Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Boston Globe: "Marijuana as wonder drug"

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 09:25 AM
Original message
Boston Globe: "Marijuana as wonder drug"
Marijuana as wonder drug
By Lester Grinspoon | March 1, 2007

A NEW STUDY in the journal Neurology is being hailed as unassailable proof that marijuana is a valuable medicine. It is a sad commentary on the state of modern medicine -- and US drug policy -- that we still need "proof" of something that medicine has known for 5,000 years.

The study, from the University of California at San Francisco, found smoked marijuana to be effective at relieving the extreme pain of a debilitating condition known as peripheral neuropathy. It was a study of HIV patients, but a similar type of pain caused by damage to nerves afflicts people with many other illnesses including diabetes and multiple sclerosis. Neuropathic pain is notoriously resistant to treatment with conventional pain drugs. Even powerful and addictive narcotics like morphine and OxyContin often provide little relief. This study leaves no doubt that marijuana can safely ease this type of pain.

As all marijuana research in the United States must be, the new study was conducted with government-supplied marijuana of notoriously poor quality. So it probably underestimated the potential benefit.

This is all good news, but it should not be news at all. In the 40-odd years I have been studying the medicinal uses of marijuana, I have learned that the recorded history of this medicine goes back to ancient times and that in the 19th century it became a well-established Western medicine whose versatility and safety were unquestioned. From 1840 to 1900, American and European medical journals published over 100 papers on the therapeutic uses of marijuana, also known as cannabis.

Of course, our knowledge has advanced greatly over the years. Scientists have identified over 60 unique constituents in marijuana, called cannabinoids, and we have learned much about how they work. We have also learned that our own bodies produce similar chemicals, called endocannabinoids.

The mountain of accumulated anecdotal evidence that pointed the way to the present and other clinical studies also strongly suggests there are a number of other devastating disorders and symptoms for which marijuana has been used for centuries; they deserve the same kind of careful, methodologically sound research. While few such studies have so far been completed, all have lent weight to what medicine already knew but had largely forgotten or ignored: Marijuana is effective at relieving nausea and vomiting, spasticity, appetite loss, certain types of pain, and other debilitating symptoms. And it is extraordinarily safe -- safer than most medicines prescribed every day. If marijuana were a new discovery rather than a well-known substance carrying cultural and political baggage, it would be hailed as a wonder drug.

More: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2007/03/01/marijuana_as_wonder_drug/?p1=MEWell_Pos2
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
blondie58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. the drug companies worry about their loss of revenue
i get on a support group for multiple sclerosis and several of the posters take marijuana for their pain.

One of them has stated in the past, that it doesn't make him high anymore, it just helps with the pain. Much better than some of the pharmaceutical companies remedy, imho.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
2. Can we legalize it yet? - n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. It's illegal status is just so-o-o counterintuitive.
I heard an interview a while back with people who were on medicinal hooch and then had been switched to marinol and they HATED it because it was far too strong and reduced them to being totally zonked and entirely dysfunctional. They all preferred by far the organic form as they could self regulate their degree of stonedness.

Just another case of big pharma making big money and the gov having no common sense at all.

Non psycho active hemp can be used to make fuel, rope, paper, and textiles, can be grown anywhere, requires very little care, could save a whole lot of family farms, and revive our economy.

BUT NOOOOOOOOO. The lobbyists don't like it at all.

Anybody else totally sick of governance, of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations. . .?

Put that in Thomas Jefferson's pipe and smoke it.

ughhh
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
67. Prison labor contracting
is one of the fastest growing industries in the U.S.

Also, if it were legal, most police departments would face drastic budget cuts. Do you think it a funny coincidence that Jocelyn Elder's son got busted less than a week after she advocated legalization? I don't.

It's ugly, but not counterintuitive, at least not to me.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
4. Does smoking mj cause cancer?
I'd suggest that it probably does, and that's a very bad side effect.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. The only study I've seen ruled out
MJ as a cause of cancer. I'll have to look it up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I'm going to use common sense and suggest that burning a plant then inhaling it...
Edited on Sun Mar-04-07 09:55 AM by originalpckelly
probably isn't a natural function of our lungs, and probably has a carcinogenic effect. Heck, burned chicken has carcinogens in it, the lungs are among the most sensitive organs in the human body, and I'm willing to bet such delicate organs cannot withstand such abuse without becoming cancerous.

Now, there are a lot of other ways to use it, but this would seem to be the most common way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
itsmesgd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. use a vaporizer
it heats the stuff to a high enough temperature to turn the good stuff into a vapor that is then inhaled as a cooling mist. The vaporizer cuts down on the carginogens and also gets every last drop of thc- laced goodness from the smallest amount of mj.

Or so I read from a book
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #8
28. Actually, I agree with that. Heck any method of injesting/inhaling...
that doesn't burn it is probably a-OK.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blondie58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #28
53. mmm... mary jane brownies
it is a win-win situation.

Chocolate raises your endorphins!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nuxvomica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. The body tolerates many things in moderation
Tobacco is not only addictive, causing immoderate use, but it has another peculiarity: it absorbs more polonium from the soil than other plants.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jonathan50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #6
24. Evidence does not seem to support cannabis use causing lung cancer.
http://www.hightimes.com/ht/news/content.php?bid=1390&aid=22

In this exclusive HIGH TIMES interview, Dr. Donald Tashkin, the UCLA lung specialist behind one of the most comprehensive cannabis/lung cancer studies in history, explains how his research has failed to link marijuana use to lung cancer.

HT: As more studies come out on cannabinoids and cannabinoid receptors and how their stimulation is beneficial for a variety of illnesses including wasting syndrome, do you at all feel like a pioneer in finding these positive results?

DT: I wouldn’t consider these positive results. I would consider these to be neutral results; we failed to find a positive association, so I don’t think that’s a positive result. You could consider it to be a negative result, but you know you can never prove the negative; you can only fail to prove the positive. I don’t consider this to be a definitive study; there are a lot of limitations in this study. One is that there was a higher rate of refusal among the cases, so there could have been a selection bias. And the other is that the recall of marijuana use could have been erroneous. The patients may have reported that they used more than they really did or less than they really did and that over and under reporting could have differed between different cases and controls and that could have affected the results. So it’s not a conclusive study, but it is, I think, an important study because the fact that it was designed as well as we could to minimize the biases and we failed to find a positive association.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
itsmesgd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. Legalize it, Vaporize it
An easy way to tolerate mj for people who cannot or do not like to "smoke" is to simply vaporize it. You can get all of the benefits and none of the drawbacks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Marnieworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #29
62. or they can eat it
Edited on Sun Mar-04-07 01:12 PM by Marnieworld
So I'm told. :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #24
36. Also, you have to factor in the fact that
A) most pot is homegrown, therefore doesn't have any weird additives in it that could cause cancer, and B) people don't smoke five packs a day. :) Well, most people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #36
83. and the additional fact that thc is a bronchial dilator...
Edited on Mon Mar-05-07 04:43 PM by QuestionAll
opens up the lungs...making it easier to breathe. when it was legal, it was prescribed to asthmatics.

it helps to ventilate the lungs more completely.


nicotine is a vascular constrictor, and in any ways has a completely opposite effect.

not all smoke is created equal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #83
88. Learn new things every day. :)
Edited on Tue Mar-06-07 03:45 AM by DarkTirade
I've never smoked anything, legal or not, myself. Mostly because I was born fairly poor, and the only things I have of value are my brain and my body, and I don't wanna put funny chemicals in either one.
Although I'm a big fan of legalization, or at least medicinal use. My last ex's father just passed away last month from skin cancer. In the last year or two he started smoking pot to help ease the pain AND to keep his appetite up. He'd always been thin, but before he started smoking he couldn't keep food down. He started losing what little weight he had left on him, which only made his health, and subsequently the pain, worse. Yet if he'd been caught with it, he would have been thrown in jail and allowed to suffer. That's just (*&%ed up right there. I think I can state unequiviacally that if he hadn't been smoking pot, he probably would have died at least a year earlier than he did. And it would have been a slow, painful wasting away.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. I've read that too.
39 plus years of toking here
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. LOL
I am definitely planning on stopping by to see you next time I drive down to Texas. :)

Check this out -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVkk6fH2u0Y
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. No
Cigarettes have chemical additives that cause cancer. Marijuana is free of those chemicals.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. I remember reading once many years ago that the cigarettes of that day were about 30% non-tobacco
products, additives added as flavor enhancers, I kid you not. August 14 '77 I smoked my last cigarette. I'm bad about setting the grass on fire and inhaling the smoke though. :hi:
never did learn to not smell the smoke either, I'm getting to old to change now too
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. It's the crap they add that causes most of the health problems
Nicotine itself is not harmful. It's addictive but does not cause cancer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. Of course, I didn't say that marijuana when used in non-carcinogenic methods...
causes cancer.

Burning anything causes chemical changes, and it is that in part, which causes cancer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. I have never heard that
And I know a couple hundred life long pot smokers with zero health problems from smoking pot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #4
31. Actually, there is much evidence that it may actually inhibit cancer...
Edited on Sun Mar-04-07 11:06 AM by file83
...just some links:

(You'll love this source!)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,196678,00.html

Fighting cancer causing viruses:
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/94/102650.htm?lastselectedguid=%7B5FE84E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348%7D

Inhibiting cancer:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4350642.stm
http://safeaccess.ca/research/cancer.htm

Fighting brain tumors:
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-08/aafc-mii081204.php

The list goes on and on about the postive effects of marijuana and the active chemicals in it concerning cancer. Most people just assume that because of our cultural experience with tobacco, where there is smoke, there is cancer. It's not necessarily true with Marijuana.

Search and check it out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #31
37. Thanks for those links..
I'm always quoting those studies and never had the links handy.

I'm also very interested in cannabis as a treatment for Alzheimer's since the disease in my family's genes.. Another study that is routinely ignored because of the reefer madness stigma that continues to be perpetrated by our government and big pharma.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
7. Legalize it!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
12. But we are winning the war on drugs!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
13. Better than Prozac. Way better. I offer only anecdotal evidence.
:-) MKJ
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cgrindley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
14. It's still a damn dumb drug
I come from the Pacific Northwest and when I was younger, I smoked my own weight in pot every single chance I got. Me and all my friends, back when only British Columbians knew that we grew the finest hydroponic weed in the universe. Pot so potent that one pinner could reduce three or four people into actual convulsions.

I used to smoke this stuff every single day for years. My grade nine year in junior high, for example, I smoked pot all 185 school days at lunch with my friends. A new record! I even came to school sick with the flu so as not to miss a single day. Even today I admire my stamina.

I finally stopped smoking pot in 1994 when my kids were born. It's a damn dumb drug and it totally reduces your will to succeed and makes you eat sugary foods and play endless video games or practice guitar. My pals back home still lack all motivation. No one's done anything useful or interesting. It's like someone pressed pause on a party back in 1990. Nothing has changed. Pot creates totalizing inertia. It just stops things dead in their tracks.

Now, I know that it has many legitimate uses, and can really help people out. But it's still a damn dumb drug.

I favor scheduling so that doctors can legally provide it to patients, but legalizing it is stupid. It might not be as bad as alcohol--alcohol is a killer--but that's hardly a sensible reason to legalize it. That's like saying that since guns are more dangerous than knives, we should legalize switchblades.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. I know what you mean, Carl Sagan accomplished absolutely nothing as he smoked pot frequently.
Edited on Sun Mar-04-07 10:20 AM by BleedingHeartPatriot
:eyes:

Bob Marley. "The liquor, it makes you drunk, the herb, it makes you think." MKJ

edited, I can offer up many things that I've accomplished while smoking, usually rarely, sometimes moderately, and, at times, frequently.(during my years living in HI)

If one is unmotivated, removing pot from their life may help, may not. But many, many, many accomplished folks smoked it or smoke it routinely. MKJ
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cgrindley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Bob Marley is a poor example
The guy basically died for absolutely nothing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CrownPrinceBandar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Huh?.......
Please explain that to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cgrindley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #21
39. He refused medical treatment
due to his religious beliefs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CrownPrinceBandar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #39
51. What does that have to do with pot?........
There are plenty of folks in this country who refuse medical treatment due to their religious beliefs. Its tragic, sure, but has very little to do with the discussion at hand.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cgrindley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. Nothing to do with pot
except as a little bit of evidence that perhaps he wasn't known for making excellent decisions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #55
68. Well, since you judge him so harshly, you must be one KNOWN for excellent decisions.
Otherwise, you'd be a hyprocrite. :hi: MKJ
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #68
91. You. Nail. Head. nm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #18
33. He died from cancer in his Big Toe - from a Soccer injury wound.
Edited on Sun Mar-04-07 11:09 AM by file83
It had NOTHING to do with his smoking marijuana - so what's your point?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cgrindley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. Why didn't he have an operation?
Did some idea that he held come in the way?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #38
80. i can answer that
he didn't have an operation because it was againt his rastafarian beliefs to cut part of ones body off. he died with his beliefs intact, obviously.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #33
77. can't get cancer from an injury
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #77
87. Yes you can. Viruses can cause cancer...
...it's rare, but it can and has happened. Bob Marley being a case in point.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #18
34. Bob Marley is a woderful example for many things. Peaceful revolution, for one.
What's your beef? MKJ
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
78. I see you didn't mention Sagan.
Why did your brain register the presence of Bob Marley but not that of Carl Sagan?

Yeah, that was rhetorical. I know the reason.

By the way, Bob Marley made good music, therefore he DID accomplish something, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #78
90. You'd have to be pretty damn thick to think Bob Marley "never accomplished anything".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. Worst of all .... it turns you liberal. Conservatives beware!! nm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cgrindley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. I don't think that's true
I've known plenty of right wing nutjobs in highschool who smoke pot. EG all those jock types. Not to mention date raping frat boys in college. Those guys smoke weed too. I don't think smoking pot has anything to say about your political views, except that you value getting high.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. I agree, but it is the only reason I believe so many conservatives are afraid
of it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cgrindley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #25
41. True
They're afraid of legalizing it. I think that it should be de-criminalized... eg that its possession should be treated the same way as a parking ticket or a speeding ticket.

Sure a lot of people could benefit from it, but that doesn't mean to say that its use should be encouraged. It just makes people goofy and encourages jam bands.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. You really have no idea what you're talking about
"It just makes people goofy and encorages jam bands".. Does it make them dirty hippies too? :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cgrindley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Sometimes
I distinctly remember wearing the same Corona poncho for about three months in the summer of 1986 when I blazed through 4 ounces of primo weed. I also remember that my girlfriend and I went to folk music fest after folk music fest in an attempt to save the Stein Valley old growth forest. Bruce Cockburn... Spirit of the West... those were the days. Skinny dipping and camping... yep. Dirty hippies.

It's useless to try to pretend that pot is an intellectual drug. Speaking as someone who has tried every single drug out there to well beyond any rational notion of excess, I'd have to put all of my money on heroin, and even then, for every one inspired genius, it leaves pretty much all the rest dead.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. Ahh.. there's the rub. You tried every drug out there.
There's your problem.

I'm talking about cannabis, which is the only drug I use and the topic of this thread.

Every pot smoker I know is intelligent, and many are extremely intelligent. Your theory is bullshit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #41
49. De-criminalize? That means punishment!
Edited on Sun Mar-04-07 12:36 PM by IMModerate
Decriminalization is bunk. It means lesser punishment for something that is a right. Parking tickets can be costly, and they require action. The threat of legal penalties for not acting makes those actions coerced. Speeding tickets even worse, enough of them suspends your driving privileges. What can they suspend for a pothead? How about mandatory rehab? With testing!!

All this and the extended jeopardies that derive from possible non-compliance make decriminalization a joke.

What's wrong with goofiness and jamming? (Or you could be using the sarcasm. :))

On edit: I left out that they'll confiscate your dope. That can be very expensive -- an additional punishment.

--IMM
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cgrindley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #49
57. That's how us Canadians grew up
Smoking pot. The only drawback was that the cops would totally steal your weed. I never knew anyone who got busted, but I knew lots of people who had their pot taken away from them. If there wasn't at least the threat of something legally horrid happening, I daresay that I'd still be sitting on an old couch in the basement of 1325 Finlayson, smoking weed with my friends while I changed the strings on my guitar (I have a red 1966 Fender Mustang).

It should be just the tiniest bit illegal or people really are going to wreck their lives playing nintendo.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #57
66. Things can't be a tiny bit illegal. You are in the system.
You can also only speak for yourself. You're envisioning a law based on your personality.

I'd rather be left alone. Make voluntary rehab available.

--IMM
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
afrosia Donating Member (154 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 06:15 AM
Original message
It doesn't have to mean punishment
Here in the UK if I'm caught with weed (even smoking in the streets) then the worst thing that will happen is the police will confiscate it. There are a couple of exceptions, for example smoking in the vicinity of a school, but mostly they ignore it. Not on the same level as our Dutch brothers next door though. They are very liberal people though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
95. Confiscating my stuff is punishment.
How is it different from paying a fine, except with a fine, you have a chance to defend yourself? What do the police do with all that weed that they confiscate? :smoke:

--IMM
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
afrosia Donating Member (154 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-07-07 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #95
96. Good point. But I just make sure I never carry more than 1/16 oz.
They'll usually empty it down the drain in front of you. I think they got fed up with all the accusations of Friday night blazeups down the nick. They can't just stop and search without reason though, so they have to see you smoke it, or otherwise have good reason to believe that you've got something. Generally I think they are more concerned with Friday night drinking though. Nobody here gets stoned and disorderly.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather be able to smoke in a cafe with my mates, but these things require time and patience. I think the basic steps are:

Decriminalisation,

Legalisation for medical use,

Legalisation.

We're nearly onto step two here, maybe by the time I retire (I'm 23) I'll be able to pop down my local coffeeshop!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
afrosia Donating Member (154 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #49
93. It doesn't have to mean punishment
Here in the UK if I'm caught with weed (even smoking in the streets) then the worst thing that will happen is the police will confiscate it. There are a couple of exceptions, for example smoking in the vicinity of a school, but mostly they ignore it. Not on the same level as our Dutch brothers next door though. They are very liberal people though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #41
56. So what's wrong with jam bands?
You sound like my mother.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cgrindley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. Tell me you're not a dead head or phish food
The only thing worse than that are Dave Matthews fans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. No I won't tell you that. Tell me your stance on pot is anything resembling realistic.
That statement alone shows that you're basing your ideas on who you think are the right people to be around. Clearly it has nothing to do with the drug itself, or any of its benefits.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #14
23. dear friend
every persons physiology is unique. Many fall into the group you were in, but many others respond in a very positive way. Its about knowing yourself and your unique physical, mental, and emotional parameters.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #14
35. Did you ever consider that your friends who still smoke..
are afraid of getting arrested for using their drug of choice? Sitting at home smoking, eating and watching TV is the result of the artificial social stigma and legal status of cannabis, not the drug itself.

BTW, I'm completely against 9th graders smoking pot every day. What were you thinking?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cgrindley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. I was thinking
that it was awesome being high.

For every person who uses pot to treat a legitimate medical concern, there are one thousand who simply want to get really really high.

And as far as your other point goes, for every William S. Burroughs or Charlie Parker.... well... pretty much all the rest are just stupid junkies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Funny, I smoke it to relax.
Just because you smoked it "to get really high" doesn't mean every adult smoker does too.

Do you really think pot smokers are "junkies"? Wow.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cgrindley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Nope
Bill Burroughs and Charlie Parker were heroin addicts. I was trying to show that drug use's impact on creativity is pretty limited.

I am NOT likening pot to heroin. I do NOT think that pot smoking is addictive. I do NOT think that pot smoking is symptomatic of societal collapse or bad morals or poor judgment. I do NOT think that pot smoking is a crime. I DO think that it could help some people.

But... I think that it's a damn dumb drug that turns the majority of its users into listless, do-nothing stoners.

Personally, I don't think it's any of my business what people smoke as long as their smoking doesn't interfere with their ability to contribute to the overall welfare of society as a whole.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. You have no idea how many "normal" people smoke pot behind closed doors.
And since you're not a smoker, how do you know it's a "damn dumb drug"? Smoking pot every day in 9th grade is certainly stupid (kids make mistakes), but that doesn't mean the drug will turn a smart adult into a blathering idiot. Just ask the founding fathers, or Jon Stewart or Carl Sagan for that matter.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cgrindley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #48
61. I smoked pot until 28
I smoked pot quite regularly until I grew up, got married and had kids of my own. It's a silly silly drug. I was 28 the last time I smoked pot. It's a goofy drug. Think about these words next time you're screaming high. Goofy drug.

I've got nothing against anyone using it, but let's not encourage people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #45
75. "I was trying to show that drug use's impact on creativity is pretty limited."
If you have a record or Cd collection you should just throw most of them away,because most of the great music has come from people on one drug or another.Zeppelin,Hendrix,Sabbath,Charlie Parker,Marley, and on and on.

Fuck,the Beatles were so high they let Ringo sing a couple of tunes.(To steal Bill Hick's line)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Little Wing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
43. If that were true the government would be GIVING IT AWAY
:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. Exactly. With due respect to the poster, he's completely clueless about cannbis. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cgrindley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #46
58. At least I can spell it correctly
Buddy, I've smoked more weed than you've had hot dinners.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Little Wing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Oh wow, you really showed that guy
:rofl:


:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cgrindley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. Yep! Nothing better than a spelling zing
the only thing that beats it is smiley sarcasm...

oh...

SNAP!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #58
65. You admitted you smoked weed to get fucked up.
That doesn't make you an expert, that makes you a guy who smoked way too much pot in Junior High during your formative years. I didn't start smoking until I was an adult.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
52. In a free country...
People shouldn't be punished for things that are harmless. Do you think you'd be better off if you'd have spent a few years in jail for your adventures? Would you be a better person if you'd never smoked?

Whatever infirmaties you are attributing to pot smoking are normal behaviors and not illegal themselves. It doesn't make you murder and rape. So why should smoking pot be illegal? (Decriminalized is still illegal.)

You are making a logical error. You are counting incidences of situations that confirm your assertions. You ignore all the instances where pot smokers are extremely suddessful people.

--IMM
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
54. Yeah, marijuana kept me from finishing my Ph. D.
Wait! No it didn't!

:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 04:19 AM
Response to Reply #54
92. It turned me into a NEWT!
(I got better...)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #14
74. Yeah...stay off the pot and
turn on to perfectly legal drugs like Oxycontin...and become successful, like Rush Limbaugh.

:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #14
79. yeah, yeah and you want to prohibit alcohol from being sold
at least one day a week.....

pointless crap...

:puke:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
82. It makes white wommin sleep with negroes and immigrants.
:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
84. studies show that kids have a harder time obtaining alcohol or tobacco than pot.
so, it would seem that keeping it illegal to protect the children is the real stupidity.

but at least you realized that you were unable to handle the drug and it's effects on you.

other people can.

why should they be denied the safe intoxicant of their choice?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
85. So let me get this straight.
You smoked a shitload of pot when you were younger, but now it's "dumb."

You also are for prohibiting alcohol sales on Sundays, yet you make your own homemade wine.

:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
26. Does wonders for me... n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
soulcore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
32. k&r
For what a lot of us daily tokers already know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
69. One more kick for the (mostly) intelligent discourse about the article and lack of rationale for
Edited on Sun Mar-04-07 06:15 PM by BleedingHeartPatriot
the herb's illegality.


:kick: MKJ

on edit, proofed and found lacking.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
70. To continue this intellectual discussion (sarcasm) wouldn't you love to
see Hannity stoned? LOL or Nancy Grace? Sorry, I drifted off the intellectual track.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #70
72. Ah, that is a profound contribution. n/t
MKJ
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cobalt Violet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
71. Marijuana use can improve the outcome of some disease treatment.
That's big. People should be allowed to smoke it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
73. And post stroke pain
which, like diabetic neuropathy, and I can say this with the weight of personal experience, is 24x7.

That sort of pain is like Orwell's boot stepping on a human face over and over forever.

But no, allowing the use of a medicine that offers a bit of respite from that pain would be immoral, according to the Rethugs.

What kind of twisted mofo morality is that, anyway?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
76. can we please farm hemp now?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GumboYaYa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
81. Cataracts, don't forget those.
Edited on Mon Mar-05-07 03:00 PM by GumboYaYa
It is a wonder drug.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
StrictlyRockers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
86. K&R
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 03:55 AM
Response to Original message
89. Free the herb.
This is no surprise to those of us who already partake.

I wish we could do away with that ridiculous term "self-medicate" now.

As if there is something wrong with taking some initiative to make yourself feel better! Ha!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maine_raptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 06:55 AM
Response to Original message
94. I stopped smoking it when
I found that it made me think that Billo was right and Fox News made sense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cobalt Violet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-07-07 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #94
97. It never did that to me.
I never thought any thing right-wing was right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC