the Ford campaign in a managerial capacity, I heard Harold say that to so many Dems and families that wanted an end to this war. He would quickly change the subject, but not before, "I just can't go against it, I have to face the troops".

Sure, Ford would have been preferable to this laughing stock but at the end of the day, their rhetoric is identical.

[Cameron27]

89. Yep, and Biden's calling him on it.

[LSK]

86. Corker wont support it because its non-binding

:wtf:

[Norquist Nemesis]

88. hey!

JINX!

[Norquist Nemesis]

92. 20 minute (or so) recess in order to go vote

Whew! This has been fun!!!

[Mind_your_head]

95. They're BACK!! Are you going to start a new thread NN??? n/t

[Norquist Nemesis]

96. Here ya go! -- Thread 2 -- edited

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=27145&mesg_id=27145

oops! :blush:

[Mind_your_head]

97. ehm, that's a link to THIS thread.

Are you going to start a new one? Or are y'all talking about it somewhere else already that I'm missing? :shrug:

[Mind_your_head]

98. Thank You NN n/t

[halobeam]

99. Here's thread 2

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=27145&mesg_id=27205