How does a stateless criminal organization spread "totalitarianism"?

[Unperson]

They would then be free to impose their will and spread their totalitarian ideology.

The definition of totalitarianism is that one is projecting power from an already established state. That power is projected inward in the form of absolute control over all aspects of the state. How does a stateless terrorist group accomplish this? More useless propaganda.

[Warpy]

1. Well, it's working on us, isn't it?

Rich fascists have been using fear to get us to accept severe limitations on our freedom to travel and our civil rights have been eroded for decades, first by fear of drugs and now by fear of deranged terrorists on the other side of the planet.

[Unperson]

3. We have seen the enemy and it is us.

or something like that.

[Warren DeMontague]

12. See, that's why I should read the thread before I respond.

You said exactly what I was trying to, but you did it much more clearly. :patriot:

[Marie26]

2. Thank you!

That made no sense at all. Total projection on Bush's part.

Totalitarianism

"Form of government that subordinates all aspects of its citizens' lives to the authority of the state, with a single charismatic leader as the ultimate authority. The term was coined in the early 1920s by Benito Mussolini, but totalitarianism has existed throughout history throughout the world (e.g., Qin dynasty China). It is distinguished from dictatorship and authoritarianism by its supplanting of all political institutions and all old legal and social traditions with new ones to meet the state's needs, which are usually highly focused. Large-scale, organized violence may be legitimized. The police operate without the constraint of laws and regulations. Where pursuit of the state's goal is the only ideological foundation for such a government, achievement of the goal can never be acknowledged. Hannah Arendt's Origins of Totalitarianism (1951) is the standard work on the subject."

http://www.britannica.com/

Charisma aside, who does this remind you of?

[John Gauger]

4. Well, that's almost possible.

It's true that Osama bin Laden wants to create a pan-Arab state with himself as Caliph, so he can control all of the oil wealth. I can only assume that that would be a totalitarian state. But nobody else is really interested in that. The major problem with that statement is that al Qaeda has almost no presence in Iraq and are just about universally hated. There is no way that al Qaeda will control Iraq after we leave. "Impose their will"? Yeah, if there's one thing that's true about Iraqis, it's that they'll peacefully tolerate meddling by a hated foreign power. No chance that al Qaeda might get blown up or killed execution style if they come to Iraq.

[Unperson]

7. Source?

"Osama bin Laden wants to create a pan-Arab state with himself as Caliph, so he can control all the oil wealth"?

[John Gauger]

8. I read that in Greg Palast's latest book.

Armed Madhouse. It was in the chapter about oil. He cited Osama's own website. I was going to check it out myself to confirm, but I figured the government might be watching and I would end up in Gitmo. UBL supposedly made the comment in 1998, when oil prices were at an all-time low. The royal family of Saudi Arabia owed UBL's family billions of dollars for construction work in Mecca and elsewhere. He announced his intentions to overthrow the Saudi government and place himself as heir to Muhammed (I'm not clear as to whether he thinks he is has been chosen for this post by God or if he just thinks it belongs to anyone who is strong enough to take it. Either way, that's what he's after.) His plan next included expelling the Americans from Saudi soil, exterminating the Shiites, and then eliminating Israel. All three of those groups challenge his control of the region's oil. I don't suppose too many other al Qaeda members are interested in this, though. I think they're just in it because they want to destroy America. They join al Qaeda because they are supposedly the biggest danger to us. I guess that could be wrong, but that's the most plausible explaination I've heard so far.

[Justitia]

5. It doesn't, it can't. * was banking on people not knowing what the word means.

For those who do (who number more than he realizes, I'm sure), it sounded totally stupid.

Kinda like "fascist commie", for example.

He tries to employ emotional rhetoric, no matter the actual definition, as long as it sounds real bad!

Yes, this man graduated from both Yale and Harvard, egads.

[mmonk]

6. Through the imagination of the bush administration.

[originalpckelly]

9. Yes, I agree, if anything it's just plain old tyranny...

but dumbfuck is too stupid to know the difference. We've got to get all the evildoers anyhow, why not just lump 'em together?

[LongTomH]

10. "A stateless criminal organization?"

When I saw the thread title, I thought you were talking about the Bush Family! Come to think of it, they are spreading totalitarianism!

[Warren DeMontague]

11. Lets see- by playing the role of an ill-defined boogeyman, said alleged nebulous stateless

criminal organizations (or, even, the idea of them) can provide a continuing, escalating, raison d'etre for the military-industrial complexes of certain large nations- while simultaneously allowing the governments of those countries to stoke hysterical fear in their populations, justifying ever-increasing encroachments upon their civil liberties... and thus, an increase in "totalitarianism".

Simple.

[damntexdem]

13. Easy: they get the Supreme Court to select their representative as President.

Then they start tearing down the country's defenses against totalitarianism.