Do you believe that Congressman Bill Jefferson is entitled to a seat on Security Committee?

[DemKR]

Poll question: Do you believe that Congressman Bill Jefferson is entitled to a seat on Security Committee?

[pitohui]

1. innocent until proven guilty

it isn't just a good idea, it's the law

[TomInTib]

3. Kinda like OJ, huh?

You gotta be kidding.

See my reply below.

[Egalitariat]

41. Like Scooter Libby?

nm

[Hippo_Tron]

54. Innocent until proven guilty only applies in the courts

Speaker Pelosi is perfectly warranted to take action against him before a conviction.

[TomInTib]

2. I am throwing down right now...

The bastard got caught with large money in his freezer.

All kinds of people are going to jail for this right now.

He is an embarrassment to the Party.

And I will be all too happy to see his ass frog-marched to wherever it needs to be sent.

There was money in his freezer.

Crook....?

Or DumbAss...?

You decide.

[RB TexLa]

6. you decide?

The voters of the second district of Louisiana decided, theirs was the only decision that matters.

[TomInTib]

8. I am not deciding...

the jury will.

As for the voters, read my tag line...

If Jefferson was a 'pub, we would be calling for his scalp on a pole.

[Warren DeMontague]

9. They decided to re-elect him.

That doesn't mean he's entitled to anything besides a seat in congress.

[skipos]

4. I hear a lot of "innocent until proven guilty" stuff about him. Does that apply to Bush too?

[Jesterstear]

5. Innocent until proven guilty, BUT...

He shouldn't be given anything until the investigation is done. Right now he has a scandal hanging over his head and addressing that should be his only concern.

If you think he is entitled to the seat, stop and ask yourself what you'd be saying if it were a Republican in the same situation.

[Warren DeMontague]

7. Is this the guy with the cash in the freezer? Uh, let me ask my magic 8 ball...

"Signs point to no".

Ethics are ethics. We look like hypocrites if we don't draw the line on folks like that: and lord knows that the Republicans--- trying to outlaw the birth control pill in the name of being "pro life" as they run around the planet starting useless, bloody wars--- don't need any competition in the hypocrisy department.

[napi21]

10. I believe in innocent until proven guilty too, but he won't even give

anyonean unbelievable reason why anyone would have that much $$ in his freezer, let alone a believeable one! I'm willing to give him a chance, but damn it...he HAS to give me at least something!!!! I've really thought about this a lot. Why would you do something like that? Ihaven't been able to come up with even ONE reason why you would have $90,000 in your freezer that would be ligit!

I have no problem givinghim a seat on a commission IF he would at leastsay SOMETHING!

[RB TexLa]

11. you think he owes an explanation to you? why?

The people he does answer to gave him 57% of the vote.

[skipos]

12. So being re-elected makes it ok?

Nixon was re-elected too. So what?

[napi21]

14. Because he's a Democrat and his silence is causing most people to believe he is guilty of taking

bribes! THAT damages the Democratic Party, and I am part of that Party!

I slammed the Pugsfor letting people like DeLay and Cunningham, and Foley stayin their positions, and I don't feel any different about any Dem! If he can't at least give some plausable excuse for what has been found, he does NOT deserve a position on any committee!

And if you are going to talk about the people who re-elected him, you must remember it's Louisiana! Certainly not known for their honesty in politics!

[RB TexLa]

16. Oh, so now a slam on my state? ok

I helped provide vans for rides for some of the people who re-elected him, so I guess I can take that personally. Perhaps we in Louisiana should have to get America's permission before we choose who we want to represent us. You all having such lovely ethics and all.

[TomInTib]

18. Don't take it personally, RGB..

It is what it is...

If that asshole took money....

Then he just did it....

That in no way takes away from yours or any others efforts..

Lighten up.

Jefferson is a crook.

And that's just the way it is.

Keep on shining...

[SteveM]

52. Silence is the calling card of the Democratic Party.

That doesn't mean we should be silent. This "innocent until proven guilty" business is about the law, not about the wisest choice for committee assignment. Unless he provides an explanation, he should sit in his own stew without assignment.

[TomInTib]

17. Are you in Jefferson's District?

If so, may I be the first to offer my condolences.

Ninety one thousand dollars in his freezer?

Come on, man, join the Reality Choir..

The guy is on the take..

How could we possibly defend him?

[Jesterstear]

20. OK, so how about this...

Using your logic, the American people re-elected George Bush to the White House. Does that mean he doesn't have to answer for anything he did in his first term?

If you don't apply the same standard to both sides, you're a hypocrite.

[RB TexLa]

40. Are you in America? Are you part of George Bush's "district"?

Sorry, no hypocrisy. Try again.

[Jesterstear]

43. Sorry, "because I say so" doesn't fly

What has happened to this place? People are showing the debate skills of Republicans.

Come back when you gain some maturity and the capability for adult discussion, ok?

[RB TexLa]

45. Where was my hypocrisy?

Jefferson is answerable to the people of his district. Bush is answerable to the people of his "district."

They are answerable to the people who voted on them. Are you going to show me where my supposed hypocrisy is in saying that is who they are answerable to? Or are you not going to try to show me where it is?

[theboss]

24. Christ...under that theory, Tom Delay should still be running the House

Do you honestly think he would lose his district if he ran again?

[bleedingheart]

47. you know Mr. Bad Hair Traficant was re-elected and yet is in prison

apparently the jury didn't use his ability to get re-elected as an indication of innocence cuz the people kept voting for him and most knew he was corrupt...yet they found him such a "nice but corrupt guy"...

[RB TexLa]

53. I haven't said people are not subject to the law

Of course William Jefferson hasn't been charged with a crime.

But after skimming through this thread, I'll just accept what one poster said. We are from Louisiana we are guilty until we prove innocence. Guess that's just part of America's view of us. And to think there are people on DU who actually think America is going to do something for New Orleans and Louisiana.

[bleedingheart]

57. No...I think he needs to explain why he had the money

and he is innocent until proven guilty.

HOWEVER...if he cares about his constituents, his family and the reputation of the Democratic Party in these very chaotic times, he needs to give us an explanation before he can move on.

As for New Orleans and Louisiana, I wish more was being done, I was there in October...it is a National Shame that nothing has been done

[VP505]

51. That may be true

up until he is elected, then he works for ALL Americans and should answer to all!

[TomInTib]

13. Can you imagine?

I know just what I would do if a Federal Agent came into my den with a handful of $90,000 and asked me why he had found this in my garage freezer.

I would have told him that Baby Jesus left it there before He checked out.

[napi21]

15. Awe sh*t, I would have come up with something! How about...

That's where I keep my cash because I just don't trust the banks around here. Or, I was hiding it from my wife because she spends every cent I make if I don't hide it.

SOMETHING!!!!!

[bleedingheart]

56. My uncle's father in law has over $200K in his house hidden in walls

and under mattresses, BUT he was a child of the depression and didn't trust the bank.

They are still finding money in oddball places all around his house and his widow and his kids are afraid to sell the house cuz they don't know where else he may have hid money.

However...that kind of behavior is not normal and not recommended.

[jaysunb]

19. This poll & it's commentary are

a sad reflection on those who somehow think of themselves as liberals, progressives or some combination of the two.

If a person, not even charged with anything, is, to be presumed guilty of some offense. is not enough, disparaging the DEMOCRATS that re-elected him, is beyond comprehension.

I know I'm old and probably considered a bit out of touch, by many here, but, does one not wonder why these allegations remain suspended in air for nearly two years, without any follow up info as to the progress of the supposed investigation ? What can one surmise is the reason Rep. Jefferson's official paperwork has not been returned or litigated before the courts as to the legality of their seizeure in the first place? Have there been charges leveled against those that are alleged to have given him the money ? Who are they ? Do YOU know ?

Could it be possible that the justice dept. of Abugonzales are rigging the dice, in order to keep this cloud of supposed bi-partisan wrong doing, going on to, make good progressives so anxious to please and prove they are " fair minded " that, they give up a bit of their sense of fairness to please and re-assure others ?

Out smarted every time...... :evilfrown:

[Thothmes]

21. Congressman Jefferson

The man has not been convicted of anything and he was re-elected in his district. That said, the the potential charges are very serious. If I was the in the Congressional leadership, I would consider recommend deferring perminate committee assignment pending the outcome of the investigation. While the investigation was in progress I would assign him temporarily to sub-committees that are less visible to the electorate. I do not know, thought, if the rules of the House allow such action.

[Jacobin]

22. He's a crook. He need to go

It doesn't matter whether he is a republic or a democrat, black, white or purple. Crooks in congress need to be gone.

[mikelewis]

25. How do you know he's a crook? Can you point to the trial testimony?

Oh right... I forgot, we just convict people without a trial nowadays...

[Jacobin]

32. Let me put it this way

He had $90,000 in cash in his freezer. he's an embarrassment to my state.

Anyone who wants to play footsie with someone like him just because he has a 'd' behind his name is going to get burned.

i had the same thought about DeLay when he was indicted, BEFORE his trial.. he needed to go.

What was your opinion of whether DeLay should have stayed on in congress BEFORE his trial?

Consistent, or not?

[mikelewis]

36. Delay was indicted... Jefferson has not been... So far... there isn't even an accusation against ...

...him. I don't give a shit if he has a D next to his name but I do care about the rule of law. The law states that he is presumed innocent until proven guilty... According to our Constitution,

"Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behavior, and, with the Concurrence of two-thirds, expel a Member."

and...

"They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place."

... I see no provision in here that limits a Representatives role in Congress due to speculation of a crime especially with no formal charges even being offered. This of course does apply to to vile Mr. Delay. I don't think Delay should have stayed on because I didn't think he should have been in Congress in the first place. My objections to Delay were much broader than his finagling of the redistricting in Texas. Though I was glad they finally "got him" on at least one of his crimes, this issue was sort of akin to busting Capone for tax evasion.

Jefferson may be corrupt... I don't know... I agree the story does sound bad... $90k in the freezer does sound bad but I don't know Jefferson's side of the story and he has not even been indicted in any crime. Until then I will presume he's innocent... I know... call me a radical... but really, what good is Democracy if no one practices it?

[Beer Snob-50]

23. gotta go with the innocent til proven guilty

and i would be saying that for a repub as well as a Democrat. We tend to indict everyone immediatly. Now, the facts in this case make me lean toward guilty (cash in the freezer, does he just deal in cold hard cash?)and if he won't cooperate with officials then maybe he should be presumed guilty, but that is just my humble opinion.

[dogday]

26. Where are the formal charges? Yes they found

money in the freezer, no, they have not even charged him yet... Why won't they even formally charge him with a crime?

[Beer Snob-50]

27. Still building a case?

I have no idea. Innocent til proven otherwise.

[dogday]

28. Well until there are charges brought against him

There is no presumption of anything... I also have to wonder about all the events that took place... I mean they raided his home, his Congressional office and no charges....

You would think the evidence in his home as they report it would be enough to charge him....

:shrug:?????

[Beer Snob-50]

29. you aren't saying that there may be something fishy here?

:wow:

[dogday]

31. I am saying with no formal charges, there is

not a presumption of guilt or innonence... The hard money in the freezer seems like enough to indict on, why the hesitation with this case and allow him to run and win his seat?

[Hippo_Tron]

59. Innocent until proven guilty only applies in the courts

[Horse with no Name]

30. Maybe the answer isn't one you want to hear a Congressman say

Like he doesn't trust our government to take care of us...or he has inside knowledge of an impending bank failure...or inside knowledge of another 911?
He is innocent until proven guilty.
I, too, have a cash stash that isn't in the bank. So if someone finds it then I am guilty?
Of course mine isn't that large...but it is a goodly sum that would probably put me in jail for suspected SOMETHING.

[dkofos]

33. It is only a matter of time before Jefferson himself is behind bars.

One of his aids is in prison now.

[madville]

42. The FBI has him on video tape

It has been reported that the FBI has him on video tape accepting the bribe and that is the money they recovered from his freezer. Don't know what they are waiting on, must have something else up their sleeves, trying to get as much political gain as they can out of it, either way it doesn't look good for Jefferson.

[Norquist Nemesis]

50. That's what I don't get...What are they waiting on?

The longer it drags on, the more they stand to 'taint' any jury pool. :shrug:

[Buzz Clik]

34. You guys act like large sums of cash in freezer is a bad thing.

Think about the symbolism: William Jefferson knows how to freeze spending.

You people can be so negative.

[BlooInBloo]

35. How stupid are all of you? "innocent until proven guilty" only has to do with a court....

... What Congresscritters decide to do with their own is a COMPLETELY different thing. If it hurts Democrats, and the country, to have him on the Security Committee, then fucking take him off.

Sheesh. Weirdos.


EDIT: For fuck's sake - do you geniuses scream "innocent until proven guilty! innocent until proven guilty!" when the accused rapist wants to take your daughter on a weekend getaway?

[Jesterstear]

37. How stupid?

How bad is it that you have to exhibit behavior that we've come to expect from the Republicans, launching numerous personal attacks simply because people have the audacity to believe something different than what you think they should?

[BlooInBloo]

38. I'm not the one advocating keeping $100,000-in-his-refrigerator people running natl security.

[Jesterstear]

39. No, you're just the one

You're just the one tthat is incapable of acting like an adult and instead has to use personal attacks.

[spanone]

44. My question, if he's guilty of freezer cash, why hasn't he been charged?

[DuaneBidoux]

46. He's only a dilimma for us if we let him be. Shut him out solidly and show that we are different...

than Repugs.

[demrabble]

48. He Represents New Orleans.

His constituents in New Orleans need a voice at the table.

The committee assignment in question has oversight over FEMA.

Not putting him on the committee disenfranchises the poor of New Orleans who have already been treated like dirt.

[Hippo_Tron]

58. As someone from New Orleans, I say we deserve it for re-electing this slime

[librechik]

49. I hope he gets it & stays as long as Tom Delay stayed in leadership

until he is proven guilty in a court of law. to quote conservatives, he is an innocent man.

[Hippo_Tron]

55. Bill Jefferson attacked his Democratic opponent for supporting gay marriage

He is entitled to nothing. Frankly I think we should lock him out of caucus meetings. Then maybe he'll join the Republic Party, which is where he belongs.