On Thanking God

[alcibiades_mystery]

Yes, I had to weigh in.

First, I am an out-and-out atheist. Have been for years, maybe forever. I was "raised" Catholic, but I remember even at a very young age coming home from catechism to hear my father call that stuff "all bullshit." And I kinda believed him, even then. So, that point's settled.

But I don't care if people thank God in a speech. Here's one point that anti-Thankgodders always make: "I'm sure God really cares that YOU won the Super Bowl/ World Series/ Oscar/ Grammy. Yeah, sure!"

This is a stupid point, and people should stop making it. People who do thank God don't really mean that God planned specifically for them to win such-and-such award, so attacking them on that point is unfair, dishonest, or plain stupid. What they mean, even if they don't say it, is that they thank God for the specific configuration of the world such that it was possible for them to achieve. This may have nothing to do with the thanker personally. The thanker is extending gratitude for a WORLD, not an award. And that is meaningful.

Now, like I said, I am an atheist. And, quite frankly, I'll admit to a small measure of contempt for those who aren't atheists. I think they're being foolish, essentially. I still like them. I still think they're wise in other ways. But there's still a small part of me that thinks the God stuff is FOOLISH, just as there's a small part of the believers that thinks - whatever they might say - that Otherbelievers and atheists are foolish (don't bother denying it - you only make yourself look silly).

That said, I think we should all express gratitude for a WORLD from time to time, however we may do it. Believers have it on us on that point - we atheists. Even if we think that the world is this throbbing mass of electrons and forces, when you extend a generalized gratitude for it, you are grounding yourself in it, and acknowledging that it could be otherwise. There need not be an agent at the other end of your gratitude. My God is the God of Spinoza, the immanence of world and its relations. And once in awhile, whether it is when I win an award, or put my daughter to sleep, I want to thank our great, throbbing, glorious relationships in and of it.

Thank "God" for that.

[Lerkfish]

1. very nice post!

[Cabcere]

2. Thank *you*

for such a thoughtful post. :)

[redqueen]

3. Love it!

:thumbsup:

[Connie_Corleone]

4. I'm glad someone finally explained it better than I could.

[TahitiNut]

5. Living in gratitude for an Abundant Universe is (imho) healthy.

Such a perspective transcends questions of theology. :shrug:

[alcibiades_mystery]

6. Indeed

[unpossibles]

7. you pretty much nailed it. That said, I make it a point to literally thank the world

maybe that's why I am fairly optimistic, but I don't know.

But yes, I give thanks to all kinds of things - I've said "thank you, light" for staying green long enough for me to get through it, and I have thanked my food more than a few times as well. I also thank people all the time, although sometimes they seemed confused why I am doing so. I even try to be thankful for the crappy things that have happened as (a) hopefully I will learn from them, and (b) all things good and bad contribute to who we are.

On the one hand, I see no reason to bring God into it at all, being on the agnostic side of atheism. On the other hand, if God is truly omnipresent, then It receives my thanks as well. win-win situation, seems to me.

:)

ps - thank you for the post!

[Jonathan50]

8. Interesting idea...

People who do thank God don't really mean that God planned specifically for them to win such-and-such award, so attacking them on that point is unfair, dishonest, or plain stupid. What they mean, even if they don't say it, is that they thank God for the specific configuration of the world such that it was possible for them to achieve. This may have nothing to do with the thanker personally. The thanker is extending gratitude for a WORLD, not an award. And that is meaningful.

If that were true, wouldn't we hear more losers thank God than we do?

"Success has a thousand fathers, failure is a motherless child"

Matthew 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you

You know as a fellow atheist I was listening carefully to the broadcast memorials and religious services after 9/11/2001 and I heard many, many prayers for the victims, families and practically anyone else remotely connected with the tragedy. I did notice one group conspicuous by it's absence in the prayers though. Despite Jesus the Christ's clear instructions, I heard not one prayer uttered for the souls of the hijackers who so despitefully used us.

[BoneDaddy]

19. You are asking for a level of

spirituality that most people, including Christians, are incapable of given the circumstances. Perhaps the Amish after their little girls were slaughtered demonstrated that level of compassion and understanding, but not many people do.

[tularetom]

9. I think you give some of them too much credit

specifically those jocks who thank jeebus for their success. It's hard for me to believe they are thoughtful enough to think the whole matter through to the extent that they are thanking a higher power for allowing the world to proceed in such a fashion that their team won the sooper bowl or whatever. Many of them are the products of fund-o-mentalist backgrounds where they were taught that jeebus would personally reward them for their faith and belief. And you just know that they believe strongly in an anthropomorphic god - big guy with a beard floating around up in the clouds.

[Arugula Latte]

22. Agreed, tularetom.

I still think it's compltely arrogant and silly to thank god for X award. And I agree that many/most of them think the hovering deity looked down and moved the chess pieces so they'd get their moment of glory.

And it's even more arrogant to say that "god saved me" from the airplane crash/fire/flood -- implying that others were not worthy of being saved for X,Y, or Z reason.

[progressoid]

10. "I'd like to thank God for making all those other people losers"

"God likes me better than you. Nya nya nya!

[jazzjunkysue]

25. "See! I payed my dues to god and WON! he likes ME! Not YOU!"

This is a pathetic, 7th grade ego trip. This is scoring a WIN for THEIR side. And just in case you weren't sure, it's not your side. Ever. It's not ever going to be your side or your turn.

Anyone who "prays" to god to help them win a ball game, or any award is a kindergardner.

Hitler won a few rounds in this world, as did Stalin. Did god like them best, too?

The real spiritualists on these shows state plainly, without reference to metaphysical considerations, that any good work they've done is due to the contributions of others. And that's gratitude.

[JNelson6563]

11. My alternative

I use "Bob" instead of "god" in most of those expressions. I too was raised Catholic and am a complete atheist now. One day with Rugrats on in the background (kids were much younger then) I heard the characters doing a mock trial on the show. It was so funny, Angelica swears in a "witness" with the oath "Do you swear to the the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you Bob?" haha I knew then I'd found a perfect substitute word.

:toast: Julie

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. It's supposed to be a sign of humility.

Apparently, some people are intentionally misinterpreting it as the other way around.

[Arugula Latte]

23. It always comes across as completely arrogant to me. nt

[NoSheep]

13. Nice post. Yes...things get so out of hand at times.

I'm not sure what I am...but I was raised in a world where people say this and it's okay with me. It's their own personal thing. Yes I wish the religious were more tolerant...but I don't think they are strange on all counts! Let em say it.

[Vidar]

14. Well-expressed wisdom. Thank you.

[nashville_brook]

15. nicely put.

gratititude is a wonderful thing. it makes everyone feel a little better and we can use some of that, especially these days. this, from someone who considers herself an "eliminative materialist." not a believer. not an atheist. but think there's some things that have yet to be explained in scientific language. a wait-and-see-er.

[Catfight]

16. I think I'm you. This is exactly my upbringing and I'm right with you.

Awesome post! I have a question, do you believe in the laws of attraction? Have you seen that DVD, "The Secret?" Before I give you my opinion, I'd like to hear if you believe in the laws of attraction. I really can connect to the way you think.

[alcibiades_mystery]

26. I believe in Nietzsche

Forces, active and reactive.

I don't believe in attraction, except at the molecular level. :-)

[lildreamer316]

17. EXACTLY.

Thank you very much.

[The Straight Story]

18. I thank God for YOUR POST :) (nt)

[I Have A Dream]

20. Wonderful post -- thank you for it! Recommended! n/t

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

21. Very Well Said And Some Very Good Points.

[catnhatnh]

24. Jesus Blades....

...I hate agreeing with you....nice post.