Message from the US Government to people who are self-employed: FUCK YOU.

[Redstone]

People will get six hundred bucks from the Feds ONLY if they "receive a regular paycheck."

But if you work for yourself, FUCK YOU, no matter how much you pay in taxes every year; you don't DESERVE to benefit from any "economic stimulus package."

How nice. You start a business, take all the risks, pay your own health insurance premiums (like, say, the $2,000 per month we pay), NEVER have even the CHANCE of having ANY safety net like unemployment, pay an extra 7-1/2 percent of your income each year for Social Security (the Self-Employment Tax), and on and on.

This is no surprise. We self-employed people are very well used to hearing "FUCK YOU" from all the various levels of government, so at least we're not going to be shocked at hearing it from the Federal Government yet again.

Redstone

[ClassWarrior]

1. But I thought the Rape-Publicans were the champions of small business...

Another vast swath of the public raped by the Party of Nixon again.

NGU.

[Redstone]

4. Oh, no, they've never been champions of SMALL businesses; you see,

small businesses aren't able to give the Repubs the big bucks they want for fundraisers, even if the owners are Republicans (which, just from what I've seen, most of them are not).

The Repubs ONLY go where the money (that's available to them) is. Which is only LARGE businesses.

Redstone

[wtmusic]

16. If Republicans supported small business they would enforce

antitrust.

It ain't happenin', because real competition is harder to manipulate.

Two classes make everything a whole lot easier.

[Kittycat]

2. Do you have a link to that? I don't think that's right.

My understanding is that it's tied to those that pay federal income taxes. As long as you're paying in, you get back.

[Redstone]

6. that's what I read in the newspaper this morning, and heard on the radio this afternoon.

Redstone

[rzemanfl]

3. That message is only for the self-employed? I thought that was

their message to everyone except the rich and super rich. Next time I think our government has sent me a fuck you message, I will send it on to you. I still haven't figured out whether this is real money or an advance anyway. If it is real money, then I am sorry you are getting screwed. If it is smoke and mirrors as I suspect, then be glad you missed out on it.

[Redstone]

8. Well, yes. You're absolutely right; excellent response.

Redstone

[genie_weenie]

5. Well, technically everything in the US (citizens included)

belongs to the US Government so I'm not sure why you're upset?

[InvisibleTouch]

7. Self-employed here too...

...and I wasn't expecting to get an "economic stimulus check." Thanks for the confirmation, though I didn't have my hopes up to begin with. Not that I would have turned down a few hundred $$s, but part of being self-employed is being reliant on oneself, so I'm used to that.

[OneGrassRoot]

20. Yeah. Me, too. Thanks for the info, Redstone. n/t

[Lone_Star_Dem]

9. That doesn't make any sense. You pay more taxes if you're self-employed.

How could they somehow separate where a persons income comes from so long as it's declared and taxed?

[rasputin1952]

10. "Small businesses" and self employed always get the hard

end of the poking stick.

These are precisely the people that are always being told they are the "backbone of the economy", and yet, leave it to congress to forget about anyone who is a subcontractor, self employed, small business owner, or any of the other vertebrae that make up that "spine"...the only thing congress, and especially R's in congress want to do is break that spine...:grr:

[Deja Q]

11. What else is new? Entrepreneurs are loathed by most making the policies...

:(

Sadly, they do deserve. They put into it like most everyone else... Double. The self-employed pay taxes as employee AND as owner.

Never mind the laws seem to encourage people to work for corporations and not BE entrepreneurs...

And Dems are hardly innocent in this decision to keep them out of the stimulus plan...

Still, all I know is, from CNN mney article today, anyone making over $75k or whatever isn't getting the money either.

Most people self-employed would have to make a LOT to stay inclined to be their own business...

http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/24/news/economy/stimulus_package/index.htm?postversion=2008012417

Still, $75k single/$150k married self-employed business... If I was self-employed and my NET income, after taxes, was less than $40k, I would be less inclined to bother... corporations pay out that much, albeit before taxes, and the extra shit one has to do as a self-proprietorship isn't worth the time...


(Edited: Subject line, clarification)

[NoPasaran]

12. Meh

Massa can keep the crumbs from his table.

[Big Blue Marble]

13. My reading is the rebates are based on income level.

Where did you get this info? What I read said that everyone who reported less than $75000 for singles and $150,000 for households.
These are adjusted gross incomes. So it would seem that the rebates are based on level of income reported not paychecks. Do you
have have a link for what you heard?

[Redstone]

14. Hartford Courant and NPR. Neither said anything about income levels.

Redstone

[Big Blue Marble]

18. I just finished reading the NYT article.

It said the determinate is income level. I hope so both my husband and I are self-employed.
I want to be able to do my part for economic stimulation.

[sandnsea]

25. It fades out after $100,000+

I don't think retired, low income, unemployed or self employed will get anything. It's strictly an income tax rebate for those who are employed and will pay taxes. The professional investor class.

[juajen]

15. I don't think SS recipients will get anything either. I didn't see them even mentioned.

Our cola rates were ridiculous this year. I ending up getting a ten dollar increase after drug benefits and medicare were taken out, and, of course, these increased. Hubbie's was quite a bit more, because his benefit is greater, but, still.

[Mike03]

17. This is why I gave up the pointless, culturally sanctioned, Wild Goose Chase.

First I was employed.

Then I was self-employed.

And then, fortunately, I was non-employed, and this is when I truly understood freedom and happiness. But the way things are going nowadays, that could change at any moment and I could be working at Wal-Mart. I was just very lucky. Otherwise, I probably would still be employed or would long ago have cut my own throat.

[Mike03]

19. Kick and Rec.

As usual, Redstone is dead-ass right.

[wishlist]

21. I read that anyone who is a tax filer will qualify, not just employees n/t

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

22. The government does NOTHING to help the self-employed

much as they pretend to love "small business" as an engine of the economy.

They can't/won't even help you with getting affordable health care for yourself and your employees. If you are a small business person with a small group plan that is hit with one or more catstrophic illnesses (as ANY plan would be, given probability) then watch your plan put you out of business as it spirals into the stratosphere. Or you have to make choices like replacing every full time employee with benefits with 2 part- timers with no benefits. NOT because you want to, but because that is the choice you have to make to stay afloat and support yourself and whatever remaining crucial staff you have.

I have been self-employed, I have owned 2 businesses with payrolls of approximately 30 people and I know wherof I speak.

That's why I always laugh bitterly when Republicans (or Democrats) talk about any "pro-business" stance. It is only pro-buiness if it relates to BIG BUSINESS. Small business be damned.

People just don't know unless they have lived the experience of being a small business owner.

[Redstone]

27. You've been here, it's clear. That's how you know so well. Excellent post.

Redstone

[madrchsod]

23. but corporations get theirs

my wife and i had our own business for over 18 years and finally gave up because of taxes and health care costs. we did a very good business but we always had to have someone work outside the business for insurance on the 5 of us..
i`d really like to get back into business, we have all the tools and suppliers, but the recession has sapped all our resources to start the business back up.

[fascisthunter]

24. The WHole Damn Package is a Ponzi Scheme

We are bankrupting this country by enriching corporate America.

"Everybody, go shopping!!!!!!" - George Bush


Fucking criminal and Americans are dumb!

[girl gone mad]

26. No surprise, but..

It's just a short term loan, anyhow.

This government does whatever it can to squeeze small business and self-employed. We need better lobbyists, I guess.

[pitohui]

28. yeah well i've been telling kids for over a decade DON'T go into business for yourself

if you are completely unemployable for whatever reason, then you have no choice but to be self-employed which is pretty much my situation, but it is just plain stupid to take the economic risk of bankruptcy (most start-ups fail) and put yourself in a situation where you can't provide your family with a decent income and health insurance

at least you can pay the $2K a month for health insurance, most self employeds i know would not be able to eat if they bought health insurance, it's simply not an option at today's prices

a self employed friend of mine had catastrophic health insurance, approaching 50, gets ONE test for possible colon cancer (benign) and he has lost his health insurance forever and can't buy any more

it's too late past a certain age, age discrimination is real and by going down the path of self-employment we made a terrible mistake and apparently somehow made ourselves unemployable, best thing to do is share our stories so others won't make a like mistake

don't stand by silent when people repeat lies like "do what you love and the money will follow," a) if there was money in it, most of the time a big company would already be doing it, and b) if the money doesn't follow, you and your family are just plain screwed

not getting some once in a blue moon hand out from the gov't is the least of the problems of the self-employed, it isn't like it's a problem that will come up every day

[Redstone]

29. Excellent food for thought from you, as usual. And you even made one point I hadn't thought of,

even though I think of it frequently: No matter how sucessful you may be in owning your own business, if for ANY reason it starts to falter when you're in your fifties, you're truly screwed.

Because no matter your skills or experience, you'll drop right into that "too old to hire" group.

Good perspective from you, pitohui, and I've seen that valuable perspective from you more than once. Thank you again for your valuable contribution to this thread.

Redstone

[pitohui]

31. thank you for your kind words

i wish i'd known then what i know now...

[Redstone]

32. Christ, don't we ALL wish that?

Redstone

[Elwood P Dowd]

36. I've been self-employed for 32 years.

My insurance company booted me a few years ago when I had some claims, so I'm now un-insurable. Have to drive 60 miles to the VA if I need care. They took my money for 15 years, but when I had some problems it was goodbye!

[lala_rawraw]

30. yes, but

do they offer a step by step guide to achieving this "fuck you" capability on one's own? :toast:

[Redstone]

33. Of course not. And it's not even like I need the money; it's a matter of fairness.

Last time we got one of those bullshit "refunds," we gave it to the Food Bank, and we'd do the same again.

What annoys me is that I pay more Federal income taxes each year than HP or Boeing or Microsoft do (because they all pay nothing), but the Government ASSUMES that if you won a business you're making buckets of money, hi ho.

Most years we do OK. Some years we don't. Our business got hammered (to the tune of a 90% drop in billing) for 18 months after 9/11.

Did the government give a fuck about us then? No. Did we rely on them to help us? No, we didn't. We just struggled through it.

You do this long enough (18 years for us), you get used to the concept that there is NO help available during the tough times. You just do what you do during ALL times, good or bad, which is to rely on yourself, and yourself only.

Redstone

[Blue_In_AK]

34. Is that true?

I thought they were giving the money to all taxpayers. I've been self-employed since 2001, and I faithfully send in my 3 or 4 thousand dollars every year, even though I've had to raid my IRA to do it. I'm going to be really pissed off if we self-employed people get left out of this. And what about my husband who gets a pension.

If what you're saying is true ... well, I can't believe they would be so discriminatory. Somebody? Anybody?

[Redstone]

35. You have to remember, this is at heart just another desperate ploy to gain VOTES.

And I'm kind of surprised nobody else on DU has picked up on that. (If someone has, and I didn't see the thread, I apologize.)

ANY candidate the Pubs nominate is likely to get crushed by ANY candidate the Dems nominate.

So...it's a last, desperate, watered-down-Rovian move: the Repubs want to be able to say to Joe Voter in November: "Hey, remember us Repubs? We sont you some MONEY nine months ago!"

Yes?

Restone

[Blue_In_AK]

37. Yes, I'm sure you're correct.

They're always so transparent.

[girl gone mad]

39. Yes, it's a ploy to gain votes..

I did start a thread praising Edwards for being against the voter bribe scheme for that very reason, thought it didn't get much traction.

[nonconformist]

38. According to NPR, it's based on income only, and businesses get an additional cut

Who would be eligible for a rebate?

Under the current deal, taxpayers earning less than $75,000 and couples earning less than $150,000 in adjusted gross income for the year would receive a rebate check. To be eligible for the income tax rebate, taxpayers would had to have earned at least $3,000 in 2007.

<snip>

What kind of tax cuts would businesses get?

The package includes tens of billions in tax cuts for corporations.

It would allow all businesses to immediately write off 50 percent of the purchase cost of new plants and other equipment. In addition, small businesses would be permitted to write off other equipment purchases.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18391644