You know, I understand most people don't think Kucinich has a hope in hell...

[originalpckelly]

But let's think about it for a minute. Why do we really think he can't win? Looks? The high pitched voice? The trophy wife?

I don't know, I think he might be a kind of quirky candidate. I mean look at Ross Perot in '92, the fella was very popular, he might have even been President had he not done the whole pull out then go back in bit.

Dennis Kucinich was actually right about the war. He's right now. It makes me wonder what else he's right about.

Maybe he wasn't lucky in life to be a gigantic strapping fella, but you know, he's got something: logic and foresight enough to know this thing in Iraq wouldn't work out. Those are the things that matter, we need to stop being so shallow a nation. It may be that this is one of the only people with the right leadership skills at this time in our history.

Clinton, Obama, Edwards, and just about everyone else in the field, leave attacks on Iran on the table. That's not an option unless Iran attacks us or is an imminent threat. I don't even think Iran with a nuke is an imminent threat, because if they even so much as nuke the US or Israel, there won't be an Iran. Both Israel and America have lots of nukes, and I assure you, even I wouldn't have qualms about using them if we were attacked with nuclear weapons.

So these people currently running at the forefront are not either intelligent enough to figure this out or they are merely taking a political position, and playing politics with other people's lives.

Representative Kucinich is not doing that.

I don't know, I think we all want to win bad, and the alternative to these warmongering democrats is even worse: a war mongering hate filled Republican. However, maybe we shouldn't write this man off.

Now, admittedly, I'm not familiar with all of Representative Kucinich's positions on all the issues other than war, and I will look at them in more detail, but I think we need to really keep our minds open.

[k8conant]

1. Check out his website then...

http://kucinich.us/

[originalpckelly]

6. Actually, I just went to Google and started reading it...

I agree to some degree. I believe in universal health care, but I don't believe it ought to be the government, I think it should be a type of private charity system. I also think health companies ought to be democratic companies, where the investors and the workers work and make decisions together.

I believe in everything he does, but I believe everything he talks about in the sense of government intervention should still be done by the people, but in democratically controlled companies, what many might call "co-ops", though I envision a stronger more capitalism oriented approach.

I think we should pull out of NAFTA as well.

Now I believe that only because I believe its a part of a separation of powers doctrine for a life, not just government. However, if in some way I should be wrong about that, I would completely support his positions.

I have to say I like this guy the more I read!

[jwirr]

13. As someone who relies on government health care now - I decline.

I do not want to go to someones charity for health care, either they make you pray or they want you to come to their church or they don't want to serve certain kinds of people or some other damn shit. What ever makes people think that private is better and cheaper? There are any number of private charities that have taken the money and put it into their own pockets and there is no oversight with private agencies.

Government is only as good as the people we elect/hire to run it and in many states they deliberately make the programs bad because they think of them that way - i.e. *ss in Texas and Jeb in Florida. Where I am at they believe that government should help the people and they use their oversight rights to make it work.

[originalpckelly]

20. No, I don't mean that kind of charity. I mean a "people" owned charity...

not a fundie owned charity.

The reason that I don't support it is a separation of powers issue.

[jwirr]

34. Why is the government paying for medical services an issue

of separation of powers? I don't get it? They do not run the clinics and hospitals, etc. they merely pay the bills sent in by the providers.

[we can do it]

97. At Least You Have Healthcare

[jwirr]

98. Yes but I have family members who do not and some of them have

severe problems. We need to do this now for the sake of so many.

[we can do it]

105. I May Have Misread Your Post - I Agree We Must Do It For Everyone

I personally have healthcare, but each year the services are cut and prices are becoming prohibitive. My partner just lost her job, so she will be without unless she can get another job with benefits....and unfortunately I cannot add her to mine because of the ridiculous prejudice of the people of ohio...but that's another issue....

[jwirr]

106. I hear what you are saying and I beleive that you should be able to

have any beneficiary to your health program you want. All they have to do is write the bill to let an adult claim a partner - regardless of the sexual orientation or marital standing.

[we can do it]

108. The Thought of Elderly (or anyone) Chosing Between Food & Meds Breaks My Heart

Where is the compassion for our fellow human beings?

[skipos]

2. He doesn't want to be President

He is running to be able to bring up issues.

[originalpckelly]

7. I don't know, if he doesn't actually intend to win...

we might have to draft him. He's got the right idea.

[NobleCynic]

36. Oh nonsense

Of course he wants it. Because he knows he probably can't have it, he uses his run to bring up issues. Doesn't mean he doesn't want it.

[skipos]

43. I've talked to two people who have worked for him

and neither one thinks he wants to be president. Maybe you are right and they are wrong. :shrug:

[NobleCynic]

56. If he won

Would he turn it down?

Mind you, I don't see wanting the job as a negative. Especially if one wants the job for a cause or a reason, as I believe he does. He would do something with the office because he has strong beliefs. If you want it just for the title, you don't deserve it. I earnestly wish that he was a contender. But it isn't a job you run for unless you want it.

His primary motivation may be to get his agenda across. That may come first and foremost. But deep down he has to want it. If he didn't, I don't think he would make a good president.

[skipos]

73. He is not in it to win it

When is the last time someone who didn't want to win won the nomination? Taft maybe, and that was a century ago. Primaries are very different now.

Kuc winning the primary is like Nader winning the general election: it isn't the goal, and they know it isn't going to happen.

[Robbien]

3. This is what I hope

The wingnut attack machine goes after all the other so called top tier democratic candidates. After the dust clears from all the rest the best man is left standing, Kucinich.

Dennis best reflects my stance on almost every single issue.

[mike_c]

4. DK has been right about damned nearly everything that's happened...

...in the last six years AND HE HAS NEVER SOLD OUT OR BACKED DOWN. Not even when his own party betrayed him, e.g. at the national convention in 2004.

Saying that Kucinich can't win is tantamount to saying that the truth cannot be spoken, that reality cannot be recognized, and that this country cannot face its own future. If Kucinich cannot win the presidency in America, then we are lost.

[TahitiNut]

19. Well said! Kucinich is better than this country deserves.

I have a hard time even finding something to quibble with him on. He's as mainstream a liberal as I've ever seen, in the best sense.

It's stunning that the Democratic Party 'faithful' doesn't realize they could nominate a ham sandwich and win in 2008. The Cheney/Bush administration is a complete and total disaster and the country (finally) realizes it. By 2008, the GOP couldn't take the Presidency if the dug up Ronald Reagan and ran him. What disturbs me even more is that the Democratic Party 'elite' DO know they could only lose in 2008 if they really tried ... and that's why there's a BATTLE for control of the Party. The global corporate interests don't want to give up any more than they absolutely must ... and they're BUYING a lien on any Democratic candidate they can find with room in their pockets.

If Kucinich can be bought ... they haven't yet reached the price or evrn close to it.

[LSK]

40. GREAT POST

:thumbsup:

[Luckyduck]

5. His other positions?

Universal Health Care

Repeal the Patriot Act

End the Drug War

No war in Iran

Withdraw from NAFTA and the WTO

Hand Counted, paper ballots counted and posted at the precincts.

He is our best hope to return this country to the people!
(And by the way, he is the same height as McCain, Bush and Cheney are not much taller....but you don't hear anyone making fun of them)

[puebloknot]

95. "...he is the same height as McCain.." and a lot smarter

...and a lot more ethical.

I've met the man on a couple of occasions. High-pitched voice? Oh, really! I didn't notice that.

What I did notice is the aura of intelligence and integrity that he carries with him. Winston Churchill would not have been my choice for a male beauty pageant, but the guy got the people behind him.

And remember how we used to hear all that crap about how Al Gore wore dowdy brown suits, and just couldn't seem to reach out and touch people? He touched me. I never paid attention to what he was wearing because I'm not that completely superficial, as many of our news models are.

America needs to grow up and stop letting television tell them how to think, when to think, what to think. Think? What the F*** is that?

Dennis Kucinich has all the right ideas for bringing this country out of the deep hole it's fallen into.

His health care plan, as I've heard him talk about it, would be patterned after the one that the members of Congress enjoy. He's talking about taking money already being wasted on unnecessary emergency room care (because with no insurance, there's no other choice for some people), and making health insurance available to *everyone*!

It's immoral to keep medical coverage from a large segment of the American population because some people are so afraid of *socialized medicine*! No one is talking about taking away our right to choose our own doctor. We are wasting enough money on inefficient health care to pay for good health coverage for everyone, if the whole thing were just organized.

The huge numbers of uninsured, not to mention extremely worried, people in the country today will tell you that "socialized" medicine is better than no medicine at all.

It is absurd that this country cannot organize itself to offer health care to its citizens. It's an embarrassment before the world community -- among many other embarrassments.

As to Dennis K's "trophy wife," she is bright and beautiful and it's no one's business what fed into those two people, with years of age difference, coming together. I'd rather see Elizabeth Kucinich as First Lady than one Laura Bush. The new Mrs. Kucinich has a great deal of poise and intelligence -- a certain well-thought-out grounding in her own worldview -- that many other first ladies have lacked.

End of rant. Kucinich should be honored for his personal courage!

[mmonk]

8. He's got my vote if he stays in the race

at least to when my state votes. I'm through "triangulating" to the repuke lites in order to win. I haven't won yet with that strategy. If I'm going down, I'm going down swinging and right in my cause.

[Mind_your_head]

9. Ross Perot would've probably made a great president......

....he was mostly an idealist (with the businessman's instincts/rules behind him).

In light of what we know now, you really have to go back and look at/suspect some of the machinations that went into his being 'in' then being 'out'. Oh, I'd bet there were HUGE dealings going on behind the scenes. Any one who would want to examine this for a doctoral thesis, for example, would probably be AMAZED (and enlightened?).

Very humbly in my opinion and with Peace,
M_Y_H

[TahitiNut]

10. Huh?

:rofl:

[Mind_your_head]

16. Why do you think I'm 'way off' in what I said?

Please don't just laugh, explain. Perhaps I'm wrong.

Peace,
M_Y_H

[TahitiNut]

22. Perot could have been as bad as Junior ... or worse, a competent version.

He was the darling of social conservatives and the business lobby. His only appeal was his populist touch ... and his natural style is VERY autocratic. Perot didn't tolerate dissent.

But that's just IMHO. :shrug:

[originalpckelly]

24. He'd have been business oriented, but I don't think he'd have been a war mongerer...

nor would he have had his winky wacked or been a NAFTA loving corporatist.

Capitalism should be opposed to NAFTA type agreements, because they encourage slavery with a small percentage on the side to please the workers just enough to keep them working, but to never give them hope or control over their lives.

[Mind_your_head]

31. thank you for your response. I have to say that

1) I wasn't as 'politically aware' back then as I am now (and am in no way purporting to be a 'genius' now.)

2) There was something "very weird" about Perot's actions back then......he was being forced/coerced/something BIG was going on behind the scene. I remember that clearly. But back then 'we didn't ask questions' b/c we figured that the GROWN-UPS were in charge and, hell, that's why we elected and paid them to WATCH OUT FOR OUR BEST INTERESTS and we assumed they were doing so (we knew it was dirty, but just didn't want it to 'soil' us).

3) I come from a community of small/mid-size business owners. They're crushed/gone and the 'very few' that are still there hear the death-knell.....they've sucked up to the politicos but once they are dead/gone (cause favors are stilled owed), their family's businesses are stone-cold dead. I think Perot would have at least stood up for the mid/small biz guy (and, ultimately their employees)....unlike *co who doesn't worry about anyone. Just sells to the highest bidder.

[hfojvt]

61. I have a very hard time believing that a billionaire is the best person

to look after small business owners. According to wiki, most of his proposals sound pretty right-wing
"With such declared policies as balancing the federal budget, enacting the right to life amendment, expansion of the war on drugs, ending outsourcing of jobs, opposition to gun control, belief in protectionism on trade, his support of the Environmental Protection Agency and enacting electronic direct democracy via "electronic town halls," he became a potential candidate and soon polled roughly even with the major party candidates."

It also mentions that he made his fortune from "lucrative government contracts" so his business does not sound more legitimate than Halliburton. Hapgood slams him pretty hard in his book "The Screwing of the Average Man" altough he only talks about him for one page.

Perot, unlike Kucinich, became a viable candidate because he had $65 million of his own money to spend on campaign infomercials.

[onenote]

26. self delete

[ripple]

85. Perot came across as a revolutionary eccentric

until people realized they were confusing eccentricity with raging, self-indulgent insanity.

[Mira]

11. He is my number one choice by far. I love DKucinic and meant to

ask him to marry me instead of the trophy wife Elizabeth - but - alas, I did not do it in time.
He is very involved in getting the Department of Peace established. I heard and saw him speak, along with Walter Kronkite and Marianne Williamson in DC. He is cute as a button. He may be a small man, but other than that he is a BIG DEAL and voices how I feel about just about everything.
I wish he would be taken seriously. I'll be at the march on Saturday, and he will be there again.
Hurrah !

[originalpckelly]

21. I don't know, it might be possible to overcome the shallowness of people in America...

by endearing him to them. If he could pull off the folksy people oriented system, I think that might very well be powerful enough for him.

[MonkeyFunk]

12. Only on DU

can most people believe Hillary Clinton is unelectable, but seriously entertain the notion that Dennis Kucinich is.

[mmonk]

15. She is.

[Luckyduck]

17. Why is Hillary electable?

Republicans hate her, Democrats hate her...she appeals to the Corporate media and AIPAC.
That is just not good enough this time around!

[MonkeyFunk]

18. yet

she won handily last time in New York, she's currently the only candidate who beats Giuliani and McCain in polls, and she's one of the most widely-admired women in the world.

Why is Kucinich MORE electable?

[Luckyduck]

27. Kucinich represents the majority of the American people

The majority want an end to the war in Iraq, and the prevention of war in Iran.

The majority want Universal Health Care

The majority want to repeal the patriot act

The majority want fair elections

In a democracy- the majority is supposed to decide elections, not the media and not diebold.

Who does Hillary represent?

[MonkeyFunk]

29. It's not even worthy of discussion

If you think Kucinich is more electable than Clinton, more power to you.

[Luckyduck]

30. Kucinich is a real leader!

He has been leading the effort to stop Bush in the House of Representatives.

He led the effort to stop Iraq.

He is leading the effort to stop Iran, even when most Democrats voted for the "Iran Freedom Support Act"

He stayed up all night reading the patriot act and led the effort against it.

Our president should be a person who stands out as a leader of,by and FOR the people,
not just someone who feels like being president because they have the money and connections.

[MonkeyFunk]

33. a leader needs followers

he only averaged about 3% in the Democratic primaries last time, if I recall correctly.

He's the leader of a very small faction.

[Luckyduck]

35. The Corporate media pretended he didn't exist

because he is a threat to their interests.

It is up to US, the netroots, to work around the Corporate media, not give in to them.

[MonkeyFunk]

37. sorry

he gets very little attention because he has so little support.

He's a novelty candidate.

[Joe Chi Minh]

92. A lot has happened since then. And none of it to merely negligible detriment

of the country.

[bigluckyfeet]

62. If * can be elected

So can Kucinich.Kucinich in 2008!

[rinsd]

81. That's why the majority carried him last election!

Oh wait you say he was lucky to ganer double digits in a handful of states?

Why that doesn't sound like the majority.

"The majority want an end to the war in Iraq, and the prevention of war in Iran."

Which is a position that most of the Democrats running are taking.

"The majority want Universal Health Care"

The majority wants everyone to get medical coverage but this is misleading. Universal Health Care comes under a few forms but the one Kucinich supports is single payer which does not enjoy the high approval ratings of the name Universal Health Care.

"The majority want to repeal the patriot act"

Which is a position that most of the Democrats runnign will take.

"The majority want fair elections"

Fair elections are many things to many people. What do you mean by fair election?

"In a democracy- the majority is supposed to decide elections, not the media and not diebold."

See this is my real issue with Kucinich supporters. They recognize the limitations of their candidate but deal with those limitations by pretending that they don't exist

He's not a good fundraiser and he has shown poor campaign organization and that's before getting into the superficial things that quite a few people are indeed influenced by. You can't say well they shouldn't be so superficial and expect some magic to take place altering reality.

[rinsd]

83. Because people know her and respect her.

"Republicans hate her, Democrats hate her"

Correction. DUers and the more lefties branch is not fond of Clinton. But she is immensly popular with Democrats.

[blm]

103. Hillary's electable because BushInc needs another Clinton in place to continue

the coverups for secrecy and privilege.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0511-29.htm

[originalpckelly]

23. She's electable, but she finds the candy of children delectable.

OK, I couldn't pass the rhyme up, but seriously, she's a no-philosophy-tell-anyone-anything-they-want-to-hear-to-get-elected hack.

[LSK]

38. how about the most qualified candidate

That would be Kucinich.

[MonkeyFunk]

39. that's one opinion

[LSK]

41. tell me what issue he is wrong about?

http://kucinich.us/issues

Oh but hes too short, nevermind!

[MonkeyFunk]

42. I'm not discussing issues..

I'm discussing the ridiculous notion that he's electable.

But to pick two: chemtrails and mind-control. He's a new-age kinda guy, bless him, but America's not ready to elect a woo-woo to the Presidency.

[eridani]

44. They already did

Core Bush supporters are looking forward to the destruction of the world while Jesus lifts them out of the mess, and they can enjoy watching the godless get disembowelled. The whackiest of New Agers are way saner than that--they're just not as well organized.

[MonkeyFunk]

45. no

they're no saner.

But I agree they're not as well-organized.

[eridani]

107. Of course they're saner

They're merely fantasists, whereas the Bush whackjob base is sociopathic. That's what I'd call people who enjoy fantasies of watching their neighbors suffer horrors and observing from on high.

[LSK]

46. this is what the "woo-woo" proposed

Space Preservation Act of 2001 (Introduced in House)

HR 2977 IH

107th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. R. 2977

To preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the benefit of all humankind by permanently prohibiting the basing of weapons in space by the United States, and to require the President to take action to adopt and implement a world treaty banning space-based weapons.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

October 2, 2001

Mr. KUCINICH introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Science, and in addition to the Committees on Armed Services, and International Relations, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned

A BILL

To preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the benefit of all humankind by permanently prohibiting the basing of weapons in space by the United States, and to require the President to take action to adopt and implement a world treaty banning space-based weapons.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Space Preservation Act of 2001'.

SEC. 2. REAFFIRMATION OF POLICY ON THE PRESERVATION OF PEACE IN SPACE.

Congress reaffirms the policy expressed in section 102(a) of the National Aeronautics and Space Act of 1958 (42 U.S.C. 2451(a)), stating that it `is the policy of the United States that activities in space should be devoted to peaceful purposes for the benefit of all mankind.'.

SEC. 3. PERMANENT BAN ON BASING OF WEAPONS IN SPACE.

The President shall--

(1) implement a permanent ban on space-based weapons of the United States and remove from space any existing space-based weapons of the United States; and

(2) immediately order the permanent termination of research and development, testing, manufacturing, production, and deployment of all space-based weapons of the United States and their components.

SEC. 4. WORLD AGREEMENT BANNING SPACE-BASED WEAPONS.

The President shall direct the United States representatives to the United Nations and other international organizations to immediately work toward negotiating, adopting, and implementing a world agreement banning space-based weapons.

SEC. 5. REPORT.

The President shall submit to Congress not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, and every 90 days thereafter, a report on--

(1) the implementation of the permanent ban on space-based weapons required by section 3; and

(2) progress toward negotiating, adopting, and implementing the agreement described in section 4.

SEC. 6. NON SPACE-BASED WEAPONS ACTIVITIES.

Nothing in this Act may be construed as prohibiting the use of funds for--

(1) space exploration;

(2) space research and development;

(3) testing, manufacturing, or production that is not related to space-based weapons or systems; or

(4) civil, commercial, or defense activities (including communications, navigation, surveillance, reconnaissance, early warning, or remote sensing) that are not related to space-based weapons or systems.

SEC. 7. DEFINITIONS.

In this Act:

(1) The term `space' means all space extending upward from an altitude greater than 60 kilometers above the surface of the earth and any celestial body in such space.

(2)(A) The terms `weapon' and `weapons system' mean a device capable of any of the following:

(i) Damaging or destroying an object (whether in outer space, in the atmosphere, or on earth) by--

(I) firing one or more projectiles to collide with that object;

(II) detonating one or more explosive devices in close proximity to that object;

(III) directing a source of energy (including molecular or atomic energy, subatomic particle beams, electromagnetic radiation, plasma, or extremely low frequency (ELF) or ultra low frequency (ULF) energy radiation) against that object; or

(IV) any other unacknowledged or as yet undeveloped means.

(ii) Inflicting death or injury on, or damaging or destroying, a person (or the biological life, bodily health, mental health, or physical and economic well-being of a person)--

(I) through the use of any of the means described in clause (i) or subparagraph (B);

(II) through the use of land-based, sea-based, or space-based systems using radiation, electromagnetic, psychotronic, sonic, laser, or other energies directed at individual persons or targeted populations for the purpose of information war, mood management, or mind control of such persons or populations; or

(III) by expelling chemical or biological agents in the vicinity of a person.

(B) Such terms include exotic weapons systems such as--

(i) electronic, psychotronic, or information weapons;

(ii) chemtrails;

(iii) high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems;

(iv) plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons;

(v) laser weapons systems;

(vi) strategic, theater, tactical, or extraterrestrial weapons; and

(vii) chemical, biological, environmental, climate, or tectonic weapons.

(C) The term `exotic weapons systems' includes weapons designed to damage space or natural ecosystems (such as the ionosphere and upper atmosphere) or climate, weather, and tectonic systems with the purpose of inducing damage or destruction upon a target population or region on earth or in space.

Hes so looney!

:eyes:

[Luckyduck]

48. I hear ya!

I am more worried about what our Government is up to than the fact that Kucinich is trying to stop them.

[mike_c]

47. I'm curious-- which of his positions do you think makes him "unelectable...?"

Seriously. Could you explain?

[MonkeyFunk]

49. I haven't said

that his issues make him unelectable. The fact that he's a short, funny looking, high-voiced vegan with some woo-woo ideas make him unelectable.

[mike_c]

52. which "woo-woo" ideas would those be...?

The point I'm trying to make is that NO OTHER DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE has been as spot on correct as DK has been for the last six years-- about the war, about domestic policy, etc. He has consistently delivered the goods, over and over. Woo-woo ideas? Please explain which of his positions is so hairball that it lends itself to such flippant dismissal. Or was that just the sound of your knee jerking?

[MonkeyFunk]

63. chemtrails

should be enough. But he's also talked about "vibrations".

But this isn't a thread about his positions. It's about his electability.

Even the OP admits that "chemtrails" takes him off the table as a serious candidate.

Can I ask you? You do believe Kucinich is electable? Do you believe Clinton is electable?

[mike_c]

76. frankly, I don't give any consideration at all to whether a candidate...

...is "electable." I vote for the folks who best represent my interests. If everyone does that then the best candidate is automatically the most electable candidate. On the other hand, if everyone casts their votes like high-schoolers in a popularity contest then we'll always get Biff and Barb instead. We've seen where that leads, I think.

[AnOhioan]

64. You can't bash his issues....

So you bash his height and dietary choices??? Okey dokey :eyes:

[LSK]

51. no, he cant

Primary season has definately begun. This is going to be fun.

[MonkeyFunk]

53. then

we'll just have to wait and see how Mr. Kucinich does this time around.

[LSK]

54. dont have to wait

Theres things called donating money, phone banking, canvassing, volunteering.....

[originalpckelly]

55. Well, knowing that the government actually tried mind control...

I'm not inclined to think that's nuts, but knowing about condensation trails, aside from the environmental impact of the fuel, they are not weapons and it's nuts to suggest it.

That does it for me, I want someone in touch with reality, and anyone who'd let the word chemtrails be placed in a law is just wee-wacky-woohoo.

[MonkeyFunk]

59. that's all I'm sayin' (n/t)

[druidity33]

72. what are you crazy?

The US government has been working on mind control experiments since the late 50's. R&D for drug companies reaches trillions of dollars. All of their knowledge is "proprietary" and they often work on secretive government contracts... do you think maybe a US Congressperson has more insight into what the Defense industry is doing than you do? The RFID pilot programs have been a resounding success and nanotechnology in the biomedical field is growing by exponential bounds.

Da Kooch is looking forward... which is something we desperately need for our leaders to do. And just because he sees far ahead, doesn't mean he'll ignore what's right in front of him...

But i notice you still haven't given a valid reason for why he's unelectable. IMO there is only one valid reason and that's that the M$M will refuse to cover his candidacy. Which to be honest is a really shitty reason.

I do hope you rethink your opinion of him as he is by far our best candidate...

[rinsd]

82. Not just electeable but universally loved...

..if only people were not so superficial.

Reality has other ideas unfortunately.

[MoseyWalker]

14. Sometimes winning

isn't just about getting the whole enchilada. Sometimes it is about getting points out there for others to see, hear, and think about.

Think the moral of the story behind "Little Miss Sunshine"

I respect Kucinich more that just about any other politician of the past 30 years.

[mike_c]

25. and yet even dems think he's "unelectable...."

There is something seriously wrong with this picture. We will never have decent government if the best we have are "unelectable."

[dweller]

32. then you're one to appreciate the flicker of light

at the end of a dark tunnel i'd bet.

which is why i rec threads like this, seeing one consciousness experiencing insight, knowing, believing and trusting that it leads others to the light.

Better to praise the light, than to curse the darkness.

peace.
dp

[KoKo]

28. Simple Reason? MS Corporate Media doesn't like him and what

he talks about. He doesn't get "Equal Time" because MSM gives too much time to Clinton/Obama for Dems.

That's why we need the FAIRNESS DOCTRINE or something to dislodge Americans from voting for who the MS Corporate Media has their dollars stuffed in bags to give to.

If MSCorporate Media thought Kucinich was getting all the BIG BUCKS we'd see him lauded and applauded and interviewed by Imus, Matthews and Blitzer 24/7!!!!

[MonkeyFunk]

57. No Fairness Doctrine

would require Dennis Kucinich to get equal airtime to Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton.

There are literally dozens of people running for President, only some of whom you've heard of. It would be insane to require the media to give them all equal time.

[rinsd]

88. So what?

If you gave all the candidates equal time, I highly doubt Kucinich would suddenly be at the forefront.

On the issues people care about he is close enough to other Democrats that are running that other factors come into play. That includes public speaking, relationships within the party, the superficial (which doesn't disappear just because you think its superficial), campaign strategic decisions etc.

[leftofthedial]

50. he's right about everything

he's the most Democratic of all the Democrats in the race.

And he's been there for a long time.

[oldlady]

58. it takes some thinking to understand Dennis

which may be more than many Americans are willing to give before casting their votes. Guess that shows how much the vote is valued. My daughter, then 20, was a hard-core Kucinich supporter last time around. She began singing his praises early in the primary season. I love and respect my daughter, so I went looking and read all I could find on Kucinich (including his most excellent chapter in Studs Terkel's book on Hope). I found Kucinich to be too looney for my tastes. I was really turned off by the space warfare stuff and harnassing good vibes to make the world more love-filled. Then, a few months later, I realized there really were plans underway to weaponize space and then I saw the film "What the Bleep Do We Know" and within a short time I was out campaigning for the guy. Met him. Shook his hand, actually spoke with him--- I think of him as the Abe Lincoln type. Clean spoken and unashamed to discribe himself as homely. I'm focusing my mental energies on a Lincoln for our times-- we'll see how that works out, of course it'll take more power than my own, but I'll start now and wait.

The only other candidate I think I could've gotten this deep-down satisfied in supporting would have been Feingold....but, then I am from Wisconsin *s*

[BlueIris]

60. At this point, I think I'd rather vote for Dennis than Obama, Billary

or Edwards.

[malaise]

65. Denis is the best person in the race

but sadly big money still talks.

[MonkeyFunk]

67. and yet

big money can only give 2k to a candidate.


Not enough people want to give D.K. $2,000 to make him a contender.

[madokie]

66. I would vote for kucinich in a heart beat

these things you mention takes nothing from Dennis, they have only made him stronger. a few Presidents back was a polio victim and our present pResident is a f'king dumbass ignorant bastard, so who knows

[Dover]

68. Dubya can be (s)elected but not Dennis Kucinich?

If MSM gave him a chance instead of ignoring and attempting to humiliate him, then perhaps we'd see an honest exchange with Americans so they could decide on his merits without interference. But they aren't about to level the playing field. Instead they fall all over the handpicked members of the elite insiders.

Kooch has more honesty, courage and personal integrity than all of them put together. And it is those in power who aren't ready for that kind of leadership. He threatens everything THEY value.

[LWolf]

69. He's not the corporate choice, so he must be "spun" that way. n/t

[Dover]

70. Beyond the 'electability' question, what is your beef with Kucinich?

I'd like to see a serious discussion/debate about his ideas and actions, rather than all this superficial crap. You know...something substantive. Is that possible?

[sellitman]

71. He is right on almost all issues with me.

As a Zionist he is much too supportive of the Palestinians for my tastes but I am not a one issue voter and I realize that this stance alone endears him to the left here on DU. He is dead on right with every other issue.

He has my support until I can't vote for him anymore. (Or until Al Gore throws his hat in the ring)

My 0.2

[CrispyQ]

74. Open minds -- yes, that's what we need.

Kucinich reminds me of a guy I knew in high school. He came to our small town school from New York in his junior year. He had a small frame but was athletic. He had an unusual face, not unpleasant, but very different & he was quirky as hell. The local boys made fun of him, but he would retort back with cleverness & humor. He ended up being incredibly well liked but at first, the kids, the boys especially were unpleasant to him.

Harr, I haven't thought of him in years & just remembered he got me involved in the Gary Hart for Senate campaign! He was my debate partner too, & damned good at it.

I remember someone posting that when you see Dennis in person he really shines -- something comes through that is not picked up on film.

Good post & excellent point made!

[Az]

75. One of the things I have learned as an atheist

It doesn't matter if you are right. You can have every fact in the book behind you. You can have every argument sewn up tight. It just doesn't matter. If a person's feelings do not support an idea no fact in the world will convince them. Truthiness always wins.

I could give you a compelling argument that you should be able to walk through walls. Matter is mostly empty space etc. I could show you signed expert positions informing you that you can walk through walls. I can show you evidence from experiments that you can walk through walls. But when I go to actually try it I can guarantee you that you will blink just before you hit that wall.

The human mind doesn't actually work the way we think it does. We assume that as we grow older we become more rational and that young minds are irrational. But its actually the reverse of this.

See rational thought only comes into play when there is doubt, ignorance, or uncertainty about something. Teens have that in spades. They have learned the basic rules of the world from us but have not experienced anywhere near enough to be informed about things. So they rationally try stupid things. Stupid only because we have tried them ourselves and learned that they are stupid.

When we experience something it has a far greater impact on our thinking than any logical or reasoned argument. As we go through life we get bumped and bruised by it and learn from these experiences. We walk into a lot of walls and eventually come to realise that we are not going through them. When we think about this it is not reasoned thought that informs us of it. It is experience giving us a short cut to understanding. It is worth noting that our experiences do not always lead to truth as our intepretation of events can be quite biased.

So people dealing with Kuccinich are going to apply their experiences. They are going to see him on a surface level and are going to take away from that all they think they need to know. Particularly with the Republican attack dogs reinforcing that message.

You see there is too much information in play these days. Information overload leads to an inability to come to an informed descision. Which sends the mind in search of tools it can use to come to a descision. Reason and rational thought are not the only such tools. Peer pressure, supersticion, and all manner of other emotional levers are used by the mind to come to such descisions. And that is what the Repugs depend on. Due to their flooding of the media with all manner of counter info people have little to make a rational descision based on. The only thing they have left are emotional hearsay statements and observations such as his wife is taller than him.

Its unfortunate but its human nature. Learn how to manipulate people's opinion and you can control the world. Learn how to influence it and you can change the world.

[IronLionZion]

77. How about George W.'s looks and voice?

And Dennis's wife is damn hot!

Many elections are won by people who are "unelectable".

[rinsd]

87. "Many elections are won by people who are "unelectable"."

Name a Presidential election in the last 50 years (since TV) that has happened.

I guess '72 would be the closest when McGovern was nominated against party boss wishes. He then went on to get slaughtered by one of the most contemptible Presidents we ever had(and that was before Watergate)

[IronLionZion]

90. George W. Bush

Who in their right mind would support such a person? He not only is a stupid dumbass, he looks and sounds like one on TV too.

[rinsd]

91. When was he ever deemed unelectable?

He was the GOP's freaking white knight riding in to clear away the excesses of the Clinton admin.

"Who in their right mind would support such a person? He not only is a stupid dumbass, he looks and sounds like one on TV too."

The Bush from election season 2000 was "handled" alot better than he is now.

Seriously, watch the debates from 2000 and compare to 2004.

[Pacifist Patriot]

94. In 1999 I'd have said Shrub was utterly unelectable.

Looks, voice, political experience, business record, cocaine use, missing national guard files, drinking problem, fucking idiot for a father...

ETA: Some of my Republican relatives were also flabbergasted when he came out as the preferred Prince of the GOP during the primaries.

[WinkyDink]

101. How about Dubya? He lost, remember?

[Swamp Rat]

78. I voted for him during the 2004 primary

:)

[bleedingheart]

79. alll he can do is try...who knows...he might win

I prefer him over Clinton or Obama

although I would love to see Gore enter.

[Greeby]

80. I have an objection to referring to Elizabeth Kucinich as a trophy wife

:grr:

[rinsd]

84. What do you think she is gonna be called?

She's his third wife and less than half his age.

[Parche]

86. KUCINICH

I like Kucinich, he is a good cookie......

[StrictlyRockers]

89. K&R!!

[theboss]

93. I consider the Kucinich supporters to be the flip-side of the Tancredo folks

Though I fully expect Tancredo to get 10 percent of the primary vote with Republicans. Dennis will never get above 5.

[Pawel K]

96. Iran with a Nuke is a threat

don't be silly. However, they are currently 10 years from even being close to having a nuke. If this arrogant administration would just talk to them we could get this sorted out fairly quickly. We need a president that understands that and I fully agree with you that anyone that says military action against Iran at this time is on the table does not deserve to be representing this country.

[WinkyDink]

99. Perot lost, IIRC. I LOVE DK, but I also am cognizant of my society.

[we can do it]

100. Dennis Is the Right Man

[bobbolink]

102. Kucinich's flaw---he dropped poverty as an issue.

Being a one-issue candidate won't work.

That's why I no longer support him, nor will I work for his campaign again!

Nope--Edwards is much more inclusive, and fearless about working for poverty issues. It will stand him in good stead.

[lovuian]

104. I love him

Go Dennis GO

[blue cat]

109. I'm glad that he is running

because I respect him and those who support him. I have met some supporters of his at conventions, and they are incredibly loyal. Just by being there he will add so much to the debate.