HOLY CRAP -- My wife says I'm killing my 9-month old newborn... can you help me?

[freedom_please]

This Wednesday, I'm bringing my 9-month old child in
for a routine checkup. The visit includes a round of vaccinations.

Ever since the last doctor visit, my wife and I have
battled about giving our newborn vaccinations --
I'm concerned the Mercury preservative in the vaccines (Thermiosol)
is larger responsible for the Autism rate to be 1 in 88
(compared to something like over 1 in 20,000 25 years ago).

And even if the vaccines are Thermiosol free (which isn't easy to get),
I can't find a single scientific study showing vaccines work -- not one.

On the flip side, my wife claims that not giving vaccines
is a surefire way to ultimately kill our child.

But after researching the dangers of vaccinations
(and especially after watching this documentary
from 1998 called "The Hidden Truth"),
my wife is easing off (but she's still not 100% convinced yet).

Here's a link to the free video:

http://snipurl.com/Vaccine_Truth

We both agreed to invest the effort to track down
parents who elected not to vaccinate their child...

Do you know anyone who didn't vaccinate their children
who might be able to offer their opinion here -- good or bad?

For example, we'd like to know if the lack of vaccinations
caused your children from catching Polio and/or and of
the other 45 diseases apparently "covered" by childhood vaccines?

Can you help us do the right thing and make an informed decision?

Please detail your thoughts by clicking the "Reply" link to the bottom right-hand side of this entry.

I appreciate your thoughts ahead of time as the clock is ticking -- the doctor appointment is 9 a.m. this Wednesday.

[greenbriar]

1. my daughter is 15, VERY healthy and has all vaccs..INCLUDING The HPV series

that is so controversial




you don't vaccinate, you coudl be ruining their chances of becoming parents later
my oldest brother caught measles and mumps at the same time when he was 2 months old..he is almost 60 now

he can't have kids


but the miracle is that he lived

[freedom_please]

4. That's great news, but...

... We're looking to speak to those who HAVE NOT vaccinated. That's who my wife wants to hear from.

I appreciate your reply.

[crim son]

13. You do understand that the reason people who haven't

been vaccinated are largely disease free is because most of us have gone through the life-threatening procedure and therefore there is virtually no chance of transmission? Until, of course, people stop vaccinating their children. And I am very surprised that you can't find any information on the effectiveness of vaccines. Why are we not still dying of measles or TB, for example. There is very clearly a correlation between the reduction in the incidence of disease and the use of vaccines. OTOH, there is as yet no conclusive evidence that the thimerosol causes autism, though I'm still keeping an open mind. Finally, I was just speaking about this with my sister, who like you is worried about the thimerosol. (I'm probably spelling it wrong) She has had no difficulty finding vaccinations without the additive, because many drug companies have voluntarily removed it from their drugs.

Right now there is no vaccination against AIDS, and so people get it. If there were such a thing, the disease would become very rare because people would be immune due to their shots.

I find it incredible that this isn't obvious.

[pitohui]

69. maybe those who have NOT vaccinated have blind, deaf children and are embarrassed to post

jeebus, no wonder i heard about an outbreak of whooping cough awhile back

WTF is wrong w. people?

[FourScore]

109. freedom_please, I think you are going about this in a backward fashion

I think you should learn more about autism first if that is your fear. You need to truly understand the history of autism. The reason the diagnostic levels have increased so exponentially is because proper diagnostic tools have only been in place since the 1980's. Autism was first identified in the 20th century, so it is a relatively newly recognized disease.

See http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/index.php?feed=Science&article=UPI-1-20061006-20191800-bc-pedmed-autism-8.xml

The discovery of autism and the implementation of immunization shots both occured around the same time in history, so it is no wonder that people may try to connect the two. In reality, they have nothing to do with one another.

As much as I adore Robert Kennedy, Jr, I do not agree with his findings on the supposed dangers of immunizations. He is not an expert in this field. Polio is virtually non-existent in our youth today. My mother describes the terror which possessed parents when she was young, the fear that their child may get that dangerous and debilitating disease. We no longer live with that fear. So many illnesses have been reduced (or as with small pox, wiped out entirely) because of these shots.

We are a healthier society because of immunization. Should we get a shot for everything? I do not think we should. But the standard shots given to children have proven to be effective. Go live in areas where they have no immunization and take a look around.

I think you are playing with your child's well-being. And I think it is reckless. Having said that, I completey empathize with your delimma. A parent only wants what is best for their child. To question "the norm" is healthy and good. I believe your motives are loving and I have no doubt that your child will be fine. You and your wife will struggle repeatedly in life with such questions when it comes to your child. It does eventually get easier though. I can assure you.

My advise: get you baby immunized. It really is best. This is not the time to wear a tin-foil hat.

[bicentennial_baby]

2. Not vaccinating your children is a threat to public health

Also, she won't be getting into any schools for kindergarten without them. And, what is this about vaccines not working? Yeah, ask all those people who didn't die of smallpox and polio as a rsult of getting vaccinated...

:eyes:

[charlie and algernon]

16. yeah, good luck getting your child into any level of school

every school, grade, HS, and college, requires that you be vaccinated for at least measals and mumps. You really want to jeprodize your child's education, and health for that matter, on some idiotic theory?

[deadmessengers]

34. They allow parents to weasel out of that

Parents can claim a religious objection to vaccinations allowing their kids to attend public school, and I've never heard of a school actually asking parents to substantiate that claim.

[bicentennial_baby]

39. Such people shouldn't be having kids...sick.

Not only endangering their own kids, but everyone else's too... :mad:

[demrabble]

3. You Are Quite Correct To Be Concerned

You are quite correct to be concerned about vaccines.

Many do, in fact, contain mercury.

I can't give you any specific information -- only advice.

And that advice is to be very, very careful and do NOT feel pressured into doing anything you do not feel would be in the best interest of your child.

[greenbriar]

5. here

Can you help us do the right thing and make an informed decision?



GET THE SHOTS.......................

[freedom_please]

10. Did you watch the video?

I'm surprised how many replies are coming in already...
even though the video is over an 90 minutes long.

Did you watch the video or did you already see it before?

[hedgehog]

93. Don't forget, there was also a video out a few years back of an

alien autopsy. It's very easy to make a video that appears to prove something one way or another. The people who made the video may mean well, but that doesn't make them right.

[BeHereNow]

6. 1987- My daughter had a DPT reaction and died.

Good news is, I had ignored the placating rhetoric
about fever being normal after a DPT in some children.

Her temperature had reached 103 in a matter of an hour.
I put her in the car and drove to the emergency room.
It was there, after being ware housed in a waiting room
that she stopped breathing. If we had not been at the
hospital, she would have not been revived.

It does happen, just know that and ignore
the doctor if the temperature is abnormally high
after a vaccination.

Head for the emergency room if you
even suspect an adverse drug reaction.
My daughter would not be here today if
I had listened to the doctor.
BHN

[BeHereNow]

33. Good link to read about other parent's experiences with DPT reactions-

Granted, they are not that common, but it is my feeling
that every parent should be aware of the symptoms.
I know in our case, time made all the difference-
the fact that we were already in the emergency room,
despite the doctor's assurance that her symptoms were normal,
made the difference between her life and death, and certainly
the potential of permanent brain damage.

BHN

[proud2BlibKansan]

48. She died?

Your title says she died. But do you mean she nearly died?

[BeHereNow]

85. Yes, died- no heartbeat, no pulse, stopped breathing etc...

She would have been severly brain damaged if she had survived
had we not been at the hospital. Because we were in the emergency
room, she was brought back successfully.

We were alone in the room when she stopped breathing.
She had gone completely limp about a half hour before that-
She began to turn blue and she was not breathing-
I grabbed her and began running down the hall toward
the reception area screaming for someone to help us.

Prior to that, we had basically been ignored with the exception of a
nurse who had stopped by the room to insert a Tylenol suppository
into her rectum.

When I hit the hall screaming that my baby had stopped breathing,
it seemed like a thousand medical staff suddenly appeared.
They whisked her into a room with lots of machinery and would not
allow me in- I was hysterical as you might imagine.

Finally someone came out and told me they had revived
her and that it was a good thing I had brought her
to the hosptital. They kept her over night and by
morning she seemed herself again.

I have long suspected the incident may have
induced a mild case of Asperger's Syndrome,
among some other abnormalities, in her though.

BHN

[Sadie4629]

117. Did the doc say why she had had that reaction?

I would assume that she didn't get the rest of the DPT's, so what happened when she started school, and the vaccines weren't up to date?

[BeHereNow]

139. Pertussis Reaction-

She did receive vaccines after that, but none containing Pertussis.
I am not against vaccinations, rather I am in favor of better
education of the public receiving them as to what to watch
for in the way of ADR to them in your child.

BHN

[WillyT]

7. Is It The Science, Or The Politicization Of Science You Are Afraid Of ???

I just love this new place we've come to... NOT!!!

:banghead:

[Lurking Dem]

8. Read this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=222&topic_id=15539

[tritsofme]

9. Beleiving crack-pot theories at the expense of your child's health

May make you an unfit parent.

There is no good reason not to have your child immunized.

[smoogatz]

That may be true now, but it certainly wasn't true as recently as 2004.

See here:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7395411/deadly_immunity/

[tritsofme]

44. All due respect to Mr. Kennedy

He is not a scientist or a medical professional, and the consensus in the medical community is that this study is not correct.

[smoogatz]

79. Very authoritative tone you've got going there.

It's my understanding, though, that there is no consensus in the medical community on this issue--unless you happen to be a representative of one of the vaccine-makers in question. Pediatricians who took the vaccine-makers' studies at face value most likely found an increase in the number of autistic kids in their practices until '04. Those who didn't, didn't. Sometimes a flawed but relevant study combined with instinct, common sense and a wealth of anecdotal evidence is better than a fraudulent study performed by corrupt drug company scientists.

[BeHereNow]

45. Please see my posts upthread.

Parents are NOT properly informed about
the the potential ADR's with certain vaccines.
I now work with many students who were damaged
by them. The issue is not black and white as you
suggest. I am a strong advocate for parent
education; I feel many parents could could avoid tragedy
if they simply knew more about what to look for after vaccinations.
Time is essential in a ADR.
It can mean the difference between life an death
not to mention the degree of damage to the brain
and neurological system.
I am not saying don't vaccinate-
I am advocating knowing fully what to
look for after vaccination.

BHN

[hedgehog]

62. My doctor hands me the CDC information sheet with every shot,

even annual flu shots. I am required to read it, sign it and date it. That sheet lists all the information about the vaccine, the disease it prevents and possible side effects. It gives clear instruction s to contact your hospital or doctor if certain side effects are seen.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

11. I know an attorney.

:thumbsup:

[Ninja Jordan]

18. for what?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

35. A spousal abuse trial.

Defendant or plaintiff don't matter.

[Ninja Jordan]

38. Hopefully it doesn't have to get to that.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

49. From your mouth to God's magic wand!

:pray:

[Nay]

12. Remember that the reason your child may not catch diseases

is that all the OTHER children around her are vaccinated, not because vaccinations are not needed. When I was a child, everyone got measles, chicken pox, roseola and mumps because there were no vaccines for these -- so yes, the vaccines "work." This is not to say that no vaccinated person will ever not get a disease he was vaccinated for; sometimes they don't "take" and sometimes the vaccination was too long ago, or sometimes the disease is one that vaccination cannot always prevent (thus the people who get chickenpox twice, etc., showing that immunity/vaccination may not always take).

The idea that mercury in the vaccines is causing autism is certainly a controversial one, and I urge you to try to get the non-mercury ones, but to get your child vaccinated somehow.

There are always those few kids who react violently to one or another vaccine, and are damaged, but the percentage is a lot fewer than those who died of complications from the actual diseases. Like many things, it is a crapshoot.

A coworker of mine (age 40) just got over chickenpox. She grew up in South America and was not vaccinated there. She was EXTREMELY ill and nearly had to go to the hospital to get over it. So don't forget that the unvaccinated child grows into an unvaccinated adult. . .

[John Q. Citizen]

105. Yet chicken pox vaccine only works for a few years. If you catch chicken pox as a child

(the younger the better) it is permanent protection for the rest of your life.

We sent our kids to to a chicken pox party, that is a social get together where one or more of the children attending had active and transmissible chicken pox.

I worked well, all three kids caught chicken pox, were sick simultaneously, and it protects our kids for life. Chicken Pox can be very dangerous for kids during puberty, it can cause permanent sterility for one thing.

All vaccines for all diseases are not equal. Some make very good sense and some make little sense.

We had our kids vaccinated for polio, for instance, because polio is such a devastating disease. We did however, ask for and get the dead vaccine as opposed to the live vaccine, because the only known transmissions of polio in the US in the last 20 years or so is from vaccinated (with live vaccine) kids to as yet un vaccinated kids. Since our kids span 5 years, we didn't want the oldest transmitting polio to our youngest before he was of age top get his vaccine.

The biggest problem I see is that people often approach this issue as black or white. They believe either that all vaccines are good, smart, efficable and necessary or they believe that all vaccines are bad, dangerous, corporate rip-offs, and unnecessary.

I prefer to take it on a case by case basis, read all the pertinent literature, and make a decision based on knowledge instead of fear.

[Sadie4629]

131. My younger son caught chicken pox from me

I had shingles, and gave it to my eight-month old, who gave it to his two-year old brother. I think it was the only thing he ever willingly shared!! Because he was so young there was really no way to keep him from scratching, so he got quite a few facial scars.

[smoogatz]

14. See the 2005 Rolling Stone article by Robert Kennedy Jr.

They evidently stopped using thimerosal-preserved vaccines in the U.S. in 2004.

"Vaccine manufacturers had already begun to phase thimerosal out of injections given to American infants -- but they continued to sell off their mercury-based supplies of vaccines until last year. The CDC and FDA gave them a hand, buying up the tainted vaccines for export to developing countries and allowing drug companies to continue using the preservative in some American vaccines -- including several pediatric flu shots as well as tetanus boosters routinely given to eleven-year-olds."

Read the whole article here: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7395411/deadly_immunity/

It's fascinating. My mother-in-law is a pediatrician in SoCal--she's been practicing for 36 years and has never had a newborn in her care develop autism, even during the thimerosal era. She's always delayed administering most vaccines by several months to a year compared to the standard schedule, with great results. She's still concerned about the multi-vaccines, like the MMR, and tends to delay them as long as possible.

[napi21]

15. I don't know anyon e who hasn't vaccinated their children, and

my own are now grown and have children of their own...who all have received the recommended vaccintations. What I can tell you is when I was a little kid, I contracted measles (both kind), mumps, chickenpox, abd who knows how many other things they had no vaccines for yet. Mytwo sons both receivedeach new vaccine available, and contracted NONE of the childhood diseases that used to affect almost every kid. My grandkids have all received all the available vaccines, and other than the occasional virus or cold, are healthy.

You make whatever decustion you wish from that story.

What I would suggest to you is to discuss your feelings with your pediatrition, and follow his/her advise. If you don't trust your pediatrition's judgement, find another one who you do trust. Those doctors specialize in studying children and the problems they have. They are much better sources of information than anyone you are going to find here on the net!

[MADem]

17. I'd look for vaccines without preservative. I'd speak to a doctor about

modifying the schedule a bit so the kid isn't inundated with a zillion shots all at once. It may require more office visits, but hey, whatever. I know they've taken out the thimerosol now but there are some stockpiles here and there still that haven't reached their sell-by date. Check, insist on seeing the package.

I am allergic to thimerosol--it does a terrible number on me. The anthrax series almost killed me, and that is not a hyperbolic statement. The kicker is, my allergy was IN my record, but that didn't stop the bastards.

I'm not a fan of Reagan, but he was right when he said "TRUST, but VERIFY."

Some links that might help you:

http://www.nationalautismassociation.org/

http://www.safeminds.org/

[China_cat]

19. We have a lot of people here who do not vaccinate.

Every 3 years we have measles epidemics that come close to closing the schools. Whooping cough is coming back with a vengence. (Ever hear of a case when you were growing up?)

How you can say there's no evidence vaccinations work is just beyond me. Before the Salk polio vaccine there was approximately 50,000 new cases of the disease a year. That has dropped to < 12. No, not 12,000, -12-.

You don't remember the diseases you are now asking your daughter to face. Blindness, deafness, death from measles (both my sister and I know about this one first hand...we're both deaf from measles). Death or brain damage from meningitis. Scarring and loss of lung capacity from whooping cough. Horrid death from diphtheria. Death or disability from polio. The chance of deformation of a child of her own if she should contract rubella as a pregnant adult.

There is not only no evidence that vaccination has any connection to autism but the latest studies are showing a genetic link, and one very long term study in Japan where vaccines were discontinued and the rate of autism continued to rise anyway.

[proud2BlibKansan]

87. That is scary

In my nearly 30 years teaching, I can't think of any kids I know who have not been vaccinated. I will ask our nurse tomorrow. Our state allows an exemption for religious reasons. But I really don't know anyone who has not vaccinated their kids.

[China_cat]

124. SC has a very easy opt-out system for vacs.

Declare it against your beliefs and that's all you have to do. Your kids get into school and infect everybody else. I'd love to see it changed.

My youngest had chickenpox a year before the vaccine came out. It morphed into scarlet fever. I wish I'd had the option of the vaccine.

[Beelzebud]

20. Beware of the Evil Flouride! Distill your own water!

[freedom_please]

30. Flouride -- ironic

Funny you should mention Flouride...

... About a month after getting round 2 of vaccinations, my newborn screamed all day (not the night) for no reason.

I switched from filtered water (which apparently doesn't rid Flouride) to distilled water and the screaming stopped the very next day!

Just about everyone I tell this story to is stunned -- they're brainwashed into thinking Flouride is good for you. If it's so good, why do you have to call Poison Control if accidentally swallowed -- it's true... just look at the back of any flouride-based toothpaste. Yet the exact same toothpaste without flouride (Orajel) doesn't have this warning.

Amazing!

[Beelzebud]

36. ROFL I knew it. Are you a Kevin Trudeau crackpot?

Man I had you pegged.

Listen to your wife. She's much smarter than you.

And BTW if you can't find research supporting the success of vaccines it's because you haven't looked.

[freedom_please]

75. I'm not a fan of Keving Trudeau

I'm in the marketing biz and hate the way he teases us to sell subscriptions...

... About the research supporting vaccines -- can you show me one -- just one double-blind, independant study showing any of the 45 vaccines are safe and effective. I've been looking for this a long time -- even asked my baby doctor for this and she couldn't point me in the right direction.

By the way, I'm assuming you didn't watch the video I recommended in the original post. If you did, I doubt you'd say my wife was smarter than me:>

[hedgehog]

92. There are no such studies, only studies showing the particular

vaccine to be safe and effective. The reason; vaccines are so effective that it would be unethical to enlist parents not to vaccinate their kids.

[freedom_please]

96. Is this a joke?

Really, I can't tell if you're joking.

[hedgehog]

101. It's no joke; it'd be like running a double blind study of

treating an inflamed appendix with surgery or by watching what happens if you do nothing. Odds are, some appendixes (appendices?) will get better on their own, but a lot of people will also die of peritonitis. That's why an inflamed appendix generally gets removed. How about a double blind of setting a broken arm and casting it vs. letting nature take its course to heal it?

[freedom_please]

108. Wow, you're not joking

Well, there's an easy way to find an entire group of Americans who absolutely refuse to vaccinate -- just ask my Amish people who happen to live about 10 minutes from my townhouse...

... When my entire family (all vaccinated by the way regrettably) came down with Whopping Cough symptoms just after Christmas (along with the rest of the country), it was the Amish who were illness free... as we were hacking, they were laughing at us.

[greenbriar]

110. I think you have your mind made up and are not listening to us

its likely you wanted a different reaction so you could label us or something..

I am done with this thread


get the vaccination

[LostinVA]

142. Agreed

[John Q. Citizen]

121. OK, then get those Amish to volunteer. We can inject live polio virus into

100 not vaccinated Amish, and the same live virus into 100 other vaccinated people and see what happens. And there can be a control group of 100 Amish who get placebo and 100 vaccinated people who get placebo.

Doesn't sound very ethical to me, but if you can talk the Amish into it, go for it.

[DemReadingDU]

94. I'm in my late 50's and I was not vaccinated until

When I went to college at 18, I had to go thru all those shots. The same thing happened with my younger brothers and sisters. I am oldest of 8. None of us had vaccinations until we were 18.

I'm from a family of chiropractors. My advice, is to research chiropractors in your area to seek out and talk with about your concerns with vaccinations for young children, and vaccinations in general for older people.

[freedom_please]

102. Very interesting...

When I went to college at 18, I had to go thru all those shots. The same thing happened with my younger brothers and sisters. I am oldest of 8. None of us had vaccinations until we were 18.

From every vacinnation literature I've read, they scare us into NOT skipping the vaccination schedules -- did your doctor tell you this?

Now I'm really concerned.

[DemReadingDU]

103. I didn't have an MD, my father was a Chiropractor

Seriously, we were very healthy kids, no need to see an MD. Our mom fed us healthy foods, and we were not allowed to drink soda pop. couldn't watch much TV either, we had to play outside!

[greenbriar]

106. you are ignoring anything that you don't want to hear. Cherry picking trouble does you nothing

read what people are saying

stop looking for what you want to "hear"

[gollygee]

37. That's called colic

kids outgrow it regardless of flouride, regardless of formula/breastfeeding, regardless of whatever.

[deadmessengers]

41. how do you know it was the fluoride?

I mean, how can you isolate fluoride as the cause of your newborn's screaming when it could have been any number of things? Correlation does not equal causation.

[charlie and algernon]

47. LOL, and beware the red cross! there's computer chips in the blood donation needles!

LOL, you're a real winner. listen to your wife.

[LostinVA]

126. Tell me about it

Anti fluroide. Oh boy.

[proud2BlibKansan]

61. That's collic

They scream all day and not at night. Many babies get it. And I don't believe it has anything to do with fluoride.

[gollygee]

115. I only drink bottled water, and my daughter was breastfed

and guess what? Colic. It was hell. But it certainly wasn't caused by flouride.

[proud2BlibKansan]

119. One of my babies had it and one didn't

I wonder what that means. LOL

[freedom_please]

132. I agreed, until I read this

I was stunned to see how much fluoride is just about every food and beverage:
http://snipurl.com/Fluoride_Counts

I checked this report against government data -- it appears to be legit.

Pretty astonishing, eh?

[gollygee]

135. I eat organic food, locally farmed meat (from people I know who don't use chemicals)

and I drink bottled water. I wasn't passing any flouride onto my daughter.

[Midlodemocrat]

64. Colic, not flouride caused the screaming.

The cause of which is still unknown and torments parents daily.

[FourScore]

116. You should live in Europe and see their teeth

They don't believe in flouride. It ain't a pretty sight. Too much flouride, like anything else is bad. The doses given for dental purposes are good. There is x-ray evidence to back this up. My dentist can tell a person without asking if they recieved flouride in the first 8 years of their life or not. You might also want to see if your area even has flouride in the water. Many areas do not, so flouride must be supplemented for children.

I also think the child was colic.

[LostinVA]

125. Fluoride is good for you, and distilled water isn't

Distilled water takes all the good stuff out of the water.

Anti fluroide AND anti vaccine.

Oh boy.

[Ninja Jordan]

21. I agree with your wife.

[Karenina]

22. Your baby is 9 months old.

If your wife is breastfeeding and you're able to avoid close contact with other children (i.e. daycare) and crowds, perhaps you could cut yourselves some slack and begin vaccinations after babykins is a year old and you've had time to educate yourselves on what you feel is the best course.

I personally distrust shooting infants up with concoctions before their bodies have had time to adjust to life outside the womb. My kid had a problem with the P part of DPT. Please DO make your concerns known to your pediatrician and ASK AS MANY QUESTIONS as you need to. MUCH LOVE TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY!

[Midlodemocrat]

23. There is no thimerosal in vaccines anymore.

And as far as it causing autism, that has mostly been refuted.

Autism appears to have a genetic trigger AND an environmental one, which would explain why twins who are vaccinated with the same batch don't both get autism.

[NoodleyAppendage]

74. Calling bullsh*t on that point. Thimerosal is still in flu vaccine.

There are a few thimerosal-free flu vaccine options, but most of the state health systems default to the thimerosal versions because they are cheaper and have a longer shelf life. I know this because we took our 6 month old for her first flu shot and were told that the state (NC) only had thimerosal version available. We had to take our child to an out-of-network provider for the thimerosal-free version.

J

[Midlodemocrat]

84. Not a mandated vaccine.

[sojourner]

24. True story...

when my fifth child was born, I made up my mind that I would not immunize him willy-nilly, reasoning that there was more risk in the immunization than in the unlikely exposure to the major diseases that the vaccines protect against.

He was pretty young still, maybe close to a year old, when a good friend's child (also not immunized) came down with Whooping Cough. When I got confirmation of that, I got the biggest scare of my life. Her child was dreadfully ill. He would cough and cough and at times absolutely could not get a breath. He was also choking on a large amount of phlem. It was horrible, and my son had been exposed. I called the doctor immediately, who said to bring my son in and immunized him on the spot.

My pediatrician was from India. He said it was easy to have doubts about the value of immunizations when you live in a nation where you haven't seen the devastating effects of contagious childhood disease. He was very kind with me, realizing that many Americans have been very sheltered, and consequently feel very secure when in fact -- with the increased mobility of the world's populations -- we are more vulnerable than we imagine.

I don't imagine this helps a lot. But take it from a mom who thought it couldn't happen -- it can and it came pretty darn close to happening to my child. -- My friend's son did recover, BTW. But he was awfully sick for quite a while.

[Fresh_Start]

25. I had chicken pox and german measles as an adult

you don't want to that to your child.

In particular I got german measles between pregnancies but I could have gotten during a pregnancy with grave results.

[hedgehog]

77. I'm glad the timing was right.

I had the German measles as a kid, was vaccinated and had a titer to prove my immunity before I ever got pregnant. One thing I learned since this controversy hit DU is the 6% of the kids exposed to German measles in the womb develop autism. Those odds are a hell of a lot worse than the most scary claim about autism and vaccines. By now, most women have been vaccinated against German measles, but your experience shows that it's not 100%. To the OP: Imagine how you would feel if your kid happened to be the one who exposed a pregnant friend because neither she nor your kid had been vaccinated.

[Hekate]

83. Right. If a kid gives German measles to a pregnant woman, the baby can be deaf, blind, or dead.

[ellenfl]

26. i can't answer the 'no vaccinations' question but . . .

have you researched the specific vaccines? since the autism issue came up, maybe different manufacturers quit using mercury. i totally agree that this issue should have been made public long ago. however, most vaccines have been around for a very long time and, except for the more modern addition of the mercury preservative, have been proven by time to be safe. i would do some research into the various vaccines and i would talk to the pediatrician about your concerns.

as i understand it, most schools will not let a child attend without vaccinations. i think that vaccinating your child with thimerosol-free vaccines would be a good compromise with your wife.

ellen fl

[in_cog_ni_to]

27. My 13 year old son had all his vaccination and a round of hepatitis vaccinations and is healthy.

Except for a horrible sore throat and fever he's suffering from right now...:( poor baby. I honestly don't know anyone who hasn't vaccinated their children. Will your child be allowed to attend public school without being vaccinated? I don't think so. I do believe it's required. How people get around that, I have no idea. The point is, a non-vaccinated child can spread illnesses to other children at school, so they require vaccines. You may want to check with your local schools on their policies. OUR school requires the children to be vaccinated.

[cboy4]

28. You sound like these parents I read about who won't allow

doctors to interfere with their sick child....they light incense instead, etc.

Your post sounds very suspicious.

You're seeking all of this urgent advice three days before the appointment on a public discussion board?

"The clock is ticking..."

That seems very reckless and suspicious.

[greenbriar]

43. kinda like the "liberal" that called Randi

this week yea?

[freedom_please]

56. Here's why the rush

I really thought after watching "The Truth" video,
it would be all-too-obvious that vaccinations
are ineffective (or even deadly).

The video... complete with opinions and stats
from medical professionals from around the world
certainly swayed my wife to see the light.

But as I said in my original post, she's not 100% convinced.

As a compromise, she asked me to get opinions
from those who didn't vaccinate --
and I agree -- that's a great idea.

I'm even willing to change my mind on this --
especially after talking to those who took
the same route I'm about to take ... not vaccinating
merely because my doctor said so.

By the way...
... Did you know most doctors are compensated
to push this stuff on us... everything from cash
to free meals. That's why I don't trust their
opinions 100%.

There's really nothing more to it than that.

I really do want to talk to those who have
gotten sick by not vaccinating.

So far, I can't find one.

Wouldn't you agree that's the best source of information on this?

[bicentennial_baby]

72. .....

"I really do want to talk to those who have
gotten sick by not vaccinating."

maybe they're DEAD?

[hedgehog]

81. Yep, because those people just rush to post that they were an

idiot who let their kid get damaged because they didn't trust their doctor.

[hedgehog]

95. If you don't trust your doctor, get another doctor.

Just don't tar all doctors with the same brush. The fellow I've seen for 20 years went out of his way to arrange for my son to get a high efficiency air filter for his room for free. He also sees the migrant families here because he speaks Spanish.

As one poster notes below, if you don't trust your doctor for vaccine advice, does that mean you'll turn down an antibiotic? What about if you get chest pains? Will you try some bicarb or hustle yourself to the ER?

[gollygee]

128. You're pretty good at formatting for someone who has never posted anywhere before

per message 82 you've never posted *anywhere* before, but you've got those italics going pretty well.

[WinkyDink]

29. I hope you're thinking "private school".

[bicentennial_baby]

42. I think they're mandated by law as well...

I don't think private schools can get around that. At least mine couldn't... :shrug:

[deadmessengers]

54. Strange case

I am a student at an online-only university. Since enrolling at this school, I have never once been in the same room as another student or teacher - just me, and a computer.

But... due to a New York (the state where the school is physically located) law, I had to submit a vaccination certificate to enroll. Seriously. There's no exemption in the mandatory vaccination laws for correspondence or online schools. Now THAT'S asinine.

[bicentennial_baby]

70. Eh, I think it's probably b/c

those laws were enacted before there ever was such a thing as "online" classes, and they don't have the time/resources to create a whole other set of rules for such students.

[deadmessengers]

76. Precisely

It's still weird, though.

[charlie and algernon]

65. i've only gone to private schools and they've ALL required vacines

you can't get around it and freedomplease is really sabatoging his child's education.

[bicentennial_baby]

71. Same here.

Private school from ages 8 through 18. Vaccinations required straight through.

[gollygee]

31. I have friends who haven't vaccinated their kids

From what I've seen so far, their health seems the same as those kids (like mine) who have received vaccinations.

We had a whooping cough outbreak here not too long ago and I was glad my daughter was vaccinated. That's the only problem I've seen at this point with not vaccinating. But even that outbreak was relatively small and I don't think any kids died.

You have to do a risk assessment. What is the risk associated with the shots (IMO low) and what is the risk associated with not getting the shots (IMO higher). The risk associated with not getting shots increases as more people choose not to vaccinate their kids. So future outbreaks of currently rare diseases could be bigger and cause more harm than our local recent whooping cough outbreak.

It's like any other parenting issue - all you can do is research, try to judge what the risks are, and do your best. There are some valid anti-vaccination arguments, but my personal risk assessment was that my daughter was safer vaccinated than not.

It looks to me like you've researched plenty and know what you want to do but are trying not too subtly to evangelize to us. Which is fine I suppose. I just wish you were more up-front about it.

[freedom_please]

63. Finally, an reply to my original question -- thank you...

Can I get a favor from your friend and could you ask her/him to go into a bit more detail here... I'll check back until Wednesday.

[gollygee]

113. I won't be seeing them before Wednesday

and they don't post here. Sorry.

[greenbriar]

32. I hope you are seriously asking for advice and not leading us on a goose chase

to throw in our faces later...



Vaccines are a GOOD thing. Once in a while someone has an adverse reaction...




are you vaccinated? your family?

you have GOT to do the right thing and Vaccinate


you would kill yourself later if you didn't and your baby died of measles or small pox or polio that YOU COULD HAVE prevented

[in_cog_ni_to]

88. That is exactly how I looked at vaccination. If my son died from a disease I could have prevented

with a vaccination, I would not be able to forgive myself. That's how I looked at car safety seats, leaving him in the car alone, leaving him with babysitters I didn't know well, letting him go places alone, letting him go play with 'a friend' if I didn't know the parents, ect...ect...ect... Could I live with myself if something happened to him because of a stupid decision I made? The answer was always NO.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. They have stopped putting thimeresol in vaccines

and polio is a BAD disease that is often fatal.

[greenbriar]

50. my aunt had polio...my mom's parents wer edirt poor and they didn't do vaccines then

she died of LUNG CANCER and never smoked a day in her life.

what happened was that her good lung had cancer and when they went to take it out discovered that the other lung was deflated and probably had been since the polio 65 years earlier

[proud2BlibKansan]

80. I am old enough to remember polio

We were literally locked up as kids when there was a polio scare. We couldn't go outside at all. And if we got sick, the doctor came to our house. It was too dangerous to go to the doctor's office or even to the hospital. I had tonsillitis and was very sick. I think I was about 4. I can remember my doctor telling my mom it was too risky to put me in the hospital for a tonsillectomy.

The worst part was in the summer, we couldn't go swimming. We also didn't have a gazillion cable channels then and there wasn't much to do when we couldn't go outside. It was miserable. But we were so fortunate that we didn't catch polio. That would have been worse.

I can also remember going to school in about 1st grade and one of my classmates was on crutches. She had caught polio over the summer.

[Hekate]

100. Me too. Every school had some kids on crutches, every town had dead kids, every parent feared it.

When the polio vaccine was made available, parents waited with their kids in lines that went around the block.

Yes, there were a few bad reactions -- as there were to smallpox vaccinations -- but the diseases were guaranteed to be so deadly and fearsome that parents willingly took the small risk over the greater.

Hekate

[proud2BlibKansan]

111. I can remember standing in line for the vaccine

I was probably 7 or 8. And yes, it was an all day wait.

[China_cat]

112. I remember that, too.

You didn't know who would be coming back to school on crutches. Or who wouldn't be coming back at all.

And the telethons with kids in iron lungs. We hated it when we heard there was going to be shot to prevent it...who wants a shot? But our parents threatened us within an inch of our lives if we refused to get in line at school and get stuck.

The next summer we actually got to go swimming and to the movies and play outside until dark. And all our playmates came back to school in the fall.

[Midlodemocrat]

46. Maybe Gene Tierney's experience will change your mind, especially if your baby is a girl.

Cassini served as a a second lieutenant in the Army in World War II, and Tierney was accorded the honor of pinning the regulation gold bars on his uniform. In June 1943, while pregnant with her first daughter, she came down with German measles, contracted during her only appearance at the Hollywood Canteen. The baby, Daria, was born prematurely in Washington, D.C., weighing only 3 pounds, 2 ounces, and requiring a total blood transfusion. Because of Tierney's exposure to German measles, Daria was also deaf, partially blind with cataracts, and severely retarded.<1> Tierney's grief over the tragedy led to many years of depression and bi-polar disorder.

Some time after the tragedy surrounding her daughter Daria's birth, Tierney learned from a fan who approached her for an autograph that the woman, then a member of the women's branch of the Marine Corps, had sneaked out of quarantine while sick with German measles to meet her at her Hollywood Canteen appearance. In her autobiography, Tierney related that after the woman had recounted her story she just stared at her silently, then turned and walked away. She wrote, "After that I didn't care whether ever again I was anyone's favorite actress.


From wikipedia. I remember this story from my childhood about the fan. So very, very sad.

[gollygee]

51. Heartbreaking

:(

[Midlodemocrat]

59. That story has stuck with me my entire life.

I can't imagine how painful it must have been for her to have that woman telling her essentially how Daria was infected.

[LostinVA]

136. Agatha Christie even used this as a big plot point

In "The Mirror Crack'd."

[hedgehog]

52. Why not visit the CDC Web site?

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vaccine/components/additives.htm

I just finished reading the book, Vaccine by Arthur Allen. He's been tracking the thimersol/autism/vaccine story for years as a professional journalist. Based on my understanding of the book, vaccines are about 99.9999% safe. Those are my words, not his. Here's the problem: your kids is going to be entered into one of two lotteries. Enter the vaccine lottery, and there is a very remote chance your kid will get sick from the vaccine. Enter the non-vaccine lottery and the chances are a lot better that your kid will get sick from the diseases that vaccines are designed to prevent. Google pertussis outbreaks if you don't believe me. You've heard of shaken baby syndrome? How about a cough that is so violent it can cause cerebral hemorrhage or simple suffocation? Back when I was a kid, there were more complications from a single season of measles than from all the measles shots ever given.

Not everyone who gets pertussis or measles gets that sick, of course, but you pays your money and you takes your pick. Personally, I prefer to vaccinate.

[Warren Stupidity]

53. The autism connection is not established - the risk of not vaccinating is.

You are making a classic error in judgement here. Your wife is right. Take a deep breath, apologize, and do the right thing for your daughter.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

55. My teenager has had all his recommended shots

Sorry, I can't add input on opting out. What I will say is if you do chose to opt in, monitor the vials the shots are drawn from. At my sons 15 year booster shots, after watching the nurse draw the shots, I asked to see the vials she used. She had used the Wrong one for one of the shots. The look on her face!! ~wonder what mine must have looked like! lol..
Mistakes can happen, just pay attention out there.

[LibertyorDeath]

57. Hi about Thermesol

Thermesol is no longer used in Vaccines in Canada ( except Flu ) Japan or many nations in Europe

There is no Definitive Scientific Proof currently linking Thermiosol to Autism but unnecessarily giving a young developing brain
multiple doses of Mercury an extremely powerful neurotoxin even in very small amounts should raise strong concerns.

If you live near the Canadian border come to Canada and have it done Mercury Free!

Deadly Immunity

Published on Thursday, June 16, 2005 by Salon.com
Deadly Immunity
When a study revealed that mercury in childhood vaccines may have caused autism in thousands of kids, the government rushed to conceal the data -- and to prevent parents from suing drug companies for their role in the epidemic.

by Robert F. Kennedy Jr.


In June 2000, a group of top government scientists and health officials gathered for a meeting at the isolated Simpsonwood conference center in Norcross, Ga. Convened by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the meeting was held at this Methodist retreat center, nestled in wooded farmland next to the Chattahoochee River, to ensure complete secrecy. The agency had issued no public announcement of the session -- only private invitations to 52 attendees. There were high-level officials from the CDC and the Food and Drug Administration, the top vaccine specialist from the World Health Organization in Geneva, and representatives of every major vaccine manufacturer, including GlaxoSmithKline, Merck, Wyeth and Aventis Pasteur. All of the scientific data under discussion, CDC officials repeatedly reminded the participants, was strictly "embargoed." There would be no making photocopies of documents, no taking papers with them when they left.

The federal officials and industry representatives had assembled to discuss a disturbing new study that raised alarming questions about the safety of a host of common childhood vaccines administered to infants and young children. According to a CDC epidemiologist named Tom Verstraeten, who had analyzed the agency's massive database containing the medical records of 100,000 children, a mercury-based preservative in the vaccines -- thimerosal -- appeared to be responsible for a dramatic increase in autism and a host of other neurological disorders among children. "I was actually stunned by what I saw," Verstraeten told those assembled at Simpsonwood, citing the staggering number of earlier studies that indicate a link between thimerosal and speech delays, attention-deficit disorder, hyperactivity and autism. Since 1991, when the CDC and the FDA had recommended that three additional vaccines laced with the preservative be given to extremely young infants -- in one case, within hours of birth -- the estimated number of cases of autism had increased fifteenfold, from one in every 2,500 children to one in 166 children.

Even for scientists and doctors accustomed to confronting issues of life and death, the findings were frightening. "You can play with this all you want," Dr. Bill Weil, a consultant for the American Academy of Pediatrics, told the group. The results "are statistically significant." Dr. Richard Johnston, an immunologist and pediatrician from the University of Colorado whose grandson had been born early on the morning of the meeting's first day, was even more alarmed. "My gut feeling?" he said. "Forgive this personal comment -- I do not want my grandson to get a thimerosal-containing vaccine until we know better what is going on."

But instead of taking immediate steps to alert the public and rid the vaccine supply of thimerosal, the officials and executives at Simpsonwood spent most of the next two days discussing how to cover up the damaging data. According to transcripts obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, many at the meeting were concerned about how the damaging revelations about thimerosal would affect the vaccine industry's bottom line.

More

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0616-31.htm

[greenbriar]

58. do you use antibiotics??? if you do and don't vaccinate you are a hypocrite

n/t

[Rockholm]

60. Sorry. Suspicious of posts that are formatted.

Whenever I see posts that look like this, I generally feel that they have been cut and pasted from elsewhere. These posts just have "the look" of not being quite Kosher.
I doubt you or your post are real. Sorry.

[Midlodemocrat]

66. GMTA.

:rofl:

[greenbriar]

78. what I was thinking too

...

hehe

[freedom_please]

82. I'm Kosher

I've never posted this anywhere... I'll give you every penny I own if you can prove me wrong.

[greenbriar]

90. you don't vaccinate, you coudl be ruining their chances of becoming parents later

my oldest brother caught measles and mumps at the same time when he was 2 months old..he is almost 60 now

he can't have kids

[smoogatz]

91. Yep.

Slightly smelly, this one.

[knitter4democracy]

67. Check out Mothering Magazine and mothering.com.

They're the ones who provide both sides, and do a decent job of it.

There are studies that prove the effectiveness of all the basic vaccines. I read them when I researched it for our children, but I also have access to medical journals and MedLine searches through Hubby.

My hubby's a doctor, and we made sure to get the DTap (for the tetanus, since I didn't want to lose a child to lockjaw), Hib, Polio, and we put off the MMR until they were four and still are putting off the Hep series (A and B) until they're ten or until we travel somewhere we'd need those. We also got the chicken pox one the summer before they started school, since they hadn't gotten the virus yet.

Seriously, that was our best compromise--Hubby wanted them all, and I didn't want any. He convinced of the basic three, and we went from there. He changed his tune when the kids both had adverse reactions (more mild, but still problematic), but they're caught up except for Hep now at 4 and 6.

[freedom_please]

89. I'm up for this compromise

Seriously, that was our best compromise--Hubby wanted them all, and I didn't want any. He convinced of the basic three, and we went from there. He changed his tune when the kids both had adverse reactions (more mild, but still problematic), but they're caught up except for Hep now at 4 and 6.

That's cool... but I'm stunned because you're saying "Both kids both had adverse reaction", yet I get the impression you're okay with that.

That just sets off all kinds of alarm bells to me.

With that said, I really appreciate your honest feedback... I'm going to print this entire post for my wife (she doesn't know about this just yet) and will highlight this reply.

[knitter4democracy]

98. They would get fevers and have trouble sleeping.

My son got swelling at the injection site a couple of times. I wasn't very happy about it at the time, considering I was the one dealing with everything at the time (Hubby was in residency), but as they've gotten older, they've gotten better with the vaccines.

The reality is, though, that those diseases are far, far worse than what my kids dealt with. My aunt got polio, and while she didn't get it as bad as a lot of kids did, she still deals with the fallout as an adult. Hib kills babies and toddlers and is too nasty to think of, and pertussis, while not as lethal in the States, is definitely not something I wanted to deal with (especially after my daughter was diagnosed with asthma, just like my dad).

As for hepatitis B, the chief of Pediatrics at Rainbow Children's Hospital told Hubby in med school that they do it to babies mostly because it is an STD here in the States and teens are hard to vaccinate (they don't come in to see the doctor as often). We fought to hold off on that one. I had a pediatrician try to convince me to get my daughter the pneumo vaccine, but I read up on it in the New England Journal, and it didn't seem to apply to us very well (she didn't develop asthma until she was five).

The best thing to do is get information from legitimate sources (Mothering.com is good for that--even Hubby agreed with their sources) and make the best decision you both can agree on for your baby.

[pitohui]

68. your wife is right and you are wrong

get your baby vaccinated, cripes, this is an easy call

if it's called "anything truth" and it's on the internet, it's a lie, the mercury vaccine hoax is a cruel one and your baby should not have to pay the price

idiots who believe what they see on internet videos need their heads examined frankly

[bicentennial_baby]

86. jeebus, we agree 2x in one day...

now i'm scared.... :scared:

:P

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

73. You Should Absolutely Get Your Child Vaccinated. I Think It Is Extremely Irresponsible Not To.

In fact, your child might not even be allowed into schooling or child care without them.

The vaccines are far safer than the risks of not getting them. I would strongly recommend rethinking your position and I can understand completely why your wife is so concerned. She's in the right here.

[GreenPartyVoter]

97. I weighed the risks and opted to have mine vaccinated

[XemaSab]

99. Vaccines were developed because the diseases they prevent are DEADLY

Yes, there is a small risk of side effects from vaccination, but there's a much greater risk of your baby having long term effects from one of these diseases.

Here is the CDC website:

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/fs/gen/WhatIfStop.htm

[XemaSab]

120. Oh, and just to sensationalize the pro-vaccination argument, here's some people with tetanus:

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

104. k&r Interesting topic & informative replies. nt

[shraby]

107. I maintain a genealogy website and have

entered the causes of death in many of the cemeteries I have online. The cemeteries are filled with children who died of measles, scarlet fever, small pox, diptheria, whooping cough, etc. These deaths were pre-vaccinations. In fact, a funeral was attended by people and it was found that someone at the funeral came down with small pox and the word was put in the newspaper. 2 other people died from their exposure. It was made a law that diptheria victims had to be buried at night. These diseases are really bad and the death rate was very high. One family had 5 children die in a week's time from diptheria. They had come home from a funeral for one and found another had died while they were gone.
Since vaccinations, the picture is a total different scene. I would recommend getting the vacs. I did years ago (I'm 64) as did my whole class at school..that's where we got out shots and boosters. No one even got sick.

[Mick Knox]

114. The argument is wasted breath

you have to get the kid immunized for school anyway, so get it done.

[freedom_please]

118. My wife just got home...

And she's impressed how many responses have come in already...

... Except we're both interested to know why
not one response started with something like,
"Wow, I watched that video and..."

Did you watch the video yet?
If not, here's the link again:

http://snipurl.com/Vaccine_Truth

Please poke holes in the video
(and by the way, I have absolutely
no affiliation with the video --
I simply reference it because
it's very informative and documents
what medical professional think
about vaccinations).

[bicentennial_baby]

127. Sorry, but...

you cannot expect DUers to watch a 90 minute video before they respond to you...It just doesn't work like that.

[gollygee]

133. I think the whole point of this thread

was to get people to watch the video, not to get advice.

[bicentennial_baby]

137. Well then, it was a pretty poor way

of going about it then, wasn't it?

[gollygee]

138. Yes

I just bought An Inconvenient Truth, so that's my movie to watch today. I certainly don't want to invest 90 minutes into someone's wacked-out anti-vaccination crusade.

[freedom_please]

140. Okay, so watch the first few minutes...

Is a few minutes of viewing fair to ask for? Isn't this as important than watching the Anna Nicole Smith funeral?

[LostinVA]

144. Why interject ANS into this? Whatever

Transparent as damned glass.

POLIO POLIO POLIO POLIO POLIO

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

148. I'd like to take my thread k&r back.

tries to pound us about the head with ANS? rolling eye balls here.

[LostinVA]

154. Yup -- exactly

Even if they show the funeral during Prime Time, which they won't -- I wouldn't watch.

Tres good strawman, huh?

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

163. Very good Attempt at a strawman ~ yes.

[bicentennial_baby]

153. Twas my question as well

Je t'aime, mon amie :)

[LostinVA]

155. Je t'aime, aussi

[gollygee]

147. I'm not watching that either

It's obviously going to be a biased movie. I might watch a movie from some unbiased source, if I didn't have something else I was planning to watch tonight.

[Nicole]

134. Speaking for myself, I never click on links from redirect sites.

You posted a url from a redirect site.

What is the real url?

[LostinVA]

141. I'm not watching some damned anti vaccine video

Anymore than I would watch an anti seatbelt law video ir an anti-fluoride in the water video, etc.

Jeebus.

POLIO. POLIO. POLIO.

[LostinVA]

122. Of course vaccines work -- how in the heck can you say they don't???

I have one word to refute your claim:

POLIO.

[TroglodyteScholar]

123. The ONLY response you need to read ***RIGHT HERE***

Shouldn't you really be discussing this with DOCTORS...rather than a group of people whose expertise is limited at best?

Doctors are trained to answer these questions. People on message boards form their opinions from a wide range of fact and fiction. If you care about your child, talk to some people who know wtf they're talking about!

Would you approach a random man on the street for advice on this topic? What you did here is tantamount to that.

[John Q. Citizen]

130. A very valid point, Concerned. Probably the most valid if read on this thread so far.

I haven't read them all yet, so if someone else made the same point up thread, ditto.

[TroglodyteScholar]

151. I didn't read every response, either, so the point may have been made above...

...but I read enough of the responses to know that this exercise in futility will only muddy the waters.

[freedom_please]

149. Maybe, maybe not

Shouldn't you really be discussing this with DOCTORS...rather than a group of people whose expertise is limited at best?

Doctors are compromised... they are bought and paid for by big pharma. It's VERY difficult to find a doctor willing to go on the record about the truth about vaccines.

I'd love to talk to a doctor who would objectively tell my wife and I what to do (there's a post above that I liked... a wife of a doctor who admitted the problems, but recommended a compromise of just 3 vaccines).

That's what we're looking for.

Would you approach a random man on the street for advice on this topic? What you did here is tantamount to that.

As a self-proclaimed message board junkie, I'm confident we'll see at least 5 great replies from parents who did NOT vaccinate. I'd bet some might side with my wife and say there were problems, too. I'm cool with that.

Replies from these parents are (in my book) much better than advice from compromised doctors.

[LostinVA]

159. The huge majority of doctors aren't "bought and paid for by Big Pharma"

Most are dedicated men and women who do NOT make the kind of money you think. They work their asses off.

I know people in both the medical field and who work as Pharma reps. The truth is vastly different from what you think.

[freedom_please]

175. My wife's best friend is a physicians assistant...

... And she reluctantly admitted it.

My regular doctor admitted it (she loves the catered lunches).

Both baby doctors (we moved 5 years ago) admit it --
one admitted to enjoying concert tickets.

I wouldn't make these statements if I didn't personally know it to be true.

My old friend used to sell for big pharma --
ah the stories he used to tell (over an adult beverage) would anger you.

By the way, if you're wondering how big pharma tracks this stuff,
it's actually quite simple -- it's tracked by the number of "scripts"
(that's jargon for prescriptions) written by each doctor.

[TroglodyteScholar]

162. Okay, so you want to see some "great replies" from people who agree with you...

If you're not looking at the possibility of having your mind changed, you need to suck it up and go with the 3-vaccine compromise. Any other way, the kid and your marriage both lose.

There my non-doctor, non-compromised $.02.

[cureautismnow]

129. As long as there is no thimerosol ...

Vaccinate. Otherwise, pass. There's a calculator at the following link that shows you which vaccines still use this vile "cost-saving" preservative: http://www.909shot.com/calc.htm

Mercury should never be shot into adults much less infants. Ask Bill Frist why he stealthily slipped a rider into a homeland security bill to protect the pharmaceutical makers of this crap.

[laundry_queen]

143. My advice.

Don't listen to anyone who calls you an idiot, irresponsible, a horrible parent etc for questioning vaccination. Conversely, don't listen to anyone who tells you that all vaccinations are horrible, damaging and poison to all children. Both sides can get a little crazy when it comes to this issue. The middle of the road is difficult to find.

We have selectively vaccinated our children. What I did was research each and every single disease there is a vaccine for, and researched as much as I could about the pros and cons of each and every vaccine. It is very difficult to get up to date statistics on each disease, and it is also very difficult to get good studies done on the side effects of vaccines. In our case, we decided, having met several vaccine-damaged children, to at least delay vaccination until they were older. During this time period, they were exposed to several diseases (measles, mumps and pertussis) that were actually carried by children who were vaccinated against those diseases. We never did catch them. When my children were between 2-3 years of age, is when we began the rounds of DTaP, Hib and polio. We refused Hep B, Varicella (my children had been through it, with no problems), and the MMR. We will revisit the MMR when our children get closer to puberty.

This is one decision I wouldn't rush. If you have a doctor's appointment on Wednesday, ask if you can come back in a month or so to give you time to research. I also wouldn't base my decision on one single movie. There is a lot of propaganda on both sides. I will say I was scared shitless after meeting 3 vaccine damaged children in our little town. However, in each case there were warning signs that something was not right, such as previous severe reactions in which the parents were told it was "nothing". I made my decision to not vaccinate until my children were old enough to walk and talk and thus any regression would be quite obvious.

One thing important to remember while you are being attacked on this thread is that 30 years ago, the people warning about antibiotic resistance were called loony toons, and quacks. How DARE someone question western medicine's miracle drug? Now antibiotic resistance is reality and accepted by pretty much everyone. I think it's important to question everything, even society's sacred cows. :)

[freedom_please]

158. This is the best reply so far...

I have a question below this great reply:

Don't listen to anyone who calls you an idiot, irresponsible, a horrible parent etc for questioning vaccination. Conversely, don't listen to anyone who tells you that all vaccinations are horrible, damaging and poison to all children. Both sides can get a little crazy when it comes to this issue. The middle of the road is difficult to find.

We have selectively vaccinated our children. What I did was research each and every single disease there is a vaccine for, and researched as much as I could about the pros and cons of each and every vaccine. It is very difficult to get up to date statistics on each disease, and it is also very difficult to get good studies done on the side effects of vaccines. In our case, we decided, having met several vaccine-damaged children, to at least delay vaccination until they were older. During this time period, they were exposed to several diseases (measles, mumps and pertussis) that were actually carried by children who were vaccinated against those diseases. We never did catch them. When my children were between 2-3 years of age, is when we began the rounds of DTaP, Hib and polio. We refused Hep B, Varicella (my children had been through it, with no problems), and the MMR. We will revisit the MMR when our children get closer to puberty.

This is one decision I wouldn't rush. If you have a doctor's appointment on Wednesday, ask if you can come back in a month or so to give you time to research. I also wouldn't base my decision on one single movie. There is a lot of propaganda on both sides. I will say I was scared shitless after meeting 3 vaccine damaged children in our little town. However, in each case there were warning signs that something was not right, such as previous severe reactions in which the parents were told it was "nothing". I made my decision to not vaccinate until my children were old enough to walk and talk and thus any regression would be quite obvious.

One thing important to remember while you are being attacked on this thread is that 30 years ago, the people warning about antibiotic resistance were called loony toons, and quacks. How DARE someone question western medicine's miracle drug? Now antibiotic resistance is reality and accepted by pretty much everyone. I think it's important to question everything, even society's sacred cows.

How did your baby doctor "deal with you" when you expressed concerns?

Was s/he understanding or did you get the "guilt"?

Also, my research tells me once you "go off schedule",
it's either tough or impossible to vaccinate.

Finally, how did you get around the "school mandate" problems?

Again, I really appreciate the balanced advice.

[bicentennial_baby]

172. Because it's exactly what you wanted to hear...

And if you want to get around the school mandates, keep your kid away from the rest of ours. Homeschool.

:puke:

[Redstone]

145. I have a damned healthy 22-year-old, and a damned healthy 10-year-old, both

of whom got the standard course of vaccinations.

Redstone

[mtnester]

146. As a generational who had all the horrid vaccines PLUS the smallpox vaccine

AND mercury fillings, I wonder why the autism rate for my generation was not as high as the numbers I saw you quote in your OP. It just makes me wonder why those of us born in the early 60's did not have the same high autism rate. If additives to vaccines account for this, shouldn't the autism rate have gone statistically through the roof for us late boomers too?

As a person who would have been subject AGAIN to a smallpox re-vaccine if the DHS guidelines would have panned out, the reading material on half/quarter dose vaccine for smallpox is quite frankly terrifying. We all had to read the DHS distributed material, and decide if we wanted the vaccine. Most of the health care field opted OUT, in humongous numbers, so this program pooped out, and I would not have been able to HAVE the vaccine without moving out of my home completely for 45 days (hubby had eczema at one point in his life, and the risk of actually GIVING him smallpox from my wet vaccine was enormous no matter how careful I might have been). I know the disease itself is awful, but if our parents had the kind of information that is known today, I don't know how many of us would have that scar. (We got FULL DOSE vaccine, not the suggested watered down half to one-quarter dose DHS was recommending).

There has to be a combination of a gazillion other factors besides vaccine additives that contribute to this high autism rate.

[LostinVA]

150. POLIO POLIO POLIO SMALLPOX SMALLPOX SMALLPOX

Yup, vaccines don't work. They don't make a damned difference. There was never a time when kid came home from school and was either dead or in an iron lung twelve hours later. Nope.

[Holly_Hobby]

152. I've done alot of research on vaccines

A non-vaccinated child should be subjected to as many vaccinated children as possible. Being exposed to disease builds the immune systems better than any vaccine available. A healthy immune system will still get disease, but at a much, much lesser degree.

For example:
I have two unvaccinated dogs that bred, and the pups weren't vaccinated. The pups were taken everywhere, beginning at 4 weeks of age. They were taken to places with vaccinated dogs and pups, which were shedding the diseases they were vaccinated against. This helps the pups' immunity. At 7 weeks of age, the pups contracted Parvo, and refused meals for one day, had one day of loose stools, and were fine the next. None of the pups died or were sick enough to seek veterinary treatment. Make sense?

Diseases that enter the bloodstream via vaccine are dangerous and actually damage the immune system.

My nephew, on the other hand, had 23 vaccines by the time he was age 1. He's 3 now, with full blown autism. What's the link? I don't know. All I know is I had very healthy pups, who are still healthy at age 7.

P.S. I got a rabies vaccine exemtpion on religious grounds from the local dog warden. I'm sure you could do the same for your child

Titers were done by my vet that showed antibodies for Parvo, and that's how I know the pups had Parvo.

[bicentennial_baby]

156. You are comparing dogs to children?!

First of all, you are an irresponsible pet owner for not vaccinating your dogs. That's just sick.

Plus, I cannot believe you are comparing the social habits and non-vaccination benefits of dogs to those of children! You have truly made me say :wow:

On edit: RABIES EXCEPTION??!!? I cannot f'n believe you...

[LostinVA]

157. It's also usually illegal -- and VERY IRRESPONSIBLE

[bicentennial_baby]

160. I'm seriously at a loss for words...

I mean, :wtf:...On all points...

*shakes head*

[Holly_Hobby]

171. Vaccine research is done on animals

There hasn't been a case of human rabies via an animal in over 60 years, per the dog warden. A religious exemption is not illegal. It's an exemption. My dogs aren't subject to the rabies law.

"Rabies doesn't appear to be a big threat; Lucas County has not had a recorded case of a dog with rabies in more than 50 years, Mr. Skeldon said."

Mr. Skeldon is the dog warden. He stated this in a local newspaper interview.

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070204/NEWS03/702040358&SearchID=73273969877716

You're a victim of scare tactics.

[bicentennial_baby]

173. And they should be...

Last time I checked, dogs don't ascribe to one religion or another...

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

165. Not to mention parvo nearly always KILLS dogs.

We had a dog that survived it, but she was one of the lucky ones. And she came with parvo, my dad picked her up off the streets. She was a young abused pit/GSD mix.

[Holly_Hobby]

166. Who do you think

vaccine research is done on? ANIMALS Then humans.

There hasn't been a case of human rabies here contracted from animals in over 60 years. That was per the dog warden.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

169. You are still subjecting your dogs to the risk of getting rabies, and that is cruel.

Don't think it can't happen. Our dog was in the yard and was approached by a rabid raccoon. It's a damn good thing she had her rabies vaccine.

Not to mention, there aren't cases of human transmission, mostly because pets are vaccinated against rabies.

God.

[LostinVA]

176. You nd the dog warden are 100% wrong

Rabies vaccines for human work, so who knows who contracted rabies. But, let's forget that and the bull about a religious exemption for rabies. Let's talk about Jeanna Geise:


Girl survives rabies without vaccination, first case ever

A girl of 15 has survived rabies without vaccination. Jeanna Geise was given a combination of drugs which cured her rabies.

Her doctors induced a coma in order to stop the spread of the infection. They then started administering a cocktail of drugs. A spinal tap after treatment showed that her immune system was effectively fighting off the virus. She was kept in coma for a week. Dr Rodnay Willoughty, Wisconsin's Children's Hospital, said "No one had really done this before, even in animals. None of the drugs are fancy. If this works it can be done in a lot of countries."

According to the CDC, only 5 people have ever survived a rabies infection after the symptoms appeared - and they had been vaccinated. Current procedure is to give the patient a vaccine containing antibodies (Rabies Immune Globulin), and then five more injections over a period of four weeks.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=16827


Your so-called dog warden is an idiot and should be fired. Allowing rabies exemptions puts humans, pets, wildlife, and livestock at great risk. Ugh.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

168. What State do you live in?

your post~P.S. I got a rabies vaccine exemtpion on religious grounds from the local dog warden. I'm sure you could do the same for your child
end.

I certainly hope is not my State. Never heard the likes of this before!
What is the name of your local dog warden?

[enki23]

161. how's the fishing?

they're biting today, it seems. lots of... less than brilliant fish in the sea. but they are by no means the majority here.

[LostinVA]

164. oh brother

[depakid]

167. I suggest that you show her pictures of the diseases

along with explanations about what happens to kids who get them. It isn't pretty. In fact, it's downright tragic, but for all too many Americans, this is an emotional and not a rational "issue."

[mcscajun]

170. Absence of thimerosal in pediatric vaccines

Mercury and Vaccines (Thimerosal)

At a glance: Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative used in some vaccines and other products since the 1930's. No harmful effects have been reported from thimerosal at doses used in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site. However, in July 1999, the Public Health Service (PHS) agencies, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), and vaccine manufacturers agreed that thimerosal should be reduced or eliminated in vaccines as a precautionary measure. Today, with the exception of some Influenza (flu) vaccines, none of the vaccines used in the U.S. to protect preschool children against 12 infectious diseases contain thimerosal as a preservative.

http://www.cdc.gov/od/science/iso/thimerosal.htm

[Samantha]

174. My brother David died at 17 months from measles and diptheria

My mom had twin boys. They came down with the combination of diseases measles and diptheria. One lived one did not.

My mom did not make a considered decision not to vaccinate her children. She was too poor to do so. She lived in the South and at that time there were no "free" clinics or government support for impoverished parents.

I am at a stage in my life where my child was raised some time ago. I gave her all the vaccinations the doctor recommended. But I am giving you the information about my brother because I have not had to consider these issues for some time and do not have up-to-date information. I cannot contribute more to your decision except to share my personal experiences.

Good luck with your decision.

[LaurenG]

177. Locking

DU members are not qualified to provide medical advice, please seek the advice of a medical professional.



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