Perhaps a superbly naive question, but why do pugs claim to hate HRC so much?

[NNguyenMD]

I really don't have a good understanding why they feel she threatens their interests and agendas anymore than Obama or Edwards.

You know, if anything Giuliani would pose a greater threat to their "core values" voters than HRC. I honestly don't get what is so polarizing about her. To me she's just another candidate, and one who is a little hard to figure what she stands for. Which is why my rank list for president looks more like 1. Gore, 2. OBama, 3. HRC.

Is it still because of the Monica thing? B/c thats pretty f---ing pathetic if thats your chief beef for HATING a candidate much deciding not to support them.

Flame way at my naivete, but I think there are a lot of other people on DU who share the same sentiment.

[C_eh_N_eh_D_eh]

1. She's a woman with a mind of her own.

[NNguyenMD]

4. sometimes I wonder if I'm living in 2007 or 1707

[BlooInBloo]

27. Agruably, white men haven't changed appreciably.

[shadowknows69]

30. Hey now

I'd like to think I'm on the "evolved" end of the spectrum. Sweeping generalizations about any group gets the wrong people swept up in it.

[BlooInBloo]

31. I care not about people who can't distinguish a statement about an aggregate...

... from a statement about an individual.

[shadowknows69]

33. And I don't care for people

who make statements that are by definition prejudice.

[BlooInBloo]

34. Oh no! I'm prejudiced against myself! ACK!!

You guys slay me. Really.

[Itchinjim]

2. Short answer?

They hate and fear women. That's all.

[theoldman]

3. I can think of several reasons.

1. She is a woman.
2. She is a strong and intelligent person.
3. They hate her husband.
4. She supports universal health care.

[NNguyenMD]

GOP!! America's "Mommy Issues" party

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. She "got away" with Whitewateer

[Buzz Clik]

8. Nice list. You posted yours all of one minute before mine.

And we agree 100%

[spanone]

6. Like Cheney said, because she's a democrat. Nothing more, nothing less.

I think these people are so politically drunk, gender is only an afterthought.

[Buzz Clik]

7. No, not Monica. They hated her before that.

1. She's a woman, and a strong woman.
   
2. Her health care proposal back in Bill's first term scared the hell out of them. True fiscal conservatives hate programs such as that one that borders on socialism.
   
3. She's Bill's wife.

[NNguyenMD]

10. thats just really sad in this day in age

that so many retards in this great country wouldn't bother to crack open a pamphlet and realize that her policy stances ain't a whole lot different from theirs because of stupid non-intelligent quasi-personal reasons.

I'm getting depressed reading all this now.

[Rabrrrrrr]

9. They don't just claim to hate her, they DO hate her. Hate her vigorously.

I've often wondered why as well, and all I can come up with is that she's strong, educated, opinionated, she didn't think it was her duty as First Lady (as governor's wife or as president's wife) to be a fashion model who doesn't speak up about anything, and she's what the right would call "aggressive" (though in a man, it would be called "sure of himself" and it would be a virtue).

I don't know if that's it, but I think that's all it can be.

I remember even leading up to the 1992 elections that she was already being cast as the bitch, the aggressive, and the ultra-liberal. The right feared and hated her far more than they feared and hated Bill.

Of course, the right wing might respond to your question with "She's an ultra-liberal!!!!!!!!!" (that is, she wants communism and all babies killed in the womb and welfare for everyone, especially illegal immigrants). Which is what they've been saying since 1992, and which, I think the facts speak for themselves, she is not.

I really don't get their hatred of her - IMO, she's really not done much to inspire such hatred: except that she's a woman, and she's not a demure "stand behind your man" kind of woman.

[opihimoimoi]

14. right on man.....ya got it .....

[NNguyenMD]

16. reasons that I personally hate Bush

STUPID (Iraq, Katrina), CLUELESS(Iraq, Katrina), LIAR(Iraq, Katrina)

[napi21]

11. I'm susreBill's philandering is part of it, but I think they hate HER

for a lot more reasons.

She's a strong willed woman-won't take her rightful place in the family.

She didn't throw Bill to the wolves when he betrayed her.

They still believe she was guilty of a crime when she found some old invoices from the days when she practiced law.

She never wears dresses, so they think she's not feminine enough.

She already spent 8 years in the WH and they just don't want her back there!

[opihimoimoi]

12. FEAR and HATE.....they Hate whatever they CANNOT CONTROL >>>DOMINATE>>>SUBDUE

The Pubs wish to RETAIN CONTROL...will do anything to accomplish...even resort to dirty tricks...read Larry Sabato...Glenn Simpson...DIRTY LITTLE SECRETS

[Mz Pip]

13. Her last name is Clinton eom

[kirby]

15. Multiple reasons...

For one her last name is Clinton. And Clinton's are a polarizing factor.

She is also considered a 'bitch' because of her involvement in 'travelgate' and her treatment of WH staff. (Of course if a man did the same, the trait would be labeled something more favorable).

Many people think a first lady should be baking cookies or visiting Walter Reed only. She wandered into the realm of policy making as a First Lady and she was
not elected to do so.

She is seen as a real panderer. She appears to put her political interest about all.

I don't agree with these reasons personally. I do however agree with one thing - I want our next president to be more of a 'unifier'. That rules out Clinton for me because she starts with so much negative baggage. No more Clintons or Bushes for me. I think someone like Obama is better in that sense -- he will start with a cleaner slate.

[CTyankee]

17. They would have hated Teresa Heinz Kerry too if she had become

First Lady. They've just had a longer time to beat up on Hillary.

They are busy with little cottage industries of hate and smear for Nancy Pelosi and Barbara Boxer, too, in case you haven't noticed. There's a particularly nasty strain of women haters among these people. Eventually, they will die off...

[Cass]

18. Its not because of Monica - they had a hate on for her way before that.

It started way back during the 1992 campaign when Hillary said something about being out there working instead of staying home baking cookies. They went apeshit over that comment. Then she proposed the universal health care plan and they lost their minds totally.

In his book Bill Clinton mentioned that when he was deciding whether or not he was going to run in '92 he got a call from someone involved with the Gop (I think it was Gop, can't remember now) who said if Clinton would let Poppy get his 2nd term in and run in '96 instead of '92 they would go easy on him, but if he ran in '92 they would rip him apart. I'm paraphrasing, of course, but you get the idea. They started in on the Clintons during the campaign and they're still at it today. It must burn them up that despite all their sleazy attacks Bill and Hillary have been quite successful in politics. But I can only imagine what they have in store for both Hillary and Bill if Hillary gets the nomination in '08.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

19. Doesn't make sense to me either

They say they are the party of "family values" but instead of applauding Hillary by staying in her marriage, they condemn her for not divorcing Bill. Of course, look at who they see as heroes--Rudy has had three wives, as has Newt, right?

[TexasProgresive]

20. The principle hate HRC drum beaters are also the first

to be promoting her as the Dem nominee. That's Sludge, Flush and the rest. They know that they can stir up the "base" to mouth foaming hate with a Clinton and a woman at that as the Democratic nominee. This is an age old strategy for the Pukes since Nixon - chose the opponent you can beat.

I too, want someone who is less polarizing and also has a real chance to win. I will not vote to nominate Sen Clinton but if it our doom I will vote for her as president, knowing full well it will mean at least 4 more years of Puke rule.

[yella_dawg]

21. I think the real answer is...

the incredible hatchet job paid for by Big Pharma against Hillary because she was the face of "socialist" health care. It's hard to understand the impact of the loony-toons radical right-wing media. I mean the fundie christian freak stuff. In this region of the country, even the local TV affiliates are right-wing psychotic organs. Hell, even the NPR affiliate is operated by Bush sycophants.

The weird thing is, my ex-sister-in-law can't even speak coherently when you mention Hillary. She is a flaming liberal compared to my brother, but at least the name can come up in conversation without his losing control. His ex literally can't speak coherently once she hears the name.

[mntleo2]

22. Oh Geeeez People

Can't anyone dislike a candidate without being afraid of her being a strong woman? I like her strength, but I do not like her take on poverty or the war. Sorry but it has *nothing* to do with how strong or smart she is, and as a woman myself I find that an insult, like I am somehow "afraid" of her intelligence and ambition (tho I have found most ambitious women I know to be selfish and elitist and they could care less about anything or anyone else but themselves).

How about that she has no heart?

She went around the country just 2 years ago with Joe Lieberman touting Welfare DEformed. Like low income moms "do nothing" when they spend time with their children instead of someone else raising them. Like low income moms are "doing nothing" when they are moms. Like working a minimum wage job that will keep her in poverty for all her and her children's life is "better". Like doing what women have done from the beginning of time, weaving community, taking care of family and extended family is not doing anything. Like raising the next generation to take over this country and pay our social security and medicare is not a worthwhile contribution. Like "women's work" is not worthwhile and only "men's work" is "better". Like a poor woman getting an education instead of being condemned for the rest of her life to working for some psycho McSupervisor who will use her until she is sick or dead is "better".

She was for the war and refuses to even apologize for her bad judgment. I find it interesting that as close as she has been to the seat of power, she could not see what millions of people around the world and right here in American knew was a bad thing and marched, wrote letters, spoke out and did everything they could to stop it, but not Hillary. The panderer that she is, she was out there waving the flag.

And she is a panderer ~ whatever way the wind blows she is right there standing in the front of the breeze, her latest being the flag burning amendment while the whole country is burning ~ literally from Hurricane Katrina, outed CIA agents, greed-filled scandals and every Republican tainted from their massive snorting at the trough. So what does she do? Enter a freaking flag burning amendment! Geeez, look around you Lady and open your eyes, the economy is going into the toilet, millions are losing their homes, kids are needlessly dying in Iraq, corporations are shipping our jobs overseas at alarming rates, our air, our rivers and oceans are dying, the Gulf Coast is falling apart, we are torturing prisoners, kids are dying right here because we have no health care ~ this is just a few things this woman could concentrate upon especially if she is running for president. Couldn't she concentrate on something with a little more substance? But what does she do? Enter a lame flag amendment. Get real.

Sorry but I do not hate the woman, I am not "afraid" of her, I am not intimidated by her ambition, I could care less about Monica ~ as a matter of fact I admire her for sticking by her husband through it, I know that Whitewater was just a bunch of disgusting people trying to ruin her. I just think she is not the best candidate because she obviously does not seem to have much concern for anyone but her rich friends she doesn't even want to take the pulse of what is important and the above reasons as well as other ones illustrate why.

My 2 cents

Cat In Seattle

[Rageneau]

25. You're not the kind of Hillary 'hater' the poster was talking about.

You seem to have thoughtful and valid reasons for disliking Hillary (aside from lumping her in with those terrible 'ambitious women.')

Personally, I believe that what you see as pandering is actually just Hillary playing pragmatic, presidential politics. Even so, said pandering is a valid reason to oppose her.

But that's the difference -- you 'oppose' her, whereas many RWers literally HATE her (as do some on the Left) --- and can't say exactly why.

It is her very existence, not her stance on the issues, that offends such people.

Anti-Hillaryism is like anti-Semitism. There's no good reason for it; it just is.

[mntleo2]

29. Thanks Rageneasu

In a way I also have to admit it is a woman's issue, this Hillary thing.

I agree I am quite bitter about ambitious women because from what I have seen, they have not done much better than the men when they get into power. I voted for a woman governor once because she was a woman (Dixie Lee Ray) and it was the worst disaster and the dumbest reason to vote for anyone I had, lol. And I am thinking mostly of women bosses I have had, and perhaps leaders like Margaret Thatcher who was as wingnut as they come in many ways.

Even my present governor (a Dem) is pretty cold hearted. She just threw over 50 families off TANF when it will not save a cent iand was merely done to be punitive. She refused to even listen to the very people who worked closely with mothers and mothers themselves. She even ignored DSHS own statistics that indicate most moms who could not comply had serious barriers like they are disabled, have disabled kids, have no transportation, the communities they live in have no jobs, and there is no childcare. She "assumes" that DSHS is working when in all areas it is horribly broken because like Hillary, she turns a blind eye to what is right in front of her.

As a woman and who embraced the feminist movement in the '60s and '70s I hoped for better. One of the reasons it was argued then that women would do better with power than men is that they are more humane, more family oriented, were more oriented towards social justice, and cared more about children. But from what we have found that is far from true. Women can be just as vicious, greedy and heartless once they got theirs and to hell with everyone else. Over 1/2 of the world's working population is female and yet they make less than $1.00 a day ~ and there are more American working women in horrible poverty, we still make .70 on the dollar (the same as we did 30 years ago). Hillary nor many of her cohorts have not done a damn thing about women's plight except make their lives worse because of what she has supported. I could care less if a male swears in front of me on the job or hangs a girl y pic up in his locker (a woman here actually won $4 million for that). what I do care about is if I get paid the same as a man if I do the same work, that traditionally women's work (nursing, teaching, childcare, etc) is paid decently as a man's traditional work, it is about that for me and these women have not done a damn thing for those issues.

Quite frankly I expect better than that from women.

I will say our local "old girl's network" does have some very dedicated and insightful women who have given their lives for social justice for all people including women and since they have a doorway at least to power, I really admire how much they have given and still give ~ but they are mostly behind the scenes and you would not know it unless you knew "who" they were (like a deputy council person, a judge, a long time lawyer who works with the "old boy's network, ex-nuns, etc). Even they often want to fix poor women instead of realizing its the system that is broken not the people caught in it.

Then I had 3 Hispanic sons and saw what "feminism" can do to boys at least the kind that Hillary subscribes to, and it has not only made most poor women's lives more miserable, it has also made male's lives worse ~ especially men of color.

So no I am not thrilled with Hillary or her ilk. We used to say true women's rights would lift everyone, men included but the women in power seem to have forgotten that. Nope, instead these women still have to exploit someone and make them the fire hydrant to piss on. If Clinton had what she has AND the heart and insight of a Cindy Sheehen I would support her because at the very least, Cindy has a heart, and besides some intelligence and ability to convince, this is all I ask.

My 2 cents

Cat In Seattle

[paulk]

35. need a trowel for the shit you're spreading?

btw - she voted against the flag burning amendment...

you don't know what the fuck you're even talking about, do you?

[mntleo2]

36. Sure ...

...let me have that shovel so I can make sure to keep your crap out of my yard, ok? Tell me oh Witty One Who Does Not Know How To Speak Without Using Expletives ... did she initially support that bill with some Repig so she would look "bipartisan"? This way she can blame HIM for that stoooopid bill, right? Is this why she voted against it? What about her ignorant, heartless and elitist stance against poor women in this country? Oh I seeee ~ this is because she wants to make things better for low income moms by forcing them into perpetual servitude and denying them any education and then applaud while forcing their children into her unjust war where they will get killed. Why this way, we won't need any abortion anymore! Then she can pretend what a humane woman she is (to the rich and ignorant) and oh man PLUS we will all realize what a compassionate conservative she is just like Bu$hie! Brilliant!

Here's another shovelful of stuff you got in my yard ~ you need to spread it liberally over there and you better take a good look at it since some people like to pretend their own crap doesn't smell ...



Cat In Seattle

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tanyev]

23. The ringleaders of the RW must have an enemy to focus on in order to whip the troops

into a frothing, rabid, lather. HRC provided a conveninet target for nearly all of the reasons everyone else has listed.

[RandomKoolzip]

24. Because she's a woman with power.

[PhilipShore]

26. I think I know why they...

hate her. Hillary could end up becoming - more liberal - once she gets in power. She has not really ever taken up any controversial issues, and done anything with it - so they just don't know.

I even have some hope for her; there are millions of issues, she could take up to get her to get progressive/liberals to like her; and if she gets in power she would be forced to decide a ton of issues, and would probably vote liberal.

The House is now a liberal powerhouse.:)

Even if Hillary hates that fact personally -- she will be looking at the polls to; if she gets in - and if voters, put in progressives and take over the Senate, Hillary will vote in their progressive/liberal laws because she will want a 8 year term.

Actually, the more I look at this election; it appears to be a win win for liberals, if Gore runs we win, if Hillary runs we win.

[shadowknows69]

28. They really don't

a Republican friend of mine admitted that she's their parties favorite Democratic candidate. They are just drooling at the chance to attack.

[MonkeyFunk]

32. Because the clintons

have this very infuriating habit of winning elections.

[EstimatedProphet]

37. Because she is of the devil! She is Satan's handmaiden!

She was sent here to do the bidding of the AntiChrist! Didn't you know?

[alfredo]

38. She worked with the Watergate Prosecutor. An Elephant never forgets,

or forgives.

[candidate]

40. Clinton Derangement Syndrome

Mention the name Clinton and they start foaming at mouth and go on hysterical, senseless rants.

Funny stuff. The fact that Bill Clinton was a better president than any republican after Teddy Roosevelt only makes them angrier.