I must confess to a lack of enthusiasm over Libby's conviction. Talk me out of it.

[WilliamPitt]

Libby, in my humble o, is damned lucky.

The acts he was convicted of - perjury, false statements and obstruction - were crimes in themselves, to be sure, but were crimes committed to cover up, obscure and bury the truly serious crimes that got this ball rolling in the first place. In short, he was convicted for the cover-up of the actual crimes.

In a nation that prides itself on living by the rule of law, Mr. Libby should have been tried for treason. Whether he could have been convicted of this is an open question, one dependent upon the veracity of witnesses and the availability of evidence. But "treason" is the operative word, and the lies he has been convicted of telling were told in the first place to avoid that potent charge.

Mr. Libby - along with Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Doug Feith, Stephen Hadley, Condi Rice and a slew of others - was an instrumental member of the cadre that sold the American people an outrageous raft of lies regarding the presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Mr. Libby - acting on behalf of Dick Cheney - went down to CIA headquarters at the behest of his boss to lean on intelligence analysts in order to pry "forward-leaning intelligence" out of them regarding Iraq.

Mr. Libby - again on behalf of Dick Cheney - was central to the exposure of deep-cover CIA agent Valerie Plame. This exposure was undertaken to silence Ambassador Joseph Wilson, whose public statements regarding the fraudulent "uranium from Niger" administration claims threatened to undermine the whole latticework of lies that buttressed the administration's push for an invasion of Iraq.

Valerie Plame was a NOC (non-official cover) agent whose job was to track any person, nation or group that would give weapons of mass destruction to terrorists. The vital intelligence network she built to do this important job is now destroyed, and we are less safe for it.

The firm Plame worked out of as part of her cover - Brewster Jennings & Associates - is likewise destroyed now, which means any other deep-cover agent working from there has also had their clandestine status threatened and their intelligence networks disrupted, and we are less safe for that, as well.

The lies promulgated by Mr. Libby led directly to the deaths of 3,185 American soldiers and the wounding of between 47,000 and 53,000 more soldiers. This amounts to between a third and a fourth of the entire active combat force of the United States military.

The lies promulgated by Mr. Libby led directly to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians, the maiming of thousands more, and the creation of a sectarian civil war in that nation whose effects will be generational in impact.

He's lucky. It should have been a trial for treason, with the real possibility of a death sentence hanging over him like the sword of Damocles.

There will be an appeal, of course, and the potential for a presidential pardon - recall the slew of convicted Iran-Contra characters pardoned by Bush Sr. way back when - remains ever-present, leaving open the possibility that Libby will serve no time at all.

I don't know if the investigation will continue. If it does, the prosecutors will dangle a deal in front of Libby - assist us and avoid federal prison time - which makes me think a pardon is in the offing. A pardon guts the only leverage they have on him; they'd be dumb not to do it.

The real crimes continue un-prosecuted. The real criminals walk and breathe free.

I'm trying to be pleased with this, with the hope that this is another kick to the superstructure of lies and profiteering. But the media is spinning it away, mostly because they all got convicted today right along with Scooter, and want no part of any self-analysis or critique. Hell, I heard Buchanan today say (to paraphrase), "Congress won't take this up, because they won't want that 2002 vote analyzed, which happened during a Democratic Congress!"

So much bullshit in one sentence.

So...talk me out of it. The word that best describes my state is "nonplussed." Am I just a curmudgeon?

[Matariki]

1. Sadly, Justice has been scant these past 6 years.

we're like starving people getting excited over some bird seed.

on edit: sorry, that wasn't a very good attempt at 'talking you out of it' :-(

[monmouth]

2. Actually, I'm pretty much with you. My hope is that Libby will take voice

lessons and start to sing. Sentencing day is May 15th. Will he go to jail? Will he be pardoned? If so, when? I doubt if there will be an appeal, he was convicted on 4 of 5 charges and I think that's locked in. Should be interesting, but too many questions. Time will tell.

[billybob537]

3. Cheer up Will

This is another shovel of dirt on their grave, All small accomplishments make a contribution.
LIKE DRIVEING THE PANTS ON FIRE MOBILE . that made people smile
but it made them think too. Now smile it's your turn to buy the next round.

[razors edge]

4. I think most actually believe

this is the closest thing, if not equivalent to a treason verdict. I do.

Most here don't support the DP so that option is no real motivation to have the treason charge upheld. I don't believe he should get the DP for his actions, but his bosses on the other hand.

[blues90]

5. I too feel he got off far to easy

He may get pardoned since bush will listen to no one . He may walk away as Ken Lay did , I am still not convinced Lay is dead , plastic surgery can work wonders .

Libby seems to be a key that is now broken off in the lock .

[Old and In the Way]

6. I find myself pretty subdued with this "victory" as well.

Seems like a lot of sizzle, but no real steak.

I just posted this moments before you start this post-

"The war-profiteering coward was trying to hide his planning of the Iraq War (Secret Energy Task Force meetings) and his probable interest in taking down down the Brewster-Jenning's CIA network tasked with following the movement of WMD in the ME. Scooter will get a pardon...I have no doubts that the deal was 'take one for the team, appeal, and we'll pardon you on the way out'. I wish I could be excited that Fitzgerald's prosecution accomplished something, but I think it was a theatrical performance designed to minimize the real damage that the Plame case could have wrought on this administration. So Cheney's probably not too broken up about this...could have been a hellavu lot worse for him."

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

7. I Was Called A Clown For Saying Similar Things In Another Post

But since you're Will Pitt, I'm sure everyone will support you.

For what it's worth, I share your sentiments. While there was victory today, I'm not sure what ends will really be served. The most egregious crimes will go unpunished, and the true criminals are getting away scott free. Libby will be pardoned, and that will be that.

But at least the jury did it's job, and that's a "glimmer" of hope for the country I suppose.

[WilliamPitt]

26. I hope you alerted on that

:(

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

76. Libby is due to be sentenced in June - his memory could improve

He's looking at ten years in Federal prison and a million dollars in fines.

What pisses me off is that he isn't waiting in a cell to be sentenced, but he's a white male and an upper class criminal. The rules are different for them.

[Armstead]

8. Drip, drip,drip....

Not a major event in itself, but it adds to the drip,drip,drip.

[gratuitous]

9. Titanic's been sailing into the iceberg field for six years now

And you want it to turn on the dime of one prosecution for one teeny, tiny crime out of the thousands that have been committed?

You may be nonplussed; I can't control your emotions. But if you are disappointed or deflated, I think that's mostly a by-product of unrealistic expectations.

[Disturbed]

12. A tiny step in the direction of Justice.

The Busholini Regime are guilty of many crimes. Unless all of the Busholini Criminals are tried and convicted of their crimes Justice will not have been done.

[WilliamPitt]

30. "a by-product of unrealistic expectations"

I'm not sure about that, as I had none. I wouldn't have been surprised if he'd been acquitted.

If you look back at my writings on this over the last year, I've said largely the same thing over the course. Perjury? I just can't get excited over it. Happy, to be sure, and hopeful for further progress. But I see this as busting someone for stealing an apple after he burned down the orchard.

[demobabe]

10. No Will... you're just looking at the beer glass being half empty

Go over to the bartender, and get him to top it off, and I'll buy you a couple rounds. Throw in a shot of tequila for good measure.

This is the first bit of justice we've seen - it's the beginning. Had there been no conviction, then you would have had every right to mope. Snap outta it, dude!

:toast:

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

11. I agree with this analysis. The real loss was when Rove didn't get indicted. As you said, the

main benefit that could come out of this is if Libby could be shopped a deal to save himself some jail time, but a pardon will put an end to that.

To the 30 percenters, a Bush pardon of Libby will cost Bush and the Republicans no political capital. Not sure how much purchase it would have with the rest of America. I'd hope it would have some impact, but I'm pessimistic too.

[warrior1]

13. The taint of the conviction

hangs on the republican's heads. Pardon or not they are seriously damaged. I feel like you, this is a hollow victory, yet just, because of the damage on so many.

[porphyrian]

14. It's hard to watch a slow-motion train wreck, especially when it takes six years. - n/t

[Joe for Clark]

15. One of the few times I really agree with Chris Matthews.

This was a trial about the war. It really was.

America moves very slowly sometimes - I think that is a good thing most of the time.

There were great lies sold to us about this whole war - and America is really waking up.

We were called a sleeping giant once - I think that is still right.

However, when we move, we move totally. SO there was a verdict today - you really think that is the only step???

Joe

[The Straight Story]

16. The spin I am hearing - "There was no crime relating to plame" and this was simple perjury, nothing

else to see, move along.

If we don't see any more indictments it will probably die like that. Scooter lied, so did Clinton, all politicians are crooked, ho hum to the avg joe.

(been listening to our local clear channel station today)

[Old and In the Way]

21. If there was no crime...why the perjury?

They have a hard time explaining that question.

[The Straight Story]

22. guessing here:

he didn't really commit a crime, he simply misspoke or forgot :)

They spin things into a pretzel, and then someone chokes on it.

[cynatnite]

17. One of the few times I agree with Buchanan, Will...

Those who voted for the war and cheered it on are complicit. All out investigations will expose how little effort they put into doing their jobs. They don't want the public to see that.

I'm glad to see it, Will, but it's only a small bread crumb compared to all those who are responsible for putting this country and our military in such a horrific position.

[KoKo]

18. I can't...but you are a downer about this ready to Jump on First Body Cart!

I'll hold back awhile. I think what you say is probably true...but your "gloomy" first glance..is too much for me to take right now.

[proud patriot]

19. well the knuckle draggers are unhappy about it

:shrug:

[Annces]

20. I think it should be appreciated in its own right

for the successful prosecution by Fitzgerald of an obstruction of justice. Why attach the whole mess of Iraq to it. Greed has got us into Iraq. The whole administration is badly tainted. And I think anyone who honestly thinks for themselves can see that. Fitzgerald won the case and did his part. Also it was a certain amount of incredible luck that this specific prosecutor got the case, and that it was one phone call placed to Russert which opened the lies out.

As for the bigger picture, every stone thrown has its ripple effects. And a dam can break eventually by taking a small piece out of the wall.

[kath]

23. {pedant mode} Re: use of the word "nonplussed":

To quote from "The Princess Bride", "I do not think it means what you think it means".

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19991221

<end of English lesson>

BTW - I agree with you. To have these Bushco bastids get away with treason will be absolutely disgusting, but that may well be what happens.

[foo_bar]

24. "nonplussed" doesn't mean unenthused

Although the confusion is understandable:
http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19991221

(edit: someone beat me to the same link by 4 mins. Vaya con Google!)

[johnaries]

25. Personally, I'm pissed at Fitz.

He said this closes it. When the testimony in this case clearrly shows there was a much higher crime that had been committed by people higher up. As the juror said, "where is Rove, where are tese other guys?"

I can't help but wonder if Fitz was in on it, and was told to make Libby the sacrificial lamb and to make it look good.

Until the crime of the leak itself has been addressed, justice has NOT been served.

As much as I tried to keep the faith before, I was wrong. There's no Santa Claus, and there's no such thing as Fitzmas.

[demobabe]

41. He says it's closed "barring any new evidence"

Wilson is headed to court in a civil suit and plans to subpeona lots of stuff... there is PLENTY of opportunity for new evidence to surface.

Fitz is methodical. He will keep digging until it reaches a logical conclusion.

[mitchum]

27. On the bright side, maybe he'll develop "prison cancer" like Jack Ruby

[symbolman]

28. Why so glum?

Not only was Rove Indicted, according to your sources, but now Libby has been Convicted, it's a TWO FER, isn't it? :)

[WilliamPitt]

31. I'm going to wait two business days before replying with substance.

:P

*ducking, fleeing*

[Midlodemocrat]

32. .

:rofl:

:thumbsup:

[symbolman]

33. I think a couple of

Business Beers are in order :)

Beers of substance of course..

[WilliamPitt]

35. Hercules Double IPA should do the trick.

:toast:

[Generator]

29. You conclusion has been obvious some time

if you step out of the delusional "Cheney's next!" (though we know if there was any justice he would be) halls of DU. It's a blip on the record of an administration whose crimes of sheer negligence from 9/11 to the endless war crimes of Iraq (with a natural national disaster thrown in for good measure), greed, avarice and oh yeah the great LOVE they've shown the military men and women are becoming rather well known.

They are criminals and as much they don't care about their reputation. They have no shame. And those without shame cannot be shamed into ever doing the right thing for those without a conscience wouldn't know what that was if it came and plucked their eyeballs out. (Greek tragedy is coming to me!) I watched FOX news for four putrid minutes today and yes, oh fucking yes, they had the temerity to bring up Clinton's "lies". As if moral equivalency was there for everything forever and ever Amen, Clinton told a lie therefore all lies are okay.

And their base are criminal lovers, so yes, it doesn't matter a whit to them. IN FACT I hear they are still arguing that Ms. Plame wasn't covert.

I belong to the reality based community. It's all that's keeping my sanity. There is no easy way out of this one, America. Even Patrick Fitzgerald can't save us.

[tavalon]

64. Well, good to see

I'm not missing anything in my multiyear boycott of CNN. What tools they are!

[KoKo]

34. Actually...after watching KO's Show with Joe Wilson and John Dean

I have to conclude that what you thought was correct. They all looked like they were at a Funeral instead of a Celebration.

What do they know that we don't? Why did Blitzer feel he could jab and jeer at Howard Dean right after the Libby Conviction?

Why on a night which should be a huge Democratic Celebration does it seem like a Funeral.

Don't know..

Jason Leopold was probabaly correct in some of his reporting about Rove. Perhaps a deal was cut with Rove...and the Media knows but we don't. And, the Media knows nothing more will come out of this than today's conviction. The MS Corporate Media "ALWAYS KNOWS IT ALL." What they know is ugly...for us.

:tinfoilhat: MAYBE...My gut tells me something bad is going on that our day of Celebration is seeming very "hollow." Don't know...doesn't feel good.

[NotGivingUp]

36. All this and he'll serve 2 or 3 years..disgusting! He should've been up for treason!!!

[MilesColtrane]

54. He will be pardoned.

Libby's lawyers made a deal for a pardon in exchange for not calling Cheney to the stand.

Bush isn't up for reelection. He couldn't care less what his poll numbers are.
Poppy pardoned 6 Iran-Contra criminals. Like father like son.

Hell, Libby may even get to come back and work as Deputy National Security Advisor in the Jeb Bush Administration. (ala Elliot Abrams)

[NotGivingUp]

72. i might change my name to FeelLikeGivingUp.

[mmonk]

37. I agree. I'm not really satisfied because true justice

will not be served. I do not feel good about anything and I have a feeling I will spend the rest of my life with no more trust in the American system.

[Rex]

38. Everyday the BFEE stays in charge, is another day of gross injustice.

We will never find out what happen in 2001 or anything else with the BFEE in charge.

[Geek_Girl]

39. Congress, if they have the Balls, could take action

and use this to investigate who leaked Plame and why. This could potentially unravel the entire administration and lead to impeachments and maybe even convictions. But Congress has got to act. Otherwise your probably right, he'll be pardoned. If dems don't act we're screwed.
The ball is in our court. Think of it like a chink in the dragons armor.

[roamer65]

40. DO NOT despair. Fitz saying "case closed" was a signal...

to the House Judiciary committee that they now can get involved in investigating Cheney's role. The House Judiciary committee was reluctant to get involved in a pending case. Now the playing field is wide open for John Conyers to get involved. We need to contact Conyers office and encourage them to investigate Cheney.

[tavalon]

66. That is the most hopeful thing I've heard

I hope that is what is up.

[AZBlue]

42. Sorry, I'm no help - I'm right there with you.

I think this will be the end of it - and quite a let-down it is.

[foo_bar]

43. it could be post-Fitzmas "blues"

Now that the wrappers are off, people expecting a pony under the tree are experiencing some letdown. The trail of pony shit should be reward enough, since it potentially leads to a pony.

[AnnInLa]

44. Think of the "Legacy"----Think of the history books

While we may be taking our small victories where we can get them instead of scoring big-time, think of 30 years from now. When you hear the words, "The Nixon Whitehouse," what images & memories come to mind? That's the way it will be with "The Bush Whitehouse." The Bush WH will conjure up memories of lies, unnecessary war, paranoia, suppression of liberties, ala the Nixon WH. Along with the Nixon administration, the Bush administration will be the most reviled administrations in history. On TV and radio (and who knows what kind of new technological gizmo), pudits will be discussing the mistakes of this administration, and comparing whatever administration is in charge to the bush administration, just as we compare to the Nixon one.

I always wanted to ask Poppy & Big-Barb Bush, "How does it feel to have a son who is one of the most reviled, hated men in the world?" I want to watch them cry.

I think that the legacy of this admin will be same as the Nixon legacy, even more so.....I take MUCH solace in that.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

45. Can you enjoy and be inspired by a "drop" of justice rather than full justice?

Can you accept we do not live in a country where equal application of the laws is REAL,...yet?

Personally, I had a joyful rouse that Libby was convicted on all greater charges knowing the Wilsons' suit would be solidified.

Was Libby's conviction full justice applied to all the humanitarian and constitutional and international crimes by this administration and its constituent profiteers? No. If that's what you're waiting for,...you'll likely die waiting for that unless there is a sincere and willful revolution against the current political system.

Revolution ain't gonna' happen until the neocons get what they want: a collapse of our own government. I imagine those people are succeeding on that path,...and they know it.

So, you're instincts aren't off,...but, you're "hope" is clearly disabled. Don't blame you for that, at all. You're just weary knowing the war is not over.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

46. That's what happens when you shave your head in winter.

Your brain freezes.

:rofl:

Take what you can get and run with it, man. The rest will take care of itself.

[WilliamPitt]

61. "The rest will take care of itself."

That has not been my experience over the last several years. Shaved head or otherwise. If "The rest will take care of itself" is a functional operating system in your neighborhood, PM me your ZIP code, because I'm moving to where you live. It don't fly like that anywhere else.

[DemReadingDU]

63. I think Fitz is taking a short break

Remember Fitzgerald always says he does not discuss ongoing investigations. With the info coming out at Libby's trial implicating Cheney, I like to think that Fitz is not done yet. :)

[progressoid]

81. His public statement says otherwise...

"I do not expect to file any further charges, the investigation was inactive prior to the trial," the Chicago-based federal attorney who led the prosecution said. "We're all going back to our day jobs."

Seems pretty clear to me. Especially from a guy that has been generally tight-lipped about this.

[windbreeze]

88. Wow...he actually said that???? damn

what a letdown that is....here I hoped that this would be the door opening onto bigger and better investigations of bigger and better fish...damn again....ruined my day...should have been TREASON charges...outing an undercover agent IS treason in my book...how many people died because of this bullshit...disgusted, disgusted, disgusted...damn...
wb

[Laura PourMeADrink]

47. It's a piece of the puzzle. Chipping away at the truth. this

part is known, now we move on to the next piece to chip away at --- The Niger Forgery !

Published on Tuesday, March 6, 2007 by CommonDreams.org
Libbygate: Now Let's Get to the Real Story
by Dave Lindorff

So Scooter Libby has taken the fall.

Three and a half years and a long bloody war after he and a gang of war-mongers in the White House and Blair House, including President Bush and Vice President Cheney, set out to undermine and trash the reputation of an Iraq war critic, former ambassador Joseph Wilson, Libby has been found guilty of perjury, lying to the FBI and obstruction of justice by a Washington jury.

Now maybe special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald and what passes for journalists in the mainstream media can get down to the real business of finding out just why the entire White House smear operation was unleashed upon a minor state department official and why they went so far as to violate federal law and expose his CIA-operative wife, Valerie Plame, in the process destroying her entire network of contacts for monitoring the spread of nuclear weapons in the Middle East.

Because that's what this whole Libby story is really about.

The whole focus of the media in this case has been on the narrow, inside-the-Beltway question of who leaked information about Plame to the media.

Entirely forgotten or ignored has been what this leak was all about to begin with.

For that, you have to go back and look at what Wilson did in the first place that so enraged or frightened the Vice President and the President.

And that was to go to Niger, one of the poorest nations in Africa, to prove conclusively that there was no truth to a set of forged notes on the letterhead of the Niger embassy in Rome, purporting to be receipts for 400 tons of Niger uranium ore allegedly being sought by Iraq's Saddam Hussein.

Wilson knew those documents were cheap forgeries--the name of the mines official on the papers was someone who hadn't been in office for years--but he went to Niger anyhow, just to make doubly certain that no such purchase attempt had been made.

None had.

So the real question then is, who is behind those forged documents?

There is an interesting story here--and an important mystery to be solved.

As it happens, way back in early 2001 there was a pair of burglaries at the Niger Embassy in Rome and at the home of the Niger ambassador. Police investigating the crimes found that the only things stolen were official stationary and some official stamps, used to make documents official. A cleaning lady and a former member of Italy's intelligence service were arrested for the crimes. They were odd burglaries to be sure, since there is precious little one could use, or sell, such documents for, given the country involved. I mean, it might make sense to steal official stationary from the French Embassy in Rome, which a thief might use to finagle a pass to the Cannes Festival. But Niger?

Jump to October 2001. A few weeks after the 9-11 attacks, Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, accompanied by his ministers of defense and intelligence, made a visit to the White House. There he reportedly handed over the forged Niger documents (they were on Niger government stationary, and had Niger government stamps!), which appeared to be receipts for uranium ore, made out to Saddam Hussein. Now forget the matter of why either Hussein or Niger's government would want paper receipts for such an illegal transaction, and forget the matter of how Hussein would have transported 400 tons of yellow dust across the Sahara to his country without somebody noticing. The simple fact is that Bush's own intelligence experts at the CIA and State Department promptly spotted the forgeries, and they were dumped.

We know this because we know, from the likes of onetime National Security Council counterterrorism head Richard Clarke and former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill, that Bush was pushing for war with Iran almost as soon as he finished reading My Pet Goat following the attack on the Twin Towers. Surely if the White House had even thought those Niger documents might be legit, they would have leaked or broadcast them all over creation.

They didn't. The documents were deep-sixed, and mentioned to no one.

But according to some dedicated investigative reporters at the respected Italian newspaper La Repubblica, they resurfaced before long at a very suspicious meeting. This meeting occurred in December 2001 in Rome, and included Michael Ledeen, an associate of Defense Department Undersecretary for Policy Douglas Feith and a key figure in the White House's war-propaganda program, Larry Franklin, a top Defense Intelligence Agency Middle East analyst who later pleaded guilty to passing classified information to two employees of the America Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), convicted Iraqi bank swindler Ahmed Chalabi, then head of the CIA-created Iraqi National Congress, and Harold Rhode of the sinister Defense Department Office of Special Plans, that office set up by the White House and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld under Feith's direction to manufacture "evidence" to justify a war on Iraq. Also at this peculiar meeting were the heads of the Italian Defense Department and of SISMI, the Italian intelligence agency.

According to La Repubblica, it was at that meeting that a plan was hatched to resurrect the forged Niger documents, and to give them credibility by recycling them through British intelligence.

And that is what Bush was referring to when, in his 2003 State of the Union address, he famously frightened a nation by declaring, "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

Bush lyingly implied that this was new information, when in fact he knew--had to know--that the "evidence" in British hands was the same set of documents he had been offered by Berlusconi almost a year and a half earlier, which had been declared to be bogus.

No mainstream American media organization has pursued this story, or even published the details as reported in Italy. Most Americans, consequently, don't even know what a grand lie Bush and the White House perpetrated upon them and the Congress in order to win approval for an attack on Iraq.

Perhaps now that Libby has gone down for his part in this grotesque crime, some editor will ask the obvious question: Why did the White House and the Office of Vice President go to such extraordinary lengths to attack Wilson and his wife? And more importantly, who was behind those Niger embassy burglaries and the forged uranium ore sale documents? And what was OSP doing meeting in Rome in December 2001 with the head of Italian intelligence?

Make no mistake: this whole story has the odor of a "black op" designed to target the American people.

If so it was an act of high treason.

It is not just Libby who should go to jail for this crime. It is the president and vice president.

At this point, whether or not the mainstream media decide to do their job, one has to hope that Fitzgerald, with Libby in the bag, will take the next step and hold the prospect of a lengthy prison sentence recommendation over the convict¹s head in order to try and win from him a promise of cooperation with the prosecution.

Because Libby knows who was behind all of this.

And that¹s the real story that needs to be told.

DAVE LINDORFF is an investigative reporter based in Philadelphia. His work is available at www.thiscantbehappening.net and at www.counterpunch.org His latest book, co-authored by Barbara Olshansky, is "The Case for Impeachment: The Legal Argument for Removing President George W. Bush from Office" (St. Martin's Press, 2006).

[KoKo]

73. Who forged the Niger Documents? Good Point and Josh Marshall & Laura Rozen were

on the trail when Dan Rather was fired and 60 Minutes Bradley had to shelf the story. The piece is somewhere in Salon's archives where Bradley sent it.

Who will dig further into who forged those documents? The FBI (according to Josh and Linda) wouldn't even interview one suspect that they brought into the US when they alerted the agents.

There's more...and if Fitz can't go after it then Congress needs to. But, they are very busy these days.. :-(

[Laura PourMeADrink]

85. you are so right !! You know, I would love to know the

statistical probability of (1) the proof of yellowcake forged, (2) it just happens to get in the SOTU speech, by mistake, (3) the Nigerian letterhead being stolen, (4) Cheney licking his chops trying to find any shred of evidence ALL HAPPENING AT ONCE.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

86. p.s. THEY are behind this 1000%

[nam78_two]

48. Yeah I feel the same way

Libby is just the fall guy for this one, the way George Tenet was at another time...and so on....

I don't feel particularly excited :-/

[Nikki Stone1]

49. Libby was the fall guy, and they made sure he didn't fall too far

Everything has been done to protect these criminals in the White House.

On the other hand. there could have been no conviction at all so I'll take what I can get.

[Mick Knox]

50. Seems like they are getting off real easy

Some sacrificial lamb who wont do a day.

Wow, hugh!! victory.

Wake me up if we ever start an impeachment or anything worthwhile against the real criminals.

Thanks.

[wiggs]

51. Small but important step. Cheer up, but don't be satisfied. This should be just the

beginning. Congress, or the states, need to take up the issues of abuse of power, lying to congress, NSA, DSM, Plame, etc. Libby will get pardoned for sure and I hope everyone knows it, so that others (media and congress and bloggers) will not rest on this verdict. You have a role in pushing the real issues forward.

It's been clear for some time that we're in a deep, deep hole. Libby verdict doesn't get us all the way out, by a long shot, but it does give me hope that we're not sinking lower each day. Not today, anyway.

Man, even though small in comparison to WH misdeeds, this was a hard, hard fought victory. It was not easy. It took courage. It took brilliance and resolute determination. We have far too few heroes and I vote for not depriving this one of significance.

I'm impressed but far from satisfied.

[Missy Vixen]

52. I guess I wonder what you were expecting

I've been reading about and studying the CIA leak case for the past two years, both on H2OMan's excellent threads and at Firedoglake.

It became very evident, very quickly, that charging any of the original crimes would be a national security nightmare, getting whatever Patrick Fitzgerald filed thrown out of court as quickly as it was filed. Scooter Libby obstructed the investigation PJF and Special Agent Eckenrode spent the past two years working on. If that's what he could charge, that's what he charged. I might also mention that this is the highest ranking member of our government convicted of a crime in the past 130 years.

When this all started, I read a story in one of the Chicago papers that PJF gathered his staff and said to them, "No matter what we do here, we're screwed. We're damned if we do, and damned if we don't." He drew the narrowest indictments he could, came away with a conviction, and if we're really lucky, Scooter will decide he doesn't quite want to watch his kids grow up through the bars of a cell and finally, finally cooperate.

Was it a waste of time for Patrick Fitzgerald to go to court? Uh, no. Everyone knows who was really behind all of it now -- what happened to Valerie Plame, the fact that they were stupid enough to go after Ambassador Wilson as well. Most of all, it points to the very truth that to go any further will take a Congressional investigation. If Bush and Cheney were truly behind this -- and I believe that they were; I don't think PJF was just clicking his teeth or listening to himself talk during both opening argument and his summation -- to follow this investigation to the end will bring a Constitutional crisis.

If you want justice, CALL CONGRESS, specifically John Conyers. Patrick Fitzgerald's comments on the courthouse steps this morning made it clear he'd be more than happy to hand over the evidence he has to aid in their investigation. As I've written earlier tonight on another thread, does he have to get on his knees and beg?

If there's anything I hope for now, it's that Congress will pick up the mantle. I also hope that Ambassador and Mrs. Wilson will get to the discovery phase of their suit. To steal Josh Marshall's saying of a few years ago, I think this would rock the tectonic plates, already shaky from Libby's trial, under Washington. Permanently.

Julie

[tavalon]

68. Now that's a novel idea

Call Congress! Why didn't I think of that!

You surely don't think many of us here, Will Pitt included, haven't been doing that. Alot.

I'm not saying we shouldn't continue. But damn, it's really demoralizing because Congress continues to not do it's job. They know what the expectation is but with each passing day, they fail again to do what we have demanded. What the hell will it take?

[leftofthedial]

53. can't do it.

sorry.

I think if this is the end of the matter, the repuke/neocon/bush cabal won bigtime.

[Amused Musings]

55. I don't understand why Fitzgerald did not

bring charges in the crime that actually occured. Why was there not enough evidence to bring someone to trial over the actual outing? It seemed to me that everyone was talking as if the crime did in fact occur and maybe I was reading too much into it, but thats what I thought too. If Libby committed perjury, shouldn't someone hang (figuratively) for the crime he lied about? Seriously, what the hell?

[PhilipShore]

56. I agree the Libby verdict is a win-win for Republicans...

unless Congress starts an impeachment investigation -- and they won't because, it opens a whole can of worms for Democrats and Republicans.

[babylonsister]

57. Try this on:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=358284&mesg_id=358284

[MilesColtrane]

58. My response in another thread....

There's a lot of irrational exuberance here.


Cheney's plan worked perfectly.

Libby's lies blocked Fitzgerald from prosecuting for the leak. Fitz said as much before the trial. He has also said the investigation is now over.

In the end, treasonous criminals still squat in our White House, and their pigeon will be pardoned to write a book about his "persecution". The subsequent talk show, book tour, and speaking circuit will make it a bestseller and I. Lewis will more than recoup his legal fees and fine.

Libby will probably show up down the road in Jeb Bush's administration, just like pardoned Iran-Contra criminal Elliot Abrams.

For these guys, lying to Congress or to a prosecutor is like a badge of honor. They've proven their family loyalty so they'll reap the rewards the next time a Republican president gets into power.

[stellanoir]

59. we dare not call it treason . . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x358370

I'm with ya Will.

K & R'd

[K8-EEE]

60. Bush Is "Saddened" Cheney Is "Disappointed"

Rejoice!! That's all good....they're all FREAKING OUT if the Faux Nooze Ministry pundits are any indication. THIS IS GOOD!!!

[w4rma]

62. Just remember that the real criminals aren't even in the White House. he ones in the WH are puppets

for a few almost unbelievably wealthy people who "like their privacy"--even though they hold a great deal of power, more than they should, over the rest of our lives. They are the criminals that will still be in power when the current Republican leadership is long gone.

They should be the real target. And they hide well enough, and behind enough layers of facades and lies and money and PR people that it is extremely tough to get anywhere near them politically or through business.

[many a good man]

65. I feel like I'm in a fancy restaurant

After perusing the mouth-watering menu I place my order with gleeful anticipation. Then the waiter disappears for hours. He finally arrives with the appetizer -- and it was delicious. He remarks that he's not sure if the entre I ordered is still available. And now he's disappeared again.

[librarycard]

67. There's not much else to be enthusiastic about

We lost 9 soldiers just the other day. We're in a hell of a mess.

[kikiek]

69. I am not satisfied with the result yet, but I remember Bush addressing

the press one day. Standing there so cocky and sure. He didn't think Fitzgerald would ever get this far with the investigation. The quote from him that day has reverberated in my head since.
"I mean this is a town full of people who like to leak information," Bush said. "And I don't know if we're going to find out the senior administration official. Now, this is a large administration, and there's lots of senior officials. I don't have any idea.”
He tone was taunting as it implied I've got a secret and you won't be able to find it out. We have a protected inner circle that can't be exposed. THat Fitzgerald was able to weaken and finally force them to sacrifice one of their own is nothing short of miraculous in my opinion. Fitz deserves a medal. There's another direct hit to the "legacy" of Bush, and things could get a lot worse. He WILL be known as the worst president ever, and his administration as worse than Nixon. Give him some credit for that. It was no easy feat.

[izzybeans]

70. I'm with you Will. "The real criminals walk and breathe free." ..."nonplussed" indeed.

[TheBaldyMan]

71. Bush won't be able to pardon him if he is impeached.

Just a thought, one that cheers you a little I hope.

[deutsey]

74. If you're expecting genuine justice for the crimes of the Bush junta

You're going to be profoundly disappointed.

It isn't going to happen. If you know American political history from at least Nixon (it goes back further, of course), you should know that. The Watergate criminals are free and living quite comfortably (some are even back in power or have lucrative media careers). The Iran-Contra criminals are the same. And these scandals are just the big political crimes that we know about.

The only things they learned from these crimes is how to cover them up better.

I'm glad that Libby was convicted of four of the five charges, but I'm afraid he's the fall guy and that's probably as far as it will go.

Sorry. :evilfrown:

[Carni]

75. The mark on his so called legacy is better than nothing

But I tend to agree with you--I am not all that stoked about the whole thing.

These people all deserve punishment and I don't mean a trial, a pardon and book deals.

[Coexist]

77. Valerie Wilson wept with joy when she heard the verdict

if you don't get chills, you are numb from the cold, sir.

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/03/06/wilson-interview/

[WilliamPitt]

79. Fair enough.

Thanks. I needed that.

[Forkboy]

78. here's to a fellow curmudgeon!

:toast:

[smoogatz]

80. The fat lady ain't sung yet, Pitt.

I'm just saying--once Libby's sentenced to several years in prison and exhausted all of his appeals/new trial options, he might still find it in his interest to offer up testimony in exchange for a reduced sentence. I'd say such an outcome is probably more likely than not. That testimony could further implicate Cheney and Rove, which could then reopen the investigation. I'd say a deal of some sort is more likely than not, and would certainly fit the standard MO of a prosecutor working on a corruption case. A couple of things could derail that: Libby could decide to be a stand-up guy, keep his mouth shut and do his time--the dark code of Republican omerta doing its work. Or there's always the chance of a pResidential pardon. Failing those two outcomes, though, I'd say we're just getting started.

[progressoid]

82. Nonplussed? - - my choice was "underwhelmed".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x353476#355049

Considering the scale of offenses by this administration, one person convicted for lying and obstruction seems a little anti-climatic.

I suppose I should try to see the silver lining, but Fitz closed up shop long ago & the spin machines are going full throttle to obfuscate the situation for the few Americans who even know who Libby is. We can't count on the media to connect the dots.

So, I guess that leaves us with Congress.....color me underwhelmed.

[struggle4progress]

83. It's a goldmine if we use it properly: it intersects so many issues!

If somebody wants to talk about Iran, one can discuss nuclear proliferation: how the Administration dropped the ball on Nunn-Lugar, how Bolton sabotaged the NPT, how Cheney and his crowd outed Plame's shop ...

Or if somebody wants to talk about perception management by the Administration ...

Or if somebody wants to talk about the current sorry state of the media ...

Or ...

One can profitably introduce bits of this story into many different conversations

<edit: punctuation>

[Gregorian]

84. There is a glimmer of hope.

I find relief in the short term from this conviction. I was snapped out of my daze by Dean's statements that echo your sentiment.

Short term, there is hope.

Long term, I'm afraid the picture is much more bleak. The level of education in this society, and the very value of it, are the reason for this long decline. I only mention this part since it's the apathy and ignorance that ever allowed the criminals to even get close to stealing the election, let alone stealing it. Twice.

This conviction is evidence that there is still life left in this country. I'm not optimistic. But the human is resilient and creative. I want to be wrong. I want to see diamonds rising from the ash. Perhaps this is just the first sparkle.

[Stephanie]

87. I'm with you.

I can't talk you down, I'm right there next to you on the ledge.