Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

More anti-Chavez propaganda via the AP

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Mr Rabble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:02 AM
Original message
More anti-Chavez propaganda via the AP
With virtually no explanation given about what is actually happening, nor any historical context, we see yet another attempt at making Hugo Chavez seem like the big mean...what? Democratically elected president?
So, the ultra rich ruling class is finally being forced to live like the other 98% of the populace, and this is horrible? Of course, we cant talk about the 98% in polite discourse, so we will just have to assume the 2% to be benevolent, decent people who want a better society for everyone, you know, just like in the US.


Here is the latest hit piece from the AP;

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070303/ap_on_bi_ge/venezuelan_flight

Rich Venezuelans heading to Florida

As Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez further tightens control of the South American country's economy, wealthy Venezuelans who once thought they could live with his socialist edicts are turning to their backup plan — flight to the United States, particularly Florida.

First the people who come are the businessmen in the highest circles, then the losing politicians, then the military and then the professionals," said Miami-based immigration attorney Oscar Levin. "You're beginning to see the (Venezuelan) professionals."

Upper-class Venezuelans and their money flowed out of the country after Chavez was elected in 1998 and again when he quashed an unsuccessful coup against his government in 2002, but many professionals still hoped the climate would remain friendly to business. Then came the latest nationalizations. Chavez still pledges to maintain a business-friendly climate, and analysts say the government has paid fair market prices to nationalize the electric and phone companies.

More at link^^^^^^
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. This week's installment of Chavez idolizing.
You love him, lots of people (like me) despise him.

Why does this continue to surprise you?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Is it the schools? The improved health care? Education?
What? I know, the horror and shame of a nation's resources actually used for the benefit of the people of that nation, and right here in our own backyard!

Filled up at citgo this morning and felt damn good about it. The bolivarian movement is both democratic and socialist. Why does that scare you so much?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I'll never understand the hostility coming from the right-wingloons towards the man
the Venezuelan poor elected.

If they didn't want him as their president, they would have gone along with all the filthy tricks pulled by the racist, right-wing oligarchy, in the coup, and in the recall, and in the next election, which he won with powerful numbers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. It isn't just the right.
I certainly don't support (and openly oppose) the efforts of our brain-dead administration to defeat him in Venezuela, but it doesn't take much insight to see why so many of us cannot stand Hugo Chavez. Unless, of course, you agree with his analysis of this country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Which analysis?
Be specific. You siad "Unless, of course, you agree with his analysis of this country" - which statements about the United States by Chavez are you referring to?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Seriously? I need to provide you with a quote?
Let's take it the other way -- you provide a quote from Hugo Chavez in which he gives unconditional praise of the US, and I will retract all my comments on this thread.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Unconditional praise?
So the leaders of other nations, nations that for example were recently the vicitm of attempts to overthrow their government courtesy of our CIA, must make statement of unconditional praise, or otherwise they are proven to be haters of the US?

Wow. Did you get here by accident?

Got any evidence that Chavez hates the US?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. LOL! I love this -- "did you get here by accident?"
Did you? Is it impossible to have a diversity of opinions about a marginally insane, US-hating socialist at DU?

Sorry for disrupting the Chavez love fest. I'll let you carry on ... unless, of course, you can provide the quote for me. Then I'll post my retraction.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. I'm still waiting for two things now.
Edited on Sun Mar-04-07 11:43 AM by Warren Stupidity
1) how is the lack of unconditional praise proof that one hates the united states?


2) can you provide any documentation for your claim that chavez hates the united states?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mr Rabble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Dont hold your breath.
This is a "when did you stop beating your wife?". Or, "Prove to me that you are not with the terrorists".

Jesus.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
30. It will take me a couple of minutes to find an anti-US slogan from Chavez.
And when I do, you'll come up with a pro-US comment from Chavez? They don't exist.

You like Chavez for one of two reasons: a) you naively believe that Chavez is an ally against Bush or b) you share his view of America. Care to tell us?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Here are a couple of articles. Make your choice of quotes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Still waiting! You've got nada, don't you?
Absolutely nothing in the more normal article you can use, and the NewsMax article is a joke. No one would DREAM of repeating anything from those silly, silly people. That is NOT a news source, or didn't you know?
At any rate, they've got nothing, either.

You're going to have to find something which confirms your claim Chavez is anti-American.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #33
43. Skewered by your own argument. A fitting end to this discussion.
In another post, you scolded me for not informing myself about 16 states begging Hugo Chavez for cheap oil to help their poor -- and you're correct: I never heard of this. That doesn't change my mind about him, but I'll concede the point for now.

However, this subthread was based on a demand for me to support the notion that Chavez is anti-US. Which I did by providing two links. You refuse to read them, and then declare that I have nothing.

And that is that. Thank you, but that will be all.

Have a good one, and give Hugo a big kiss.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. I DID read them. That's why I said you've got NADA. I'm saying it again.
You've got nothing which gives evidence Hugo Chavez is anti-American.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Yeah, well, whatever. If you choose not to read the quotes, I can't change that.
In the mean time, I tried to find even a clue that 16 states petitioned Chavez for cheap heating oil, and found nothing that either supported or disputed that claim.

However, in answer to the OP, I found this:

http://mack.house.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=Articles.View&ContentRecord_id=270

So, if any of the Hugo Fan Club care to read this, then they, too, can know why the right distrust or even despise Chavez.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. Here, maybe I can help with your inability to find information on the states
Edited on Sun Mar-04-07 03:12 PM by Judi Lynn
petitioning Venezuela for heating oil. This is the most recent one, and I'll start with it:
Venezuelan Oil Reaches Alaska Villages
Tuesday January 16, 2007 2:01 AM

ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) - Alaskan villages have begun receiving a much-criticized donation of heating fuel from the Venezuelan oil company Citgo, about two months later than organizers had hoped.

More than 11,000 homes in rural Alaska are eligible for 100 gallons each as part of Citgo's pledge to donate 1 million gallons of heating fuel to poor Americans.

Coordinators of the giveaway, led by the Alaska Inter-Tribal Council, had hoped vouchers would reach villages by Nov. 1. But Citgo needed paperwork verifying addresses and head of households for every home in more than 150 villages - an enormous undertaking in many remote areas, said Steve Sumida of the tribal council.

Citgo's $5.2 million gift drew a barrage of criticism because of Venezuela President Hugo Chavez's combative attitude toward U.S. policy, particularly after he called President Bush the ``devil'' in a speech at the United Nations in September. Houston-based Citgo Petroleum Corp. is owned by the Venezuelan government.

Still, more than 150 Alaska villages took advantage of the offer, and residents began receiving vouchers late last month that can be redeemed at local fuel sellers, the Anchorage Daily News reported.
(snip/...)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6347800,00.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Adding another one, this one arranged by Bernie Sanders:
State closes in on deal for cheap oil from Venezuela
January 19, 2006
By Bruce Edwards Rutland Herald

Vermont is close to a deal to obtain discounted fuel oil from Venezuela — a deal that would save low-income Vermonters precious dollars off their home heating bills this winter.

Rep. Bernard Sanders, I-Vt., expects to announce details of the agreement next week with Venezuela and Citgo, the government-controlled oil company.
(snip)

Campbell said the deal will be similar to agreements Venezuela and Citgo reached recently with Maine and Rhode Island. Parts of Massachusetts and New York City have also benefited from Venezuela's offer.

She said the discounted home heating oil would help recipients of the Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program as well as homeless shelters in Vermont.
(snip/...)http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060119/NEWS/601190349/1003/NEWS02

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Photo of New York Congressman José Serrano who arranged heating oil for his constituents:

Venezuela to Provide Low-cost Heating Oil to Needy Bronx Residentsby Brendan Coyne Nov. 22, 2005 – Bronx Representative Jose Serrano (D) announced yesterday that he had brokered a deal with the Venezuelan-owned oil company Citgo to give low-income residents in his district access to reduced-cost home-heating fuel. The Bronx will become the third area in the United States to accept the plan Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez first proposed over the summer.
(snip/...)http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2624

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
01/14/2006 10:32 AM ID: 52258
Maine Accepts Cheap Heating Oil from Venezuela
Gov. John Baldacci of Maine has accepted the offer of discounted oil from Citgo-Venezuela. Nearly 50,000 low-income households and 40 homeless shelters are the beneficiaries.
The Federal Governments refusal to increase low income energy assistance and the sharp increase in fuel costs pushed Baldacci to ask multinational oil companies for assistance, but he says only Citgo-Venezuela responded.
Venezuela Pres. Chavez has been criticized in the past over the cheap fuel offer as being an attempt to embarrass U.S. Pres. Bush, but in response to questions about politics, Baldacci said, "It's not about politics. This is about helping the people."
(snip/)
http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=52258&newsid=5&sort=1&start=1&zeitraum=999&webreporter=lynxdk&rubrikid1=486

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thousands in Mass. to get cheaper oil
Delahunt, Chávez help broker deal
By Michael Levenson and Susan Milligan, Globe Correspondent and Globe Staff | November 20, 2005

A subsidiary of the Venezuelan national oil company will ship 12 million gallons of discounted home-heating oil to local charities and 45,000 low-income families in Massachusetts next month under a deal arranged by US Representative William D. Delahunt, a local nonprofit energy corporation, and Venezuela's president, White House critic Hugo Chávez.

The approximately $9 million deal will bring nine million gallons of oil to families and three million gallons to institutions that serve the poor, such as homeless shelters, said officials from Citizens Energy Corp., which is signing the contract. Families would pay about $276 for a 200-gallon shipment, a savings of about $184 and enough to last about three weeks.

The contract is to be signed Tuesday by officials from Citizens Energy, based in Boston, and CITGO, a Houston-based subsidiary of Petróleos de Venezuela SA. The contract was arranged after months of talks between Delahunt, a Quincy Democrat active in Latin American affairs, and Chávez, a leftist former paratrooper and fierce critic of the Bush administration.

''We recognized that we had an opportunity," Delahunt's spokesman, Steve Schwadron, said yesterday.
(snip/...)
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2005/11/20/thousands_in_mass_to_get_cheaper_oil/



Joseph Kennedy and William Delahunt meet the trucks the day of the first oil delivery in Boston.


Open Letter by Joseph Kennedy to critics of the oil deal:
Published on Sunday, December 24, 2006 by the Boston Globe
Yes, Oil From Venezuela
by Joseph P. Kennedy II

There's been a lot of controversy lately over whether Citizens Energy Corp. should distribute -- and the poor should accept -- discount heating oil from Venezuela while that country is under the leadership of President Hugo Chávez.

But those who have no problem staying warm at night should not condemn others for accepting Venezuela's oil. Rhetoric means little to an elderly woman who has to drag an old cot from her basement to sleep by the warmth of the open kitchen stove or give up food or medicine to pay her heating bill.

For nearly 30 years, Citizens Energy has provided senior citizens and low-income families with affordable fuel oil, gas, electricity, pharmaceutical drugs, and other basic necessities. Citgo Petroleum is a US company owned by the people of Venezuela. The oil it provides to Citizens Energy, the nonprofit that I lead, acts as a safety net for hundreds of thousands.

When our partnership with Citgo was announced last year, US Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman praised the discount program as corporate philanthropy. "It's a charitable contribution," he said, "and I wish more companies did it." Charities like the Baseball Hall of Fame and the Muscular Dystrophy Association receive generous donations from Citgo, but no one is telling them to decline the gifts.

Meanwhile, oil companies other than Citgo have declined to share their record profits with those who most struggle to keep pace with rising energy costs.
(snip/...)
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1224-21.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Citizens Energy, Venezuelan-owned CITGO, Mayor’s Office Team Up For Low-Cost Heating Oil Program in Connecticut

Mayor John DeStefano, Jr. announced today the availability of discount heating oil for 24,000 low-income Connecticut households, along with an allotment for the state’s homeless shelters.

The heating oil program, a partnership between the non-profit Citizens Energy Corporation of Boston and Venezuelan-owned CITGO Petroleum Corporation, will provide a once-a-season delivery of up to 200 gallons of heating oil at 40% off retail price to families qualifying for federal fuel assistance.

Connecticut becomes the eighth and final state this winter to benefit under the initiative launched last November by CITGO, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of Petroleo de Venezuela, the national oil company of the Latin American nation. The Connecticut program was launched as a result of Mayor DeStefano’s work with CITGO and Citizens Energy to bring the initiative to Connecticut families struggling to shoulder the rising costs of heating oil this winter.

“I am delighted that the program is underway,” DeStefano said. “This is an effective safety net for people who are still struggling to heat their homes.”
(snip/...)
http://www.cityofnewhaven.com/Mayor/ReadMore.asp?ID=%7B08A1A29B-2246-4DE9-BB7A-D2610D97E99A%7D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maine tribes meet with Venezuela for low-cost heating oil
Posted: December 16, 2005
by: Brenda Norrell / Indian Country Today

PORTLAND, Maine - American Indian leaders from four tribes in Maine met with representatives of the Venezuelan Embassy and became the first tribes in the nation to begin working out details for the delivery of low-cost heating oil to tribal members.

Aroostook Band of Micmacs Chief Bill Phillips praised Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez for his offer to bring discounted heating oil to the United States, and Venezuelan Embassy officials for following through on Chavez's offer.

''We appreciate Chavez trying to bring low-cost heating oil for our elderly. We're thinking: He is a fellow Native from the Americas, and we appreciate his taking the time and effort to do some good,'' Phillips told Indian Country Today.

Venezuelan Embassy officials met Dec. 13 with representatives of four tribes: the Aroostook Micmacs, the Houlton Band of Maliseet Indians, the Passamaquoddy Tribe at Pleasant Point and the Penobscot Indian Nation.
(snip/...)
http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1096412127

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tuesday, February 14, 2006
It’s Real: Venezuela’s Oil Arrives in Delaware

This has been a day of ironies.

Today when USA government announced it would to further enrich USA big oil companies by allowing them to pump, this time royalty-free, about $65 billion worth of oil and natural gas from federal lands, the CEO of the Venezuelan-owned oil company CITGO pulled a hose from a CITGO truck and provided free heating oil to the Martha House 2 homeless shelter in Wilmington, Delaware.

After a week of reading and listening to Delaware elected officials bemoan but basically accept the 60% increase in energy prices that Delmarva Power will charge to multiple thousands of Delawareans, today I listened to local activist Richard Korn briefly describe how he transformed—of all things—an art show into an opportunity for poor Delawareans to purchase 1 million gallons of heating oil at a 40% discount.
(snip/...)
http://delawarewatch.blogspot.com/2006/02/its-real-venezuelas-oil-arrives-in.html

Final edit:
To avoid a very long post, here's a list of all the 16 states, and reference to 163 Native American tribes:
The program has been extended to the following 16 states:
Alaska, Connecticut, Delaware, the District of Columbia, Indiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Greater Philadelphia, Greater Pittsburgh, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia and Wisconsin. CITGO is also providing discount oil directly to 163 Native American tribes in the states of Alaska, Maine, Minnesota and New York.
http://www.citgo.com/CommunityInvolvement/HeatingOil.jsp
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #51
62. Thanks.
Now I see that even socialists can approve of whoring oneself to an oil company under the right circumstances.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. What? Do you even think you're making sense?
Edited on Sun Mar-04-07 04:40 PM by Judi Lynn
On edit:

You've moved the goal posts from here in your post:
In the mean time, I tried to find even a clue that 16 states petitioned Chavez for cheap heating oil, and found nothing that either supported or disputed that claim.
to this completely baffling remark about a whore.

Don't see how you get off calling someone a whore just because you're not getting any traction.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. You and I have defined ourselves quite clearly.
How much more do you need?

I require nothing else.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. I'm sure you're right. By the way, if you're aiming that "whore" word at me,
forget it. I have never been called a "whore" by anyone in my lifetime, and I don't think you want to pretend it fits me.

At first I thought you meant Chavez, then I thought maybe you mean the Democratic Congressmen, in which case you shouldn't be hanging around a Democratic message board designed for Democrats and other progressives, but if you're dragging "ourselves" into it, I'm afraid you're attempting to go after me, now.

Hey, hell, I didn't ask for this kind of abuse! I'm outta here! Help!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BushOut06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #33
47. Once again - being anti-Bush does NOT mean being anti-United States
I don't care what ANY of those articles state. I'm sure you can pull up several dozen other articles calling Chavez "anti-American". That is complete, total, and utter bullshit. Yes, Chavez is anti-Bush. How exactly does that make him anti-America? Do you suppose there might just be a reason that he's anti-Bush?

I've made plenty of anti-Bush statements. Do you think that I am anti-American? What about everyone else here at DU who has made anti-Bush statements? We've said things far worse than what Chavez has said. Are we ALL anti-American?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. Agreed, and I never equated the two.
My point is that Chavez accuses the US of being "imperialist" in its policies. This is a complaint not unique to Chavez and, given the situation in Iraq, hard to dispute. However, I guarantee that Chavez will not suddenly drop this label if and when we ever get out of Iraq.

Chavez is one of dozens of attention hungry third world leaders who stir up the emotions of their voter base by crapping on the US in high profile international forums.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mr Rabble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. This must be a piss take? You cant be serious?
Iraq is not even the latest example of American imperialism. It is however the most obvious, and therefore difficult to ignore.

Buzz, we have more than 700 military bases in over a hundred countries. I'm not talking about embassies, or skeleton offices; I am talking about full blown military installations.

If you honestly think that we are not "imperialist" in our policies, than you are either willfully ignorant, or being facetious.

Whether you like the policies of Hugo Chavez or not has absolutely nothing to do with the truth about our "Empire".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Good god. How discussions morph!
Look, I never said we weren't imperialistic. Hells bells, we've even tried to meddle in Chavez's own administration.

Let's take it all the way back to the OP: the question was why do rightwingers (and the occasional foolish DUer) dislike Chavez? Well, I answered the question: we don't like Chavez repeatedly taking the international stage to crap all over us all the time. It's that simple.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mr Rabble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Stay focused now Buzz-
Here is your quote-
"My point is that Chavez accuses the US of being "imperialist" in its policies. This is a complaint not unique to Chavez and, given the situation in Iraq, hard to dispute. However, I guarantee that Chavez will not suddenly drop this label if and when we ever get out of Iraq.

Chavez is one of dozens of attention hungry third world leaders who stir up the emotions of their voter base by crapping on the US in high profile international forums."

Looks like you did indeed imply that we are not imperialist. You see Buzz, by saying that Chavez "accuses" us of being imperialist, you have just attempted to slur him.

Now I have no problem with you not liking him, and/or disagreeing with his policies, but you have clearly gotten in over your head here. You have made lots of assertions about what an awful guy Chavez is, without being able to articulate your reasoning, and support it with facts.

That is a problem.

Of course you could clearly just say, "I just don't like the guy" but then that would be totally ignorant.

Isn't there some saying about shovels, holes, and digging?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #56
61. Ok. Here it is:
I really, really dislike Hugo Chavez. He despises everything this country stands for, and he says as much every time he gets a microphone and/or camera in front of him. He is a cheap, two-bit third world wannabe. Clear enough?

You read into this and any other post I put up anything you like because pleasing your is very low on my list of priorities. If you want to insist that I said we aren't imperialist, go for it.

My position on Chavez will not change regardless of the games you play with parsing my posts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #61
67. And yet you cannot document one such statement.
"He despises everything this country stands for, and he says as much every time he gets a microphone and/or camera in front of him."

Odd that is.

"My position on Chavez will not change regardless of the games you play with parsing my posts."

Indeed as your position is not fact based.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #31
66. Won't do newsmax.
So as for the SFC article - read the whole damn thing and there is not one quote in it attributed to Chavez that is anti-american. There are several examples of Chavez calling that fucking idiot in the white house names:


In a nationally televised speech March 19, he seemed as if he wanted to pick a schoolyard fight with the U.S. president: "You are ignoramus, you are a burro, Mr. Danger ... or to say it to you in my bad English," he said, switching languages with an exaggerated accent, "you are a donkey, Mr. Danger. You are a donkey, Mr. George W. Bush."

As his audience tittered with nervous laughter, he returned to Spanish. "You are a coward, a killer, a genocider, an alcoholic, a drunk, a liar, an immoral person, Mr. Danger. You are the worst, Mr. Danger. The worst of this planet. ... A psychologically sick man, I know it."


I agree completely with Chavez here, don't you?

So where are those quotes of Chavez saying anti american things, rather than simply criticizing our foreign policy or taunting DumbAss?

Is it your assertion that anyone who criticizes our frequently contemptible foreign policy is by definition anti-american?

I wish the rest of the leaders of the nations of this planet would treat That Idiot In the White House with the contempt that Chavez has shown him. Perhaps then we might get a fucking clue through our fat stupid american heads.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BushOut06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Straw man alert
"Chavez love fest"? Since when did defending someone against vicious personal attacks become a "love fest"? Without relying on right-wing propaganda, can you name one single reason why we should oppose Chavez?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. It doesn't work that way. If you make a claim, it's your responsibility to back it up.
YOU are the one who has claimed Chavez is anti-US. Back it up with proof. We'll wait.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #4
21. It won't be long before the poor
in the US wake up and understand the real agenda of the right wing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. Yeah, sure.
Is it your opinion that the GOP is made up of nothing but the filthy rich? That the wealthiest 0.01% is somehow electing presidents?

Maybe someday the poor will wake up, but it won't be in this century.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. The filthy, and it is FILTHY rich controls the propaganda, does it not?
It's very easy to "mold public perception" among the semi-literate, and lazy who won't go to the trouble to pay attention and to read and to try to find out more than what Fox News and similar operations tell them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Venezuela elected him, and they can have him.
If they like what he's doing at home, they should continue to re-elect him.

However, his face as an international diplomat is one of just another red-faced, shrill America-hating jackass. Yes, yes, I'm real sure you find his hatred of the US justified, but it doesn't change the fact that, as a diplomat, he's a jackass.

And you love him. Goodie.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BushOut06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #6
19. Chavez hates the US so much, he's willing to supply our poor with cheaper gas
Are you sure he hates the United States as a whole? Or perhaps it's this administration that he hates? I have NEVER heard him say anything bad about this country. I have, however, heard him say many things about our "leader" - although I've heard FAR WORSE here on DU. Using your logic, you're saying that anyone on DU who says anything bad about Bush hates this country. Is that about the gist of it?

Why would Chavez, who purportedly hates this country so much, offer oil at a reduced price directly to our poorer citizens? And who blocked such sales? Tell me, who's the "bad guy" in this situation?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. This argument again.
Chavez does that as a divisive measure to give the Bush administration the finger. And, when a Democrat is elected in 2008, he'll do the same.

Is it your twisted opinion that Chavez feels some sort of kinship with the Democrats? Keep that thought, and see how it plays out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. Chavez has done it because DEMOCRATS ASKED HIM FOR HELP. PERIOD.
If you took the time to do any thinking, to simply be aware of what you hear and read, if anything, you'd know this.

DEMOCRATS ASKED HIM FOR HELP. 16 states, and over 100 Native American tribes ASKED HIM FOR HELP after the oil companies turned them away when they approached them for help for their needy constituents who desperately needed help to stay warm for the winter, for TWO winters in a row.

Take time to inform yourself. The material is there. All that's missing is your attention.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. No clue? It's pretty early in the morning for rude insults.
Is that the best you can offer?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Did you have any specific complaints?
So far you have informed us that we are Chavez idolizers and that it seems Chavez is a bad diplomat who hates the United States. On the latter charge, do you have any actual evidence that Chavez hates the United States? I seem to recall a rather funny speech he gave at the UN where he called that idiot in the white house 'the devil', is that what you are referring to? Do you consider that fucking asshole Bush to be identical to the United States?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
36. Dude---let me give you a small bit of advice
when debating---never---and I mean never provide a newsmax link to bolster your argument. mho
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. I'll never forget the way NewsMax got into public awareness, considering most people
wouldn't be caught dead going there. It was when Elián Gonazalez had been taken to Georgetown to stay, after being rescued from his drunken great-uncle in Miami who refused to comply with court orders and hand him over to his father.

They were waiting in Georgetown for the final court measures to be concluded, and someone threw a dinner in the backyard for Elián, his family, and his friends from Cuba, and his teacher and doctor who came here. A neighbor somehow got into the mix when someone took photos from her upstairs window overlooking their fence, and published them in NewsMax.

They wrote an unbelievable story, with tales of Elián's father drunk (at a party in Washington, with the lawyers and politicians, for crying out loud? I doubt THAT!), and neglect of the child at the picnic, and then claimed the house was owned by someone who is a Santería (form of voodoo?) worshipper, based on their claim there was a secret Santería image in the yard.

When people saw what it was they were claiming was a Santería figure, they discovered they were looking at a LAWN GNOME, for Christ's sakes, like this:

What unbearable ASSHOLES.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #39
49. Ah, ha ha ha. This should bring back memories of NewsMax's great journalistic score:
Two fascinating accounts:
http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2000/6/19/200106

With Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com Staff
For the story behind the story...

Monday June 19, 2000 9:09 PM EST

Neighbor: Elian Victimized by Voodoo

It was bad enough that Elian Gonzalez’s first venture out from
his detention at the Wye Plantation was to the Georgetown home of
wealthy donors to the Democratic Party.

Elian is, no doubt, a trophy for the Democratic Party and for
Castro.

Apparently, the Cuban government wants to pay homage to its pagan
gods for its custody of little Elian.

Yesterday Elian, his family and an entourage of Cuban officials
were escorted to the Silver Spring, Md., home of a
Cuban-American.

The next-door neighbor forwarded NewsMax.com pictures of the
event. The neighbor insists the Gonzalez party was participating
in Santeria activities.

Santeria is an Afro-Cuban religion in which animal sacrifices are
performed regularly to help the practitioner succeed in his
endeavors.

It has long being rumored that Castro and his thugs are involved
in these practices that some refer to as voodoo.

Another NewsMax.com reader also witnessed the Santeria conclave
yesterday and reported, "Based on what I saw and heard, I believe
the information provided by the next-door neighbor with respect
to Santeria activity is reliable."

He continued: "I can tell you that the sound of the drums was
deafening at times, and that Juan Miguel was drinking heavily.
The neighbor also pointed out a Santeria relic visible through
the window of the house. All this activity took place under the
noses of the U.S. Marshals Service and INS agents.

"... practically the entire staff of the Cuban Interests Section
was present at this event, including persons suspected of having
participated in the attack on peaceful demonstrators in
Washington, D.C., on April 14, 2000. Cuban diplomatic cars were
parked all along the street during this five-hour gathering."
(snip)
http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg44879.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

More:
Exclusive: Photos Reveal Elian's Day Out
NewsMax.com
Monday, June 19, 2000
Yesterday Elian, his father and their Cuban entourage attended a Father’s Day outing at the home of a man identified in the press as a "Cuban diplomat." The man resides on Connecticut Avenue in Silver Spring, Md. A NewsMax.com reader lives next door and took photos and offered commentary. We are publishing this information for the benefit of our readers (please click on the links to see the pictures indicated):
From the Neighbor:

"These photos were taken in a hurry and through the window of one the bedrooms of my sister's house. I just wanted to post them as soon as possible. Please, forgive the quality of some of the photos, but there wasn't much time to prepare for this.

"In one photo, Elian can be seen through the bushes holding a box. While most of the kids played in the backyard of the house, Elian was not allowed to be in the backyard for anymore than a few minutes at a time.

"Even though he tried to get out several times, he was prevented from so doing.

"In another photo it can be appreciated to the left of the Central AC unit, what appears to be a Gargoyle like figurine. It is a Santeria Deity, plain and simple. It used to be located by the main entrance of the house on the steps leading to the front door. Some have said that it is an effigy representing Eleggua, the opener of the roads in the Santeria pantheon of deities.

"I am thouroghly convinced that Divine Providence is at work here. For Elian to wind up next door to a Cuban family while visiting a Cuban house can't be considered a coincidence. A Higher Power is at Work here.
(snip/...)
http://www.newsmax.com/articles/?a=2000/6/19/95231

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #36
48. Sorry, but I didn't notice it was NewsMax.
It was simply relevant. Granted, NewsMax is generally a pile of steaming shit, and one would be ill advised to do such a thing (my bad for trying to squeeze in a Google search when the dog was complaining of a serious need to pee).

So, screw the second link. I still find it laughable that anyone would think that Hugo Chavez has anything but hostility for this country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #48
77. Fortunately, many of us don't agree with you. Everyone knows Bush is not
"this country," with the exception of a few slower ones among us.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mr Rabble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. BZZZT! Wrong answer, sorry.
I did not offer any "love" or "idolizing".

It does not surprise me at all that he is continually bashed. In fact, that is the entire reason for my post.
In case you missed it, the general population of Venezuela is overwhelmingly in favor of Chavez's policies. So, then it stands to reason that the AP should be cheering him on, not using the 2% to bash him.

But you already knew this right?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
25. I do love Hugo.
Edited on Sun Mar-04-07 12:55 PM by roody
It is not possible for me to hear him speak with so much love and not love him in return. I hope to meet him someday. Check out his speech in New York archived on Democracy Now. It is even richer in Spanish than in the translated English. I can't find it in their archives. He spoke at Riverside Church some years ago. He is full of love.

This is not the speech I am thinking of, but this is good I think it was this trip. http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/09/19/1336214&mode=thread&tid=25
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I recall hearing about that speech. I believe I heard the place was CROWDED, too.
Just found a translation of the speech here:
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1555

There's also a video of the speech for Spanish speakers under the photo of Chavez speaking, wearing a suit:
http://vforvenezuela.blogspot.com/2005_09_01_vforvenezuela_archive.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Muchisimas gracias. That is the speech I was thinking of.
Edited on Sun Mar-04-07 12:59 PM by roody
His loving nature first impressed me watching Adele Guevara's film Chavez and the New Latin America.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #28
37. Didn't know she made a film, Only knew about the book. Thanks a lot. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
10. Where's the jingoistic nationalistic anti-immigrant crowd now???
Aren't these light-skinned, smoothly cultured businessmen, politicians, military and professionals going to be stealing the jobs and lowering the wages of OUR OWN businessmen, politicians, military and professionals???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
20. Here come the "hit and run" posters, who have nothing to contribute to anyone's
understanding of South American politics, history, relations with the U.S., economy or people, who never seem able to write more than two short sentences--always dissing Chavez and thus everyone who voted for him, works in his government, or is benefiting from his policies--and who attempt to poison threads about South America by describing any and all positive comments about Chavez or his ideas as "Chavez worship," or coming from"Chavez lovers." White bigots used to spit the phrase "nigger lover" at anyone who supported civil rights and equality for black citizens. I had this phrase spit in my face in the 1960s as a civil rights worker in the south. This is exactly what it feels like to open a thread on the subject of Chavez, Venezuela or South America, and be immediately faced with the accusation that, if I say anything positive about Chavez here, or in any way try to counter the vile war profiteering corporate news monopolies and their efforts to create Chavez hatred and a US political context in which he can be more easily assassinated, and in which Venezuelan and South American democracy can more easily be destabilized and destroyed, and in which South American peasants, leftists, union organizers, teachers, community leaders, indigenous and all advocates of the people can be tortured, raped, 'disappeared,' thrown out of airplanes, and buried in mass graves, without objection in our country, I am a "Chavez lover" (read "nigger lover").

If you wish to know more about Chavez and the Bolivarian revolution, www.venezuelanalysis.com is a good place to start. I urge all DUers to resist bigotry and stupidity, and the poisoned atmosphere that certain posters in this wide open forum try to create about Chavez, by their short, ugly "hit and run" posts.

They might as well be Rush Limbaugh or Michael Savage or Ann Coulter--or "Bull" Connor. That is the nature of their thinking process, and the level of their contribution to human discourse.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. It must have been the wording. The very same hate word crashed into my mind, instantly, as well.
That makes two people who got the same impression at the same time.

It has been used liberally by people who are anything but liberal themselves. Attacks on the Democatic posters themselves for daring to support the democratic movement in the world toward finding their own leaders, and crawling out from under the bootheel of the right-wing American Presidents, and their death squads, economic games, destabilization campaigns, and ungodly expense of U.S. taxpayers' money in destroying popular Latin American and Caribbean Presidents since 1954 Guatemala, and probably earlier.

When they start attacking Democratic posters for supporting democratic causes, you know where they're "coming from."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. Oh please
Now saying "Chavez lover" is equivalent to a disgusting racial epithet? Give me a break.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. Attack the material, do NOT attack the poster. Common sense.
Don't call anyone a ####-lover in a political discussion, and you can't go wrong.

Use your mind, discuss the material, draw on your information, and FORGET attacking other posters. Don't even consider trying to imply they are infatuated with others, implying things which have nothing whatsoever to do with the poltical matter under discussion.

Stick to the facts, don't attack Democrats here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
22. It was a shock back in November seeing the right-wing Washington Times
begrudgingly publish articles about Venezuela's selling heating oil to WASHINGTON D.C.'s poor, in addition to 16 states, and over 100 Native American tribes.

Here's a link:
VENEZUELA TO SELL D.C. OIL AT DISCOUNT
Thursday, November 02, 2006 - FreeMarketNews.com

Venezuela will provide heavily discounted heating oil to about 37,000 low-income families in Maryland, Virginia and the District this winter, Caracas' envoy to the United States said yesterday. The local jurisdictions are beneficiaries of a greatly expanded program that this winter will assist more than 400,000 families in 16 U.S. states and the District, up from eight states and 180,000 families last year, said Ambassador Bernardo Alvarez Herrera. Oil provided under the expanded program, first mentioned by President Hugo Chavez during a fiery speech to the United Nations in September, will be distributed through local governments, community centers and churches, and will be offered at 40 percent below the market price. - The Washington Times
(snip)
http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=25207

That must have made Rev. Sun Myung Moon's (right-wingers diseased self-annointed god figure) paper mad with rage to have to admit this.

Lest anyone forget, it has been DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMEN, Governors, Mayors who have approached American oil companies originally to secure discounted heating oil for their struggling constituents, only to be blown off unceremoniously, who have finally gone to Venezuela to ask for Venezuela's help, considering Venezuela has been offering the same arrangement to countries in the Caribbean, and Latin America. These DEMOCRATS worked out the deals for their states, cities, citizens, while, as you can see, total ASSHOLES, right-wingloons continue to rave, rant, drool, howl about how much they dispise the Venezuelan people's choice for their OWN Venezuelan President, as if it's their business.

Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #22
38. What Chavez has done for the poor is something few could ignore.
Most of the attacks now are centered around methodology, as opposed to his economic policies with respect to social programs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Exactly
I think his programs that help the poor are a good thing.

I think everything else he does is becoming a great disaster.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Maybe you could list something he has done which has become a great disaster.
If you've got the information to back that up, you'd be doing everyone a favor by posting it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #44
55. Here are some sources
AI Summary Report 2005: Venezuela

Political polarization continued to destabilize Venezuela. There were violent confrontations between supporters of the opposition and the security forces throughout the country. Scores of people were killed and injured. Hundreds more were detained amid allegations of excessive use of force and torture and ill-treatment. There were reports of unlawful killings of criminal suspects. Relatives and those who witnessed abuses were threatened and intimidated. The lack of independence of the judiciary remained a concern. Attempts were made to undermine the legitimacy of the work of human rights defenders.

More: http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/ven-summary-eng


Venezuela: Hugo Chávez’s Revolution
Press Release - International Crisis Group

Bogotá/Brussels, 22 February 2007: Venezuela is at risk of serious internal conflict if President Hugo Chávez continues to polarise society and dismantle the checks and balances of representative democracy after his recent landslide re-election.

Venezuela: Hugo Chávez’s Revolution, the latest report from the International Crisis Group, examines what that overwhelming victory in December and Chávez’s “Bolivarian Revolution” mean for one of the world’s major oil producing countries. After eight years in power and despite his repeated electoral successes, Chávez faces serious challenges: there is growing frustration with spiralling crime, government inefficiency, excessive spending and corruption, and polarisation in the body politic has reached historic proportions. There are also concerns in the region that the ex-colonel is willing to sacrifice democratic principles to advance his agenda. Under the guise of “direct” or “participatory” democracy, Chávez has progressively weakened the checks and balances of the political system.

“Chávez has created a regime that is not yet a dictatorship but is developing strong autocratic tendencies, has suborned the military, taken control of the judiciary and the electoral commission and passed laws that can be used to intimidate and muzzle the press”, says Markus Schultze-Kraft, Crisis Group’s Colombia/Andes Project Director. “All the levers of power can be operated by his hand and his hand alone”.

More: http://www.harolddoan.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3752


Inflation, food scarcity roil Venezuela
Economists say the government is overreaching in controlling prices, fueling a black market.

CARACAS, VENEZUELA — Police swooped down last week on a grimy central market district, forced open a warehouse and seized 7 tons of a white substance. It wasn't cocaine. The contraband was sugar, and the seizure of at least 184 tons nationwide showed how President Hugo Chavez's efforts to remake the economy are fraying at the edges.

The bust near the Quinta Crespo market came as double-digit inflation and scarcity have hit Venezuela's markets. The seizures were efforts to strike at what one Chavez supporter, Carabobo Gov. Luis Felipe Acosta, said was hoarding by "terrorist capitalists who want to destroy the country."

But economists and industry officials describe the raids as the latest in a sequence of hamhanded, politically motivated attempts to rein in market forces beyond Chavez's control. Inflation and the development of a huge underground market in goods including sugar were simply symptoms of mismanagement, they say.

More: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-inflate11feb11,1,1681206.story?coll=la-headlines-world
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #55
63. Your last one, food scarcity, is a result of food industry people trying to play hardball,
using the poor of Venezuela as hostages. They are determined to resist price controls, and they are going to be brought into line, one way or another, through legal measures.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Your second one is a complete, deliberate jumbling of the elements, designed for propaganda purposes. Period.
Here is "home" for your source:
We work with a major corporate finance and funding advisory company with associates in Asia, Europe and the US.

Funding is available for both private and public sector projects.
(snip)
Not a Democratic source, but rather a 100% capitalitic, business, right-wing source.

Your source takes his material from the think tank with these contributors, which includes USAID, which is completely controlled by the Bush administration:
http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=1151&l=1

What is the ICG?

The International Crisis Group is an allegedly independent think-tank based in Brussels. It has cells in various crisis-afflicted countries, where it functions as both an analyst and "watchdog." Along with Human Rights Watch, the ICG is the world’s most powerful and pervasive interventionist organization. Its board of directors includes former ambassadors, governmental advisors, corporate executives, and retired generals. It is funded by the most powerful benefactors in America: a few include the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation; the Carnegie Corporation; George Soros’ Open Society Institute, Mutual of America, and the MacArthur Foundation, as well as 14 world governments, and a slew of influential individuals.

In Macedonia, the ICG maintains a small yet voluble mission, headed by American career peacemaker Edward Joseph. Although all ICG missions are known for being shrill and abrasive, Joseph’s operation takes the cake. As one European high official recently put it, "his arrogant, know-it-all attitude has made him very unpopular not only amongst the locals, but with many in the international community as well." Joseph’s partisan agenda has endangered both the respectability of the ICG as an institution, and even the stability of Macedonia itself.
(snip)

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/deliso52.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


You're going to need to go through that Amnesty article, and find the part which indicates Hugo Chavez is responsible for human rights violations, or responsible for directing violations to be committed by anyone else. Find the material, and post it. We can't do your work for you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. The world would have vanished long ago if people actually waited for right-wingers
to keep everything running.

How far would they get with only a few insanely wealthy idiots with their well-paid mercenaries riding herd over a vast pool of desperately poor but completely broken down, utterly helpless, subservient people doing all the work for them?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #42
52. You just defined feudalism.
Edited on Sun Mar-04-07 02:51 PM by Selatius
If there's one thing Chavez has failed to do, it is to establish more worker co-ops. I heard he established roughly 100,000 worker co-ops. He should work to double or triple that number. In fact, he or anybody else serious in implementing something like market socialism should not stop until every worker who wishes to enjoy the fruits of his own labor is able to organize or join an existing co-op. Introducing workers to co-ops is a good way to give them that taste of control over their own affairs. Those who wish to remain in the private sector, as opposed to a co-op sector, should be allowed to continue to work for private sector firms, but those who wish to move into the co-op sector would also have the choice as well.

In time, the labor supply with respect to private sector firms will be restricted as a good percentage of workers are attracted into the co-op sector. This creates a situation where private sector employers must compete for a limited supply of labor, forcing private sector employers to offer better pay and benefits in order to retain any private sector labor who hasn't already moved into the co-op sector.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
23. Eeeeek!!! A country not run by corporations!! What will the poor CEO's do?
Just think what would happen in 'Murka if that happened!!!

It might become a "government, of the people, by the people, for the people"!!

Oh, the horror!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
57. And, now, finally, as to the substance of this OP and the Associated Press "news" article...
The first thing to know about AP articles on Chavez is that they closely follow Bush Junta "talking points" and are part of what appears to be a coordinated effort of the Bush Junta State Department and the war profiteering corporate news monopolies to create certain IMPRESSIONS about Chavez and Venezuela--

Thus we have had floods of AP "news" reports following up on the Bush State Dept. "talking point" that Chavez is "increasingly authoritarian"--always framed this way: "according to his critics"--never a quoted source.* These generally have followed an election that Chavez won big (and he has won several, including the US-funded (your tax dollars) wasteful and stupid recall election, two years ago. The Bush State Dept. and AP were trying to cover up the fact that Venezuelan elections are far, far more transparent than our own--which currently have no transparency whatsoever--and that the REAL "authoritarians" in Venezuela are the rightwing fascists in the military, and in the business community, allied with, and directly funded by the Bush Junta (your tax dollars), working in cooperation with US-based global corporate predators, to overthrow Venezuela's democracy and install a rightwing dictatorship in Venezuela.

These bastards almost succeeded in 2002. A military coup kidnapped Chavez from Miraflores Palace (the seat of government), and suspended the elected National Assembly (i.e., Congress), the Supreme Court and all lawful officers of the government. Venezuelans were outraged at this violation of their Constitution, and one million Venezuelans flooded into the streets of Caracas and surrounded Miraflores Palace, demanding--and it was the first thing on everyone's lips--the restoration of Constitutional government, and the return of their elected president. Meanwhile, all the "Faux" News stations in Venezuela--owned and controlled by rich corporatists, as here--were cheering the coup on, and spreading disinformation to the public and to the rank and file military. It was the presence of the million people in the streets, and the defection of most of the military from the coup (including the presidential guard--i.e., the Secret Service), that turned the tide. Chavez was returned to the palace unharmed, after three days in captivity. He subsequently took almost no retaliatory actions against those who had participated in the coup. A few officers were dismissed from the military. I think two were jailed. The political leaders are still at large. Some of them are still in politics. And his government has decided not to renew the license to use the public airwaves of ONE of the many TV stations that helped to create such disorder in their country--RCTV (which directly supported the coup, and hosted meetings of the plotters). (See "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised"--great documentary on all this, by an Irish film crew who happened to be present while it happened.)

It is these rightwing assholes and Bush who are the "authoritarians." Not Chavez, nor his millions of supporters. It is THEY who hold utter contempt for lawful government, as we have seen, time and again, with the Bush Junta here in the U.S. And, in so far as any Venezuelans who are seeking to live in the U.S. share such views of government--that it should be dictatorial, and favor their well-padded pocketbooks--then it does not surprise me at all that Bush-controlled U.S. immigration authorities and rightwing, anti-Castro Cubans welcome them with open arms to Miami.

"Those who come (from Venezuela) are received with open arms in Miami, where their money is welcome and the Cuban exile community views Chavez as the next Fidel Castro."--AP

Which brings me to the second big Bush State Dept. "talking point"--that Chavez is a friend of Fidel Castro. Chavez is also friends with Evo Morales, the democratically elected president of Bolivia--and the first 100% indigenous ever to hold that office. He is friends with Nestor Kirchner, the democratically elected president of Argentina (who helped free Argentina from onerous World Bank debt, and put Argentina on a fast track to recovery, after near decimation by World Bank/IMF policy). He is friends with Rafael Correa, the recently elected president of Ecuador--a US-educated leftist economist with close ties to the indigenous community. He is friends with Lula da Silva, the former steelworker president of Brazil, who led the third world revolt at the WTO meeting in Cancun a few years ago, and who visited Chavez last December, two weeks before the Venezuelan election (which Chavez won with 63% of the vote), for the opening of the new Orinoco Bridge between Venezuela and Brazil. Chavez is friends with MANY political and social leaders in Latin America. Why is the re-integration of Cuba into the economies of its brethren Latin American countries, and Chavez's friendship with this old revolutionary, Castro, such a thorn up the butts of the Bush Junta and of AP, such that they mention it virtually every time they mention Chavez, in any context--'ChavezfriendofFidelCastro'--to the exclusion of all his other friendships and associations?

Well, it's obvious. There Cuba sits, ikon to the success of communism, this tiny island, the only place where communism ever worked out very well--probably because of its Latin cultural flavor. A mild dictatorship--rocked by US sanctions, and threatened with US invasion for the entirety of its 40+ year history. A place where everybody eats, everybody has medical care, everyone has a place to live and useful employment, and everyone gets a free university education if they want it. A place with one of the best medical educations in the world--free of charge. A place with one of the highest literacy rates, and lowest infant mortality rates, in Latin America. Could be some lessons to be learned there, about what government should be doing, about fairness and equity. Why NOT be friends with Cuba? Cuba may revere Castro, and hold elections only for lower level government officials. But how is this less democratic than, say, the U.S., where rightwing Bushite electronic voting corporations now "count" all the votes with 'trade secret,' proprietary programming code, and where SEVENTY-FOUR PERCENT of the people want Bush's heinous war on Iraq ended, and the leaders in the White House ignore them, and feel zero accountability to the people, and where Congress, for all its Democratic coloration, can't do anything about it?

Which country's government is more responsive to its people--the U.S. or Cuba? Who, really, is suffering the most from "authoritarian" government--the U.S., which has seen the near destruction of its Constitution, the destruction of transparent elections, and hideous policies of torture, war and massive theft by the rich--or Cuba? It is arguable that Cuba is actually a better democracy than the U.S. Yet it is used almost as an epithet ('Castro loving'--read 'nigger loving'--Hugo Chavez). (--much like the "hit and run" posters here at DU, who use "Chavez-lover"--read 'nigger lover'--to try to shut down rational thought about the peaceful, democratic Bolivarian revolution).

"Increasingly authoritarian" = Hugo Chavez. "Castro-loving" = Hugo Chavez. Hammered home over and over and over again, at every opportunity--to the exclusion of all other facts about Chavez and his government, and its many supporters.

The other Bush State Dept. "talking points"--that Venezuela, one of the most democratic countries in the western hemisphere, is somehow a menace to its neighbors, and is somehow "disturbing" South America in a bad way, are trotted out again and again. Venezuela's arms sales are dwelled upon. Most countries in the world purchase arms, and maintain a military. So what? It's a small part of Venezuela's budget. A Bush Junta State Dept. report blaming Venezuela for drug trafficking is issued and picked up by AP without a glimmer of skepticism--when it is Bush's paramilitary buds in Colombia who are the drug traffickers and also mass murderers. There is a big scandal about it right now in Colombia. This latter Bush State Dept. report was a transparent attempt to divert attention from the huge paramilitary drug trafficking and corruption scandals in two of the five countries that Bush is going to visit next week--Colombia and Guatemala, both with rightwing governments.

Many of these "talking points" are repeated in this article about anti-Chavez (read 'Republican,' Bushite) immigrants to Miami. I imagine that the reporter (Laura Wides-Munoz, "AP Hispanic Affairs Writer") had the Bush State Dept. "talking points" memo taped up on the wall next to her phone and computer, as she dialed around Miami seeking the right quotes to fit the "talking points."

Yes, I think it's that artificial, and that cynical, and that corrupt. Direct collusion between the Bush Junta and the war profiteering corporate news monopolies.

Anyone who trusts one word of this article--including its use of Bush provided statistics--is a fool. We also need to be profoundly distrustful of the choice of subject matter, the timing of the subject matter, the headline writing, and all aspects of its publication. AP is 100% untrustworthy on the topic of leftist governments in South America.

Want a laugh? Try this...

"As of 2004, Venezuelans tied with Germans and Canadians as the second biggest group of foreigners purchasing homes in Florida, according to the National Association of Realtors. Only the British bought more Florida homes."

The British? Hm-m. Fleeing Tony Blair?

----------------------------------

As to the reason for this utterly corrupt sort of "journalism"--and for the Bush Junta "concern" about Hugo Chavez--besides the obvious ones (neither Bush nor AP approves of poor people benefiting from their country's oil reserves; the Bush Cartel plunder of the Middle East is not going very well, and they have to find more oil profits; and they have their greedy eyes on the oil, gas, minerals and other resources in the neighboring Andean democracies of Bolivia and Ecuador, allies of Venezuela)--the main reason is probably that Chavez and his Bolivarianian revolution are inspiring plans for a South American "Common Market," in which US corporations would have to compete in a fair market. This is the most serious threat to Bushite interests--that South American countries would stand up for themselves, and assert principles of regional self-determination and cooperation, and would band together, for the benefit of their people. It was Simon Bolivar's dream (a "United States of South America"). A So. American Common Market is becoming more feasible and more realistic with every leftist (majorityist) electoral victory in South America. And the Corporate Rulers may be making their continued prop-up of the Bush/Cheney Junta contingent upon the Bush Junta's successful interference with these developments.

Bush's choice of countries to visit is interesting in this respect. He is naturally attracted to the righwing thuggery and corruption in Colombia and Guatemala. That is no surprise. But Brazil and Uruguay have left/center governments, not at all friendly to Bush, and populations that are as hostile to Bush as they are in any other South American country. The key may be a minor dispute between Brazil and Uruguay on some trade issues in Mercosur--the So. American trade group and probable prototype for a So. American Common Market. Bush will try "divide and conquer" tactics there, meanwhile conspiring with the worst elements of the fascist elites in South America, to overthrow all of these leftist governments. The Bushites won't succeed, but they can cause a lot of trouble, with their big draw on future American taxpayers' money.

Bush is also going to Mexico, where a huge leftist movement is under way, especially in Mexico City and southern Mexico. It will be interesting to see where Bush's entourage can safely travel in Mexico. And it would be interesting to be a fly on the wall in the Bush-Calderon discussions of the torture, rape, kidnapping, murders and disappearances of hundreds of community organizers, teachers and union leaders in Oaxaca. How does Abu Ghraib compare? Guantanamo Bay? Mexico's fascists have a lot of catching up to do.

There is one other reason why Hugo Chavez and all of his many leftist allies and supporters in Latin America are a big worry to Bush and to his global corporate predator buds. And that is that this democracy movement might spread to us up here in the north, where we, the people of the U.S., have the potential power to dismantle bad actor corporations, and seize their assets for the public good, and, at the least, to severely curtail them and their horrendous impacts on people and on the planet. It would be horrible, from their point of view, if we got the notion that business corporations should be operated in the public interest, and that the rich should pay fair taxes--and got inspired by the South American democracy movement, say, to restore transparent elections here.**

----------------------------------

*(I once tried to track down who actually said this about Chavez. Who were the "critics" of "according to his critics"? Who were they actually quoting that he is "increasingly authoritarian"? The only source I could find was an old rightwing Catholic cardinal in Venezuela, who spent his career in the Vatican finance office, and was fired by the Vatican during the fascist banking scandals of the 1980s. (The Vatican almost never fires anyone.) He regularly rails against Chavez, and is an embarrassment to the more liberal and Christian clergymen and women in Venezuela. HE said that Chavez is "increasingly authoritarian." Is this where our war profiteering corporate news monopolies are getting their information--from fascist and untrustworthy cardinals?)

**(I suspect that AP played a role in the theft of the 2004 election. All the votes that were fed from Bushite-controlled, secretly coded voting systems, to our TV screens--that were in such disharmony with the exit polls--were fed through one AP computer. Edison-Mitovksy--the news consortium exit pollster--then DOCTORED the exit polls (Kerry won) to force the exit polls to fit the results of the Bushite-controlled 'trade secret' vote counting formulas (Bush won). It all smells to high heaven, and AP was the middle link. And, considering AP's editorial policy--which appears to be dictated by the Bush Junta State Dept.--I would not be surprised at direct complicity.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mr Rabble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Thank you Peace Patriot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. Thanks for the reminder of that AP role in the last election. So many events have been flying
at us so quickly since the right-wing extremists stole the White House in 2000, that it appears it takes someone with a tremendous grasp of information to juggle that ball, too! I really, really envy your abilities. It's so important to remember AP's connection, not have it buried in the storm of crap thrown at us daily.

Concerning Ecuador, recently it's been making it into the news accounts we finally are seeing here that Colombia has been spraying the land over in their side of the border, and the citizens are wildly upset about it, as they are taking a hell of a lot of damage and destruction and it's not even from their own govenment. This is very ugly.

I have to wonder if this new twist in Colombia's behavior toward it's neighbor hasn't been created as a provocation to the new leftist President. It's definitely something to consider.

Here's a quick grab:
Ecuador to take Colombia coca spraying feud to World Court
The Associated PressPublished: February 10, 2007

QUITO, Ecuador: Ecuador's new leftist President Rafael Correa said Saturday he will take a dispute with neighboring Colombia over its aerial fumigations of coca crops along their shared border to the World Court.

Correa made his announcement in a radio address one day after Ecuador's foreign minister said that Colombia had agreed to stop aerial fumigations of illegal coca crops in the border area, the raw material used to make cocaine.

Ecuador says the herbicide glyphosate drifts across the border, killing legal crops and causing health problems.

"We will use a heavy hand against what we consider an aggression," Correa said. "We are going to bring Colombia before the World Court in the Hague for the damage the unilateral decision to bombard the border with glyphosate has caused."

Colombia agreed to suspend fumigations in late 2005, but resumed spaying along border in December last year, claiming coca growers had swarmed the area.

Former Ecuadorean President Alfredo Palacio recalled Ecuador's ambassador after Colombia refused to halt the spraying near the 10-kilometer (6-mile) buffer zone that was established in December 2005.

Colombian officials, under the protection of U.S.-supplied Black Hawk helicopters, have been spraying to eradicate the coca plants as part of a U.S.-supported effort to fight drug trafficking.
(snip/...)
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/02/10/america/LA-GEN-Ecuador-Colombia-Coca-Feud.php
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #59
72. The IHT--although often a cut or two above AP and some of the others--yet
falls prey to this kind of wording: "...spraying to eradicate the coca plants as part of a U.S.-supported effort to fight drug trafficking."

Where is the verification that this spraying is in any way connected to "fighting" drug trafficking--and not, say, to fat contracts between the Bush Junta and US chemical giants, and/or to protection of the illegal crops of rightwing fascist paramilitaries who kill leftists and disrupt democratic government with those profits ?

The article presumes that Bush Junta stated objectives are the real objectives. Assertions like this should be in quotes. Quote the asshole in the Bush Junta DEA who said so, or the Colombian "official" who echoed that hypocritical lie, so we know who is speaking.

But corporate journalists--which is pretty much equivalent these days to bad journalists--often slip and slide around these subjects in a way that fuzzes over and covers up the truth. They would never say, "The rightwing President of the U.S., George Bush." But they often say, "The leftwing President of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez." Why the difference? They would never say that the Colombian military, protected by U.S.-supplied Black Hawk helicopters, "under the guise of a U.S.-supported effort to fight drug trafficking, has been spraying farm lands, in order to clear off the peasants, so that the drug cartels can move in." But they unskeptically assert that the opposite is true--that the U.S. stated goal is genuine--without any evidence, and with no attribution--and furthermore, with ample evidence, everywhere you look in the Bush Junta government, of vast corruption and misuse of government contracting and government funds, and nefarious purposes. With IHT, I'd give them SOME benefit of the doubt (sloppiness, slippy-slideyness). If it was AP, I wouldn't (burnt by them once too often; they are bald-faced liars).

Part of the Corporate Ruler plan for third world countries is to destroy peasant life, grab all the land, and make everybody dependent on Monsanto and MacDonald's for food. The destruction of these farm lands by pesticides is an abomination. The people who are doing it--and especially the monsters behind that decision--really and truly deserve to be tried for crimes against humanity, and crimes against all life on earth. If we would simply decriminalize all drug use, and release all non-violent drug "criminals" from prison, we would, in one fell swoop, cut the costs of government by about one half nationwide (and be able to use those resources to much better purpose), and ELIMINATE the criminal drug trade here and in South America (and in Afghanistan as well). Our current policies are NUTS. They create crime, where there is no crime. They manufacture crime, just as the war profiteers now manufacture wars. It enrages me that our money is being used to poison farm land--as if the world can spare farm land!--and to pollute the bodies of poor farmers and their families, and poison and kill...butterflies, worms, good fungi, birds, bees, frogs, herbs, trees, all living things--and to pollute pristine drinking water. I don't care who has a coca crop there. THIS IS NOT THE WAY TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

And, yes, I think it is a provocation--by the U.S./Bush Junta and its Colombian military arm, against Rafael Correa's new government. This is WHY Bush wants $4 billion MORE from Congress to lard onto the Colombian military, paramilitaries and fascist plotters. This money (and the several billion already given to Colombia for military use) is meant to be used to cause trouble, to destabilize and to topple the democratic governments of Bolivia, Ecuador and Venezuela, and to prevent leftist (majorityist) victories in the next electon cycles in Peru and Paraguay. I have absolutely no doubt about this. Why else does the Bush Junta give our future money away--except to cause trouble, to the benefit of criminals and global corporate predators?


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #72
76. Also, there is the grudge Bush bears Correa concerning one of the promises
Rafael Correa made the people of Ecuador during his campaign: He's going to shut down the Manta Air Force Base when the lease expires, at the end of 2009. Here's a map, and look how strategic it is to a war-craving (only if it's OTHERS whose lives are at stake) loon like Bush....



The US is spending $62 million to expand and improve the Manta runway and build hangars, dormitories and a dining hall. The number of US servicemen assigned to Manta has risen to 125 and that figure will reach 400 after construction work is completed in October 2001. At that point, AWACS surveillance planes and tankers to refuel them will replace smaller Navy aircraft, allowing the US to monitor air and marine activity far into the Caribbean. That will allow resumption of US anti-drug surveillance flights which were cut by two-thirds when US forces evacuated Howard Air Force Base in Panama in 1999.
(snip)

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/manta.htm

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. Could you repost that on its own so I can recommend it?
That is a stunningly good essay on the 'situation' in Latin America. Thank you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #60
70. Great idea, Warren Stupidity. It was so good. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
otherlander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
69. I don't think it's a hit piece.
It says he's paying fair market value. :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
71. So is the article factually inaccurate? (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. The article is almost devoid of actual facts.
They don't get down to facts until about halfway through the piece. Their assertion of facts is that:


Between 2000 — a year after Chavez took office — and 2005, the number of Venezuelans living in the U.S. doubled to about 160,000, according to the latest U.S. Census numbers. Nearly half live in Florida.

But those numbers are deceptive.

In 2005, 10,645 Venezuelans received their green cards allowing them to live in the United States, almost doubling the 6,222 who received them in 2004, according to the latest Department of Homeland Security statistics.


Proving what? Think about those facts for a while and then get back to me about how they prove anything about the thesis of the article - that the democratic socilist programs of the Chavez regime are causing a panic flight of the filthy rich.

But it is tne very next sentence in th material I quoted above that betrays the author:
"And another 400,000 Venezuelans came to the United States in 2005 on business and tourism visas. It is unclear how many stayed."

The author of this piece is now engaged in simple propaganda and is using clearly bogus arguments (and invoking the domestically nurtured fear of 'illegals' as a subtheme, quite clever really) to make an unsusbstantiated case. "It is unclear how many stayed" - and it is unclear how many left, right? And it has nothing to do with the subject. In debate this would be called a non-sequitor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. It was hard to keep from weeping, reading of the woman who has "had" to stay
in her other house without her furniture, until I remembered the multitudes of Venezuelans who, because of the oligarchy, had to live without FOOD, and without EDUCATION, and certainly without MEDICAL TREATMENT, and you can forget DENTAL TREATMENT, not to mention a non-tin roof over their heads, and firm ground under their floors, and luxuries like electricity, etc.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. It reactivates accusations already launched in earlier times, to keep them fresh in the "minds"
of the easily influenced idiots who won't take the time to read and find out the facts,
Anecdotal evidence suggests even more are seeking to come here since Chavez's recent nationalization of Venezuela's largest telecommunications company and the electricity sector. The Venezuelan Congress also recently gave him special powers to decree laws for 18 months, and Chavez is threatening to expropriate supermarkets, stores and other businesses caught hoarding food or speculating on prices.
(snip)
while it over presents the emotional whinings of the wealthy Venezuelans who did NOT vote for the landslide-elected President.

The nationalization was described by sources in America as being "fair market value." No one was ripped off. Where's the beef with that? These businesses were formerly nationalized, anyway, before a President Carlos Andres Perez, who was impeached for corruption privatized them. They re-nationalized them.

The special powers? He had already had these powers on two other separate occassions, and relinquished them at the approrpiate, agreed upon time.

Several OTHER VENEZUELAN PRESIDENTS also used this option with not one peep from the idiots who are trying to create an uproar about it now, as those presidents were "business friendly" at the great expense of the Venezuelan people. Our oil companies did business with the oligarchy, and rewarded them, and the people suffered.

Yes, the article is inaccurate if it doesn't include all the information needed to have a clear picture. Half truths leading to suspicion, or misunderstanding constitute propaganda.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
78. I guess they just can't assassinate those troublesome peasants fast enough.
Political Violence in Rural Areas
Land reform measures introduced by the Chávez administration have brought a wave of violence against peasant leaders and beneficiaries of the reform. According to a report by the national human rights ombudsman in May 2006, 54 peasants were killed and 21 were wounded between 1999 and 2006 because of their activities in defense of land claims, particularly after the Land and Agricultural Development Act entered into force in 2001. According to the ombudsman, contract killers hired by landowners appear to have been responsible for most of the killings. The nongovernmental human rights organization PROVEA (Program of Education and Action on Human Rights) reached similar conclusions, although it found that military and police units were also responsible for some abuses against peasants.

Kidnappings and contract killings are common in the states of Zulia, Tachira, and Apure, where there are frequent cross–border incursions by Colombian guerrillas and paramilitaries. Impunity for these crimes has been the rule. According to the ombudsman’s report, 72 percent of the investigations conducted by prosecutors have not progressed beyond the preliminary stage. However, in October 2006 the attorney general announced that 56 individuals had been charged for killing peasants.


http://hrw.org/englishwr2k7/docs/2007/01/11/venezu14888.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC