Ohio incest law

[ls317]

Ohio families suffer when a stepfather has sex with his adult stepdaughter, even if she gives consent, the state Supreme Court ruled yesterday.

In a 6-1 decision, justices said the state’s antiincest law applies even when there is no blood relationship and both parties are consenting adults.

But the case could be headed to the U.S. Supreme Court based on a ruling four years ago that overturned a Texas ban on gay sex between consenting adults.

The Ohio court rejected arguments from Paul D. Lowe, a 44-year-old former Stark County deputy sheriff, that Ohio’s anti-incest law was intended to apply only in cases involving children.

Lowe was convicted in 2004 of sexual battery for having consensual sex with his then-22-year-old stepdaughter. He was sentenced to 120 days in jail, three years of community control, 250 hours of community service and was designated a sexual offender.

Lowe appealed, saying the state has no right to bar sexual relationships between consenting adults who are not related.

In yesterday’s ruling, authored by Justice Judith Ann Lanzinger, the court said Ohio lawmakers were protecting families generally — and not just specific victims — when they passed the state’s incest law in 1974.

http://www.dispatch.com/news-story.php?story=dispatch/2007/03/01/20070301-A1-04.html

[aikoaiko]

1. weird, but consenting adults should be allowed to be weird -- even gross

[Stargazer99]

9. As one who was threatened with incest by an uncle by marriage

None of you know what you are talking about. The Ohio law is correct. AS a child one does not have the emotional maturity to deal with interfamily sexual relationship. That interfamily relatoinship emotionally continues even into adulthood. Even though this female is an adult the relationship in prior years as a child would not allow a healthy situation. What in the hell are you people thinking of? Or is it you just do not understand the dynamics of the family?

[aikoaiko]

12. You're right, a nonblood relative hitting on a young adult in a family could cause havoc

...but its the choice of an adult trying to have sex with an adult.

Yes, there is a danger of step-parents grooming children.

You've given me something to think about, but its still difficult to make exceptions to my general rule of permitting consenting adults to engage in sexual relationships of their choice.

[Stargazer99]

21. Do you really think someone will die or go insane if they don't

have sex with a non-relative? It is called decency. Just because one desires sex with a non-blood relative doesn't mean they must have sex or something horrible will happen to them. Two adults that are not related by blood or family relationship I would not see as a problem.

[aikoaiko]

34. Its about liberty -- the heart of being a liberal.

Criminalizing sex between consenting adults just rubs me the wrong way, but I see your point.

[razors edge]

2. Consenting adults.

The family will have to work out the hardship of reality regardless of the states intervention.

My tax dollars could have fixed my ally here in Toledo instead.

Edit spelling, as usual.

[progdonkey]

3. I agree with aikoaiko...

Consenting adults who aren't close blood relatives should be allowed to engage in whatever sexual activities they choose to, with the exception being if the younger one had known the older one as a stepfather (in this case) while she was still a minor, because then it's an inappropriate relationship with a minor that then simply extended into his/her adulthood.

If this guy married a woman with an adult daughter, and he then started a relationship with the daughter, the only thing he's guilty of is being a bad husband and adulterer, but he's not a pervert and it's not incestuous. It's definitely a weird and psychologically unhealthy situation, but the fact that she's his stepdaughter should have no legal bearing on the relationship. She's an adult, he's an adult, and they aren't related by blood.

It's the difference between sleeping with your adult sister-in-law and sleeping with your adult sister: they're both unhealthy and inappropriate, but only one is incestuous and perverted.

[BlooInBloo]

4. But... that's not incest.

[Stargazer99]

10. Incest is also an emotional relationship

[WinkyDink]

15. Are Democrats in the business of making up definitions, now?

[BlooInBloo]

24. Can't argue. Infallible victim. Any disagreement makes you a stupid heartless monster.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

5. In My Opinion There Is ZERO Legitimate Basis For A Law Like This. If There Is No Blood Relation,

there is no problem, period.

I'm actually a bit amazed to learn a law like this actually exists. It is completely illogical and twisted.

[BlooInBloo]

6. Consider the state. Right up there with Indiana legislating that Pi = 3

[Stargazer99]

11. You mean just let the stepfather groom the young girl into an adult

sexual relationship? How dense can you get? Or is there some underlying motive?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

16. Oh Give Me A Break.

An adult girl should be allowed to have sexual relations with any non related person she fuckin wants, period. No government should ever be allowed to step in and deem that inappropriate. Who the fuck are they?

There are other laws and other ways to protect children from their parents or step parents. But there is no right of anyone to stop two consenting non related adults from engaging in whatever sexual fucking relations they want. This is insanely pathetic and controlling. Scary too, that they can actually do this.

[WinkyDink]

19. "Adult girl" = "woman", I think.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

25. Who Gives A Shit?

:shrug:

[WinkyDink]

27. I'm on your side, really. Just thought your term hedged its bet.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

28. Realy Was More Of A Mental Slip Than Anything, Since The Post I Was Replying To

used the word girl, so that's what was fresh in my mind as I quickly typed my reply.

[HardRocker05]

41. the point is very valid; there's too much of a power relationship there. do you think it

would be okay for a parent to have sex with an adult child who was adopted as a baby, since there's no blood relationship there?

[BlooInBloo]

44. Fine - that's wrong. Make it illegal. But that's NOT incest.

[WinkyDink]

18. YOU are inventing the back-story here.

[Nikia]

35. So it would be alright for an adoptive father

To have sex with his adoptive young adult daughter who still lives at home, but not if he is the biological father?
The father, daughter relationship is an emotional relationship, not just biological.
As for the step father, step daughter relationship it may vary in some families, but the ruling is recognizing it like a father, daughter relationship.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

37. If She's A Consenting Adult Than Absofuckinglutely.

And it would be none of your fucking business either.

[Nikia]

38. What if she feels victimized though?

Do you think that it really makes any difference whether a man is biologically the father or not? In some cases, a baby born from father/daughter relations may be more likely to have birth defects but other than that the effect is the same.
A father is in a position of respect and authority within the basic unit of society. In the case of a man adopting a child as an infant or young child, there is no difference socially from that of a biological father. In step father cases, the relationship may vary, but in some cases effectively be like a father.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

43. I Said Consenting Fucking Adults. If She Didn't Consent, Let Her Report A Rape.

If it is consenting between two adults, then in my opinion it really isn't any of your fucking business.

I understand fully why incest should not be acceptable and the concept is disgusting to me. But if a step-parent (could be the mother too) and adult stepchild with no blood relation whatsoever choose to enter into a sexual relationship, that's their damn choice and ain't yours, mine or most definitely the governments, fuckin business.

[pitohui]

39. wow so adopted children/stepchildren aren't real children?

i can't believe this thread, either adopted children are real children equal in law to biological children or they are a separate class

assuming she is really the guy's stepdaughter, and not some weird in-between state a la the woody allen mess, then even as an adult she doesn't need to be fooling around with him, it screws up the entire family dynamic, it's sick sick sick

everything isn't about blood, sometimes it's about heart

if we believe that stepfamilies and adopted/adoptive families are not quite real and can always be broken up in favor of a sexual urge...then i don't know

it's saying we don't believe stepchildren are really really real

well maybe we don't

but the law does say otherwise...

there are almost 7 billion people in the world, they could have found someone else to screw that wouldn't have caused such great hurt and confusion to others in the family

if they're consenting "adults," act like adults, dammit!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

45. So Now All Of A Sudden It's Ok For The Government To Enforce Family Dynamic?

And I don't know what the fuck you are talking about as far as adopted children being real children blah blah fucking blah.

If any two adults of non-direct blood relation choose to engage in sexual relation, then it just quite simply is none of your damn business; period.

If it causes family infighting, that's also none of your goddamn business.

[dapper]

7. Woody...

Get your mind out of the gutter, I was talking about Woody Allen and Sun Lee...


Dapper

[The Straight Story]

8. Takes me back some years - as a young teen I read a teen mag, some girls were 'seducing' their dads

My sister used to read teen mags, me I read comics. Well, I had read all the month's issues and had to go to the bathroom and grabbed her magazine off the back of the toilet.

I read the letters' section (usually short and sweet, good bathroom reading) and the focus that month was on incest. Several girls had written in how attractive their dads or step dads were - a few had said they 'seduced' them and others fantasized about doing it.

It stuck with me as I had been molested (not by dad) and in some ways it made me feel less like a freak (and less guilty).

I find it sad that adults cannot say no and give in to their desires at the expense of others, all just to have an orgasm. They leave behind a lifetime of mental hell for so many.

What many adults may not realize is how much sway and power they have over younger people who are going through life changes and seeking guidance, and are prone to make poor decisions based on physical or psychological environment. It is up to the adult to be, well..., Adult.

it is not too dissimilar to a psychologist and their patient, etc.

sad world we live in sometimes.

[provis99]

14. i don't think a 22 year old qualifies as a "kid" or "child"

you gotta become an adult sometime, and if you aren't by 22, you never will be. The "girl" in this case was a 22 year old adult.

[Stargazer99]

22. Did you understand what I posted even as an adult that

emotional relationship as a child still lives in an individual. Apparently, you have never experienced this situation, perhaps you need to consider other views.

[Toucano]

31. SEX LICENSES are the only answer

Would you support the state handing out SEX LICENSES only to those who've demonstrated that they are emotionally "ready" (as if such a thing exists) to have consensual sex?


Since when has it been the states business to protect, regulate, or concern itself with the emotional relationships of adults?

If the individual believes they are emotionally capable of dealing with the consequences, it's their business not yours, mine, or the states.

Following your reasoning, the state should also make it illegal for two people to have consensual sex if one person doesn't like the other person as much as the other person likes the first person. Otherwise, someone could get their emotions hurt.

No, this is about the right-wing redefining "family" to suit their fascist, puritanical beliefs.

Have you considered a situation where a 45 year old man marries a 45 year old woman with a 20 year old daughter, and two years later the mother dies. In the course of managing their grief, the 45 year old man and the now 22 year old daughter fall in love. Should that be ILLEGAL?

The state has a clear and compelling interest in protecting minor children from sexual abuse by adults, and nothing more. When you're an adult, you can have consensual sex with whomever you wish as far as I'm concerned.

[The Straight Story]

29. So do you view the relationship between a patient/doctor in the same way?

such as between a psychologist and his/her patient?

[Porcupine]

33. That should be handled by professional boards.

Patient/doctor could be the person who put a few stitches into an arm or it could be the person who's prescribing oxycontin for pain. There is a huge degree of difference in these relationships.

Likewise therapist/client can imply huge degrees of Independence and/or emotional dependence on the part of the client. In general I would say that these relationships are more prone to abuse than doctor/patient relationships.

Due to the complexity of these issues professional boards should have inspectors general who could recommend prosecution for rape or assault if it's determined that a sufficient degree of coercion was involved. Otherwise they would act to maintain standards as they already do.

The rush to incarcerate has to stop in this country.

[WinkyDink]

13. Is this the "Woody Allen Law"?

[MonkeyFunk]

17. I doubt it

since Woody Allen was never Sun-yi Previn's stepfather.

[WinkyDink]

20. Just being snarky.

[TahitiNut]

23. Sex is a dirty, evil thing that should never be done with family - only strangers.

:evilgrin:

From the story ...

Justice Paul E. Pfeifer, who dissented, wrote that the law was intended to protect children from parents.

"A stepparent, who may not even have married his or her spouse until after the spouse’s children had reached adulthood, has no legal responsibility to his or her adult stepchildren," he wrote.

I agree.

I'm just not willing to make some a priori judgment that any male having consenting sex with an adult step-daughter is predatory - nor am I for a female with an adult step-son.
:shrug:

[FourScore]

26. Kinda' remids me of the Stanley Kubrick classic "Lolita"

with James Mason and Shelley Winters. I can't remember who played the girl, but...Wow! What a fantastic, disturbing movie!

[achtung_circus]

42. Sue Lyon

[FourScore]

46. I don't recall ever seening her in anything else.

She was great in that movie. But James Mason REALLY stole the show.

[achtung_circus]

48. Try Evil Kneivel. nt

[FourScore]

49. Ahhh! Will do! n/t

[Hekate]

30. Woody Allen and whatsername live in Ohio? nt

[cgrindley]

32. Good

My first wife has a daughter from a previous relationship who was less than two years old when we met. That child never met her father (a bad man who had his parental rights severed). For the next 10 years, I was that child's father. Then her mother and I got divorced. The daughter is now 16. I'm still her dad. I'm the only one she's ever known. I'm not related to her in any way but I'll always be her dad.

A person who abuses that sort of relationship should get a hell of a lot more than 120 days in jail. More like 120 years.

[ReverendDeuce]

36. Um, I do not believe it was abuse...

Wasn't the girl -- nay, woman -- 22? Is it still too weird? Potentially, yes. But I don't think we have all the details to assign judgment so readily.

[pitohui]

40. it would be abuse if she was 102

it's telling the woman in the most explicit, physical way possible that stepdaughter or no stepdaughter that she was NEVER any daughter to him, that what they had when she was growing up was not real and that he NEVER loved her as a daughter -- look how much emphasis is placed on "she ain't no blood kin to me, judge"

maybe it shouldn't be illegal, i dunno, but i don't see much added value in the world for this guy having lived either

we have an interest in seeing that stepchildren and adopted children are treated the same under law as biological children, an interest that probably overwhelms some creep's need to dip it in his own stepdaughter at any age

[DaveJ]

47. Shows those in office have a long way to go....

It's not up to us to decide whether this is appealing or unappealing. I have a stepdaughter and I think the idea is grotesque. But illegal? I don't know what their specific situation is, since those limitlessly vary. Punishing someone with what may taint them for life, based on the moral ground that it "hurts families in general" is reprehensible.