Rich Venezuelans, alarmed by Chavez's socialism, head to Florida

[Doondoo]

They call it "Plan B." As Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez further tightens control of the South American country's economy, wealthy Venezuelans who once thought they could live with his socialist edicts are turning to their backup plan - flight to the United States, particularly Florida. Venezuelans have long gobbled up condos and pre-construction deals in Florida as investments, but the latest buyers want homes where they can live and business properties that will help them earn a green card.

"First the people who come are the businessmen in the highest circles, then the losing politicians, then the military and then the professionals," said Miami-based immigration attorney Oscar Levin. "You're beginning to see the (Venezuelan) professionals."

This latest and largest potential group of emigrants say they fear the effect Chavez's socialist policies will have on the economy and on proposed educational reforms that could mirror the ideologically imbued education of Chavez ally and mentor, Cuba's Fidel Castro.

"There is so much insecurity, political insecurity, economic insecurity," said Venezuelan Miguel Medina, a business executive who moved to the Miami in August. "You don't know if a contract you signed today will be honored by the government in the future....This was definitely my plan B, but it was time to do the plan B."


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/V/VENEZUELAN_FLIGHT_FLOL-?SITE=VARIT&SECTION=US&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2007-03-03-00-03-25

[lostnotforgotten]

1. The Rich Always Complain About Sharing The Wealth With Others

eom

[SammyWinstonJack]

7. Eat the Rich!

:evilgrin: Do they live in a vacuum? How do they imagine that they got their wealth? Not solely by their own devices. The sweat of others mostly likely played a role.

[SharonAnn]

37. They can join the Batista loving Cubans who did the same.

[barb162]

52. This may not be about wealth as much as personal freedom

The professionals may not be getting that much money

[Toots]

68. What exactly would you consider "that much money"?

This is exactly about the wealthy losing their position of power and affluence in Venezuela. Did you even read the article?

[Hekate]

2. The US knows how to treat the uber-wealthy -- of course they want to be here.

Forget about basic rights and humane treatment, all that matters is those tax cuts. bleah

Hekate

[SammyWinstonJack]

11. Works for bu$hco and his base, you know, "the haves and have mores" nt

[Pavulon]

3. See Brain Drain

That is what happens when countries go socialist/communist. Happened in eastern europe, russia, etc. I would rather catch a flight out than have to stay and play animal farm.

If I was a doctor (insert professional who paid for education) why stay and have my price fixed when I can jet and earn on a free market?

[Warren Stupidity]

6. Yeah look at Sweden and Norway and ...

Somehow you left out the social democracies of western europe. Why?

[Pavulon]

8. You can keep your stuff there

the government is not going to decide to start taking your assets. Obviously I am referring to the style of socialism and communism were your life is RUN by the state.

There is a free market and no "land reallocation" and "nationalization" going on in the first world nations you mention.

[Selatius]

17. From what I can tell, Chavez hasn't nationalized the economy yet

His actions on economic policy up until now appear to be broadly social democratic in nature, given that he hasn't outlawed private ownership of firms except perhaps oil.

[Pavulon]

48. Yet...(nt)

[JackRiddler]

53. That ain't happening in Venezuela, either.

All Chavez has done is to turn the class war around on these people, and they have used every means, unscrupulous and violent, to obstruct and disrupt. Chavez has been generous to them - how many people got arrested after the failed, US-backed coup? How many would have been arrested by the Carmona dictatorship, had it succeeded in the coup?

[Hunky Dunky]

59. Self-delete, wrong spot

[Warren Stupidity]

64. The democratic socialist countries of europe

have mixed economies - some industries are nationalized, some are private sector. That would be precisely what Venezuela is implementing.

For example Norway's Statoil ASA is 70% owned by the people of Norway. I believe that the Chavez government is only buying a 60% stake in the Venezuelan oil industry. Shouldn't you be directing your venom at the hideous totalitarian regime of Norway? It is run by some socialist tyrant - let me see - ah yes the notorious stalinist king Harald V is nominally in charge, although you probably should go after Jens Stottenberg as he is the 'prime minister' of their 'democratic republic'.

[Pavulon]

69. Did they

displace foreign assets or develop it themselves?

Is Norway seizing farmland, "idle" factories?

Nope, norway is a stable first wold economy, Ven. is not.

Venom is what snakes have, free thought to assess the actions of a government without fear for my life or job is what I have here.

They sure are in a big hurry to share that oil money with the EU.

They are operating f-16 (that we do supply parts for) over Afghanistan now..

[ret5hd]

77. Which foreign corps came in and used corrupt gov'ts to steal the

resources and wealth of Norway, etc?

Oh...that's right, none.

[Judi Lynn]

13. Right. The very wealthy are so much more intelligent, aren't they?

If they weren't there to live off the labor of the poor, the poor would be stumbling around naked, in the mud, swatting each other with clubs, and dead animals.

Somehow, Venezuela may just linger on, anyway. Oh, sure, it won't be pretty, but they're brave, they'll buckle down, and maybe ape their "betters" so well they can get things up and running again.

They'll probably weep endlessly at the thought of not being able to see those noble white, puffy faces just one more time, gaping at them from their cars whizzing by them as they stagger, drunk yet again, along the roads.

[Pavulon]

16. Like I said

If I paid for an education as a doctor or petroleum engineer and my earning potential was threatened by a guy in a red shirt playing animal farm with my life...I am gone.

Wealth and intelligence are not linked, but communism and having your life screwed up by the state are.

Play the class war crap if you want but mark is rotten and the states that followed his ideology are collapsed shitholes.

Note social programs in western europe are not what I am talking about.

[Judi Lynn]

23. The world will remember people who tried to help others far longer than the hogs who only tried

to help themselves excessively, and their hog cronies, many times at the great expense of other people.

[stillcool]

26. why is it....

that philosophies of government are considered bad, because of their leaders? My view of democracy is certainly tainted by the practices of the U.S.Government... so how could I, or you, possibly determine that democracy is a better philosophy then socialism? Or do you have first-hand experience living under a different form of government?

[Pavulon]

42. I have done business

and stayed in many different places. For example my trip to bosnia previous system of government was "bad". That is why I had to drive around with a rifle and leave my family for year. IFOR was there because the government sucked. I don't know if that qualifies as living under it, more cleaning up the mess.

I do not judge governments until they start doing certain things. Managing you life is at the top of the list. I have a skill set that is wide ranging. For the government to look at my skills and say in 96 you were writing g code, leave your job and go back to doing this because we are short is wrong. For them to cap my salary, tell me where I can live, or punish me for my politics is wrong.

I have never "lived" under a different system, but have seen many.

Socialism as it exists in western europe is not the same as in zimbabwe or n. korea.

[Warren Stupidity]

63. Democracy and Socialism are not opposed political philosophies.

Thus we have many examples of democratic socialist systems with mixed socialist/capitalist economies and vibrant democratic institutions.

What we have in the US is a corrupt republic, a charade of democracy that advocates neoliberal economic policies and conflates those economic policies with 'democracy'. Our democratic institutions are corrupt and run by and for the corporate elites rather than for the benefit of the people. We have a kleptocracy pretending to be a democratic republic.

The choice is not between democracy and socialism.

[ngant17]

27. I've been to Eastern Europe (Prague and Budapest)

and I think you have it all wrong.

I've met and interview working class people in Czech Republic and Hungary.

For example, Jozef, who lives in Benesov, CZ. He worked for almost 30 years in the heavy construction industry, specifically in the
underground Metro train lines. He believes that in CZ overall things were much better during the communist times. In fact, he owns a very nice 2-story house with a large garden, specifically due to the socialist policies which were in effect back then. He was given this subsidized house as a reward for getting married early and having a family. Today, with the pervasive influence of US capitalism everywhere you go in CZ, to try to acquire a similar kind of dwelling would be prohibitively expensive. It simply would not be possible today.

The pervasiveness of US culture is bringing many negative things
for the people. There is more greed, more self-centered
attitudes. Those kinds of social relationships were unheard of,
during the communist time. People were more friendly and
helpful. Now the slogan seems to be, "What`s in it for me?" or
"In what way does this benefit me first?" Ironically, it seems
that many of the former Communist officials in CZ are now the
biggest supporters of the capitalist changes taking place today.

Also, when I went to Hungary, which BTW has a totally different culture and language than CZ, the people I met there were not anti-socialist either.

[Pavulon]

43. Funny

when I do business with other machine tools companies in western europe. People from east germany and poland (central europish) are not very fond of the old system.

I guess the fact that they now make more money using their skills in the EU and are able to earn many times more on an open market influences them. The fact a really smart person can do well in design and fabrication makes him happy. Just because he can turn metal better than some other person doesn't mean he should have to do it for his life long career.

You would be amazed how much people enjoy freedom of movement and thought.

[ngant17]

57. it only proves that you can't make generalizations

and your subjective opinions based on your experiences are just as valid as mine are, based on my travel there.

I was in E. Europe in Winter, 2001. My Czech friends characterized the people in the US as descendants of fortune seekers, social outcasts, pirates, anti-social types, greedy, self-seeking individualists prone to
violence. I agreed wholeheartedly. And it would be insane for people in E.Europe to try to emulate the US. There is too much negative things, and few positives.

When we allow our riff-raff to attain political power and build up a powerful armed gang of terrorists -- a war-mongering Congress and the Pentagon, it is a real threat to the rest of the peaceful world.

[Clark2008]

39. I know a guy named Mark who is pretty rotten - but

I didn't realize states followed his ideology.

:shrug:

[Pavulon]

44. X

not to many states you would want to vacation to do. They seem to be gray, defunct places.

[Warren Stupidity]

65. doctors and petroleum engineers?

For sure petroleum engineer have nothing to worry about. Venezuela's nationalized oil industry will continue to employ them and will have to pay market rates for their services. Doctors will be become less scarce as the improved educational system produces more of them, but then again the improved healthcare system will also employ more of them. Probably some doctors will be able to make more money up north doing nipntucks etc. but my guess is that there will not be a mass exodus of medical professionals.

[Pavulon]

67. My examples

were people who paid for education to attain wealth and status. Personally I have no objection to neurosurgeon making 650k or an anesthesiologist making 500k or more. You tell that guy he makes the same as a GP after years more education, he is gone.

A petro engineer can vary is skill from dolt to genius. If the genius is pegged to the same scale as the lazy moron just showing up and drawing a check the smart guy will either leave to earn elsewhere or become a lazy slob like his coworker.

When people have the state fixing their salaries and managing peoples lives intelligent people tend to leave.

[originalpckelly]

22. When do you plan on moving to Venezuela to join in the glorious revolution?

:shrug:

[Judi Lynn]

30. What sense does your question make? Why take up space with that?

Trying to bait DU'ers is non-productive.

[originalpckelly]

33. You seemed a little gun-ho about what's going on down in Venezuela.

I guess I mistook that for wanting to actually help.

[JackRiddler]

55. Soon as you move to a free market zone in northern Mexico n/t

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

78. .

[Deja Q]

35. Business intelligence. One may know how to broker/launder/whatever money,

but be utterly thick when it comes to other things.

I say why not use people to the best of their natural-born abilities?

[MadHound]

66. Ummm, this isn't a "brain drain" it is a "wealthy businessmen" drain

Big difference, and wealth doesn't equate brains. And while there might be some intellectual flight, it won't be as dire as you are trying to make it sound. After all, look at Cuba. How many doctors fled from there? Apparently not many, since their health care system has been considered one of the best for decades now.

And frankly, with a socialist education system, any brain drain can be replaced from among the remaining population. Or are you going to try and say that there is no intellectual capability among the lower economic classes?

Sorry, but I think that you're overblowing this out of proportion.

[gravity]

79. Professionals are leaving

like doctors, engineers, prefessors, and scientists. Not just businessmen.

While wealth doesn't equate brains, brains don't equate expertise either. You need intellectuals to train the next generation of intellectuals.

[Forkboy]

80. Wait...which country are we talking about again?

:)

[MadHound]

83. The only specific class that they speak of is the businessmen

They vaguely mention that "professionals" are leaving, but give no concrete examples. The only example that they have are of businessmen:shrug:

I'm not saying that others aren't leaving, but I suspect that it is in much fewer numbers than the businessmen. After all, just because you are a professional doesn't mean that you're wealthy, which is the class that Chavez is targeting his policies at.

[Judi Lynn]

85. Intellectuals coming here? They're going to be sorry!

_Bush's right-wing regime HATES intellectuals, and spends a lot of time trying to silence scientists, as in global warming, drilling in the ANWR, ignoring "professionals" who could help with alternative energy sources, even CUTTING CANCER RESEARCH, of all things, slashing the hell out of public broadcasting, student loans, etc., etc., etc.

The right-wing propagandists are hard at it night and day mocking progressives, mocking conservationalists' findings, ridiculing college professors, teachers, every thing in the world but war, and acquisition, and getting more and more, and more, while the rest of the world perishes.

I don't expect we'll be seeing a huge number of "intellectuals" who hate Venezuela's necessary progress toward improving the conditions of the Venezuelan impoverished masses. Real intellectuals are not hateful.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

4. Somehow, I don't think they be picking lettuce and watching out for "La Migra".

[Warren Stupidity]

5. oh bullshit

Another hit piece on Venezuela's democratic socialism. Fine, all the rich folks in Caracas who can't count on their oligarchic privileges and miss the kleptocracy can migrate to Miami and try and get along with the Cuban mafia there. Have a nice day.

Buying out corporate control of oil resources is so horrifying. What's next, more schools? Better roads? Improved medical care? The shame. How dare they.

[EFerrari]

24. Hot meals for school kids. These guys are DANGEROUS.

:sarcasm:

Fuck you, you greedy f&cks, even those in my own family. And, adelante to all the people who are benefiting.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses..." as long as they're rich.

[Selatius]

10. We should tax the rich as a price for exploiting the poor.

Then use the revenue to provide opportunities for poor people.

I hope Chavez claims the businesses they abandoned back home and turns them into worker co-ops.

[Joanne98]

12. I don't want these bastards in my country.

Why don't they take their greedy selfish ways and go somewhere ELSE!

[Pavulon]

20. What would you do?

If I was a doctor practicing medicine here and someone told my salary was now pegged. See ya, off to a free market..

They can come here pay taxes and generate wealth, just like the other rich people who live here..

Medical school 100K, earning 15k a year and a plot of dirt to grow beans does not offset that.

[Joanne98]

32. They're going to pay taxes? I'll believe it when I see it.

They can go somewhere else. the US isn't the only country in the world. Why do we always get the GREEDY!

[Pavulon]

47. Because

greedy makes things work. People do not do revolutionary things for a pat on the back. The promise for wealth for innovation is a great thing. You are using a decent computer because people want them and will pay. Else you would be using crap.

Greed (defined as want for wealth by me) is why we have a massive diversified market.

We do insure deposits here, there are some other countries I would move to live like a king. I could bounce around happily doing cool stuff.

Florida has homestead laws.

[blonndee]

49. Not everyone is motivated by Making As Much Money as Possible. n/t

[MadHound]

71. But interestingly enough, under most socialist systems,

You wouldn't have to pay that kind of money for an education. Therefore you wouldn't have to grind you poor and middle class patients into the ground with high prices, as is happening here in the US. And then, instead of worrying about the bottom dollar, you can worry about your patients.

Holding up the US as the model for a medical system is stupid, for frankly our health care system has been broken for thirty years now. Over forty five million people in the US have no health insurance. Thus they are left out in the cold when it comes to health care. Even middle class people find health care to be a serious drain on their resource, since their insurance policies generally have some steep deductables, leaving them on the hook for those fifty to one hundred dollar doctor visits, and let's not even get into prescriptions.

Yet if we look up north, we find a sane, caring healthcare system. It is subsidized by the government, every citizen is covered, and those who wish to go into the healthcare field have their education subsidized also. Sure, these doctors don't make a ton of money like US doctors do, but they don't wind up having to pay out a ton of money for malpractice insurance, their education, etc. And besides, is greed such a highly esteemed value anyway? Many of the doctors that I've known have gotten into the profession simply for the money. These doctors wind up being piss poor practitioners. Take the greed factor away in these cases seems like a good thing to me.

[Hunky Dunky]

61. Why are they being greedy?

They want the opportunity to earn a living according to what the makret will bear for their skills. Isn't that how you earn a living, or would you rather the government peg your salary to prevent you from being too greedy?

[tnlefty]

88. I'm with you! We have enough of our own greedy f$#*s

without adding more. :thumbsup:

[GreenPartyVoter]

14. They're buying what will one day be under-waterfront property

[JanMichael]

15. They started in 2002-2003. A group of them came to my office...

...looking to buy land as they sucked wealth out of Venezuela.

I met them personally. I despised them quietly then. I diss them all publicly and loudly now.

EDIT: I should add that I met some the assholes back in 2002-2003. I imagine they've been at the fleeing game since before then. Frankly I'm glad that the SW Florida RE market is tanking. I hope they lose it all.

[Balbus]

18. Sounds like a win/win situation...

The United States (specifically Florida) get a boost to the economy with the influx of wealth, and Honeybear Hugo gets rid of some people who won't cower before him or submit to his demands. Who can complain? :shrug:

[hobbit709]

19. Just like all the Cubans

that left after Castro took over. The ones who booked first were the rich who didn't want to share.

[EFerrari]

21. Sorry for Florida that they'll get an influx of BFEE cronies.

:shrug:

[ngant17]

29. I might get that bad some day

and the US workers in Florida might actually see a better economic deal for themselves in Venezuela or in other socialist-leaning counties of Latin America.

Unfortunately, the poorest of the poor won't be able to leave so easily. They'll be forced to build homeless cities like they're
doing right now in Liberty City's commune known as Umoja Village.

If the rightwing can keep a strangle-hold on Florida politics, the worst is yet to come for the poor workers of Florida. OTOH if we can successfully organize and attain political power, all those noveau-gusanos from Venezuela will rue the day when they thought they could take their money and run from Chavez and wait it out in Miami (hoping for a CIA-sponsored counter-revolution to sabotage the working-class government in Caracas(.

[EFerrari]

41. If you have enough money, you can wait.

My wingnut uncle and his circle of BFEE cronies have been laundering money in Miami forEVER.

You don't even have to be there. You just have to know a guy. :(

[barb162]

54. Wait till the next few hurricanes. They might not like Florida

[mitchum]

25. Are they also going to whine, lie about a "diaspora" and hijack US...

foreign policy?

[BlooInBloo]

28. Just like the white rich bigoted Cubans back in the day.

[Vidar]

31. Oh goodie, another influx of gusanos.

[upi402]

34. Hiding under Jeb's skirt

and probably want to use Cape Canaveral as a launch pad for their next rightist coup. That or want top go weightless with Stevie Ray Hawkings...

[Forkboy]

36. I'm sorry for the sane people in Miami

All three of them ;)

[Lost-in-FL]

46. Nah... they are all in Orlando

[LoZoccolo]

38. There will be massive brain drain from Venezuela, I bet.

Someone's going to accuse me of saying that the rich should be given free reign over there, but whatever...get some guy in power who starts acting like an autocratic demagogue and see if the people who can flee will.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

40. They are the country club Republicans of Venezuela

Luke 16 (King James version)


<19> There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
<20> And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
<21> And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
<22> And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
<23> And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
<24> And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
<25> But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

[ngant17]

58. Don't care how many rich Venezuelas come here

there will aways be more of "us" than "them". And as long as we can make sure every vote is counted, they're just a drop in the bucket.

Miami is over-priced real estate. I hope they buy it all up and get stuck with it. In the meantime, the less there is of the bourgeoisie living in Venezuela, the more easier for the Venezuela workers to control the country over there. Bring 'em on!

[Lost-in-FL]

45. Oh gosh... more Mexicans coming to the USA??

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[BayCityProgressive]

50. Just what we need

more right wing nuts that will dictate foreign policy. They can join AIPAC and The Miami Cuban Mob in ruining our country.

[BushOut06]

51. Greedy fucking bastards - making $$$ off the backs of poor Venezuelans, then hauling ass

They should have their assets seized, and their property redistributed. What these rich fatcats are doing is really nothing short of economic treason. I am longing for the day when we can institute some sort of salary cap here in this country. NO reason that a corporate CEO should be making millions or billions of dollars, while his workers are barely eking by on minimum wage with no insurance.

[Pavulon]

70. Keep longing

that will never happen. Who do you think puts officials in office? Who pays their way?

You can make millions of dollars over 10 years as a ER doctor. In two as a anesthesiologists. I have no problem with that.

Choices play a part in your earning potential. Drop out of high school vs go to medical (whatever) school and your earning potential is changed by millions over your life.

They earned the money so why not just tax it under the existing legal system and let them set up construction companies here and make more money.

[MadHound]

72. Sorry, but I have a serious problem with that

Doctors grinding out their filthy lucre from the misery of the poor and middle class. Yeah, I have a huge problem with that.

One more reason for us to take money out of the political equation with publicly financed elections. Then we will see the power of wealth diminished in our government.

[JackRiddler]

56. Poor Americans, kept warm by free oil from Venezuela, show their gratitude...

Sound like propaganda? Well, less so than your OP.

[Hunky Dunky]

60. Chavez is ruining Venezuela

He is discouraging foreign investment, driving out the educated populace, driving out the wealthy, who take their money with them. I guess being wealthy will one day be a crime in Ven. because all wealthy people are baaad! What a clownfart this little red-shirted Napolean is!

[Warren Stupidity]

62. Oh not to worry so much about all that foreign investment and

money leaving. Turns out Venezuela is sitting on a pile of oil and that oil isn't going to go anywhere when the disgruntled idle rich leave, and the world needs oil. So like the horrible democratic socialist Norway did with their North Sea oil, Venezuela will be able to use their oil resources to build a social infrastructure for the benefit of the Venezuelan people, and won't have to worry too much about access to capital or lack of willing partners in development projects.

Napolean, by the way, had a habit of invading other nations and bringing them French style government. That description of yours would be better applied to our own little tyrant rather than the peaceful non-aggressive nation of Venezuela's democratically elected and overwhelmingly popular leader.

Welcome to DU. Enjoy your time here.

[Hunky Dunky]

82. Thanks.

I enjoy being a member at DU. It's a great place. I hope you enjoy your time here too.

I call him Napolean, not because of conquest ambitions, becasue I don't believe he is inerested in conquest. I'm referring to his Napolean complex, i.e. the Little Big Man complex. It's based on an exaggerated sense of himself and ego.

As far as the oil thing, Chavez plays with that resource as if it belongs to him, not the people. The people will get wise soon enough!

[Judi Lynn]

84. It would be so good to see information explaining how Chavez "plays with that resource

as if it belongs to him, not the people."

That's a new one for a Democratic board, at least. Never have heard a breath along that line until your post.

If I'm not mistaken, the money is being plowed into Venezuela, and into building South American solidarity, in loaning money to other countries, etc. which, of course, is not a losing proposition.

In the past it has been easy for right-wing American Presidents to divde and conquer South America, installing and maintaining European descended puppets, and killing off the ones they didn't want, even though they were well elected by their people.

I think it's about time Latin America got free of American right-wing bullying, don't you?

[Hunky Dunky]

86. So, when Chavez gives oil at a discount to 16 U.S. states

Whose approval does he seek for that? The peoples? LOL! Yeah, right.

If I were a poor person in Venezuela (and I've been there and seen them; perhaps we can compare notes and you can tell us of your first-hand experiences) I would be wondering why he was so generous to foreigners when he could be selling that oil at the inflated OPEC monopoly-controlled price and taking the proceeds to benefit the poor in his own country.

[Hunky Dunky]

87. BTW, one point on which you are spot on

This is a Democratic Board. Not a communist board. Not a socialist board. Thank you for bringing that up. Bring it up more often. Thanks!

[Warren Stupidity]

90. Social security: one step from stalinist tyranny. nt.

[donsu]

73. neo cons/criminals know they are welcome in Fl.

nt

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

74. Chavez exploits oil to lend in Latin America, pushing IMF aside

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070304/BUSINESS01/703040311/1066

[pitohui]

75. better have a plan c, apparently florida will be underwater in a few years EOM

/

[ret5hd]

76. Where's the jingoistic nationalistic anti-immigrant crowd now???

Aren't these light-skinned, smoothly cultured businessmen, politicians, military and professionals going to be stealing the jobs and lowering the wages of OUR OWN businessmen, politicians, military and professionals???

[Hardrada]

81. Viva la Revolucion!!

Filthy white guardist neocons outnumbered on this post!!

[ftr23532]

89. Here's a great show on the Bush ties to the Venezuelan oligarch involved in the 2002 coup attempt

One of the many fun-facts in this show is that the wife of Blackwater CFO http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2894588#2900312">Joseph E. Schmitz, is the sister of Jeb Bush's wife. Here's the show: http://ftrsummary.blogspot.com/2005/11/ftr-533-florida-argentine-connection.html"> FTR #533 The Florida-Argentine Connection: Another Helluva Conspiracy Theory Audio http://www.wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=17127&archive=23930">here

Enjoy! :-)