Churches in partisan politics.

[Jack Sprat]

Knowing that many on this forum are devout attendees of a church of some religion, it would not be my purpose to insult, hurt feeling, etc. I am curious to know how prevalent it currently is to have a pastor, priest, or rabbi mention favoritism or endorsement of Republican candidates. Has it occurred in your own church? Recently? Would it cause you to change churches if it happened and would you not feel insulted as a Democrat to sit silently in your pew having your church leader denigrate your political affiliation? Also, doesn't it seem fair to make churches that wade into political issues forfeit their tax exemption? I realize that some churches are Democrat partisan, as well.

How deep has this well been dredged? :think:

[Joanne98]

1. My boss is the pastor of his own church. He just told his workforce to

read O'Reilly's "Culture Warrior" book. ( was a suggestion) Keep a heads up on this. It could be real trouble in 2008.

[Jack Sprat]

4. Is his church independent or

part of a denomination? Is this boss particularly self-righteous? That must give someone an incredibly, large ego to stand before a crowd and propose divine revelations from God. Wouldn't you think? And to get paid for it? Holy cow.

[theoldman]

2. Most churches are politically partisan.

Some are blatant about it and some are just careful to work around the law. Conservative churches tend to be more political.

[gratuitous]

3. Our congregation wouldn't hire such a pastor

And as for partisan politics, we're heavily in favor of congregants who endorse biblical standbys such as feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, housing the homeless and visiting the sick and imprisoned. We're also in favor of governmental policies and programs that make it easier to do those things. Further, we believe that workers are worth their wage, and that exploitation of the disadvantaged is wrong. We encourage elected officials to act on these principles. We are also a congregation of the one of the three historic peace churches of Christendom (which are, coincidentally I'm sure, also the three smallest denominations) and endorse the view of our denomination's founder that all war is sin.

We decidedly do not endorse or condemn any candidate for public office, but the congregation often discusses the issues of the day and the position various incumbents and challengers take on those issues.

[Jack Sprat]

6. Do you mind revealing this denomination

or is it a local, small denomination that you would prefer not to name? Twas mostly interested in large, well known religions, but glad to hear that you have found something like this.

Do you think that it is possible for you to maintain your same beliefs without a church? Would it change things in any way to be privately spiritual or do you think it would be hard to maintain your belief system independently?

[gratuitous]

8. Church of the Brethren

Teeny, tiny denomination founded in 1708 near Schwarzenau in what is now Germany. Our congregation is not a typical Brethren one, though. Most congregations are far more "conservative" and are less picky than we are about the peace and non-violence stance which has been a hallmark of Brethren polity for nearly 300 years.

Could I maintain my beliefs without a church? I suppose I could, and those beliefs mostly evolved during a time when I wasn't a church member. But belonging to a body of believers helps to amplify my one voice and my own efforts, making them considerably greater than the mere sum of our constituent parts. It also helps in terms of sharing my own thoughts and hearing the thoughts of others, further defining and refining not only a belief system, but the means to put those beliefs into active practice in the larger society.

[Jack Sprat]

9. That is interesting and refreshing

Now can we build this tiny non-violent Church of the Brethren into a world body? :applause:

[JerseygirlCT]

10. Yes, park me here. Issues are definitely discussed, and

our position on them is usually pretty clear -- as you said above.

Candidates? No. Parties? No.

[rug]

5. When Kerry was running the pastor ran an article called "Is Kerry Catholic?" on the parish blog.

Due to his prochoice stance, of course.

I posted a response asking if Francisco Franco was Catholic.

[bumblebee1]

14. I could add one more question?

Were Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos Catholic?

[Igel]

7. I've only ever formally been in one church.

The ministers had little use for repub candidates. They had much less use for dem candidates. The ministers would have undoubtedly voted repub, as would many of the congregation.

On the other hand, the church's official doctrine was that Christ's kingdom had nothing to do with the US, Russia, or any other country or country's politics. So we weren't to vote. Voting didn't get you kicked out, but they frowned upon it.

I was cajoled into attending services at another church once. The ministers (one male, one female) all but said "vote dem!" by the policies they wanted to have implemented. Since there was a political campaign going on, with one candidate in favor of all those issues, the hint was obvious. However, I'd say they didn't do more than hint; one had to interpret the doctrines (etc.) pushed in the right way to get to support for a political candidate--the church I was in before had similar doctrines, but wound up with the opposite interpretation.

[JerseygirlCT]

11. I think you'd find many churches whose own calling melds

nicely with more progressive politics: care for those in need, hungry, homeless, ill.

We are inclusive of all who wish to join us.

I'm fortunate to have a pretty open-minded parish myself, but across the country, my denomination is also what would be called "liberal" by today's political standards.

The Episcopal Church is now at the forefront right of a fight because we've decided that our GLBT members deserve full inclusion -- as members, to marriage, and as priests and bishops.

We don't talk about candidates (well, officially. Of course the congregation talks among itself all the time). But issues do matter, and we'll take a stand on those when our convictions are involved.

[Jack Sprat]

13. Issues should matter to the individual

But I do not like the idea of an institution impressing its' convictions on the institutionalized. Of course, the congregation can always leave or walk out. I really think that churches that get down in politics tarnish God's name. God is not to blame, but I contend that people can get angry with God and the church because the church tries to impress political stances against the welfare of society as a whole. Therefore, the pastors of these particular churches (Falwell types) actually conspire to suppress and repress society in God's name, so as to make many of us unintentional enemies of God. I want to love God and have Him on my side, but if God belongs to Falwell, then I'm on the other side.

[JerseygirlCT]

15. Well, somehow I doubt God belongs to Falwell, although

Falwell belongs to God, whether he behaves like it or not!

I think issues *do* matter, and I have no objection to a church working for a better world. I can't imagine our church not being involved in feeding the hungry or in creating low-cost housing in town -- both *could* be considered political issues, YKWIM? But if not for the churches in town, much good work would not be getting done, and the town council would happily continue to think that hunger and homelessness are not problems here.

It is certainly a tricky thing: we've seen what happens when the religious right uses it's twisted logic to put forward truly odious candidates. Which is why the prohibition against supporting particular candidates makes sense. In the last two elections, they've certainly ignored that -- and who gets in trouble? All Saints, Pasadena, for an anti-war sermon!

I think religious organizations *ought* to feel called to work not against the welfare of society but for it. Of course, the rub is in how they see that. My idea of a better society certainly differs from Falwell's! What constitutes Christianity to him is far different than my way of seeing it!

[PaDem]

12. My extensive experiences.......

I'm in my early 30s and have been a regular church attendee all my life. I've attended and been a member of Baptist Churches, Methodist Churches and one "Mega-Church". My grandfathers were Baptist Pastors, as is one uncle and two cousins. My grandfathers were politically conservative, my aunts, uncles, cousins, parents and siblings are all left of center.

I've been in a fundamentalist Baptist Church that stressed conservatism from the pulpit, though never endorsing candidates. Presently I attend a very Evangelical Methodist Church. The pastor and I have talked politics on many occasions, and she is quite liberal. Our church is very non-political and is not at all issue oriented. You'll never hear sermons about homosexuality or abortion or other hot button cultural issues. There are sermons that decry violence and war, and it's sometimes suggested that it is not a Christian response to "get the battle up" against a group of people that some might disagree with (i.e. the gay community). In general the church is a mix of democrats and republicans, and nobody is confrontational. I like that kind of environment. We are involved in some progressive causes but not progressive politics per se.

[JerseygirlCT]

16. Progressive causes but not progressive politics

That puts it nicely.