Anyone watching 60 Minutes and the hysterical military guy

[Skidmore]

hyperventilating about the internet as a terraist recruiting center. Folks, there coming to get us.

[CatWoman]

1. yup

and I refrained from starting a thread about it.

I'm glad you did :)

:hi:

I take this crap to mean an all-out assault on the internet.

[Skidmore]

4. The wide-eyed hysteria these internet intelligence people

are conveying is astounding. The world is full of jihadis and no person can withstand the evil death rays they send through the internets.

Ye, out there, I scoff at this. It is really hard to believe anything put out by this government or the military.

[StClone]

18. For example of the horrors

Hundreds of thousands of "make war not peace" or "end the Iraq War" coordinated their efforts via the internets. These people must be stopped too.

[Bitwit1234]

2. What's that disease PTSD guess the poor guy's got it.

[Solly Mack]

3. Would my external USB hubs be considered their own cell groups?

If so, does that make me the mastermind?

I'm joking...but I know it is no laughing matter.

[Skidmore]

6. I don't know, Solly, depends on how many

flash drives you have.

[Solly Mack]

8. I am so screwed then :)

On the AFN (Armed Forces Netwrok) they do repeated OPSEC "infomercials" about computer security and the "dangers"

They use a cat, a hamster, and a bunny rabbit to demonstrate the threat of cyber terrorists and hackers. I kid you not.

The cat is the "spy"/"terrorists"/"hacker"

[kestrel91316]

16. The cat is the "spy"/"terrorists"/"hacker" - uh oh.

If I disappear, look for me at Gitmo. As a cat vet, with 4 cats of my own at two locations (home and the clinic) I obviously run two terrorist cells. And all the cats that come and go from here are coming to my training camp.

I knew I should have stayed in mixed practice up in OR all those years ago..........

[Solly Mack]

17. teehee Yep....you need the dogs for cover

[Skidmore]

19. egads and zowee! Who knew we could uncover a

cell so easily. Kestrel....not you!!!

[kestrel91316]

22. Yep, now you'll have to turn me over to Agent Mike.

[Skidmore]

24. I'm kinda wondering if Agent Mike hasn't already visited

this thread in disguise.

[WinkyDink]

5. Yes, and I found him disturbingly FOND of relating gruesome details of murders.

Daniel Pearl, Scott Berg, et al..

Of course, the message was: Kill the Freedom of the Internet.

[WiseButAngrySara]

7. Yep. ....n/t

[scarletwoman]

15. "Of course, the message was: Kill the Freedom of the Internet." No it wasn't!

The message was: there is a violent Muslim jihadi subculture that is successfully using the internet to recruit operatives and spread its particularily virulent strain of radical Islam.

This actually IS a real problem. It has nothing to do with "the Freedom of the Internet", it has to do with the CULTURAL problem of young people being influenced by a poisonous doctrine.

I heard nothing in the program that even hinted at any sort of general threat against internet freedom. The countermeasures discussed in the program were very specifically targeting the jihadi sites. So unless you are publishing bomb-making instructions in Arabic, your "Freedom of the Internet" is not under threat by anything discussed in this program.

sw

[IronScorpio5]

20. SW....100% CORRECT.

I'M glad you said it.

[WinkyDink]

38. Sometimes I get a wee paranoid over this issue. Perhaps I over-reacted.

Should we shut down American military recruitment sites? They want young Americans to sign up to kill Iraqis.

[wtmusic]

32. 'Very specifically targeted against the jihadi sites'

There's your slippery slope, right there.

What about anti-American sites? Sites that promote anti-American rallies? Is being anti-American poisonous? What is an 'operative'?

It doesn't take too much imagination to see that this discussion has a whole lot to do with the threat against internet freedom.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

9. Any citizenry desires objective information, with which to draw their own conclusions. A

Constitutional government welcomes this truth, an unconstitutional government fears it. MKJ

[scarletwoman]

10. Yes, I'm watching it. It's specifically about jihadi internet sites, and how they recruit suicide

operatives in the Muslim world. It's actually a very interesting and informative piece, and the "military guy" is NOT hysterical, he's merely stating the facts.

Isn't it a bit precipitous to post a judgement about a broadcast before actually watching the whole thing?

sw

[Skidmore]

13. I think that piece was over the top hysterical.

Now, I realize that "jihadists" (whoever they may be, and the definition changes with regularity) may very well be using the internet, but I am highly skeptical of their influence and numbers. I responded to the tone and with it in mind that there has not been a whole lot of truth coming out of our side of this conflict either. I do not and will not live in constant fear and fuel either machine.

[scarletwoman]

21. Hysterical? -- it wasn't even NEWS to anyone who's been paying attention.

The role of the internet in spreading a violent, radical form of Islam has been known about and discussed for years. I don't see it as fearmongering, it's simply something that's happening in the world.

We discuss and analyze how destructive right wing memes get spread in OUR culture, why wouldn't we also be interested in discussing and analyzing how destructive radical Islamist memes are being spread in THEIR culture?

sw

[Skidmore]

23. THEIR culture became our problem only when

we insisted on gouging away at it. I don't live in fear of these people. I know enough of the cultures of the middle east to understand that the vast majority of people are just trying to survive. When this government of ours really wants to get serious about "jihadis" and start taking on the Saudis and the Pakistanis, then talk to me. I'm more inclined to believe a certain amount of this is psy-ops too. I personally have no trust for any government with irons in this fire. Not a single one of them.

[TheCowsCameHome]

11. That's it. I'm putting a bag over my screen when I leave the room.

Can't be too careful..............

[Skidmore]

14. Probably a lot more effective than

duct tape and plastic over the windows.

[napi21]

12. Well, I watched the whole thing, and I'm very skeptical.

I have no doubt the Jihadists are using the Internet, andI'm sure they're looking for recruits, but this piece sounded way to finatical to me.

The evangelicals, Pubs, Dems, Libertarians, and everybody else is using the internet to recruit too. My guess is that unless someone is already looking for groups like any of them, there's really not much of a threat.

Way too much of a scare piece by 60 Minutes as far as I can tell.

[scarletwoman]

27. I'm truly astounded that anyone saw this as a "scare piece".

:shrug: So, whatever. I give up, I'm out of this thread.

sw

[Skidmore]

30. Why should you be astounded?

* and his government has been screaming "terra, terra, terra" at every chance they've had for years now. They've done this with leaving wide open borders in this nation and botching the hot wars they've embarked on. They have compounded this by lying about anything and everything at every turn. You actually expect people to crumble in fear when someone yells "terra" yet again? If there were as many jihadists as you seem to be convinced there are, this nation would be swimming in blood by now and our cities would look like Baghdad or Beirut.

[scarletwoman]

31. Tell it to all the hundreds of Iraqis who have been blown up in their street markets in the month of

February alone. THEY are the ones suffering from the successful recruitment of suicide bombers -- it isn't always about US.

There IS a cancer growing in the Islamic world. Just because it isn't affecting US doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, that it isn't destructive, and that human beings aren't suffering as a result.

Are DUers such narcissists? The fact that Baghdad "looks like Baghdad" -- doesn't that bother you?

sw

[napi21]

33. Wait a minute! You're telling me that hundreds of Iraqi's have been

blown up in February alone(which I believe) and it's because some radical jihadists in Bagdad are being recruited on the internet? Do you REALLY believe the internet is a BIG THING in Iraq right now?

I don't buy that. I think it's a Religious war in Iraq, between the Sunni and Shia, and the Americans who are trying to stop it are seen as being against both sides.

[scarletwoman]

36. Basically, yes. But the recruitment doesn't necessarily happen in Iraq, it happens all over.

Doesn't anyone here read Juan Cole? There has been a steady influx of foreign jihadis, salafis and wahabis into Iraq for years, and one of the things they do is target Shiites, because they believe that Shia Islam is a heretical sect. And one of the ways in which they are recruited is through the Arabic jihadi sites which are accessible anywhere in the world.

"I think it's a Religious war in Iraq, between the Sunni and Shia" -- that's an overly simplistic view. There are many more facets to the violence in Iraq than just one sect against another. There are sects within sects, tribal power struggles, and struggles over the very nature of Islam itself.

Wahabism, the fundamentalist strain of Islam that originated in Saudi Arabia, has been making inroads into the Sunni Iraq communities since the U.S. invasion -- where it never before had a foothold. Foreign recruits have been welcomed into some Sunni areas as allies in the insurgency against the occupation. The insurgency has now branched out into a struggle to topple the Shiite-dominated Iraqi government -- seen as puppets of the U.S. -- as part of the Sunni struggle to regain its former political domination.

The governments of Saudi Arabia and Egypt, for example, are more than happy to see their discontented young men set off for Iraq to die as martyrs -- taking out as many Shiites and/or Westerners as possible -- and some (not all, by any means) Iraqi Sunnis are glad for the help.

The "religious war" also encompasses the entire Ummah, there is a very real battle going on for the soul of Islam itself -- just as there is a battle in this country for the soul of Christianity being waged by the rightwing fundy christianists. The radical strain of intolerance and violent jihad arising out of Islamic fundamentalism is a real and growing problem in the Muslim world, and it IS being effectively fueled in part by the internet sites refered to in the 60 Minutes segment.

The 60 Minutes piece was not some vapid "terra! terra!" con job. It was a factual look at a real phenomenon.

As I said above, it isn't always about US.

sw

[napi21]

37. I didn't mean toinsuinate that it was all about the US.

I KNOW the UShas made the situation in the ME much worse than it ever was. I guess myunderlying point was that if the US wasn't there at all, this fight would continue, the same as all religious wars did in the past, until one group won a majority large enough to stop the rest. I somewhat remember studying the crusades in grade school. I don't remember much,but they also were religious wars that finally came to an end.

i have no idea what the solution is to the mess we've created in Iraq, but I do believe that by staying there, we are just making matters worse.

All the believers in Islam are going to have to work this out amoung themselves, and unfortunately, I'm afraid it will take many years and many lives to do so.

[Skidmore]

39. That Baghdad looks like Baghdad is largely

the result of people like this man who was on 60 Minutes whipping up the fear here. It is the result of neocon fearmongering and the cancer in the Islamic world are people reacting to being exploited over the past century of Big Oil and Big Bidness. WE do contribute to this mess, so a large part of it is about US. Perhaps if we would quit trying to drown the Middle East in the proverbial bath tub and work with them, people would not feel the need to lash out.

[many a good man]

25. They're everywhere

[Skidmore]

26. Oh, no, it's

Evil Bert!!!!

[Digit]

28. Didn't 60 Minutes just do a similar story last week?

Too much freedom in the tubes seems to be the message.

[peacetalksforall]

29. Yep, very dangerous - people posting about peace, not war. Yep,

the internet is not owned by war-mongers only. For the purpose of war-mongering and lying about war involvement and stealing money for war and hiding money for war. The issue, SIR, is secrecy. The internet is not as secret as you would like it bo be. But, better listen to our voices - we want peace for children. And their parents and grandparents.

SPEAK UP FOR PEACE. LET GUYS LIKE THIS KNOW - WE WANT PEACE. HE IS THE ODD MAN OUT throughout history and mankind. Blessed be the Peacemakers... Blessed be the Peaceseekers... Blessed be those who work for Peace!

[Deja Q]

34. Don't start hyperventilating either.

[Edweird]

35. we hadda bomb th' internets....they was harborin' terrerists'... in th' tubes