Global Warming is a universal issue. It will cause famine, disease, war, death and suffering....

[Harper_is_Bush]

from so many causes.

Should posts concerning this issue be regulated to a sub section of DU that has less exposure?

Is this really just an "environmental" issue, or is it one of universal impact/concern/effect that should be given as much exposure and generate as much concern as...say, perhaps, the war in Iraq?

Imagine if we relagated any and all posts concerning Iraq to the back rooms.

PS. Offset what you can't reduce. Two worthy and obviously legit offset websites: www.terrapass.com www.my-climate.com

[lvx35]

1. Give it a little time.

Soon, it won't even be called Global warming anymore, it'll just called "the issue".

[Harper_is_Bush]

5. Don't take that for granted....

...I'm sure you've noticed the right-wing campaign to make global warming a non-issue and discredit anyone attempting to champion it. In the past such campaigns have had success, perhaps due to insufficient opposition.

Let's now allow global warming to be such an issue.

[MADem]

2. Well, it depends on the post. I guess. If it were up to me, and it isn't.

If it's an environment-centric discussion, well, yes. If it's primarily political, maybe not.

But I guess the problem is that a few people can't stay civil. That's why if you even mention that it's the Prime Minister of Israel's birthday, or the head of the Palestinian authority got a boil removed from his ass (neither of these are presently valid news stories, fwiw) then the topic AUTOMATICALLY gets shuttled to the Israel - Palestine forum. That whole thing is so stupid that if you post about something Israel does with IRAN, half the time it ends up there too, even if the Palestinians aren't even mentioned.

Same with Nahn Wun Wun. You say that Rudy mentioned Nahn Wun Wun in a speech, and boom--off it goes to the Nahn Wun Wun conspiracy theory graveyard, even if the discussion is centering around the candidacy of ThreeWives McShithead himself.

It's a bit odd. But I guess there are people here who won't discuss things civilly, so that's how it's handled.

Unfortunately.

[Harper_is_Bush]

3. Israel is off topic. What happens in Israel does not affect the entire world for generations...

with all respect to Israel and the issues it faces, of course.

I don't have an issue with people not discussing global warming in a civil manner. Pretty much everyone at DU is on the same page over global warming.

edit: effect s/b affect

[MADem]

4. Well, if they serve as our proxy to drop a nuke somewhere, they could do just that

Or if someone else dumps a nuke on them and pollutes the region like Chernobyl.

I think it's the topic derailers, no matter WHAT the subject, that cause the difficulties. The huge spitting, long, big slant to the right subthreads of 'DID TOO...DID NOT....Well, YOU don't have a CLUE...Humph!!! You have your FACTS wrong!!!!! ' and next thing ya know, the thread is five hundred posts of pissing, moaning and damned little discussion.

I guess those global warming posts are ripe for that kind of crap. Who knows, maybe a bunch of concern trolls and disruptors who were on the "It's Just Natural Climate Change" GOP team helped push the subject in a corner.

Hey, if it keeps popping up in mainstream discussion, it will eventually migrate. Just like if there's a war in Israel, that will migrate as well...

[Harper_is_Bush]

7. even that does not compare to global warming n/t

[MADem]

9. Well, that 'this issue is more important than any other, ever' attitude is probably

one of the things that serves to move it to a separate forum. It is important, but we aren't going to all die tomorrow. To people living in the West Bank or Haifa, I'd wager that the issue I mentioned has more immediate interest in their heirarchy of things to worry about. People who are starving in Africa or elsewhere on the globe don't have other issues besides their next meal at the top of their agenda.

Where you stand depends on where you sit, or live.

When there's a sense that everyone has to stop living, push their own issues to the side, and devote themselves to one singular cause without ceasing, that's when the posts get pushed off to a "y'alll go on and get all excited over HERE" forum.

There are a lot of woes in the world. Global warming is a big one. But it's not the ONLY one.

[Harper_is_Bush]

10. No, we're not all going to die tomorrow.

Did someone tell you we were?

I stand behind my comment that the suffering stemming from global warming will outweigh all other considerations. The sooner people realize that simple fact, the sooner they will do everything they can to adress it. Nobody has to "devote themselves to one singular cause", as you say. People do need to do everything they can do, which is not hard.

Perhaps when we start to hear about the effects of global warming in Israel you'll start to treat it with a little more seriousness.

[MADem]

11. And I stand behind my comment that where you stand depends on where you sit, or live

If you don't have any food to live through tomorrow, well, to hell with global warming. To a hungry person, it does NOT outweigh all other considerations. No matter how much you insist that it does.

To someone living in Iraq who is afraid they'll get blown up on their way to work every day, it isn't the most important issue.

To someone who is dying of cancer, it's way at the back of the bus.

To my friend with ALS and a few painful months, maybe weeks to go, global warming can go fuck itself. He won't live to see it. He'd rather see a magic cure for what ails, and is killing, him.

No offense, but you apparently have no other immediate concerns. How very fortunate for you.

Others do.

As I said, it's IMPORTANT. I grant that. But it ain't the only cheese on the cheese tray. No matter how many times you say it is, you aren't changing my view on this. It's only the most important and immediate cheese...to YOU.

[Harper_is_Bush]

12. You're splitting some hairs there

obviously in your examples, to those people, it is not the most important issue.

If a car is speeding towards me on the sidewalk global warming would no longer be the most important issue to me.

But if you're talking about issues in universal terms, then global warming outweighs them all. The suffering it will cause, if human suffering is your main concern, will outweigh all other things.

[MADem]

13. I am not splitting hairs. I am saying that some people don't agree with your insistence that

global warming is Job One. That's just a fact. I'm not characterizing that fact in any way, but your insistence that I'm wrong, that I am splitting hairs, or what-have-you does not change the simple fact that not everyone agrees with you.

Your example of a speeding car is a poor one. That's a transient issue, that's over the minute the car splatters you all over the sidewalk, or you jump out of the way.

Hunger, OTOH, is a full-time, year round "job." So is trying to survive in a war-without-end-Amen war zone. Many people in wealthy, industrialized countries don't have an awareness of how the other half struggles to live. The people suffering in Darfur likely give two shits about global warming, because genocide trumps that issue for them. And that's completely understandable, given their circumstances.

[Harper_is_Bush]

15. Oh I know some people don't agree with that....

Folks like Tim Ball, Bob Carter, Tim Patterson, Rush, etc...

You talk about hunger outweighing global warming as a "job". Hunger IS global warming. War IS global warming. Mass migration (read: refugees) IS global warming. Global Warming will be the source of destruction in all areas of progressive interests,causes, and concerns.

[MADem]

16. Well, I am about done /Done/DONE with this. That's as low as it goes.

You've just demonstrated in plainly "me/me/me...MY/MY/MY" terms exactly why these threads get shuffled off to "speciality" forums. You refuse to acknowledge that others who have LEGITIMATE ISSUES may not feel as you do when it comes to PRIORITIZING issues.

What a cheap shot--people who don't agree with "YOU" are compared, in your own rather mean words, with, among others, RUSH (well done, that--totally lousy and deliberately cruel--a lame attack, bordering on personal, for shame). You list a group of people who are assholes as strawman confederates of anyone who doesn't see things PRECISELY the way you do.

That's pretty low, and if you think about what you did you would see that.

And it's done without a shred of embarrassment. Frankly, that sort of tactic gives those GOP South Park Snark Buttheads on the right a whole ton of ammo. That's the sort of intolerant perspective you'd see coming out of a clownish righty CHARICATURE of a liberal. Well done... uh....not.

Your rather myopically refuse to acknowledge that there is any other worldview than your own.

You argue from positions that are absolutely ludicrous if your perspective is that of a DARFUR refugee, a terminally ill person, anyone living on the desperate margins. Your privleged or suburban glory pervades.

Now, what would the poor schmuck from Darfur say about your INSISTENCE about the overarching importance of this matter? "Gee, which shall I choose? A focus on global warming, or a focus on the females in my family not being raped and murdered when they go to the well for water?? Oh, WHICH is more important?"

OK, come along now--let's explain to the guy dying of cancer why global warming is more important than cancer research! Sure, the drama and SINCERITY that you exude will convince the guy! It's YOUR cause, thus, it must be his--he has days to live, but let's put global warming first.

Give me a break.

Here is the truth. Some people actually do not see these issues as you do. That is not speculation, it is simple fact. And you need to "appreciate" it. And UNDERSTAND it. And realize it. Anything else is, well, intolerant. You aren't going to convince ANYONE by stomping your foot and saying "Because I SAID so!!!!"

YES, global warming is a key issue. So is saving the lives of people who are dying of malnutrition, who are dying because of war, famine, disease, you name it.

One more time. Where you stand depends entirely on where you sit.

I am not quantifying or characterising this truth, I am simply stating it. You need to get the spirit, and join the world.

A lot of us CAN walk and chew gum.

I think it's time for me to disengage on this. You are entrenched.

Have the last word, enjoy yourself.

[sutz12]

6. Actually, I would say "It IS causing......"

No need to wait. It's already here.

[Harper_is_Bush]

8. Yes, it IS causing those things. But it WILL cause much more of it in future....

the worst is yet to come.

The worst scenario can be avoided if we quite treating this like some fashionable environmental topic and start treating it like the all-encompassing issue it truely is. The pain/death/suffering that will arise from global warming will outweigh all the wars of the 21st century.

[donsu]

14. global warming is THE most important issue

nt