Is it true? Are the Democrats in on it too?

[Philosoraptor]

If this post is too disruptive or too caustic, please delete it. I'm just asking aloud the thing I fear the most.

Why hasn't bush been impeached or stopped? Why do the Democrats keep giving in to the neo cons and their evil plans? Why are gas prices and food prices skyrocketing? Why is the nation falling apart at the seams?

Why are votes not being counted? Why are ultimatum's not being layed out? Why is the opposition party not opposing tyranny and treason?

What the hell is going on with OUR party? Please tell me they are not in cahoots with the enemies of America.

[jakem]

1. i second the question.

where is the outrage of our elected officials?

[Fireweed247]

121. There is no 'opposition'

The PNAC 9/11 plan was far too important to leave the opposition up to chance. They have been working for years to install this 'opposition' so they could make their move. Paul Wellstone was the last real Democrat standing and the example for anyone else who might go against them.

[Golden Raisin]

129. Feingold still has a pair of balls

but one person here or there standing up for the Constitution and the Republic is not enough against the hundreds on both sides of the aisle who have become insular Beltway-bots.

[quiet.american]

137. Yep. nt

[davekriss]

151. I think you forgot Feingold, Kennedy, a few others... (nt)

[ThomWV]

181. And a very god damned few others it was too.

[Sonexdd]

155. George Carlin

Forget the politicians, they’re irrelevant.

Politicians are put there to give you that idea that you have freedom of choice. You don’t. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land, they own and control the corporations, and they’ve long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the State Houses, and the City Halls. They’ve got the judges in their back pockets. And they own all the big media companies so they control just about all the news and information you get to hear.

They’ve got you by the balls.

They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want; they want more for themselves and less for everybody else. But I’ll tell you what they don’t want—they don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. That’s against their interest. You know something, they don’t want people that are smart enough to sit around their kitchen table and figure out how badly they’re getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago.

They don’t want that, you know what they want?

They want obedient workers, obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it.

And now they’re coming for your social security money.

They want your fucking retirement money; they want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you sooner or later because they own this fucking place. It’s a big club and you ain’t in it! You and I are not in the Big Club. By the way, it’s the same big club they use to beat you in the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head with their media telling you what to believe, what to believe, what to think and what to buy.

The table is tilted folks, the game is rigged.

Nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. Good honest hard working people, white collar, blue collar, it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on. Good honest hard working people continue, these are people of modest means, continue to elect these rich cocksuckers who don’t give a fuck about them. They don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t give a fuck about…give a fuck about you! They don’t care about you at all, at all, at all.

And nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care.

That’s what the owners count on, the fact that Americans are and will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white, and blue dick that’s being jammed up their assholes everyday. Because the owners of this country know the truth, it’s called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it."

[closeupready]

189. Wow, what a great piece. He had it down, didn't he?

Too bad people didn't listen to him.

[Beausoir]

195. That Carlin piece should be required reading for every Dem apologist on DU.

They are all in it together.

[mmonk]

2. I guess so. Logic dictates there is some reason.

[Tesha]

46. Of course there's a reason: Our politicians love their power more than they love doing what's right.

They retain their power by "playing along" whereas doing
the right thing would risk their cushy political jobs.

Tesha

[driver8]

48. Bingo!!

That is it in a nutshell.

[trthnd4jstc]

115. I agree, n.t.

[EV_Ares]

178. Exactly Tesha:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3585773&mesg_id=3593408

[JustAnotherGen]

3. Fair questions

:cheers:

[liberal N proud]

4. Key Democratic leaders anyway

Makes one wonder the lack of interest for retribution to the crimes committed

[Enrique]

5. no, it's because they want to beat the republicans

in fact, the republicans voted with the impeachment advocates on one vote. It could be argued that the impeachment advocates are the ones in cahoots with the republicans, though I wouldn't argue that.

[mmonk]

9. Yes, that makes sense. We who want to protect the Constitution

and hold an out law Republican administration accountable are in cahoots with them and those that seek to protect them and support weakening the Constitution and not hold them accountable are against them. Makes perfect Orwellian sense. Up is down.

[Enrique]

22. an impeachment wouldn't necessarily hold the administration accountable

it could fail, and if it succeeded maybe it would have no effect.

And on the other hand, suppose the impeachment effort caused the dems to lose Congress and the presidency. The effects of that would be immense.

[Lucky 13]

65. So let's compromise what is right for what is popular or politically expedient?

No fucking thanks.

[Enrique]

68. just answering the OP

[John Q. Citizen]

73. What if saving your childs life meant they grew up and launched the bomb?

So, are you going to let your kid drown, just in case?

[The Liberal Thinker]

79. My sentiments exactly.

Impeachment would be a waste of time and an easy way to make the Republicans seem like the victims. Bush will be gone in 6 months anyway, what's the big deal? People have to chillax.

[Two Americas]

103. what's the big deal?

"What's the big deal?"

(TA shaking head in disbelief)

[Andrea]

146. Yeah, like those Germans in the 30s.

Those people really knew how to chill. What's my problem?

[The Liberal Thinker]

158. Are you seriously going to compare Nazi Germany with todays USA?

Because that would be uproariously unwarranted and outrageous.

[Name removed]

164. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AntiFascist]

166. One of the most relevant aspects of fascism we are currently facing...

is the merger of big business and government. This is what was behind the current FISA bill, and even Democratic Senator Jay Rockefeller admitted that if we removed telecom immunity then it might be bad for the government in doing future business with the telecoms. It's like one big mafia family. Also, if big businesses can listen in on their competition then it keeps them nice and secure - an issue of 'national security' for them. Hey, you try and take on the famiglia with your fancy business and they put you on their list of 'terror' threats. Don't mess with Veto!

[Andrea]

186. Thank you. n/t

[The Liberal Thinker]

192. Alright, let's take that point by point.

1) Nationalism does not a fascist state make. People have been nationalistic in every country since the dawn of nationalism in the 1800s, late 1700s if you want to count the French Revolution. People were nationalistic in World War I and II when we were fighting against fascism. In fact, I would argue that since America is not a nation that came out of some ephemeral primordial soup of antiquity that other nations came out of -- we are one of the youngest nations -- our nationalism is not based on a heritage of identity but rather a heritage of common values.

2) We have some human rights abuses. But these are not tantamount to the practices of Nazi Germany. There are no concentration camps, there are no mass roundups of people in the middle of the night. There are no assassinations. There are no summary executions. And when there are human rights abuses it is not done on the government's whim, mostly to non-Americans, and it is done because someone suspects there is a danger to the United States and its people.

3) You could point to the scapegoating of Iraq as evidence for that point but that was a very short-term thing. The Jews, for example, were a consistent and long-term enemy of the Nazi Regime. Who is their counterpart in New American Fascism? Muslims? There's no coordinated or effective effort on the part of any central government authority to demonize Muslims. Liberals and Democrats? I have news for you, demonizing political opponents is what happens in a democracy. Killing political opponents is what happens in fascism. That doesn't happen here.

4) So we have supremacy of the miltary. We honor our veterans. We provide our military with a hefty defense budget. I think we provide them with too much. But our military needs it because it is fighting a two-front war, not because George Bush has fascist designs on this country.

5) Rampant sexism has been present in every group of people for pretty much all time. The United States doesn't have the highest level of women in government, but take a look at the two people that sit behind the President at the SOTU. One of them is a woman. We just had a woman almost become the Democratic nominee for President. We're not doing too bad on sexism in this country, at least not as bad as Nazi Germany.

6) Censorship is present in this country. Most of it has to do with indecency, and I think you would agree with me that its probably not a good thing to allow children to see obscene or violent things on the TV set, right? There is censorship on wartime information but that's the nature of war, like it or not. You may argue that Fox News is a talking points outlet for the Bush Administration, but they're not the only outlet. We have many other free sources of press in this country.

7) Fear was used by the government as a way to galvanize us into war, I give you that.

8) Religion and government are often mixed in this government, but they are not intertwined. And guess what, if people want to vote for Christian candidates, that's their prerogative. That's the foundation of Democracy.

9) Corporate power is being protected, and this is probably your strongest argument but I do not think that this thus implies fascism, I think it's crooked business dealings as we've seen through all time in government, except it's on a larger monetary scale.

10) Is labor power really suppressed? Sure, it's not as powerful as some of us would prefer it to be, but are labor unions denied the right to organize? No. Are they eliminated? No.

11) There is disdain for the educated and the arts, but that's more coming from the many uneducated common folk who didn't go to school, not the nearly all of those in government who went to places of higher education. Sure, there is an anti-elitist vein in this country, but that's coming a lot more from the riff raff than the government.

12) I completely disagree with this one. Our police doesn't have unlimited ability for crime and punishment. In fact, the law is always getting in their way and people are always whining. And crime and punishment? That sounds an awful lot like justice to me.

13) There is cronyism, but I'll tell you, it could be worse. It could be a LOT worse.

14) Fraudulent elections, yes, we've had them. Well, one. 2000 was a big fuck-up and that election was stolen from us in the worst way possible. In 2004, we just lost. We simply lost. We sucked, big time. But guess what, in 2006, we ran the table! Holy shit, we walloped them! Don't you think that if the GOP was a fascist dictatorship they would not have let that happen?

Looking at your points, I will cede to you this, we have an administration that is in bed with their cronies and the corporations. We have an irresponsible media. We have unfortunate but not unusual human tendencies to demonize. And we have people who are making the wrong call with national security vs. civil liberties. Different worldviews. Not fascism.

Listen, if we had fascism, 50% of the people on Democratic Underground would be dead or in prison camps. Do you think Hitler would have stood for a "Jewish Underground" had there been internet in those days? Fuck no. If our government is as ruthless and inefficient as you claim, why are we allowed to sit here and make conversation about this and many other topics that a fascist government would not take kindly to?

If we had fascism, the government would not be so concerned about keeping people's right to bear arms. Have you ever heard of a fascist state that fosters the right to have weapons?

I don't think that it's all or nothing in regards to civil liberties vs. safety. I think we can have both. I don't lose sleep over the fact that suspected terrorists are being held in Guantanamo Bay. I wish that they would have due process and we're on the way to getting some of them due process, but you cannot deny there is a terrorist threat and if that terrorist threat materializes in the form of nuclear weapons being used on American soil, you're going to wish we'd interrogated the terrorists and checked out every single suspected lead.

Here's why I don't think that after the incompetence and corruption of this adminstration, that we have a fascist state. I believe these people are not doing these for their own benefit or the seeking of unlimited power. They would have grabbed more. They would have done it quicker. We would be locked up, and we're not. The administration is doing this because they truly want to keep the American people safe.

You can tell me they're evil, but I disagree.

In any case, they'll be gone in six months. Terms limits were something Hitler never had to deal with.

[Andrea]

185. Germany didn't go to bed one night a democracy

and wake up the next morning a fascist totalitarian regime. It was a process. It started somewhere. It's neither unwarranted nor outrageous to be concerned.

[The Liberal Thinker]

193. We could be on the road to fascism.

But it's going to be a long road, and I don't think we're anywhere close to fascism.

I am concerned but I'm not going to granstand and pretend I'm the freedom fighting hero that so many on this board claim to be because it's really not as bad as people think.

[Thor_MN]

202. Look up the word "Fascism" and reconsider if we are not there

A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

As a rule, fascist governments are dominated by a dictator, who usually possesses a magnetic personality, wears a showy uniform, and rallies his followers by mass parades; appeals to strident nationalism; and promotes suspicion or hatred of both foreigners and “impure” people within his own nation, such as the Jews in Germany. Although both communism and fascism are forms of totalitarianism, fascism does not demand state ownership of the means of production, nor is fascism committed to the achievement of economic equality. In theory, communism opposes the identification of government with a single charismatic leader (the “cult of personality”), which is the cornerstone of fascism. Whereas communists are considered left-wing, fascists are usually described as right-wing.

Only thing * is missing is a uniform...

[skyounkin]

153. Upholding the law

Is NEVER a waste of time.

He should be impeached- he should be sent to the Hauge.

"Chillax"? Shut the fuck up!

[The Liberal Thinker]

157. I guess the difference is I see George Bush as an incompetent, corrupt ass of a President.

You see him as evil.

[proud2BlibKansan]

161. OMG

You really don't understand why it's important to hold him accountable?!?!?

[The Liberal Thinker]

190. It's important.

But not going to happen and to try would be a waste of time and resources.

[TBF]

94. Enrique, the president has the lowest approval rating in history -

who exactly do you think would be against impeachment? So we let Bush off for pre-emptively starting a war, offing the leader of a sovereign nation, and murdering untold numbers of Iraqis. Meanwhile the republicans get away with impeaching Bill Clinton for a blow job? Honestly, does that make any sense to you? This is all a big crock.

I have my doubts that this will even be a fair election. The only thing that gives me any hope is that there are enough Obama-lovers that might be willing to take to the streets if it's tampered with. If that doesn't happen and McCain gets the presidency, they get their 5th justice to the Supreme Court (and probably 6th - Ginsburg and Stevens are both holding on by threads), and it will be game over. The fascists will have won.

[Two Americas]

104. a few still like him

We must move very, very slowly and carefully. Once we have 150% of the seats in Congress, and the approval ratings for the Republicans are down to 10% or less, then maybe - maybe - it will be safe to do something. Until then we must be very, very careful.

When dealing with bullies, it is always best to back down to them at all times and never stand up to them. If you stand up to them, they might hurt you.

(sarcasm of course - can't believe that I feel the need to say that here these days)

[TBF]

111. ...

:banghead:

[davekriss]

152. TBF, the Democratic Congress also is at record lows (nt)

[TBF]

196. deservedly so & we need to vote the bums out. I am hoping for a challenger

against Lampson in my district (Texas - south of Houston). It's not enough to take DeLay's seat if it is Democrat in name only. If there is a more progressive dem running against him he is getting my time & $$$. I'm already contributing to Rick Noriega in the attempt to unseat Cornyn in the Senate. It's back to basics now. We all have alot of work to do.

[zanne]

28. The Democratic Party has been watering itself down...

Somewhere along the line, we became timid and started trying to avoid too much criticism by the likes of Karl Rove and friends, so we watered ourselves down and went toward the "center", which has been moved by the Republicans so far to the right that nobody recognizes it anymore. All you have to do to be labeled "far left" now is to believe in equal rights for everybody, including gays and the ERA, Affirmative Action, single payer healthcare and gun control.

[Enrique]

33. I think the dem party has been moving to the left recently

since Clinton I guess. And the republicans are moving to the center. As Bernie Sanders says, right-wing extremism is in retreat.

[robinlynne]

70. You forgot the sarcasm smilie.

[Two Americas]

107. lol

Is there anything to the right of where we are now? Has a supposedly left wing political party ever been this far to the right in history?

[zonmoy]

136. website of a group that is actually to the right of the cabal. not that there is too much more than

this batch of christofascists to the right of the repukes.

http://www.chalcedon.edu/

[Enthusiast]

109. I see no signs of it. Retreat.

Obama has moved to the right and McCain has moved to the right. Pelosi has surrendered to the Republicans. The Democrats have caved into Bush on every issue. Where is the move to the left? Where?

[mwb970]

39. Liberty, equality, justice.

To me, those are the goals of liberalism. They are (were) also the heart and soul of America, a liberal democracy governed by a liberal Constitution and filled with people who support liberal policies on virtually every issue. And yet the slide into right-wing tyranny and corporate fascism continues, seemingly gaining speed by the day, aided and abetted by obscenely rich rabble rousers like BillO and hardcore junkie pedophile Rush Limbaugh (I know, they're just rumors, but he hasn't denied it).

I spend every day now feeling sad for the loss of America. When I read the paper every morning I feel like a fist is coming right out of the page and punching me in the face over and over. (Today's paper had several maddening articles about the Dick's illegal - and unpunished - behavior in several crucial areas.) It's been like this since the right-wing Clinton witch hunt of the 90s.

The fact that almost nobody in a position of power is even trying to do a damn thing about it, and that when someone actually does (Kucinich) the media ignores it totally, is the saddest of all.

What a pathetic country. How did we turn into this so quickly?


edit: typo

[Two Americas]

105. cowardice

It is called cowardice in the face of bullies. There isn't any complicated political explanation, it isn't a clever strategy, it isn't being "realistic" nor "practical," and it is not a way to "win" anything. It is a way to crawl, grovel, appease and surrender.

Sam Adams had a message for cowardly compromising politicians and their sycophants -

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

[Andrea]

145. Heck, I've been relegated to the radical fringe left

because I believe in the constitution.

The Democratic party has watered itself down the way they do when they make those homeopathic remedies -- 2 drops to 10 gallons of water.

[crickets]

168. Respectfully, I don't think "we" became timid.

We seem to be just fine. We're still here. It's not new that our representatives are the ones who have dropped the ball, regardless of what we may think or want, regardless of what we tell them we think and want. The ridiculous "far left" label rose as the Fairness Doctrine was sunk and done away with, another egregious loss for which our representatives are partly responsible. Rove's linguistic BS gained such a foothold because it was allowed to do so... and for the same reason much of the other crap is going on.

There's MONEY involved.

[merh]

6. I think some gave their blessings - they knew about the torture

and the spying on US citizens and they knew the programs were wrong, but they gave their blessings.

For others, I think it is a matter of focusing on changing the power structure from within, that getting control of the WH and a greater majority in congress is the objective right now. Once control is taken away from the nutcase and his thugs, then they can focus on correcting the mistakes and holding folks accountable. At least that is my hope, that they will hold folks accountable this time around and not forgive the crimes like they did for poppy and co.

[Philosoraptor]

7. I've always voted D, & I always will I guess.

But man o man, they have let me down.

[merh]

12. You and me both.

If we don't change how campaigns are financed, we will never take back our country. We can't afford to because we can't match what corporations can give and do for candidates and elected officials.

I pray they won't brush away the crimes as they have done in the past, they have to make things right and they have to hold folks accountable.

[TBF]

110. With all due respect I think it's going to take more than prayer, Merh

As far as I'm concerned the answer is never voting Republican... this is about holding our own dems accountable or finding new ones who are stronger. Our own party is selling us out.

[Patchuli]

120. That's it, too! Election finance reform

so that once again, ANY American can become president, rather than just bazillionaires *and* the break up of the media conglomerates and some re-regulating so that propaganda cannot be passed off as 'news!' I was very heartened to see a Readers' Digest with an article that said "Are our elections safe?" talking about the problems with the DRES! Yayyyyyyyy! Middle (oblivious) America is getting the news but not a moment too soon!

[Hubert Flottz]

20. I feel your pain.

"How DO we spell Relief?"

(and yes, I'm talking about the dreadful gas-oline pains too)

RELIEF is off the table, so the pain marches on and on and on and the BushCo/PNAC infection is running it's crooked, self serving course, for the most part unimpeded.("Appeased")

[jumptheshadow]

118. It is your "hope?"

That's an awful lot of trust you have in strangers with good salesmanship skills.

The Democratic senators who voted for this bill seriously damaged their credibility and will be seen as weak by all Americans of all political stripes. They hurt our party. Mark my words: This vote is going to be a benchmark similar to the IWR.

Any Democratic politician who voted for any version of this bill just lost crucial independent voters and key financial support from Democrats.

Many voters are going to shift their contributions to candidates and organizations that stand strongly behind Fourth Amendment rights.

[merh]

184. I guess I have an advantage.

I actually read the bill and understand it's structure and what each provision means.

I know about that silly ole "rule of law" and how legislation like this is practically applied and reviewed by the courts, what is required and what precedence will be applied.

Oh, and I know about that silly ole constitution and how this bill actually provides protections under it, despite the cries of the many. It isn't perfect but it definitely isn't what it is made out to be.

this perspective might help you
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6473419&mesg_id=6473419

Our constitution is still alive.

This might help you too, if you want to consider the practical aspects, the rule of law and the application of the law.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3586356

[RC]

8. I have been wondering about that for years.

Didn't Nancy get her job because she said she would stand up to bu$h? It was only after she became Speaker that suddenly impeachment was off the table. In other words, she lied to us and is really one of his enablers.

[Philosoraptor]

13. Politeness gets you nowhere with monsters.

[The Backlash Cometh]

29. Nancy seems to think her job description changed when she became Speaker.

Honestly. She said so. So, in other words, she made promises before she got the job, then she gets the job and feels released by the promise because her job description changed. Tell me if that doesn't sound like the typical nuttiness that we've been experiencing since 2000?

The only explanation for this weird contrast is, that they're hiding something.

[KansDem]

187. Maybe she's only paying attention to the final duty of her job description.

The employee will carry out other duties as assigned--and those "duties" are assigned by BushCo...

[kaybea]

194. No, she got the position because she can and does raise enormous sums of cash

[dipsydoodle]

10. It would seem to mean

that the background to all of this is your system of "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours".

It doesn't work in that way in the UK.

[rucky]

11. Enough Dems to keep the scales tipped. n/t

[Horse with no Name]

14. I can't help but feel that this is the case

and we are at the point that elections are NOT going to change the course of this country that we could easily rename the Titanic.
It's going to take much more effort from ALL Americans than the ease of simply pulling a lever. Much more sacrifice too.
The question should become is how much are you willing to give for the ideals of this country?
Our EMPLOYEES in Washington have good jobs, good insurance, good benefits, pensions and cozy nest eggs they are able to skim from the coffers, lobbyists, books, etc....while the ones who foot the bill do not.
At some point...this is going to sink in to the average person.

[Breeze54]

15. I think you're right....

It's time to STOMP & SHOUT!!!! :grr:

[SmileyRose]

16. Maybe they are waiting for citizens to take to the streets?

I don't see much from America in general that tells Congress we want them to put all of it out there on the line and fight back. I doubt very many politicians will risk political suicide the way Kucinich does. The House in particular is there to represent their constituents. If the folks back home don't seem interested in throwing the Neocons bums in jail then the Pol isn't likely to put his/her gonads on the line.

[mmonk]

18. Plenty have. It just doesn't get news coverage.

Our society is pretty closed now.

[SmileyRose]

36. I don't agree

Oh sure, there've been individuals, like Cindy Sheehan for instance, who were willing to campaign in the streets but a VERY SMALL percentage of Americans have joined her. Please understand, I'm not discounting the sacrifice of individuals who have put themselves out there. I just think it's likely very very few politicians would be willing to really risk losing their political career. We do not have many Dennis Kucinich's and Cynthia McKinney's in Washington. They'll do the right thing ONLY if so many of the folks back home are demanding it that they have no choice.

Just MHO.

I think if masses of Americans take to the streets and continue to do so then you'll see the folks in Washington get braver.

[Two Americas]

106. millions

Millions took to the streets, and the activist community failed to stand with them. They weren't white, and they weren't wearing pink I guess was the problem.

[SmileyRose]

113. A goodly portion weren't voters either.

that's about the only thing that will convince a politician to do the right thing. millions and millions of mad voters.

[Two Americas]

116. we have that

The people lack leadership.

[crickets]

172. Citizens have taken to the streets. In many cities, many times.

Go to Google images and type in the major US city name of your choice + iraq war protest.

Random for Los Angeles:
townhallmeeting.org/images/events/protest031707/rallyRear.jpg (I removed the www. so as not to hotlink, but add www. and paste the rest after it at the top of a new tab and you'll get the picture.)

What about relatively small towns like the one where I've protested? No major news source is posting those pictures, but it doesn't mean the protests don't happen. Just because you aren't seeing it on TEE VEE or your home town front page doesn't mean it is not happening. It just means someone doesn't want you to know about it or think about it.

[SmileyRose]

198. absolutely

and IMveryHO the suits in Washington won't pay attention much until the protests are SO widespread, and SO sustained that even Fox (sorry I CAN'T call that "news") can't ignore it anymore.

[crickets]

200. I think you're right.

Unfortunately, when that happens it will mean the situation has gotten so bad that "activists" won't be the only ones in the streets.

Welcome to DU, SmileyRose!

[MadHound]

17. Welcome to the two party/same corporate master system of government

Republican and Democrat don't really matter, about as much as good cop/bad cop matters. What matters is which corporation is backing which so called "leader".

[MrSlayer]

19. Hi. Yes.

A lot of them are, enough to keep the gravy train of corporate fascism running.

[Demeter]

21. There Was an Epic Battle Between the DLC Clintonites and Howard Dean's Forces

Now that this has been resolved for the short term, the forces are uniting to get our candidate into the White House.

To prevent a recurrence, there will have to be a voter purge of the DLC from office. I'm hoping this will happen, but it's a big job that steps on too many toes. And to do this while simultaneously purging the Bushbots might incapacitate the government.

So the question is: Do you feel lucky, punks? That's the DLC and the Bushbots. The DLC will lose power and position, the Bushbots face jail.

[Horse with no Name]

44. DNC/DLC are two sides of the same coin

that serve the same corporate master from different angles.

[mod mom]

180. I agree w this assessment and hope you are correct that the bu$hbots face jail.

This is why I was so adamantly opposed to Hillary and would NEVER vote for any ticket w DLCer on it.

[BB1]

23. Every outsider thinks so.

The Europeans, the South Americans, the Asians all think there's one ruling class in the US. It's got two faces, yes, but its basically one class. And it's fooling you all!

Come on, Democrats! Get your heads out from under the sand and smell the George W. Bush Sewage Plant! It stinks like shit!

[jody]

24. IMO the US govt. is dominated by the one-percent who own over 50% of our financial wealth and

control every important multinational corporation. They are the corporatists.

They finance candidates from both parties and keep the electorate fighting like starving dogs over divisive, polarizing issues such as GLBT, abortion, and creationism v. evolution while they command bipartisan support for laws that reduce taxes on corporations, estates, dividends, capital gains and business risk.

The current scandals and debacle in housing is really a corporatist game, Heads the corporatists make obscene profits and Tails the working poor and declining middle class pay for all business losses.

[zanne]

31. In other words....

People who don't care about their country as long as they're doing OK.

[jody]

40. Your statement can be interpreted several ways but I assume it means "I am not my brothers keeper".

If that's your intent then I agree with you that the majority of voters ignore or are ignorant about major issues that confront us.

I have a difficult time when discussing such things as health care with blue/gray collar voters because they are most concerned about divisive, polarizing issues, e.g. evolution.

For example, the hundreds of people with whom I try to discuss political issues will eagerly discuss sports scores but quickly turn away from loss of industrial jobs.

They get agitated near election day and react to a plethora of sound bites using propaganda targeting their fears and stampede to the ballot box. When I ask them why they voted for a particular candidate, I rarely get an articulate reply.

But of course I could be 100% wrong, :shrug:

[zanne]

45. Or I could interpret my statement to mean...

They are selfish buttholes.

[jody]

49. Agree, I'll drink to that.

:toast:

GOLDEN RULE "treat others as you would like to be treated"

golden rule "those with the gold make the rules"

[Vilis Veritas]

53. Corporations really do not have a 'Country'

They are beholding to their shareholders, unless they are privately held. Shareholders span the world and that is why many global (read: extremely large) corporations see the U.S. as a static market in which saturation has been achieved and growth is predictably slow...the Middle East with it vast potentiality to create a huge new base of consumers that make the U.S. market pale by comparison is where they are putting their focus.

These are just my opinions...but I think you touched on a key point.

saddlesore

[jody]

96. Agree "Corporations really do not have a 'Country'" but SCOTUS has given them most of the rights of

citizens although corporations are not mentioned in our Constitution.

See Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company (1886)

[Vilis Veritas]

139. Exactly, however, corporations actually achieved greater freedoms

than citizens and are considered by many to be Super-Citizens that are in effect above the law and that simple fact is why the U.S. as conceived was history over 100 years ago.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0507/S00008.htm

saddlesore

[Vilis Veritas]

55. And you will find banks at the root of it all...

saddlesore

[jody]

97. Agree. Christianity condones usury but Islam does not. One of the hidden goals in Iraq is to write

laws under U.S. guidance creating a banking system with western style loans and interest rates.

See Islamic banking

[The Backlash Cometh]

25. I'm way ahead of you.

I think they're trying to figure out a way to repackage the neo-con plan to get the US involved with the Middle East takeover that would make A) The oil men happy and B) the religious zealots in both the Christian and Judaic world. If it's the latter, I'm trying to figure out who in the Congress is committed to religious sects that we don't know about. We should, at least, know who they are and what they are.

My tinfoil cap is so bristling electric, that I'm even questioning weird discoveries like this one:

http://www.solomonia.com/blog/archive/2008/07/a-dead-sea-scroll-on-stone/

[pokercat999]

99. From the article:

"because it suggests that the story of his death and resurrection was part of a recognized Jewish tradition at the time."

I thought this was common knowledge, the coming of the Jewish Prophet, was predicted by ancient texts and that most the story of Jesus was written to agree with that prediction. Maybe I'm missing something as I'm a non-believer in any and all Deities.

[MissDeeds]

26. Important question

I remember during the 2006 election cycle that many Democrats running for office were touting impeachment and an end to the war. It was integral to their campaigns and carried them into office. Then, after they were elected, not another word was mentioned. They changed position so quickly that you had to wonder WTH?

[Senator]

27. Failure To Impeach Makes Then "In On It Too" -- By Definition

Which makes them worse than the neo-fascists -- who are at least quasi-honest about their desire that a minority (theirs) rule the majority in this once-great, Now-Nonconstitutional Nation.

And their serial failures have been tearing OUR party to shreds. Not in the visible way that the GOP is storming off in different directions, but by draining every drop of vitality from the decaying carcass that was once a "national" coalition -- championing common values and principles to build "a more perfect union."

This euphemedia-driven Obamania is a "lite" substitute for what a serious Opposition Party could be doing electorally. It is more symptom than cure. (Just look at the polls.) And there's no need for "cahoots." Being AWOL is just as damaging as being "enemy." That's why battlefield deserters are shot. We need to get/keep busy with political/non-violent alternatives (this link not an endorsement).

But admitting we have a debilitating problem is a first step for every single one of us.

---

[madokie]

30. I say NSA, Wiretaping and BLACKMAIL

in that order

[warren pease]

144. Yeah, probably, but the thing is...

What the hell are people who allegedly have a moral compass and should, at least in theory, be somewhat less ethically deficient than republicans -- which christ knows isn't all that difficult... what are these paragons of virtue doing putting themselves in a position where the NSA traps all their calls and emails, looks for embarrassing or politically damaging incidents AND FINDS THEM?

And if this blackmail theory is actually true, are they all guilty of actions so nefarious or illegal that they will go to any lengths to keep them buried? They'll even act as accomplices and accessories to the malevolent corruption of the Bush international crime syndicate?

If that's the case, why in hell should I vote for any of them? I don't care about blow jobs in the oval office. I don't care who's boffing whom. I don't really care about senators in diapers at whorehouses, except for the comic relief and hypocrisy value. I don't even care about shuffling feet in what's now known as the Larry Craig Memorial airport bathroom stall, and except that he's a career jerkoff and it's hilarious to watch him try to bullshit his way out of this one. And another documented case of epic GOP hypocrisy as well.

I do care when an entire political party that insists on self-identifying as the antidote to the GOP sleaze machine is so compromised that they're willing to vote against the Constitution and their personal oaths of office just to keep their sorry asses out of the headlines.

Btw, did you know that DynCorp managed the entire congressional telecom system back in 2001? You could look it up.


wp

[RufusTFirefly]

149. Corporations have no moral compass. They're not immoral. Just amoral.

Unfortunately, key members of Congress do their bidding.

If there isn't some sort of profit at the end of a piece of legislation, it's gonna go nowhere.
And if, heaven forbid, a piece of legislation should actually result in corporate losses??

Forget about it.

[crickets]

163. This is what really gets to me.

Aside from the Gang of Eight - and even they still have some wiggle room if they come clean, the little weasels - what could they possibly have done that compares to WAR CRIMES? Well, some are guilty of war profiteering, but other than THAT...

I used to ask myself this question only about Republican reps: how do they sleep at night?

WTF, mate. It blows the mind.

What could be worth any secret they MIGHT have kept up to now, before passing this monstrosity? It's not like their secrets are safe for much longer, if they ever were at all. What could they have done, what could they need to hide that justifies flushing the entire country down the fascism drain again and again?

Are they worried about a sudden accidental death? Hey, don't these people fly on planes all the time? I don't know about them, but my fear of flying has nothing to do with terrorists from halfway around the world. I'm more worried about some horrible "Seconds from Disaster" lack of maintenance, or the flight controllers who've been screwed since Reagan and are now counting the days to retirement. (Democratic reps flying in private planes are another issue entirely. YMMV.)

http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0207/020807b1.htm

Anthrax? Congress, why are all of you not screaming at the tops of your lungs about that, if only in totally justified self-preservation? Hey, we'd understand, especially given other people died just because someone wanted to scare the crap out of you. Why hasn't anyone been CHARGED, much less tried for that crime?

Btw, did you know that DynCorp managed the entire congressional telecom system back in 2001?

SHIT.

DynCorp. We all know what happened the last time one of our elected representatives brought THAT up. You know, if anyone wants to complain about Cynthia's social skills, I will not argue. There are times they appear to be lacking. There are times I couldn't care less. Anyone who so courageously and handily made a fool of Donald Rumsfeld gets my respect, even if she screwed up on other occasions. Cynthia had the courage to ask questions others would not touch, about Dyncorp and other issues that sent reps running like scared rats, and just listen to some of the answers (ha) that she got... or didn't get.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eootfzAhAoU

"Keep the powder dry until after elections" means "not enough of us are willing to stand up together, so if weyou don't rock the boat, we'll get reelected."

And?

StabilityStatus quo is maintainedmaintained for us, for now, and you are on your own. Shh! We've got a plan!

Yep. There's a plan. We're watching it unfold.

Fasten your seatbelts, people. It's going to be a bumpy, long dark night.

[KharmaTrain]

32. Stockholm Complex

No, I'm not absolving ANY Democrat who votes on this bill...especially those who feel it will somehow make nice to the GOOP and take an issue off the table. They won't. You've been had if that's the justification.

I've asked myself the same question that you do and the only explanation I come up with is how compromised ALL are in the beltway. Some Democrats DID know about the program...like Jay Rockefeller...and instead of blowing a whistle, wrote a letter and put it in his desk. I imagine he has many letters in there...and still lets this regime roll over him. He's conflicted as he did nothing to stop this travesty (and if he didn't know it at the time, he doesn't deserve to be in any position of power) but now he is trying to cover it over and hope that we "move along". No doubt, lots of Telcom money has been spread around and I can imagine the pitch from the lobbyists must be awfully compelling. Again, no free passes here...just trying to rationalize how so many Democrats sold out both their constituents and principals by supporting this draconian bill.

My fingers point at Hoyer and Emmanuel for caving to the Blue Dogs and the telcoms...had it not been for them, this "bill" would still be swirling the legistlative drain.

[cobalt1999]

34. The Dems want the country's slide to continue

At least until the election.

Why fix gas prices when every trip to the pump angers people about Bush?
Why impeach Bush and remove the lightning rod for the nations frustration?

It's all about gaining & holding power, it's not about right/wrong or doing the best for the country. Furthermore, it's never been OUR party, it's just a large group of human politicians, endowed with the long list of human weaknesses, mostly acting for their own personal benefit...it's never been about US.

[vssmith]

35. IMHO the Democratic Party took a big right turn with the election of WJ Clinton

Is this bad? I am not sure but I didn't like it at the time and I still don't.

[mwb970]

37. I can't understand it.

The Dems have a tsunami at their backs, with 80-85% of the people in agreement with them against bush and his thugs, and they still just stand there in mute stupor. I hate the sight of our country slipping into corporate fascism while democracy's "defenders" stand around with their thumbs up their butts.

Thanks for nothing, Congressional Dems! What a waste of perfectly good oxygen.

[salguine]

38. Isn't it obvious? They ARE in cahoots with the enemies of America.

[Echo In Light]

50. Yes, it is quite obvious. Hence the fervent denial within indoctrinated circles.

[LWolf]

41. Yes. n/t

[spanone]

42. my vote: they are in on it.

[ellie]

43. Yes.

America is over. It has been bought and sold to the highest bidder, and it ain't the people.

[pollo poco]

134. Agreed n/t

[TheWatcher]

47. "Please tell me they are not in cahoots with the enemies of America."

If I could do that with any reasonable certainty, I would gladly do so.

But since you are someone I have a lot of respect for, and you prefer to live in reality and not a feel-good, comfortable, lucid, Pleasantville, Matrix, I cannot in good conscience supply you with that Tonic.

Being a Red Pill person, I think you know the answer to the question, deep down.

The question remains:

What are We the People, prepared to do?

The Declaration is quite clear about the matter.

[RFKJrNews]

167. What are We, The People, prepared to do about the matter?

Watcher, you are correct. The Declaration is quite clear about what we must do:

"ALTER OR ABOLISH IT"

The answer to 1984 is 1776.

[TheWatcher]

170. Indeed it is.

That is the answer.

The QUESTION is, do the American People have the courage and the will to do what the Declaration Instructs?

At this point in time, I fear, sadly, the answer to that Question is No.

Most of them don't even see the Wolf at the door.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

51. Like Siamese Twins attached at the pocketbook.

[blindpig]

52. Yes.

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."

Thomas Jefferson

God forbid it come to this, and revolutions come in different forms, but it's time to face reality.

And no, Obama surely ain't it.

[helderheid]

54. Hell if I have any answers. What the hell is going on with our party?

[Marr]

56. Yes, many of them-- especially the ranking members-- are in on it.

They want Bush's 'corporations and wealth first' policies as much as the Republicans. They're bought and paid for-- that's *why* they're in the leadership positions.

Losing the majority wouldn't bother them in the least, so long as they themselves are reelected. These people win by 'losing'. Just look at all the maneuvering they've had to do in order to pass Bush legislation. It'd be so much easier to just be in the minority and offer that lame (and untrue) line about how they 'didn't have enough votes to stop' whatever piece of fascist legislation is on the table that day.

The only real solution is to actively work against these members in the primaries and replace them with decent people.

[DearAbby]

60. I am thinking "TERM LIMITS"

keeping a supply of fresh blood fresh ideas, no one gets cushy in the job.

[FiveGoodMen]

74. There wouldn't be term limits on the string pullers behind the scenes.

They'd just have a bunch of naive folks to hog tie. People who hadn't been around long enough to recognize the traps they were walking into.

[JHB]

182. That's been my take on Term Limits too...

With term limits, elected officeholders answerable to the voters would come and go, so all the institutional memory and expertise on How To Get Things Done would reside in the cadre of staffers who would make up Permanent Washington. That would move power even further away from voters and closer to highest bidders.

Wrong direction.

[leftofthedial]

57. there is really only one party

the capitalist-corporate-oligarch party.

they split into two "teams" and scrimmage for our amusement, but it's really only one team.

[Individualist]

58. You need to do some research on DLC's agenda

You'll find answers to all your questions there.

[Occam Bandage]

59. 1. "Tyranny" and "treason" are not occurring. Your lack of perspective is not their problem.

2. Worldwide food prices are skyrocketing because of energy prices, as well as a growing population and a string of droughts. Worldwide energy prices are skyrocketing in part because of rising demand and stagnant supply, and in part because of speculators who have noticed the ever-worsening supply/demand ratios. Neither will be stopped by a legislative act by the American federal government.

3. In the 110th Congress, the Democrats have, on average, voted against the Republicans more than any Congress in the last fifty years. We lose so often because the Republicans are a more cohesive bloc than we are, and because we only have 51 Senators (or 50+Lieberman.) If only one Senators breaks from the pack, Cheney casts the deciding vote. The situation is made even worse by the veto pen and the fact that the Republicans have launched more filibusters than any Senate in American history.

4. The nation has been "falling apart at the seams" for oh, about 200 years now. Everything looks worse when you're in it.

[Greyhound]

61. Oops.

[Two Americas]

108. okey dokey

Silly me to be so alarmed. What was I thinking?

[Greyhound]

62. Self evident. n/t

[CrispyQ]

63. You have to stop thinking in terms of democrat/republican.

This is class war - the rich vs the rest of us. Since our political system is set up to favor the rich, they are always in power setting the agenda.

Many people think the repubs have something on Pelosi & that's why she's capitulated on 'draining the swamp.' Personally, I think they threatened to challenge her office with a very well financed 'democrat' if she didn't play nice. Pelosi realies that it's better to be second in line at the trough than not in line at all.

The two party system is an illusion.

[Lucky 13]

64. The Democratic Party IS complicit. What further evidence do we need?

Maybe except for Leahy, Feingold, Kennedy, Kucinich, Dodd, and a few others...

Except for very small handful of hearty Patriots, they are all in on it. The last few weeks has exposed my once beloved Democratic Party for what they are: complicit, traitorous liars.

We were told that if we wanted things to change then we must work to take back Congress in 2006. Well we answered the call and did just that. We told ourselves that if we could just get a Democratic majority, if we could just get the worst of the worst out of office, our freedoms would be protected, the administration would be reigned in, and hopefully, one day, if the opportunity presented itself, we could hold accountable the perpetrators of war crimes and crimes against our Constitution.

But we were LIED to by the Democratic Party. LIED TO.

They never had any intention of doing anything about anything. They were never going to fight the Republican machine. And it's not that they are the limp-wristed, spineless, ineffectual, impotent, douche bags the Republicans always tell us they are. These Democrats are doing this openly. In the face of very vocal members of their constituency. Against the very oaths they took to protect the Constitution and our freedoms. They aren't doing this because they're spineless. They're doing this with bravado. With guts. With balls. Willingly. Bravely. Against the will of their constituency.

And it's bad enough that they pass bill after bill compromising our rights and freedoms, but now they are working to ensure that NO ONE, EVER, no matter who takes office in any position, will ever be able to hold these destroyers of the Constitution accountable for their crimes.

And who's going to stop them? You? Me? How? By voting them out of office? For who? The Republicans? That's worse! A third party? That's next to impossible.

All of our calls, emails and letters are and will continue to be ignored. All of our protests will be buried by the media and ignored by our representatives.

THEY DO NOT CARE WHAT THEIR CONSTITUENTS OR THE AMERICAN PUBLIC WANTS. They have us over a barrel. They know it. We know it. And no one is trying to hide it any longer.

If change is truly going to happen, it's not going to come from our PATHETIC democratic party or even Barack Obama. I believe there is now only one way: Revolution.

And sadly, American are so disaffected and ambivalent about everything, I don't think that will ever happen.

I don't know what to do from here. I don't know where to go. I don't know who's left to appeal to. I'm starting to loathe our party. I wonder if I should even be a part of this board any more.

[Jackilope]

84. Disenfranchised and Dismayed

No one should have to beg their elected officials to stand up for the Constitution. No one should watch telecoms donate and buy off elected officials. I watched that today through my own watery eyes. I literally tracked down my Sen. during a 4th of July Parade to BEG him to support the Feingold/Dodd amendment and to please NOT grant immunity to telecoms ... figuring hearing this begging and pleading from a person vs an e-mail in might make a difference. It didn't. When fund raising calls and e-mails come in they'll hear I absolutely cannot bring myself to vote for officials so willing to dispose of the Fourth Amendment.

I'm heartbroken and feel betrayed by the collective Democratic Party Cave In. I don't feel like this is my party anymore. Back in 1972, even Republicans were awakening and ready to impeach Nixon for illegally wiretapping the Democrats. NOW we've got Bush Admin. illegally -- blatant and in your face illegally wiretapping the whole country and with the Republican and Democratic blessing and enabling.

I'll be donating to PACS, such as Blue America, ACLU. etc. so that at least in other states better Democrats get elected, and deep down hold Democratic ideals, but am considering switching registration from D to I, even though I have doubts that it even matters.

[Andrea]

154. Very well said

We should absolutely not have to beg for certain inalienable rights.

They will not get another penny from me. They will not get another hour of volunteer work. It's all going to the ACLU.


Oh, and, Welcome to DU!

[Lifetimedem]

66. I think it is a matter of

"you scratch my back I'll scratch yours"

[rhett o rick]

67. There are millions of Americans that follow the lead of the corp-media. They know something is

wrong but want to blame the gays, Muslims, Iran, illegal immigrants, you name it. They are looking for an easy out. They certainly don't want to buckle up and pay the price to fix this country. Until more people in the country are demanding "change" our government is not going to change.

[Philosoraptor]

69. ..................

[earth mom]

71. The dems are complicit. They are playing politics like it's some game of Survivor

You know, "Outwit, Outlast, Outplay" - it's ALL about how they're playing the "game" rather than about doing the right thing or what's best for anyone BUT themselves.

Not only that but as Pelosi herself said, they think of themselves as our "LEADERS" not as the "ELECTED OFFICIALS" that they really are.

You know, elected officials who were actually supposed to REPRESENT THE PEOPLE!!!

Sorry, but both the U.S. and The Constitution are stick a fork in it, DONE. :argh:


p.s. I like you when you are disruptive and caustic. :hi:

[Raster]

72. Two words: collaborators and accomplices.

[BeHereNow]

75. Sometimes, the question IS the answer... K&R

That you even need to ask reveals everything
you seek to understand.
Eh?
BHN

[redqueen]

76. "the Democrats" are not a homogenous entity. MOST are in on it, though, yes.

The neo-cons have taken over the republican party.

The neo-libs are nearly done taking over ours.

[katty]

77. Bingo - 'in plain sight' ! 1 party system

[Lucky 13]

123. It's terrifying in it's blantantness.

:scared:

[Vidar]

78. Sadly because of the cost of political campaigns, most politicans above

the congressional level--unless they're independently wealthy--wind up selling out to the rich bastards that really rule the country.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

80. I blame the media for much of what has gone wrong . It's a complete sham.

[Lucky 13]

125. Agreed.

They're all in on it.

[indepat]

81. Those in cahoots with the enemies of America are, in fact, the enemies of America:

this bill, imo, will be a tell-tell sign of the degree of corruption, cowardice, venality, and mendacity of the Congress. :D

[asteroid2003QQ47]

82. Tread VERY lightly, Philosoraptor. The last guy to post...

questions of this nature got whacked.

RIP John the Baathist

------------------------------------------------------------------------
“Today is my fifty-fifth birthday, and the feeling that despite all the changes so little has changed really torments me. Turn on a television and there’s the president, giving hypocrisy a bad name, and this is normal. Always has been in my lifetime. Turn on the TV when I was fifteen and there’s the president, some kind of perverse fount of lies. That was when I started to get it and not get over it. If I’d been born ten years earlier, it would have started with Ike instead of LBJ.”

Or it could have started earlier, with Truman. “From one president to another,” Solomon writes, “one commander in chief to another: …they’ve all been ready to demolish us in an instant. That fact, alone, from Harry S. Truman to George W. Bush and whoever comes next, is so ghastly that we can’t really look at it….”
--Norman Solomon, “Made Love, Got War: Close Encounters with America's Warfare State” (July 7, 2006)

[femrap]

83. The Dems are totally

COMPLICIT. There's maybe 25% of them who try to fight the good fight, but then they remember what happened to Wellstone and Carnahan (running for Gov. against Ashcroft in MO) and who was sent anthrax and then get second thoughts.

[deaniac21]

85. The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind.

[frog92969]

86. Yes

They are.

[Zorra]

87. Maybe we're electing too many wealthy people that are primarily interested

in serving the interests of their class. Maybe we need to start electing more regular folks like Dennis Kucinich - people that know what it's like to struggle and who actually give a shit about other people's problems and protecting the Constitution from the predations of the self-interested economically elite.

Congress Has Wealth to Weather Economic Downturn
Published by Communications on March 13, 2008 5:40 PM | Permalink

As Americans worry about their own finances, their elected representatives in Washington—with a collective net worth of $3.6 billion—are mostly in good shape to withstand a recession.

WASHINGTON—Economists say the United States may be in a recession, but the personal finances of members of Congress suggest they will be able to weather the storm far better than most Americans, according to a new analysis of three years of lawmakers' personal financial reports by the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics.

U.S. senators had a median net worth of approximately $1.7 million in 2006, the most recent year for which their financial data is available, and 58 percent of the Senate's members could be considered millionaires. In the House of Representatives, the median net worth was about $675,000, with 44 percent of members having net worths estimated to be at least $1 million. By contrast, only about 1 percent of all American adults had a net worth greater than $1 million around the same time.1

Before the American economy showed signs last year of slowing down, lawmakers had enjoyed an extraordinary run in their personal investments and other finances. Members of Congress, who are now paid about $169,000 annually, saw their net worths soar 84 percent from 2004 to 2006, on average.

"Like a lot of Americans, as the economy did well, Congress did well—but lawmakers did especially well," said Sheila Krumholz, executive director of the Center for Responsive Politics. "Now that the nation's economic road is turning rougher, members of Congress have a far more comfortable cushion than most Americans have to ride it out. If their constituents experience economic hardships, policymakers, who are in a position to help boost the economy, generally won't feel the same pain."

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/03/congress-has-wealth-to-weather.htm

[proReality]

88. They are the enemies of America! n/t

[Rockholm]

89. Obviously.

[Auggie]

90. Not all of them. But the ones calling the shots are. Just look at who and what

are giving them money.

[Grinchie]

91. Nothing has been done because Corporations have complete control of their drones

It all boils down to Power and Money.

Those with the Power, use the fear of losing money on these weak livered, complicit enablers that continue to do nothing.

This is the worst that I've seen in my entire life, and I'm afraid it signals the end of our Civilization. When ethics disappears, science and education is constantly attacked and challenged despite hundreds of years of proof, and usury and enslavement to debt enables the control of entire countries, then we are lost.

When the environment is seen as just another sheet of paper to scribble on, instead of the rare treasure that it is, we are lost.

When we have Sock Puppets in the Government, that Government is on it's way down. Bush/Caligula, they are all the same.

Throw in a nice worldwide depression, throw in some anarchy, and the powerful will follow the aftermath and grab even more wealth that they did not earn. Forget about the little people.

The Powerful care nothing about your life, they care only about your property.

[Fox Mulder]

92. My dad thinks so.

And he's been a lifelong Democrat.

[RaleighNCDUer]

93. DLC.

That says it all.

[FreepFryer]

95. There is a reason why Bush began wiretapping upon taking office. Right where Nixon left off.

[mike_c]

98. certainly the dem leadership is complicit in most neocon objectives....

I think many congressional dems are quite happy to see the neocon agenda advanced, perhaps even a majority.

[jeff30997]

100. Money,money,money....

Money!!!

Money,money,money....

[Catherina]

101. Two teams. Same Blueprint, same goal. n/t

[Kermitt Gribble]

102. No doubt in my mind most of them are in on it.

We need to tear the whole govt down and start over - to bad that will never be allowed to happen.

[Blue Diadem]

112. Same questions here

DH and I talk about it quite a bit with all the same questions you have and all the same suspicions.

[ElboRuum]

114. Simple...

Of course they are. You sound surprised.

[Blarch]

117. The simple answer...

There is only one political party in the USA , The Money Party.

The Money Party has two wings ..the Dems and Repubs. The Money Party is ALWAYS in power, and the Money party ALWAYS has it's back covered.

[Harmonicaman]

119. Why don't the Dems do anything - simple

You are no doubt, all familiar with the saying about absolute power.

Well after Bush goes -failing some catastrophy, real or engineered that suspends the election - the Dems will find themselves in power - with all these shiny new powers at their disposal.

Absolute Power ?

Absolutely!!

[asteroid2003QQ47]

126. The system works! Why change it?

"The Uses of Poverty: The Poor Pay All"

HERBERT J. GANS

Twelfth, the poor facilitate and stabilize the American political process. Because they vote and participate in politics less than other groups, the political system is often free to ignore them. Moreover, since they can rarely support Republicans, they often provide the Democrats with a captive constituency that has no other place to go. As a result, the Democrats can count on their votes, and be more responsive to voters—for example, the white working class—who might otherwise switch to the Republicans.

http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/che725/teaching/poorpayall.htm

------------------------------------------------------------
Eighth, poverty helps to guarantee the status of those who are not poor. In every hierarchical society someone has to be at the bottom; but in American society, in which social mobility is an important goal for many and people need to know where they stand, the poor function as a reliable and relatively permanent measuring rod for status comparisons. This is particularly true for the working class, whose politics is influenced by the need to maintain status distinctions between themselves and the poor, much as the aristocracy must find ways of distinguishing itself from the nouveaux riches.

[T.Ruth2power]

135. There it is folks

In one sentence.

All else is shadow boxing.

K&R

[postman07]

122. read-in

the problem is that people like Nancy Pelosi were "read-in" to alot of what they are doing. So there are alot of Dems out there that can be held acountable as well. Now they have to stop voting for truth or they can be brought up on charges.

[robertpaulsen]

124. Yes. I would blame AIPAC.

But that might be too disruptive or too caustic. ;)

[Lucky 13]

127. Error: You've already recommended that thread.

[file83]

150. Error: You've already recommended a revolution.

Please hang up and try again, or call your congressman for assistance.

This country is gone.

[WinkyDink]

128. Follow the money.

[AmyCamus]

130. Our nominee says No to impeachment. Move on and stop embarassing him.

Support our nominee, please.

[The Gunslinger]

131. Unfortunately, they all seem to serve the same masters

The Corporation. Sure we will be a little better off with a Democrat in office, but don't expect any real "change".

[zonmoy]

132. Fraid so.

democracy got killed in the mid 1800's when corporations were declared people.

Perhaps it is time to resurrect my idea of putting signs saying abandon all hope ye who enter here at every possible place on the borders. not to mention on every street corner.

[Earth_First]

133. Why?

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[rosesaylavee]

138. Yes.

Link to who is benefiting from the telecom immunity: http://www.maplight.org/FISA_June08

[crickets]

140. You answered your first question

when you also has to ask yourself all of the ones that followed.

Not every one of them, no, but more than enough of them are.

[wurzel]

141. Yes. The party has moved well to the right.

Basically the Democratic Party just gives us lip service. Where else can we go? The only real difference is that things get worse more slowly under the Democrats.

[theFrankFactor]

142. There Are No Excuses...

The evidence is solid. The Democratic party is little more than the Washington Generals to the Republican's Harlem Globe Trotters. They play good-cop bad-cop. If anyone has to explain to you the litany of reasons more serious action should have and could have been taken by our party over the last seven years you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.

If you want to see what a minority that gives a fuck looks like- watch the fucking Republicans. We are a disgrace. I use the Democratic party because I have to, plain and simple. Outside of that they serve no purpose. They've promised not to cum in my mouth so many times and I've ended up drinking so much of their gizz that I'm allergic to it now. I see the pattern. I'm not going to play the battered wife part anymore. They can blow ME! All Democrats in congress are suspect save a handfull.

Spare me the smoke and sunshine enemas.

Want to see what I think of this bunch of losers? Watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cPI-bFx-D0

[theFrankFactor]

143. PS Make No Mistake...

I'm a Liberal FIRST- party comes second, or maybe last in this case. That's what really chaps my nuts, I actually believe in Liberal principals and ideology. Consequently, I have no where to turn for support. Take a good hard look at Pelosi and Reid. If you don't what to puke you're not plugged in, no one's home.

[zeemike]

147. I don't think we are in Kansas anymore Toto n/t

[onehandle]

148. I don't know but THEY'RE RIGHT BEHIND YOU!

Made you look.

[jgraz]

156. What's going on with OUR party? To start with, it never was "OUR" party

"WE" don't have a party. "THEY" have two. THAT's the problem.

[Swamp Rat]

159. Why do you hate America?

:D




:hi:

[Baby Snooks]

160. The Republicrats...

This country has been hijacked by "neo-con artists" who have used both party's to establish their own party. The Repubicrat Party.

They have taken over the Republican Party and appear to be taking over the Democratic Party as well. The Republicrats do not serve the American people. They serve themselves. And the corporations. "Of the corporation, by the corporation, for the corporation."

Hope everyone finally realizes that this November. And starts getting rid of the Republicrats. Starting with Nancy Pelosi.

[inna]

162. not all Dems are sellouts/enablers (see the list below...)

THE 28 Senators with GUTS and INTEGRITY:


Akaka
Biden
Bingaman
Boxer
Brown
Byrd
Cantwell
Cardin
Clinton
Dodd
Dorgan
Durbin
Feingold
Harkin
Kerry
Klobuchar
Lautenburg
Leahy
Levin
Menendez
Murray
Reed
Reid
Sanders
Schumer
Stabenow
Tester
Wyden

[wundermaus]

165. The system of checks and balances is fatally infected...

and the cancer of international corporatism has metastasized. The corruption of bribery and cronyism so thoroughly permeates all levels of our government that even with the few righteous members remaining, they are simply overwhelmed. The decline and destruction of the Democratic Ideals of American is complete and it came with a wink and a nod. We were not defeated from attacks by invaders, we were consumed from within by the insatiable hunger of greed and the rot indifference.

[BayjanDem]

169. I sometimes wonder

if we're being governed by some type of secret oligarchy. I'm not a conspiracy nut, but 911, the reasons for invading Iraq, FISA, oil prices, Bush not being impeached. Something much bigger is going on here. These people have an agenda and everyone (including the next President) has to be on board.

[Sonexdd]

173. Yes

Some would prefer to believe it's all Bush Fault, but it goes much higher than that, and Obama is part of this scam. The two party system is a joke, it's there to give us the illusion that we have a choice, while the real rulers do their business in secret. All of the democratic and republican nominated to be presidential candidates have attended Bilderberg conferences for the past 40 years. How come we never hear about the Bilderberg from the mainstream media, not a word...

[carnie_sf]

171. Thomas Jefferson

was of the opinion that we would need another revolution about every generation. It's high time don't you think?

[greyghost]

174. It's now officially past time.

[Lilith Velkor]

175. Yyyup. n/t

[Pooka Fey]

176. We have relieved you of the burden of having to choose. You may thank us now. nt

[EV_Ares]

177. We need a Third Independent Party. I mean hell, look at Mark Penn and Karen Hughes

hooking up together. She worked for Cheney, he worked for Hillary. Have you ever thought about how the political campaign is year round anymore, it is just ongoing. You have the candidates, you have the political consultants, the corporate advertisers, the corporate media, you have the consultant makeover people to groom whoever the candidate is for what he/she is to say, dress or do. In other words, this is big, big money, no matter which party you are in, democrat or republican. These people live well, nice work with huge long vacations, a support staff for doing everything for them, they are celebrity status. It doesn't matter anymore, they all love their rich lifestyles and will do what they do to protect it.

In other words I don't think they are cahoots on anything, it is just that the democratic party powers that be and the republican party powers that be are just going to protect their turf and throw us enough cake and entrench themselves enough so they can't be shaken out.

[Chimichurri]

179. what more evidence do you need? Bush could not have invaded Iraq

without the help of the democrats. This applies to the Patriot Act as well. Why is it so difficult for us to accept that the dems are complicit in the dismantling of this country?

[Broadslidin]

183. Obviously, the Founding Feudal Fathers 'two party' Scheme is working as planned.

:nuke: :hide: :nuke:

[spanone]

188. votes speak louder than words...yes

[Dogtown]

191. Cahooters

the lot of them.

[Redstone]

197. Because, in the immortal words of Les McCann:

"We're chicken feathers all, without one gut."

Any other country had an election as blatantly stolen as ours was in 2000, there would have been blood running in the gutters.

But we just sat here and took it. And yes, I'm personally to blame as much as anyone else.

Redstone

[Imagevision]

199. Why does Nancy Pelosi say NO to not serving Rove a subpeona to appear before congress to answer

questions?

[Unrepentant Fenian]

201. That;s what I was wondering too.