I believe the reason the Dems caved in is that

[malaise]

they do not want to be blamed for another attack and there is no way McSame is a viable candidate, so with my tin foil hat, I understand. As Dean is saying the 'fear factor' won out.
That said it is a very bad day for civil liberties.

Gr.

[kestrel91316]

1. Probably. But it's sad.

[appal_jack]

24. Sad & UNCONSTITUTIONAL

It's right there in our Constitution, plain as day:

"No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed."

Article 1, Section 9. See for yourself:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.ar...

"ex post facto" = 'after the fact' = RETROACTIVE


:grr:

Now, who's got the money for a lawsuit?

-app

[Solon]

2. That is no excuse, they caved because they are more concerned with keeping their own power...

rather than preserving the civil rights of the citizenry. They have nothing but contempt for us.

[Cerridwen]

3. Excuse me, but horse shit!

It matters not what Democrats do. They will be painted with the same broad brush.

Truth, lies, it does not matter. The republican talking-points always "win."

Democrats are now being blamed for the high price at the gas station. Is that truth? Or spin?

[MadMaddie]

4. Then their vote of support cannot be seen as Nobel but Cowardly!

Nancy and Reid must go along with the other cowards.

[Individualist]

5. Collaboration by any other name is still collaboration.

[BobRossi]

6. More likely....

There is no difference between them and repukers.

[malaise]

7. If that were true

We wouldn't have had any of the hearings in either the House or the Senate and without those hearings people would not have known about all the lies and all the violations.

[comradebillyboy]

8. I think they caved because they are unprincipled cowards

they are all professional pols looking out for number one, every one of them, no exceptions

[Cleita]

9. Well both Jonathan Turley and John Dean, who are

supposed to know more about the Constitution than us more or less said that our government is fucked on both sides of the aisle. They said they are afraid of being guilty of being complicit with a rogue government so they have to run out the clock to have enough time to go slinking back under their safe rocks. Not their words. Mine. But that's what they said more or less in carefully couched terms.

[malaise]

19. And they are both correct

but Dean did raise the fear factor.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. IT is called CYA... that is what they did since they are

part of the problem,

the leadership WAS briefed on the torture and all that and they didn't object

They are liable

It is CYA

[Robbien]

11. Dems are not caving. They want to do what they are doing

They love it when people say they are caving. Caving means that they have their hearts in the right place but for very pressing reasons they are going against their better nature and caving.

These politicians do NOT have their hearts in the right places. They want these bad bills.

Dems are not caving. They are legislating exactly the way they intend to legislate.


This is the way they WANT it.

[EFerrari]

12. There's always a reason not to do the right thing. n/t

[riverdeep]

13. They caved because they want to get re-elected, period.

It's a crass calculation of noting how many morons lie in your district who can be told untruths about a given congressperson's 'unpatriotism', and how many will believe it. West Virginia showed us even Dems still thought Obama was a Muslim, even when presented with proof he was not. The more of these genetic embarrassments lie in the district, the more the odds increase of the Dem not getting re-elected.

There was a way to get past this, a show of unity and force. Educating the public constantly about why you're voting this way, but that takes initiative and effort and the wherewithal to take a risk, and the those particular Dems are cowards.

[XOKCowboy]

14. Oh I'll remember this when Ed Perlmutter comes up for re-election...

and I'll be telling him about it in the meantime.

[NuttyFluffers]

15. if so then they need something new to fear...

perhaps losing their reliable and taken for granted constituency might be it.

[crickets]

16. Agreed.

[malaise]

18. No doubt a clean up is required n/t

[crickets]

17. If they can't be bothered to vote in my interests

never mind keep that oath about defending the Constitution, I hardly see why I should be bothered to vote for them.

they do not want to be blamed for another attack

If there's a credible threat of that, they should say so. We have that color coded alert crap for a reason, ya know. Also, we all know now they were *already* pulling this wiretapping stunt before September 2001. Wait, we still got attacked, right? I hardly think the government's lack of legal cover to listen in on the phone calls of millions of people in the US had anything to do with NORAD's stunning lack of response. If multiple warnings from intel offices of various nations around the world along with a certain "historical document" were not enough to let little bushiepants know we were in danger, that's no reason that, seven years later, I have to let someone listen in on my Dad calling me to ask if I bothered to mow my lawn lately.

Just sayin'.

[Canuckistanian]

20. There was NO WAY Dems could be blamed for another attack

The FISA system WASN'T BROKEN. It worked JUST FINE the way it was.

There were NEVER any instances where foreign calls COULDN'T be monitored. NONE.

And the FISA court was known as one of the most lenient in granting warrants. In it's ENTIRE HISTORY, it had only turned down a handful of warrants out of thousands of requests.

And furthermore, the government DIDN'T HAVE TO WAIT for a warrant because warrant requests could be issued retroactively.

The only thing this bill did was REMOVE the mandatory warrant review process, and place all power in the EXECUTIVE BRANCH..

[Lydia Leftcoast]

21. That was my theory about why they caved on the IWR, too

They were afraid that if they didn't vote for it, then the Bushies would "find" WMDs or there would be a false flag attack on the U.S.

[spanone]

22. i don't buy that. they are complicit in the destruction of our democracy.

it weakens them politically

i plan to re-register as an independent and the democrats can have my vote if they earn it.

[pscot]

23. We have a Yellow Dog Congress

Ya get what ya vote for.