I'm sorry but I REALLY do not understand why Libby and/or Cheney were not indicted for treason.

[MoonRiver]

In the official testimony it was obvious that Libby took orders from the Vice Pres., and heard from him that Valerie Plame was a CIA agent. Cooper and Russert say they were told about Plame from Libby. Follow the dots. At the very least Libby should have been indicted for outing a CIA agent, which, I assume, equals treason.

Why was this trial just about perjury and obstruction of justice?????

[TomInTib]

1. They were sure they could convict on obstruction and lying/perjury.

Treason is a really tough prosecution.

[MoonRiver]

2. Sounds to me like they had a ton of evidence.

[cassiepriam]

3. Because, dear, the repugs do not have to follow the law.

Laws, morality, and ethics are only for the Dems.
And if a Dem sneezes they are swift boated.

[MoonRiver]

5. We're talking about prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald.

I think he's an Independent.

[cassiepriam]

7. Oh I am not blaming him at all. The American people are to blame.

They have allowed sociopaths to take over their country
who are above the law.

[MoonRiver]

9. True, sadly.

[sandnsea]

4. Wasn't she declassified?

I thought that Cheney declassified the whole thing before they leaked it. Maybe, technically, that makes it difficult to bring charges.

:shrug:

[Mnemosyne]

13. To declassify a covert agent, the president or agent must

first notify the CIA and the agent.

Never happened. Treason all around.

Looking for the link, may be one of H2O Man's recent threads.

[MoonRiver]

15. THANK YOU!

I've heard just a few too many apologists for this criminal adm.

[sandnsea]

28. Apologists???

Good fucking god. Telling the truth about facts doesn't mean one likes the consequences of the facts. In addition, law can be, and usually is, interpreted differently by different scholars. Who would a jury believe regarding declassification? Did the President and Vice-President really conspire to put our country at risk??? We've got idiots on this jury who feel sorry for fucking LIBBY for chrissake. What do you think that same jury is going to do if you ask them to convict a Vice President with conflicting expert testimony and charges that indicate treason. That isn't apologizing for anybody. Those are just the cold hard facts. Convicting a President and/or Vice President isn't an easy thing to do, I don't know that it's ever been done in a court of law.

[Mnemosyne]

32. Napi says in another post that it is only customary, not required.

There goes our sense of relief. Sorry. :blush::hi:

I'm going to do some more searching anyway, just in case.

[librechik]

24. He has asserted he has that right, but he does not.

He can classify things thanks to a new exec order he got the puppet to sign. De classifying requires documentation and people signing off on it other than Cheney somewhere down the line. That was a tall tale Cheney put over on FoxNews.

[napi21]

6. I believe you're forgetting that the Prez gave declassification

privileges to Cheney. As I see it, if directly accused, Cheney would simply say he declassified the info on Plame, and when he told Scooter, there was no crime.

I have to givecredit to this admin! Not for being good at anything, but for being extremely good at covering all the bases! IF they get caught doing anything criminally provable, it sure isn't going to be because they weren't great at CYA!

You can NEVER FORGET... You MUST be able to PROVE your case!!!!

[Mnemosyne]

14. There was a thread recently that stated

to declassify a covert agent, the president or agent for him, must notify the CIA and the agent first. Never happened.

Trying to find the link.

[napi21]

19. I'm not a lawyer, but I have been following all of this very closely.

As I understand it, the comment was "It is CUSTOMARY, and considered common courtesy to notify the Dept. that originally classified the info, but it is NOT illegal to eliminate that step.

In other words, Shrub/Cheney don't GAS about protocol, or what is right or in the best interests of any Department or the Country. They just care about THEM!

[Mnemosyne]

31. Customery, not required? Crap. We know *co has no

courtesy.

Thanks for correcting my mis-info napi! :hi:

[Hissyspit]

8. Smoke. This admin blurs the legality of everything. They are extra-legal

on the face of it, illegal in the subtext and substance.

It is highly immoral, but you knew that about them already.

[MazeRat7]

10. Errr... Because the didn't have a case...

I mean after all, the whole point of charging conspiracy is because your witness lying to keep prosecutors from getting to the facts of a more severe charge.

MZr7

[BuyingThyme]

11. Because they're winning.

They have successfully obstructed justice.

[Kahuna]

12. Cheney says he was given the authority by dim son to declassify

willy nill and at will, so there is no crime. Silly us. D'oh.:silly:

[Mnemosyne]

16. Not declassified...

There was a thread recently that stated that to declassify a covert agent, the president or agent for him, must notify the CIA and the agent first. Never happened.

Trying to find the link.

[librechik]

17. It;s too difficult to prove intent--especially with these lying weasels

intent is at the heart of all those other crimes you mention.Even though 70% of the country "knows" Cheney is the guilty party here, we need a confession or the like to prove it. None of the witnesses will spill on each other ( "the aspens are connected at the roots.") So we wait for a break.

The more that comes out about these thugs,the more hated they become, and the more likely it is we will get that break. A BushCo Joe Valachi might come forward, you never know .

[MoonRiver]

18. Intent is all over the place!

Cheney was mad that Wilson was reducing his chances to go to war in Iraq. He was either looking for revenge, or somehow trying to minimize Wilson's influence by causing a brouhaha (possibly killing CIA agents as a consequence) that distracted from the negative Niger report.

[napi21]

21. You cannot prove intent without corroboration. WE may see INTENT

behind every door and under every rock, but that's not the way it works in court. There is NO WAY to know or prove what someone was thinking. If emails, notes,tapes,letters, or SOMETHING were found to corroborate that, THEN you have a case. Until then, we're all guessing.

[Cerridwen]

25. Isn't that where Sibel Edmonds comes in?

It sounds as though she has the information that goes toward showing intent to maintain global arms sales and money laundering, among other things.

If I'm reading the things about her correctly.

Then yesterday, two whistleblowers reported on some of the information she's been "gagged" from saying.

I think, if I remember correctly, that her information is what ties this all together. cheney was covering his backside and Sibel Edmonds' information has the reason behind it which could probably show his intent.

I hope that made some sense.

edit typo and clarification

[napi21]

26. Maybe. I don't know what Dibel has, but she's been gaged, and

until someone or something breaks that gag order, you still have NOTHING!

[Cerridwen]

29. The two whistleblowers coming out on Monday -

she's been gagged, they've not - and they're reporting information she's been required to keep quiet. They substantiate what's already known from her testimony. That is my understanding.

She's been gagged. The information hasn't. Perhaps Walton may remove the gag with this "new" information. Yep, I believe, same Walton as libby trial is the judge who gagged Sibel Edmonds.

[librechik]

22. yup, indeed, and you would have 70% of the jury convinced

I would do it myself, but Fitzgerald has a reputation for never losing a case, and so he won't do that one without better evidence. Hope he puts the squeeze on Scooter, but I don't think Lewis will turn. Maybe. Maybe not. The new Mrs. Libby is a factor Cheney didn't count on. But Cheney has Scooter's nuts in his pocket. These people are hard core.

[Generator]

20. The Sopranos is back on next month

Though truly often too violent and many of the characters are repugnant to me, I watch it for clues to understand my country.

[NotGivingUp]

23. My sentiments exactly!!! Treason...nothing less!!!

[mmonk]

27. We're in a dictatorship.

The ones that pull the strings are untouchable and there are always fall guys.

[Oilwellian]

30. Joe Wilson explained it on Olbermann's show tonight

If Fitzgerald went for charges of treason, Libby & Cheney could have turned it into a three-ringed circus by asking for all sorts of classified information pertaining to Plame's work to be brought into evidence. It would have taken years if ever for that information to become declassified. Perjury and obstruction of justice were of course the lesser crimes, but it obviously was a successful move on Fitzgerald's part.

[wiggs]

33. Fitz may not have all the evidence he needs....but that should not stop congress

from investigating, and if warranted, resolution of impeachment brought. Must be done.

Remember, CIA can't be happy about this. They must be furious (those clear-thinkers that are left after the purge).