Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Bush is not an idiot. He is simply following the plan laid out by PNAC.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 01:04 PM
Original message
Bush is not an idiot. He is simply following the plan laid out by PNAC.
What is victory? Why won't Bush listen to anyone? Why can't he understand adding 20K more troops won't make a difference? Why does he want to send more of our young men and women into a meat grinder?

I hear questions like these from people all the time, they just don't get why Bush is such an idiot. It does seem that Bush is operating with recklessness and stupidity and doesn't have the capacity to understand that Iraq is not winnable and his "go-it-alone" decisions will only dig us in deeper and cause more loss of life.

Trying to answer the questions under the premise that Bush Administration truly wants to help the Iraqis have a working Democracy and live in freedom is folly - one can only conclude Bush and the rest of them ARE a bunch of incompetent idiots. But incompetence is a convenient crutch. They are far from incompetent and we must remember what the real unspoken goals of the Bush Administration were when they invaded Iraq and that those goals haven't changed.

Regardless of all the reasons given, the Bush Administration invaded Iraq to destabilize it and seize its resources, giving us permanence in the middle east. From there, they plan to use Iraq as a base to further spread destabilization into other countries like Iran and Syria. Chaos in the middle east is the MO of the Bush Administration and under the direction of the neocons, the United States is nothing more than invaders and thieves who care little about loss of life, be it Americans, Iraqis or anyone else. PNAC designed the plan years ago and anyone who thinks it's been scrapped is dead wrong. With them, the end always justifies the means, no matter how ugly it gets. This sort of thinking feeds into Bush's ego, which is probably why he continues to listen to them and often talks about his legacy being judged years from now. He believes he will go down in history as a great conquerer.

Makes it a bit easier to answer the questions knowing their plan:

What is victory? Victory is defined as expansion of the war which will ultimately lead to dominance of the middle east. Their version of victory only applies to them - does not apply to our military or any of us.

Why won't Bush listen to anyone? He is listening - to the neocons at the American Enterprise Institute.

Why can't he understand adding 20K more troops won't make a difference? He does understand; in fact, what he's hoping for is an escalation to have an excuse to go into Iran. Withdrawing our troops isn't part of the plan.

Why does he want to send more of our young men and women into a meat grinder? Because the end justifies the means, and the lives of our troops means nothing to him. They are insignificant, as are all of us.

And that's why when Bush talked of reducing our dependence on foreign oil by 20% over the next 10 years, Cheney sat behind him openly smirking. Even he was struck by the absurdity, knowing full well they have no intention of such a thing.









Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. True story.
Maybe not an idiot, but definitely a traitor.

Could be both ya' know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. You are right, absolutely. But he is stupid to think that he can
pull it off.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yes, that's where his ego comes into play.
He only thinks of "me! me! me!" - nothing more. That's why he actually believes all the fairy tales fed to him by the AEI nuts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
37. It's the only goal he has so he has no reason to change tactics.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. Nailed it. K&R. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. "The Incompetence Theory".
So many times I've been told "* is trying to do his best, it's just that he's incompetent".

Well, how many times can somebody f*ck up on such a large scale before you come to the conclusion that he's either a criminal or a lunatic?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Bush is the "lunatic"...Cheney is the "criminal"
I had a letter to the editor published the other day talking about PNAC.

I think once PNAC becomes common knowledge...it will fall apart.

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070122/OPINION/701220316/-1/OPINION03

:patriot:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. I choose Idiot........ eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
neoblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. Okay, so more malicious than just incompetence...
but he can still be an idiot... (and any intelligence required is provided by others (including the 'evil mastermind' Dick))
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
7. Bush is an idiot following an idiotic plan.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Well -
unfortunately, the plan is chugging right along and there just doesn't seem to be a way to stop it. Much more at work here than just idiocy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
10.  True
Many talk about investigations and impeachment , the time this will take Iran will be attacked then how will this turn out , not good I suspect .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. Between you and Tom Joad, below --- worry, worry
They know no limits when it comes to mayhem and destruction across the Muslim world. bush throws Iran into all conversations he has with his followers. This is one big worry since we are dealing with an idiot. After all, he controls, or, in other words, is the Decider.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
31.  I do worry
It seems the more they push back at bush the more likely this will speed the attack up .

I keep hearing more and more about these plans to attack and now the people in the know are pretty close to being on the same page .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
11. A civil war in Iraq is not a bad thing, in the eyes of the neocons.
Let's look at one neocon warrior, dan pipes

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/3490

This from the hero of Bush (key bush advisor) and extremist groups like AIPAC and the ADL (i know, it used to be a wonderful civil rights organization, but now it shills for the Bush administration... it let out a collective cry when Bolton when forced to leave) .

Pipes also sought to arm Saddam when he was at war with Iran.
http://tomjoad.org/pipes.htm
(goal: get as many Arabs and Muslims killed as possible)

Those of us who oppose genocide should keep organizing to stop the war.

We also need to organize against extremism.

http://www.stopaipac.org/

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
irislake Donating Member (967 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
12. Bush and Cheney
are winning big time. Lotsa money from war and the prospect of getting all that yummy Iraqi oil. Don't they need the entire country to be utterly destroyed? They are laffing all the way to the bank and from there to --- Paraguay? Or where is it Bush has bought thousands of acres of land sitting on a huge supply of water -- which will soon be far more valuable than oil. It's all about profits for corporate criminals.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. Most people cannot handle the truth of your words.
Edited on Wed Jan-24-07 02:26 PM by BushDespiser12
Therefore, you are marginalized.

However, history will validate these actions are indeed an intended path laid out by the Neocons, and that we stopped being a democracy many decades ago. Iran is next unless *hithead is removed from office.

The enormity of the crimes committed to have us "accept" this future scenario reduce the believability that we have been duped. It is far too depressing. We are much more inclined to suffer smaller indignities and refuse to complete the "big" picture.

Your words are far too true sparosnare. The population of this country, as in "We the people", is nothing more than static in the line.

x(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
14. This is the truth
And still plowing along with their plan regardless of the November elections.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. Matter of fact (?) this may hasten their Iranian plans
You know, before we put the screws to bush, inquisitions and then impeachment.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grassfed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
15. Big Media to Bush re his Legacy:
"We got your back."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
16. True, but he's* still an idiot. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
17. When Bush speaks, he's always referring to the business of the country
as "I will" or "I decided". I = PNAC.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. PNAC is the probem, but, bush is an idiot
He beleives anything his few buddies tell him. We all know the type, arrogant, stupid, money and name carrying him through life ---- what the hell does bush know? I doubt he knows what PNAC's plan for the world is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 04:48 AM
Response to Reply #18
33. Indeed
Yes he's following their plan, but he's still an idiot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
20. stupid like a fox....eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Bingo.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #22
35. if you think about it
this is exactly the same setup used by Reagan. Act like a tender old fool and nobobdy suspects the Imperialistic ambitions of you and your friends.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
24. not mutually exclusive
He his an idiot AND following the plan laid out by PNAC
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I think I agree. PNAC actually NEEDED a narcissistic imbecile as their front-man.
That way, it would all look like a mistake.

FDD (Foundation for Defense of Democracies) is apparently the new PNAC:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3120835
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
26. Thank you, thank you! Exactly what I've been screaming!
Total war! That's what victory really means to them!
All based on a new Pearl Harbor event that was 9/11/01!
:yourock:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Everyone should read...
"911 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out"
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
28. K&R...
#19!
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
29. Perhaps they are also taking notes from the Chinese.
Last night CBC news did a report on pollution in China. Pollution is so bad in some cities cancer and stroke rates are soaring, for days on end the sun is completely blotted out. Hundreds and thousands of people are adversely affected but the gov't regards the victims as the cost of business.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
freedomfries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
30. you've nailed it sparosnare! K & R
:patriot:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
32. The two are not mutually exlusive.
Especially given how monumentally idiotic the PNAC "plan" is. He's an idiot AND he's executing the PNAC plan. Only an idiot would.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GreenZoneLT Donating Member (805 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 05:00 AM
Response to Original message
34. Nonsense. He is, too, stupid.
You're right about his fuel-economy proposal, though; that's a joke. Oh, and note that he said he wanted to reduce consumption of "gasoline," not oil. All that means is switching to electric cars and plug-in hybrids, and using the oil to generate electricity.

There are worse things than living in a pre-war "stable" Iraq, btw. A full-scale military invasion and an undersized, incompetent occupation was obviously the wrong solution, but there's no way oil companies could enslave and exploit Iraqis worse than Saddam did.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
36. The reason he is willing to stretch the military to the breaking point ....
is that this will allow him to get support for the draft. Once
they have the military draft as a tool, they can expand the military
to as large as they wish.

All the "stupid" things Bush is doing are specifically designed to
bring about a specific, and evil, result.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Dec 27th 2024, 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC